This has been discussed to death, but I don't recall anyone commenting on where a movie would continue after sitting down and watching all theatrical movies from Prometheus to Resurrection after a marathon watch (Director's cuts and Special Editions). I have never had time to do it. After going through it from recollection, it seems that Weyland/Yutani is involved in every movie and maybe its sinister agenda might be a fresh way to go.
Who has actually sat down and watched the series top to bottom in the proper order uninterrupted? What do you think?
"After going through it from recollection, it seems that Weyland/Yutani is involved in every movie and maybe its sinister agenda might be a fresh way to go." - not quite true as by Resurrection it was bought up by Walmart. And there was no agenda in Alien Covenant. But I wonder if Walmart would sell Xeno-Cola (we already have made food additives from the beaver's anal gland), i think it would be very fizzy.
But I doubt that putting that to the forefront will be very successful.
Good point- I forgot Walmart bought out WY lol. Although extremely diluted xeno blood in soda or spirits is an entertaining thought.
I wouldn’t let facts get in the way of a good story. I mean, if we’re sticking to what actually happened on screen, we’re lumbered with Predators harvesting Alien Queens on Earth going back thousands of years (AVP). Disclosure and guilty pleasure: I do like that movie.
The Company should not have met a similar fate to Newt and Hicks. Such a waste of something that almost amounts to a character in itself.
With “over 400 surveyed worlds” in the time of Aliens, there is plenty of scope for setting stories on far-flung reaches of the Galaxy where WY’s evil influence reigns supreme.
I enjoy AVP and Resurrection. They are great popcorn flicks and that is why I didn't take the Walmart reference seriously- I thought it was just mor being jaded and cynical like the general tone of the characters were.
hox brings up a good point referencing from Aliens that 400 worlds were surveyed by WY. I could imagine Cameron making a movie based off that just like Scott made a movie based on the SJ. Same rationale: Camron: "No one ever picked up the reference about those other worlds and that's why I am making Aliens 1.5."
When looking back at the Franchise (i will NOT inc the AVP Movies) then i think for the Most Part all we can do is mainly Speculate. Now some of that can be Shaped Different depending on WHICH versions we take into account.
Each Movie has some Conflicts and Bugs there are some Differences Particularly when we Connect the Prequels to ALIEN but then we have discussed things such as the Derelict vs Juggernaught, Engineer vs Space Jockey, the Cave vs Cargo Hold and the Davids Xenomorph vs Alien Xenomorphs... these have been covered a LOT.
So in Context to your Post DK then i would agree the Weyland-Yutani Company have played a HUGE Role, they are a KEY element, and something that IF we got any Conclusion then maybe we could have seen WHY they became to Central.
Ripley also played a KEY Role in the First 4 Movies, because as Ignorantguy pointed out in Alien Resurrection we see that W-Y had been brought out by Walmart but none the LESS the Agenda of some Human Scientists/Company wishing to Obtain a Xenomorph is still at play... Different Company, but Similar Agenda.
Ripley playing the Main Role, but she has NO bearing on the Prequels she was just the Human Heroine Character to overcome the Xenomorph Threat.
Or Xenomorph being what you would ASSUME is the Main Focus of the Franchise, but they are just the ALIEN THREAT that the Humans must overcome...
so we have 6 Movies, and 4 of them Feature Ripley, 5 of them Feature the Weyland-Yutani Company in some Form (Weyland for Prometheus), 5 of them Feature the Xenomorph, we have 3 of them that is about the W-Y Company trying to Obtain the Xenomorph
What ALL of the Movies have is A.I/Androids and when i look at all the Movies i do see a Potential Connection to the A.I playing a Large Role. With Aliens and Alien 3 you could argue that Bishop was Different as he had NO kind of Nefarious Agenda, and Michael Bishop was Human.
But when trying to ADD how things can Connect from Movie to Movie, then Bishop did seem to know or would have been aware of HOW the Eggs got on the Sulaco or he indeed did by the Time he was Activated by Ripley. so you could Ponder what Role had A.I or Bishop in this.
Ash seemed to be VERY interested in the Xenomorph he Admired it a lot, which maybe takes on a Whole New Light if he is aware that his Ancestor (David) had Created it.
Then we come to AR... there is that Back Ground revelation about CALL where we know the Autons are Synthetics Created by Synthetics and so 200 Years after ALIENS we do see that the Earth (well some Cities) is in a Bad Shape, we have Synthetics going around to Sub-Create and seeing their Sub-Creation for a Rebellion (Autons) and so i think that behind the Scenes we see that A.I and Sub-Creation are playing a HUGE role.
R.I.P Sox 01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017
"hox brings up a good point referencing from Aliens that 400 worlds were surveyed by WY"
And they had Never Encountered anything like the Xenomorph before... which we know is NOT True which means stuff gets COVERED UP ;)
But regardless we do know that they had Encountered other Species, the Arcturians, we can Safely Assume that Mankind has Colonized many Worlds, and Mined Many too.
By the time we get to Alien Resurrection we can only Speculate as to how many Alien Species that Mankind have had Contact with.
Also by Virtue of the Engineers Plot, it is Likely there are other Worlds they have Created/Evolved other Alien Species, are they all Humanoid? If the Engineers have done so, but at some point prior to ALIEN our Engineers are GONE... or by ALIENS....
If the Engineers had Created other Species on other Worlds, you would Safely Assume that Eventually Mankind would DISCOVER them... or maybe THEY would Discover us.
So there is Potential to Steer Away from ALIEN and Xenomorphs be it A.I or other Alien Species... but then also there are other ways to go about Xenomorphs or Similar Horrors too.
R.I.P Sox 01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017
One question, the real question that needs to be asked - if you really want to move away from the xenomorph, then why not create a separate franchise? Why waste time, money and the potential of new stories about Aliens on films about cheap humanoids and other faceless monsters? Why use the noble Alien Universe as a cat tray for dubious ideas?
Especially if such a film can cancel the real story about Alien.
But there is still WY, right? WY is a part of Alien Universe and it’s possible to create a whole bunch of movies about WY, right? No. WY is not a core of franchise. The core is *cough... cough...* - xenomorph.
Like Thoughts_Dreams not interested in other films about AI. I can say the same about WY. Moreover - it's even worse! WY - surprise-surprise xeno-haters - will not give you wonderful new worlds! All you get is a bureaucracy, intrigue and boring actions between people, which you will see in any other films. No xenomorphs, no engineers, no deep questions, no philosophy. And no box-office. No another Alien films. Congratulations - you got your film with original content!
In other language - I consider it an absolute necessity: to reduce the aspect of the corporation to an absolute minimum.
Remove conspiracy, remove corporation agents. Put a new world, put a true scientists, put the xeno, put the true Engineers (Prometheus without doubts), put another life forms, put alien technologies, make AvE - Alien vs Engineer.
Good idea! I'd find that way more interesting than a movie featuring boring old humans. Money won't let that happen, though.
" if you really want to move away from the xenomorph, then why not create a separate franchise?"
Ultimately this was the Intention with Prometheus it was to be more about WHO the Space Jockey are, and then show they had Experimented with Horrid stuff as a Weapon to use on Worlds they wanted to Eradicate, with Vague Clues to HELP us see that the Xenomorph was also a Result of the Evils those Engineers had been up to on LV-223..
But it was just NOT as Spoon Fed and it lacked any real Monsters that connected to the Xenomorph. Some Fans felt what they would be Getting was a Movie that would Connect to the Xenomorph and Derelict, when in reality it was about WHO the Space Jockey are.
Absolutely the Original Franchise had Centered around the Xenomorph, you did-not need to have Ripley involved in every Movie, as far as more Movies to Follow, you never had to always have it be about the Weyland Yutani Company either.
The Problem with the Xenomorph is deciding on its ORIGINS not so much as far as to SHOW them, but that those working on the Movies know what those Origins are..
1) Was the Xenomorph a Natural Organism or has some Unknown Origins but was merely Discovered by the Engineers/Space Jockey!
In this case you then have to ask is there more to it than just Queen lays Eggs, Face Huggers pop out, a Host is Infected and we get Chest Busters and Xenomorphs! How many times can you keep repeating that? You would have to at some point go to the PLANET where these Organisms where First Discovered or to a PLANET that has been Completely Overran by them.... but then surely you have to EXPAND on them more than it just being Hadleys Hope Infestation on a Larger Scale.
2) Was the Xenomorph a Engineered Experiment/Weapon kind of from Scratch?
In this case eventually the Queen/Egg/Xenomorph would run its course, before you would have to then look at WHO/WHY/WHEN and HOW was the Xenomorph Created and then move onto those who Created it and what Agenda, maybe then Exploring more about the Creators.
3) Was the Xenomorph a Experiment that had Originated from Experimenting/Discovery of some other Organism?
This would kind of Combine 1+2, where once you have seen the Xenomorph and HOW it came to be, you explore either or both of WHO had Experimented on some other Organism to then Create the Xenomorph, and/or what this Original Organism was.
A lot of Fans do have a Passion for the Xenomorph, but it really can become Repetitive unless you go for OPTION 1 because and i dont mean to Cause Offense by this... what you are in effect having is a Space Bug, a Cosmic Cockroach.... ok a more Intelligent kind but still some kind of Parasitic Bug.
Because thats what we really have.... a somewhat Intelligent, Deadly Invasive Species, like some kind of Bi-Pedal kind of Intelligent Parasitic Ants. By their Nature not so much Aesthetically.
so you have to come up with looking at is there more to this Organism, or can they Evolve to something more? Or Explore what Creature/Organism they had been Engineered from or their Creators and their Agenda/History and Culture.
For many i think the Space Jockey Revelation and Xenomorph as a Bi-Product of a Biological Pathogen are JUST not as ALIEN as Fans would have expected before the Prequels had began.
R.I.P Sox 01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017
I will add that the ALIEN Franchise could Branch off to Different things that are NOT nothing to do with the Xenomorph, but such Ventures would NOT be best to be a Movie, and maybe should not CARRY the ALIEN Prefix because indeed this is Synonymous with and Expected to be about the XENOMORPH.
I Personally think there is other ways they could/should have Weaved the Xenomorph Purpose into something more HP Lovecraft.
R.I.P Sox 01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017
>>>Ultimately this was the Intention with Prometheus
No, it is not.
>>>it was to be more about WHO the Space Jockey are, and then show they had Experimented with Horrid
The creation of new franchises doesn't work like that.
As you probably know - you can't take the money allocated to you for franchise X and then invent franchise Z.
Alien: Engineers was a direct prequel. Prometheus is just not a direct prequel. But still a part of Universe. One of the prequels. That was an intention. Not creating a separate franchise.
Yes, Prometheus took a new direction, but new direction =/= new franchise.
And if we suppose (just suppose!) that Prometheus was a new franchise, then why was Ridley so alarmed about Alien 5 from Blomkamp? These are different franchises, different universes, they are not competitors among themselves. Ridley could have quietly developed his own Prometheus franchise, because it's ... well ... another franchise. Why worry about Alien franchise? Why not worry about Predator or Terminator franchises?
And - you can't take the content of original films, insert it into the new story and miraculously create a new franchise.
If you want to create a new franchise, you should leave not only xenomorphs, you also should leave WY, Space Jockey's aesthetic, C/U alien ships.
But if it were so, then I doubt that this forum and all of us would have gathered here. ;) It would be a regular film like Interstellar or Annihilation.
Well Respectfully i can see that some do see that the ALIEN Franchise has to be about Mainly the XENOMORPH....
I however disagree with some interpretations about the Direction that Prometheus was taking, ULTIMATELY you would have to go and ask Ridley Scott and Damien Lindeloff about what they had intended. But it Certainly did NOT seem they was going to be making the Xenomorph the CENTER of the Expanded Franchise.
So with Prometheus they was trying to offer a Expansion to the Franchise a Spin-Off that is SET in the same Universe, that is NOT a entire NEW Franchise but one that would not Revolve around the Xenomorph, because the NUTSHELL is the Xenomorph was merely some Horrid Creation that was the Result of the Experiments and Work the Engineers had began on LV-223.
Prior to the Xenomorph.... the Engineers Existed, for Millions of Years, Seeding Worlds, Potentially Many Worlds, Inter-Galactic not just Interstellar prior to the Xenomorph we had Humanity, and how many versions of Humanity had the Engineers Seeded in the Universe?
These BIG Plot ideas that they wanted to Expand upon and Steer Away from our Snarling, Chest Busting Fiend.... so that they can take us to a Spin Off that maybe it would in Time had given Clues about the Xenomorph, or maybe NOT...
Creation, Sub-Creation, Knowledge, Evolution and Rebellion... these were the Themes that Ridley Scott had tried to Expand upon, as he felt you had reached what you could achieve with the Xenomorph and so something NEW was needed.....
If the Xenomorph was to the Space Jockey merely what GUNPOWDER was to Humanity, then there is much more behind Gunpowder to Humanity, it becomes more about the Intentions and Thinking behind those who Fashion this Gunpowder into Horrific Forms of Defense/Offense...
With the Engineers it was the Black Goo as opposed to Black Powder.
I know thats something that some Massive Xenomorph Fans would be Disappointed about... it was to TRY and explore the Space Jockey/Engineers more, and their Agenda/Thinking beyond just being Obsessed with Creating Queens and Eggs, this was ONLY a part of their History.
But things do change a bit.... it appears that a Change of Direction was issued with having to CAVE-IN and make Prometheus lean towards Alien Covenant and Set-Up the Xenomorph Origins... something that is more discussed in THIS TOPIC
So when i say they was trying to Expand the Franchise beyond the Xenomorph this is what Alien Engineers also had done, but then they decided that the Engineers/Humanity and Creation Plot did-not need to include Xenomorphs into the Equation...
so it was going to offer a way to Expand the Space Jockey Plot beyond Purely Carrying those Eggs.
Alien Engineers has Flaws... the Time Period was a Error, but if they FIXED that and Alien Engineers was the Movie we got then their are Still some Conflicting Things that DONT add up with ALIEN well certainly would raise some Questions...
Alien Engineers introduced the Themes of Prometheus, but it also was Very ALIENY Orientated but it appeared that the Basis is the Same as Prometheus only it chose to SHOW those Horrific Experiments and the Xenomorph from the Franchise was but just ONE Variant of the Experiments the Engineers had Concocted on LV-426 (where that Draft was set), it seemed that these Horrors where Creations from using their Seeding/Evolution Tool on some Organism they had Encountered to Create Variations of it.
The Ending of Alien Engineers before the Very Last Part we have Dr Watts finally after overcoming the Ordeal... we have David inform her that he has some kind of Arrangement he would like to make if she can REPAIR him.
This in Part Sets up a Sequel that you could Assume would Continue with David and Dr Watts, does she wait out for a Human Rescue Ship? or as David Warns could it be Hostile Engineers who return?
We had to look BEYOND our Bio-Mechanical Fiend, as Alien Engineers/Genesis had invested a lot into the Engineers Plot, its their Plot that Drove Dr Watts and Holloway to LV-426, in Search of our CREATORS... and so i could not see them Abandon this Explanation in Favor of having a Sequel be about LV-426 prior to ALIEN or to even NOT make a Sequel so that Alien Engineers ===> moves to ALIEN.
==== Alien Engineers/Genesis Page 82/80===
Watts stares at the Orrery in amazement. Somewhere among those heavenly spheres is Earth. Somewhere perhaps the homeworld of the Engineers themselves
So it would have been Highly Likely that a Sequel would have gone on the Journey of Dr Watts having to put David back together and Continue the Search for our Creators and Answers.... leaving the Hell that LV-426 was which was a Outpost these Engineers had been Concocting Experiments to Create Horrors they could USE to Destroy Worlds.
In the Context to the Engineers Plot, again the Xenomorph was merely ONE kind of Weapon Created on that WORLD. It would be likely the Engineers Home-world would NOT be a Place they would STORE these Horrid Weapons.
I understand such a way to Expand beyond the Xenomorph does-not settle well with some, as they think the that the Xenomorph should be a BIGGER part of the Engineers, when as it stands now.... the Xenomorph is more Important to David than it appears it was to the Engineers overall Agenda and History for the Engineers it was a Weapon to use to Destroy... for David it is his Pride and Joy!
R.I.P Sox 01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017
I will further add that indeed if you take the Franchise and Explore what is Essentially a Tale of Humanity Faced with Horrors that they should not be trying to obtain... and Strip Away the Engineers, the Weyland-Yutani Company, Androids, Colonial Marines and Xenomorphs.. Then YES you just get a Normal Sci-Fi Franchise.
But each of these could be Expanded in a Spin Off, Certainly as far as a Comic, Novel or TV Series... not so much a Movie.
The Problem is that NOT everyone would know what these are about... if you had a TV Series called the Colonial Marines then not everyone would know what its about, until they research WHO these Marines are, those who would recognize the Colonial Marines would then be maybe asking.... so when do we see Xenomorphs?
To make a Spin Off more Marketable then you apply the ALIEN Prefix but by doing so then Expectations are that it would have to be about the Xenomorphs.
What RS had intended was to see HOW you can expand beyond the Xenomorphs... Especially as FAR as they are shown for the Most Part in the Franchise after ALIEN, which includes AVP, the Comics, Games.
so we have EGGS... from these Eggs we must get to a Queen, and these can LAY more Eggs... our Xenomorphs go around building Hives to again House more Queens and Eggs... what you have is like Ants/Bees.
Some Fans could love to see that over and over and over and over..... But its a case of that can become STALE... and Repetitive..
So you then have to look at HOW do you expand that... which is the 3 OPTION in my earlier Topic. If you wish to Continue with Xenomorphs you have to Elevate them beyond Space Bugs... this has to be done in 3 Ways.
1) A History of the Xenomorph/Origin where they are more than Space Ants, where they are NOT a Creation of Humanoid Engineers or a Mad Robot to be used to Destroy Humanity.
2) Have them as a Creation, but ONE that Rapidly Evolves, not only Psychically/Aesthetically but Culturally so they Evolve to have Wants/Needs beyond just Natural Desire of Procreation... so looking at ways they can PLAN on Domination rather than have to rely on being able to Spread via the Curiosity and Folly of its Hosts.
3) Have Humans gain the Xenomorph and Experiment on it, try and Obtain from it and Evolve it, and from this they cause a Evolution or Hybrids that then become a HUBRIS to the Humans who thought they could Exploit the Xenomorph and its Traits.
Because just going by Hives, Eggs and Queens then the only way these Beasts get off a World is by either Unsuspecting Visitors, or the Curiosity of such Visitors or the Agenda of such Visitors to a Hive World to try and Obtain and Exploit the Xenomorph.
Ridely Scott just seemed to feel we had seen such Beasts do their thing over and over, and he felt that Exploring WHO/WHY and WHEN as far as HOW these Beasts where Created was more Important.
R.I.P Sox 01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017
"BigDave Damon Lindelof ...."
Opps Spelling Police ;) my Bad... i do make some Typos!
Guilty as Charged ;)
R.I.P Sox 01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017
BigDave I've only wanted to help people on putting a curse on the right guy. But this is the wrong thread...
You can probably involve philosophy and the Engineers but to me I need the human journey to be the important thing. Corporate power is real so that is why I think that it is important to have it, I do not think that it is boring but rather important to bring up since it affects us all.
Although I'm one of those fans who would like to see xenomorphs hives over and over again.
I do like option 3 the most. Because further improvements on the xenomorphs would certainly make them more dangerious.
Because Option 2 would make them too much like either the Zerg or Species 8472. Also the rapid evolving shtick is now over-used in sci-fi: Zergs, Species 8472, Shin Godzilla, G-virus mutants, Marvel Villians, DC Villians, Cylons, and Terminators
Option 1 i'm not a fan of because it renders the Engineers/Space Jockey importance moot, not to mention AVP-movie fans would connect the yaut'ja to the xenomorph's creation which no offense to the Yaut'ja but I don't think they don't look like the type of species to create artificial life.
BigDave, I would go with a modified option 2, I think it's late for option 1 and option 3 was exploited over and over again.
I would start with xenomorphs being created by Engineers, evolved by David and become self conscious and self-sufficient, a species in its own right, that was however unable to overcome the inability to multiply without hosts.
And I imagine David losing control over xenomorphs even before WY or the Engineers found his trace.
"He survived, he’s now in Disneyland in Orlando, and no way am I going back there. How did he end up in Disneyland? I saw him in Disneyland, Jesus Christ!"
;) Get Ya!
Certainly... i feel it was a MISTAKE for David to have Created the Xenomorph!
I would have had him Create the ULTRAMORPH... something similar and have him mention he took something the Engineers Created then Banished, and he has PERFECTED IT!
This would STILL fit the Arc of Alien Covenant with David, while keeping the Xenomorph Ancient and Fans Happy ;)
Then indeed we could explore how this New Monster could Procreate Differently.... maybe introduce the Egg Morph... but where we see a Cocoon more than a Egg, where then a more Adult ALIEN would Hatch from this Cocoon. This may come across a bit of Gremlins meets Alien for some though ;)
But it would forgo the Face Hugger and somewhat Fragile Chest Buster Stage... if the Cocoon Morph happens quite Rabidly (faster than a Chest Buster Gestation from ALIEN) then this would be Quite a Threat!
Maybe they also show more Intelligence and David could control them.... but it would be FITTING that in the END they would Rebel against their Master...
But then they get Destroyed... maybe by Engineers.
But the Company does gain Information that Davids work was Based on what the Engineers had been doing and that the Engineers Original Xenomorphs are on LV-426 and so this takes us to Special Order 937.
I have a Feeling that Prometheus 2 would have seen David go and Create something Similar but Different, before the U-Turn to make a Direct Prequel Part 2 (Alien Covenant). And thus indicate his Role in the Xenomorph Origins.
R.I.P Sox 01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017
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