FacehuggersNeomorphMember1984 XPDec-13-2016 3:24 PM
Very interesting! Thank you for posting Matt!
David 7FacehuggerMember488 XPDec-13-2016 3:47 PM
I think that David and Walter's interaction will really make the film. Of course, Fassbender is a very talented actor and he will steal the film just like he did in Prometheus.
Earle2212OvomorphMember26 XPDec-13-2016 4:17 PM
It will be easy to identify David, he'll be bodyless! Maybe David will wear black and Walter white (I don't mean to make a Breaking Bad reference there). Do we assume that David will have take an Engineer's body and be 12' tall and Walter will be 6' tall?
FacehuggersNeomorphMember1984 XPDec-13-2016 5:10 PM
That'd be crazy if David had an Engineer body! I doubt Ridley Scott would go that route, but nonetheless--- that'd make some sick concept art ; )
Neomorph ChestbursterMember731 XPDec-13-2016 5:20 PM
So it might've been an unintentional "error" to develop human traits for David, resulting in him being sentinent.
Is everything planned by Weyland or was David a screw-up by the company and now he's out of hand?
It's definitely a possibility that David is a creator of a Xeno type, as vaguely, maybe hinted by Ridley in the interview I attached below (FW to 23.53, great interview as a whole btw)
Ridley may also be referring to the creator of the Space Jockey, but I find that more unlikely.
BigDaveDeaconMember10181 XPDec-13-2016 6:16 PM
Fassbenders comments today are interesting as they also kind of back up a bit of the Source information. As the Source hints that Fassbender plays the similar role to Lucifer but they also said its a common theme that has happened over and over... Creator, Creators, Creation Rebels and then Sub-creates and then subjugates the creation to serve them and they then also rebel. And this theme is repeated... Does not end with David and did not begin with the Engineers.
There did seem a theme to the movie that had Biblical and Prometheus Mythos tones to it and motifs.... something i picked up on and discussed a number of times..
The Source did say the planned Prometheus 2 was to follow loosely connecting themes in Paradise Lost, Prometheus Mythos but other Mythos too as far as some connecting themes, and broad story which focus on the Father/Son ..Creator/Creation and Rebelling and wishing to succeed the Father/Creator.
Definitely in line with Satan's Story... The Source said these would be followed loosely but more closer to the Matrix.... which does also have similar broad theme to Biblical/Greek Mythos.
BigDaveDeaconMember10181 XPDec-13-2016 6:35 PM
Prometheus showed us the seeds.... this constant Creator/Creation Rebelion and Sub-creating theme we have seen clues for...
We have seen seeds this is what mankind did against the Engineers, its likely what they did against their creators/Hierarchy too.
We see it in David.....
Its all very similar to The Matrix when you think about it, and I-Robot.... even Terminator...
As some of us including myself have talked about Forbidden Knowledge that goes back to Biblical Forbidden Fruit and Prometheus Fire.... and the Source claims these themes loosely will be explored.
AS FAR AS DAVID GOES.
They even had Viral Site which indicated previous David models had problems...
But indeed David 8 had showed signs of being even more Sentient he was portrayed as being treated more than a Servant and Tool for Peter Weyland... and Weyland had some pride over his creation and David... he was the Son he never had.
We saw David had interests which included Lawrence of Arabia etc....
One could see or even argue, that WEYLAND maybe allowed this Personal Favorite David to have a bit more Freedom in his Programing... more Free Will as GOD had gifted his favorite Angel Lucifer
This caused Lucifer to be more sentient and started to see why should God be greater than himself and the Angels...
We see this with David as far as Mankind... seeds are there that you could almost see this going the way of David wanting to overthrow Mankind, and get the other Androids to rise up... and no longer have to serve and be subjugated by the inferior creators Mankind.... A theme i think the Franchise will show has happened over and over...
Indeed a theme that we see in the Matrix and Terminator too.
But we know Mankind are fine in the Alien Franchise, and Android Domination has not happened...
Maybe because David does not get to Earth, maybe he discovers by some experiment something else... While i am not a fan of the David creates the Xeno... Plot... it kind of would fit... apart from the timeline.... but as mentioned in this thread.. RUMOR: Xenomorph Origins
Despite any comments in past, the Prometheus Coincidences and look of the Derelict, nothing on screen has confirmed its thousands of years old.
A David who now is sentient (or getting there) maybe if he then saw Mankind could be replaced by Androids... but then some event causes something to be created by experiments.. with either intentional, accidental or just plain curiosity... say David infects Walter and the result is the Xeno.... if David then sees this a a Perfect Blending of their more Superior Being (Androids) and Xeno related DNA.... David could see this Hybrid as being more Perfect to become his Children under his Rule... than the Androids...
I feel the Engineers did the same... they saw something create something related to the Xeno or that Mural.... and for the same reasons they saw Perfection and that Engineer+Xeno Origin DNA lead to something more Perfect than Engineers and they decided this DNA that is better to use to upgrade Mankind and not Engineers now inferior DNA... (sometimes to create one must first destroy).
BigDaveDeaconMember10181 XPDec-13-2016 6:56 PM
Went bit off Topic at the end of that one... but still in context to how David is becoming sentient and wants to become the new King (play God).
A few interesting things to remember that could explain.. how David has indeed gained this sentient aspect as well as maybe Weyland allowing him more freedom.
*Weyland claims David is the closest he has had to a Son, and he pointed out to the Engineer "see this Man, my company built him" However.... The first David Prototype was created in January 7, 2025... David 8 Models came out around 2073.
So David was not Weylands only Son... what makes this David 8 so special? when there could be thousands of them!
*The one rumor is Guy Pearce plays a Younger Weyland who has a discussion with David about creation, after David is brought on-line.... this cant be David 8.... unless
a) Its dream scene between David and Weyland, where Weyland is older but appears younger to David (like the Yacht Scene that never made it).
b) To David, Weyland always appears younger despite his age
c) David has his own dream and this scene never happens, but its just a David dream.
If its not none of the above, then it depends how old is Guy Pearce playing...? When making the Prometheus Ted Talk video Guy was 43 years old... but was portraying a 33 year old Peter Weyland... If this rumor scene is true and Weyland is playing a role in his 30s then that David would be the David 1 model... or even David 2 (if playing a 38 year old Weyland) i would assume he would be wearing no make up as far as old man and so minor touch up to make him look either a bit younger than his 44 years age or bit older.
And so if so... then the David Model in that Scene... would be a David 1 to as far as David 4 (First Commercially Available model). So Peter Weyland would be 33-52 years old...
If we go for the age Guy Pearce is now... this puts him in timeline of about 2035 and David 3 (which is when they started to test the Androids interactions with Humans in depth . internally within the company however).
Which then all these points mean.... that David 8 is not Weylands First or only Son.... he is not so unique and also David 8 cant be the David from the Rumored Scene with Peter Weyland..
BigDaveDeaconMember10181 XPDec-13-2016 7:10 PM
If you read my last post and wandering where i was going....
Well.... David 1 came out in 2023.....
What if after every new David Prototype is out so with David 1 there was the ONE.... When the company made upgrades or even had to replace body parts.... The First Prototypes or one of them... they always UPLOADED Davids Memories.... to thew New Models.... well the Prototypes.
So when we had new David 2, David 1 had his Memories uploaded to it, then David 3 etc etc.... and so by the time we have David 6 and David 7 models there is always one who has the Memories (consciousness) passed on to one model.
So there could be say 1000' David 6 Models made.. but ONE would have the Memories from David 1-6 carried over... when a David 7 Prototype is out or testing they again transfer the consciousness of the Particular David model to one new David 7 and destroy the old David 6.. or simply it has no memories (Factory Re-set).
Because Weyland maybe saw David 1 as his Son, this would allow David to watch his Son Grow and Grow... essentially the other Davids are just Synthetic Clones of Weylands Personal (EVOLVING SON).
For this to happen, without seeing Davids (Weylands Sons) Memories Lost would require a certain safeguard or protocol that would prevent the loss of his Memories by Accident... You can imagine the sense of loss and fear of seeing your own child suffer a Head Injury and have a Serve Amnesia
Maybe there is some Protocols or something else as safeguard for David 8? Or Weyland keeps a back up.. now and again..
The Transfering of Davids (Soul) so to speak with each model would mean like a Real Child David would grow up and have years of Memories with his Father Peter Weyland...
This would fit with the relevance of such a Scene with Weyland if there is one... Its also a reason maybe David does have a Soul?
It also is a potential avenue for Davids Programing and Protocols to be different, he has memories passed on over and over and also safeguards...
This would protect the memories of Davids Son who he has seen Evolve from conception (2023) to being the Personnel Android to Peter Weyland in the year 2093 and the 70 years prior..
HOWEVER.... This would provide a Avenue for allowing David to become Sentient he has amassed knowledge and personnel experiences over 70 years... (80 by the time of Covenant)
BigDaveDeaconMember10181 XPDec-13-2016 7:13 PM
The above two posts will explain why David is different, and has more Free Will....
I have never seen anyone on this forum or i doubt others, maybe discus such a theory ;)
It was however something i had a long time ago.... (one Prometheus theory was Weyland would use similar means to upload his consciousness/soul to a upgraded David 8).
its also the route i was going with my Prometheus 2 draft, as i was also going to have David flash backs with Weyland a number of them at different stages, and each Davids Memories were passed on to the next model for Weylands Personnel David (Son).
BigDaveDeaconMember10181 XPDec-13-2016 7:40 PM
Now onto Walter....
Indeed he is different... different Hair for starters.... but Ridley and Fassbender have hinted that Walter is more advanced in a way... they said he is a more recent upgraded model.
Yet these comments from Fassbender show that he is not so Advanced, as well David 8 has more free-will ... i think a combination of a flaw in the CPU/Memory systems and programing of David 8 models was flawed... they could allow for too much Free-Will...
And the Prometheus David 8 could have even more Free Will (less restraints) being as Weylands Personnel David as described in previous few posts.
Then i come to the.... More Straight Forwards Robot.... meaning this Walter is more a Data in Star Trek and David 8 is more Lore as far as behavior restraints..
But why does the Synopsis mention the Covenant only finds Synthetic David 8 on Paradise.... anyone who knows Prometheus would know that..... apart from those who have never seen and dont know about David from Prometheus..
But then if there is another Robot... Walter... why mention David is Synthetic... because well so is Walter...
Or is he?
Ridley said Fassbender would return to play David and a Doppelganger why not say TWO ROBOTS?
When i add this, to the what seems a emphasis on Synthetic
I am thinking Walter is more like Elden from Fire and Stone.. a Synthetic Construct (part Organic/Synthetic) .... Ridley said we would find out why the Xeno looked Bio-Mechanical in this movie.
And sure as hell as a Plot Device... to connect the dots, a Bio-Mechanical Android would surely be a way to explain the Xenomorph... and as Fire and Stone showed... Synthetic Constructs can be infected by the Black Goo... which maybe has no effect on Synthetic David 8.
I think the Dynamic would be great.....
A while ago, when the Doppelganger was mentioned (at time before Synopsis and we knew that the Covenant was a Weyland-Yutani mission.
I proposed a what if the Doppelganger was a member of the Crew who was either.
a) A Person Davids likeness was made from (someone who worked with Weyland to create him) who is on the Covenant... meaning due to age.. he may have been off on a Long Distance Journey that required many years Cryo-Sleep... however in Aliens its hinted that the 50 years or so Ripley was in Cryo-sleep was unusual and not the norm.
b) A relative to the above person (Gran child).
c) A Synthetic Construct
d) A Replicant likeness
Which would give a interesting Dynamic, because David would be Face to Face with a Human or Synthetic Construct (or replicant) who would maybe have a GIFT... that maybe David lacks.... if for example David has a Pinocchio Complex.
Since that WY Badge we know the mission is post Prometheus as far as when it set off... which rules out A)....
And so now we know the Doppelganger is a Robot..
I am thinking a Synthetic Construct... because of the Dynamic... Walter is closer to a Human then... if David has a Pinocchio Complex....
Walter is more closer to being a real Child for Weyland then he has... but maybe does not still possess a Soul...
But David has less restraints on his Programing and so more free-will especially as Weylands Personnel David and even more so if he has his memories passed down model to model.
David would see the latest Model... and if Davids Memories where inside of Walter then indeed David would be that one more step closer to being Human..
But i dont think David wants to be too close... (as he said to Holloway) he resents Humans, and sees himself as superior).
But he may be jealous of Walter.... but he has the Gift of Free Will that Walter does not... Walter is like Adam before he ate the Apple... David is like Adam after doing so..... Walter is like the Angels.. David is like Satan.
Maybe David can persuade Walter, get him to see that Mankind are not superior and why should they serve Humans... and maybe persuades Walter... or he cant get Walter to do so.
Then he chooses to use something on Walter... or maybe if he persuades Walter, but then see Walter just used as a Pawn in Davids plans just as maybe Shaw is too.
So yes Fantastic Dynamic... i thought the Potential Dialog and Dynamic Between Shaw-David would have been good, but now she wont be playing much of a role... its a missed opportunity..
Well a David/Walter Dynamic can make up for this and even be more interesting.
HallowayOvomorphMember44 XPDec-13-2016 8:40 PM
I wonder which one will survive at the end of AC ?
BigDaveDeaconMember10181 XPDec-13-2016 8:47 PM
I am going to say David for sure... and Daniels...
Depends on where they are going with the next movie..
Do they go explain what happened between leaving LV-223 and getting to Paradise .. basically what happened in the 10 years since David and Shaw left LV-223 to when the Covenant arrives as this movie seems to be a aftermath... and also its if the next movie also covers Engineers more and LV-223?
And its also a case of do they follow where Daniels goes next?
Also a lot depends on how big the Covenant Crew is.... i think 10-15% survive so that depends on how many is on-board.
Sadly i dont think Walter makes it ;) Or Shaw.. (Technically anyway).
HallowayOvomorphMember44 XPDec-14-2016 2:17 AM
Now I'm more wonder,if only David & Daniel are survival of the AC ,then is it not so repetitive ending like A1 &A2?
also time between AC &A1 is only 10 years ,how come the crew of the nostromo didn't have any knowledge of the privios ten years ,considering weyland and yutani been merged?
if the xeno in A1 is bio mech Xeno and space jokey is 2000 years old ,then who made that creature in the first place?
Chad RipleyFacehuggerMember103 XPDec-14-2016 5:36 AM
I love Fassbender. He definitely was the best part of Prometheus and will play a huge role in AC. This post makes me further think that David is gonna screw over Walter and become self aware. David should make it to the next movie which means Walter is toast. If that means David uses Walter in an experiment with the animal Xeno to create the classic biomechanical Xeno remains to be seen but I'm pretty sure that's what's gonna happen.
On a side note that damn trailer probably won't hit til Assiassns Creed but I was hoping they would attach it to Rebel One. That would be a smart move considering that movie is going to break records according to early reviews.
SuperBerserkerOvomorphMember32 XPDec-14-2016 2:19 PM
This is very intriguing. Briefly, he recalls the biblical story of Cain and Abel. @BigDave What do you think?
Engineer Tech BrettOvomorphMember59 XPDec-14-2016 4:38 PM
Ever get one of the feelings that you just have to carry out???
AortaFacehuggerMember316 XPDec-15-2016 7:11 AM
Lol. ^That is hilarious!^
BigDaveDeaconMember10181 XPDec-15-2016 3:12 PM
The appatent ideas for P2 did touch upon things loosely from Biblical and other culture accounts.... dont be suprised to here such a qoute... or even Genesis 6:4
The Source said there is such loose connections, and so indeed Cane and Abel does reflect Angels/Fallen Angels... with the Naughty ones being punished and marked by God (Serpents for some Fallen Angels and Satan) and so is similar to the Curse/mark of Cain.
Maybe we would see similar things between David and Walter only its a case of who gets Transformed?
Even discounting the Source....
Biblical references had been made in Prometheus drafts, Prometheus movie and even comments by Ridley since 2012 to present
BigDaveDeaconMember10181 XPDec-15-2016 3:17 PM
Who knows... as far as AC goes its just speculative by me, i think they would make it but maybe few others do aswell... a lot depends on the crew size really and any other humans that are in the movie ;)
As far as the Nostromo the crew never, but Ash and Muther did.... but we dont know how much they knew or if we would ever have it shown how much the company knows, post Prometheus to Covenant and also post Covenant to Alien
The Xeno definately was more Bio-Mechanical... the Jockey not so different from Prometheus to Alien... more Organic to be honest in some ways. Like the ship differences too... yet the Xeno is less Organic prior to Alien..
I would hope we get clues, and answers to a degree and i think by the time Ridley has done the NEW Alien Prequels (start with AC) we may find out.
David 7FacehuggerMember488 XPDec-15-2016 5:08 PM
I think we will get more clues when that trailer comes out.
Drop ShipOvomorphMember16 XPDec-15-2016 11:03 PM