Thoughts_DreamsNeomorphMember1656 XPNov-22-2022 11:53 AM
I like that it'll be new characters in the TV-show by Noah Hawley. As long as they are well-written I'm all for it. Hopefully it will be worth the wait, it's good that they don't rush it.
As far as Ridley goes as producer, I hope that he won't be able to affect the story, so we'll get another android screw-up. Hopefully he'll have a hand in it looking good.
“Ridley Scott may never finish his prequel-story, but Prometheus and Alien: Covenant are both moments of brilliant inspiration.”
Brilliant? That's to exaggerate, I think. There are both good and bad things in them. Considering the good and really bad, I got to give them both a 2 out of 5. Honestly, there are things that can be taken from there, like the Engineers and the black goo. Unfortunately, there is too much bad there, so maybe it's for the best to leave them for dead.
XenotarisPraetorianMember4035 XPNov-22-2022 4:16 PM
Prepare to be disappointed with this TV show, the main character might be a Cyborg: a Human-Synthetic(Android) hybrid
BigDaveDeaconMember10358 XPNov-23-2022 7:05 AM
I know its been a LONG WAIT with NOT a LOT for us to SINK our Teeth into in Regards to the Franchise, Especially with any MOVIE or TV SERIES. This is due to a Number of Factors which include the Disappointment of Alien Covenant both Box Office but also Critically, the Disney Take Over and COVID.
We did have in the works a TV Series and a Movie but all had been Quite on the Later. It seems that Production/Filming on both Projects will take place Next Year which means that 2024 could see the Release of the TV Series and Movie for us to SINK our Teeth into..... its a Question of are these going to CONNECT to each other?
In the Meantime we do have things related to ALIEN that we can Watch, Read and Play not Forgetting the Role Playing Board Game etc.
BigDaveDeaconMember10358 XPNov-23-2022 7:13 AM
"so we'll get another android screw-up"
As Xenotaris has said... i think Thoughts_Dreams that the TV Series will Focus on Elements that we saw in Blade Runner. It seemed that RS Plan was to Explore more about A.I but in a way that gets us to look that A.I in his Opinion does-not mean ROBOTS as per say. He saw the Replicants as A.I and i am sure he would have indicated the Engineers in Prometheus are A.I as in terms of Engineer versions of Replicants.... it would have been likely that David would have Created his OWN like META-HUMANS too...
Noahs TV Series seems to be looking at Similar, as in Artificially Engineered Humanoids, but it will also BRING IN the Xenomorph which will then get a LOT of Focus... we can only WAIT and see what it brings.
Thoughts_DreamsNeomorphMember1656 XPNov-25-2022 4:59 AM
Xenotaris: It depends on how the character is written and executed and how the human characters are done. There got to be a balance, otherwise we'll get the same disappointment like we got with the prequels. Just because one of the main-characters is an android doesn't mean that it'll be bad, there are other things that matter too.
Thoughts_DreamsNeomorphMember1656 XPNov-25-2022 5:01 AM
BD: “It seemed that RS Plan was to Explore more about A.I but in a way that gets us to look that A.I in his Opinion does-not mean ROBOTS as per say. He saw the Replicants as A.I and i am sure he would have indicated the Engineers in Prometheus are A.I as in terms of Engineer versions of Replicants.... it would have been likely that David would have Created his OWN like META-HUMANS too…”
That seems to be too much like Raised By Wolves. As far as I can tell, the reviews of it haven't been that good. I've read about it, and it seems to be like with the prequels, good ideas but flawed execution. With Ridley involved, it seems like this would be the result… again.
“it would have been likely that David would have Created his OWN like META-HUMANS too…”
It would give too much importance to David, and we would get another Alien Covenant. It would be too much flag-waving to David… again. The type of humans that would have been created could be in it, but reduce the role of David so even if he created them he should be out of the movie after that. At least David shouldn't be the focus. Looking at Raised By Wolves, I fear that it would maybe have been mainly about Walter and David… again and we would have another disappointment. I'm afraid that this is what will happen to the TV-show too.
As far as bringing in the Xeno, that doesn't need to be the case to make it a good show. They can have new monsters and the Engineers, it depends on how it's executed. Well, a follow-up to Covenant seems very unlikely, but that is a good thing if you ask me. Some people would like to see a follow-up, but then the alien-fandom is a divided thing. I might disagree with a lot of prequel-ists, but I try to not act like I'm better than them. Maybe I went off-topic here?
You mention the Xenomorph, I think that they can have new monsters related to the Xeno but have some new things. I wouldn't mind it being Xeno-less, but have some cousins, or maybe further related... you get the idea.
My main worry is that it'll be too much about androids and that there will be weak human characters, which is what we got with the prequels. Perhaps it's for the best if Scott would stay away?
Thoughts_DreamsNeomorphMember1656 XPNov-25-2022 5:04 AM
Jonesy: I like the TED-talk, since it explains his motivations and shows that he's been interested in it for a long time. They should have had some of that in Prometheus, so it doesn't become something like he said. “Through out my life I’ve pondered why we are here” I think that is some of the lines by Weyland in Prometheus. By having something from the TED-talk you show a younger Weyland, which backs up what he says as an older person.
BigDaveDeaconMember10358 XPNov-25-2022 8:12 AM
I think some of the Foundations and Ideas in the Prequels where Interesting with Potential but they were Executed a bit Poor and the Character Depth was not that Strong.... but only the First 3 Movies had that.... i mean who Cared about the Alien Resurrection Characters?
The other Issue is that i dont think MANY of the Fanbase would want to see the Xenomorph relegated to a Lesser Role... The Ideas that RS had are simply to BIG and BOLD for a lot of the Fans who would prefer something more SIMPLE and POPCORN.
But this is what SELLS.... its what has done the MARVEL FRANCHISE well and i think this is what maybe we shall see with the ALIEN FRANCHISE.
I dont think we would get to see the Engineers again... maybe we will Discover like Abandoned Ships or Architecture of theirs but i dont think we will see a ALIVE version of them again.
I think that the A.I will play a Role... we will see Synthetics, both Robotic and Organic, and i think it will be Teased of a Great Threat they could Pose, i dont see this ASPECT ever going away.... but i dont think it will STEAL the Lime-Light like David did with the Prequels.
Regarding the TED TALK a lot of this was the SET UP for Weyland and his Ambition to Create Life and Immortal Life, it would have gone HAND in HAND that his Ambition would go as FAR as his own Quest for IMMORTALITY which lead to his Downfall on LV-223. I think this Shadows the Engineers own Quest for IMMORTALITY too that lead to their Down Fall too.
His GOAL and ways that this could Potentially be Obtained in Reality would lead to a Situation of the RICH and Privileged to have such Reward while then we have the Problem of TOO MANY like Normal Humans living Longer... while also the ADVENT of more Advance A.I that becomes Self Aware would become a Massive Risk to Humanity.
Both of these Potentials coming even Regardless of EVER going to LV-223/426, but what we got was going to these Places in Search of the First Thing (Immortality) leads to the Chaos caused by the Second Thing (A.I)
These things seem to be something the TV Series will touch upon.... but who knows what the MOVIE will Focus on... i have Discussed this in the Thread about the Movie.
XenotarisPraetorianMember4035 XPNov-26-2022 11:53 PM
Well that is a one eighty, I thought you would despised the main character being an android because they aren't human?
XenotarisPraetorianMember4035 XPNov-26-2022 11:57 PM
Also another point, xenomorph relatives are essentially still xenomorphs with a different shape.
Like Big Dave said I don't think the Engineers are going to make an appearance in the newer movies.
Also what do you have in mind for a new creature to replace the xenomorphs and its relatives?
Thoughts_DreamsNeomorphMember1656 XPNov-27-2022 7:04 AM
Xenotaris: I can imagine it being like C3PO in Star Wars, he had an important role in translating things and in that way helped the rest. I think that something similar could be used in Alien, as far as the androids go. The androids can be used in important parts but not be what it's about, just like C3PO was of importance but not The story in Star Wars.
About the relatives still being Xenomorphs I disagree. It's like birds, you have for example Owl, Humming-birds, Canada-Goose, and so on. You could have the same with the Xenos, but to call each-one a Xeno just because they are related is a bit of a stretch I think.
Yeah, I doubt that the Engineers will be in the new movies, unfortunately. My worries are that we'll get a lot of the same old, but well-done characters can make up for a lot of that. I'm not interested in seeing the monster from 1979 again.
Thoughts_DreamsNeomorphMember1656 XPNov-27-2022 7:07 AM
Oh, I honestly believe that many of the ideas in Prometheus especially were very interesting. Unfortunately, the way they were handled were clumsy. Yeah, only the first three had that character development, but many of the cut scenes would have improved that. They cut character-development for run-time, which to me is a no-no. If you have lame characters, you have a lame movie, no amount of interesting ideas can save that. AR was cartoonish
“The other Issue is that i dont think MANY of the Fanbase would want to see the Xenomorph relegated to a Lesser Role... The Ideas that RS had are simply to BIG and BOLD for a lot of the Fans who would prefer something more SIMPLE and POPCORN.”
It depends on the execution, you can make it a bit different and as far as I know many liked the Engineers. You have people that are traditional Xeno-ists, but I also think that there are people that would like to see expanded things, but probably not see it taken over by a disappointed android (that is where I stand). Some people like to see new ideas, but many got annoyed by the prequels being taken over by an android. To me that's a bigger problem, but I put that on Scott and Fox. Big and bold ideas? Many might found them interesting, but unfortunately the execution was poor, and it was too much about David. My point is that the fans are not to blame, but rather the execution and the focus of the movie.
They can have androids (say like David and Bishop) and cyborgs (let's take Robocop as an example), but they shouldn't be what the movie is about, because that's lame. Make them interesting and important to the story, but don't let them take over everything, like what happened in the prequels.
XenotarisPraetorianMember4035 XPNov-27-2022 1:04 PM
Yes but Owls, Canadian Geese, and Humming Birds are more diverse than deacons and neomorphs. The xenomorph has a wide variety of forms based on what host they burst from.
But you haven't answered my last questioned, what should the new "xenomorph" replacement should look and operate like because so far the xenomorph relatives operate just like a xenomorph with some minor differences. If you want a replacement beast it should contrast the xenomorph in all aspects.
BigDaveDeaconMember10358 XPNov-28-2022 8:25 AM
In regards to my Comment "The Ideas that RS had are simply to BIG and BOLD for a lot of the Fans who would prefer something more SIMPLE and POPCORN"
I did a Reply on this on this Topic HERE
I think that YES it would have been NICE to see more of the Engineers, but they was becoming a Distraction from the Xenomorph... you would STRUGGLE to make a Movie that would have Xenomorphs, and Engineers as well as Human Characters, PLUS then to Expand on the Character of David who RS saw as the Focus... we would have had to GIVE like David a Lesser Role.... also you would NOT be able to JUGGLE the Engineers and Xenomorphs if you was to EXPLORE more of the Engineers.
Beyond the CORE of them just as Military Types who are Intend on using the Xenomorph to Rule the Galaxy.... Sacrificing the Depth to WHY and more so Expanding what else to the Engineers do other than FLY those BOMBERS.
So maybe STICKING to the Basics and Core is BEST....
But you will HIT a WALL down the Line with the Limitations... the Predators are another Example...
COOL ALIEN RACE... they Look ACE, they have Cool Tech and Weapons.. but the CORE we have seen is they go to Worlds to HUNT... take Trophies and then GET their ASSES out of DODGE!
What else do they DO... is their Hunting their ONLY Agenda? Whats the Home-world like? Have they Many Worlds, what about History and Religion, and are they at CONFLICT with anyone?
You could Expand these..... but it could be a case of would this DISTRACT from the CORE of what we have seen in the Franchise... maybe could lead to what we had with the Prequels... by trying to DIG DEEPER into the Space Jockey beyond the Basics.
As FAR as to Replace the Xenomorph (Xenotaris) i think you could do so, but then you may UPSET some Fans if you STEER AWAY from the Xenomorph Aesthetic too much... so you have to be Careful.
For me i think the Xenomorph has a Limited Life-Span (Shelf Life) before it becomes Repetitive but for some Fans this is OK if you make them more Comic Like in Terms of Evolve them to like we seen in Video Games. But while i say that and it may APPLY to myself... the Xenomorph for Many has a Great Shelf Life i mean it SELLS look at the Many Toys, Comics and Games... i think it needs to be Changed a BIT... which the Comics and Games have tried.
I am just NOT sure it would WORK as Well as Far as Longevity on the Big Screen or TV Show... because then we are going like Starship Troopers where we have to WATCH as Mankind Struggles against a ever EVOLVING HORDE of ALIENS and its WHAT can Humanity do to Survive.
Can you PULL this OFF for like 3 more Movies or more? Maybe NOT if its ALIENS vs HUMANS.
Can you PULL it off for like more than 3 Seasons of TV Show? If i USE say the WALKING DEAD as a Example.... having 11 Seasons where Humans are just trying to Escape from Zombies would NOT work.....
Its the Human Aspect that makes it Work, its when you look at WHAT LENGTHS that other Humans would GO against their OWN KIND to Survive... those who SELFISHLY take Advantage of the Situation (Zombie Apocalypse).
And so the ALIEN Franchise has to look at this.... WHAT can Humans Gain from the Xenomorph..... this has NOT been Explored in Depth because every TIME we see the Humans try and Obtain the Xemomorph before they can Experiment in Depth on them..... they Basically get DONE IN by the Xenomorph.
Its a Case of Humans become the Bigger Threat to ourselves... as Ripley had said when she said you DONT see them (Xenomorphs) Screwing Each other over. Ridley Scott was attempting to look at the Threat of Humanity being just Cause for the Engineers to Create a Horrific Pest Control.... also looking into Creating A.I that becomes Sentient like Humans and HOW BIG a Threat this was.
So i think you CAN go and Change the Xenomorph but if you do it too much or eventually you give something NEW were the Xenomorph is NO-MORE then you will have some Fans who will NOT be Happy.... but at the same Time you cant keep going on the Route like Starship Troopers.... you have to look at WHAT and WHY the Humans or A.I would USE the Xenomorph.
There HOWEVER...is NO such thing as ONE FAN TYPE... we all have likes and Dislikes and its a Case of trying to CATER for them... which is HARD and its were they DISNEY have to Cater for the Majority.
The TASK is to Figure out as to WHAT the Majority would want. And so sticking to the BASICS and CORE is the SAFE BET... its a Case of HOW MUCH of a Shelf Life as FAR as TV and Movies does this have?
Time will TELL i suppose.