FacehuggersNeomorphMember1984 XPDec-11-2016 7:01 PM
Wow, this is surely revealing!!! I'm looking forward to see how the two androids interact--- Fassbender's great!
But could this actually be Fox's subtle way to heighten the surprises and twists in COVENANT---by misleading the audience?
Just a thought ;)
Thanks for post, Chris! Upvoted!
(Also, why does the line "It's why Ash is so fascinated with it in the first Alien film and regards it as perfect." seem so abrupt? It looks like the anonymous viewer must have seen direct connections to ALIEN, or they're thinking real hard about it.)
RedXeno428OvomorphMember53 XPDec-11-2016 7:26 PM
So we'll have the white xenos, the organic xeno, and the classic one at the end? sign me up!
Sci-Fi King25PraetorianMember4297 XPDec-11-2016 7:50 PM
I'll definitely see this movie now.
Chad RipleyFacehuggerMember103 XPDec-11-2016 7:56 PM
I knew it! Well if this turns out to be true. I remember posting on here that I thought that Xeno on the poster wasn't the classic biomechanical one, and that David is gonna help transform/enhance that xeno somehow. I bet it involves killing Walter and using his mechanical DNA to give us our classic xenomorph.
This definitely is exciting news and makes me even more amped for the movie (if that's even possible). I do wonder though what Ridley Scott is thinking with this new (mechanical isn't just a look thing) in regards to getting around the ship so easily. I think it is a cool concept if they introduce something new about the Alien that we never saw before. The part that said it could divide Alien fans isn't that concerning to me. I'm pretty sure Scott isn't gonna have the Alien turn its tail into a screw driver and that's how they get through those vents to fast. It could be something where they have some kind of scanning ability like the terminator that allows them to map out where they go? Or use their bodies in ways we've never seen before. Which all could be thanks to Walter being killed by David and spliced into the natural Xeno.
Its just a theory but I think that could be cool. In all the Alien movies we never really got to see how a Xeno sees except in Alien 3. But that was a dog Alien (technically a Ox) so maybe the classic ones have the ability to scan like an android would to some capacity. Anyway super cool post and I'm so excited it's ridiculous.
ChrisEngineerAdmin21803 XPDec-11-2016 8:06 PM
It would certainly be exactly (and I mean exactly) what we predicted. How ironic! The only reason I bothered posting this as a front page feature is due to the fact that a very trusted and well respected source has vouched that a lot of what we've discussed / theorized on this site is very close to on the money with what actually happens in Alien: Covenant. However, they never explained what theories were close, just that "some of them" are. This one about David creating the Xenomorph has been an ongoing discussion here for over a year now, so I suspected it could be close to the truth.
Anyways, if it's true - hell yeah! If not, still an interesting topic, but also exciting because we still don't know for sure how the Xeno comes about. Either way, it's a win win for us to geek out over!
danraldOvomorphMember6 XPDec-11-2016 8:26 PM
SuperBerserkerOvomorphMember32 XPDec-11-2016 8:27 PM
Oh my gosh! If this is confirmed? It's going to hit my theory straight. Chris, has my topic been approved? I sent it for approval a few days ago and it's pretty much what I theorized about David being the creator of Xenomorph.
Dylan ChrysanthouOvomorphMember14 XPDec-11-2016 8:35 PM
Reading through all this information is always exciting. I however think that the xenon David creates does not become the classic xeno from the original alien. I think it will be something else entirely, something weyland yutani wants to reproduce, resulting in special order 937. My justification for this theory is the timelines don't match up. The derelict ship in alien had been there for thousands of years as the space jockey is fossilized when the nostromo crew investigates, this occurs in year 2122. Prometheus takes place in 2093/2094. Alien Covenant takes place 10 years after the events of prometheus making the year 2104 or there abouts. Only 18 years before the nostromo lands on lv426. So how did all those eggs get there if David created them?
RedXeno428OvomorphMember53 XPDec-11-2016 8:55 PM
Perhaps AC will just show a representation of a similar way that the bio-mechanical alien could be created, eluding to an older, bio-mechanical Being that created them. (God of the Engineers?)
SuperBerserkerOvomorphMember32 XPDec-11-2016 9:03 PM
That was the topic I created, with the similar theories I imagined. If this leak is real? I hit a lot.
Once again I was thinking about the plot involving David and the creation of the Xenos. And if by chance, David is contaminated by the Black Goo or a facehugger and generate the Xeno that we know? I thought of this theory, it does not seem to make sense, but I will try to explain my point of view that will make things a bit clearer and more acceptable.
Spoilers and rumors indicate that David is experimenting with Xenos and Black Goo, right.
The crew will be infected and will generate the Neomorphs, the new type of Xeno.
And if by chance, making contradiction what Prometheus insinuated with the question of "creation turning against the creator" and perhaps David is infected by a Facehugger! We know it's a synthetic, okay.
But if they remembered and searched again in Prometheus, David left the planet with Shawn without the head! (The Engineer had ripped her apart from her body). What makes me wonder how he's been in Covenant?
The only explanation I could find was whether he or even Shawn, because of the lack of components needed to repair David (who knew how to operate the engineers' technology), used black goo to make David recover, so he just did not Recovered its head back in place and returned to be a simple synthetic, but a synthetic well "semi-organic", to have anatomy similar to humans (due to the similar physical design). So, the same after having his head repaired and his body improved, he turned on Shawn, killed her (or immobilized) and took control of the Juggernaut (or the betrayal of the androids turned into body-fighting between them, causing perch The control of the Juggernaut and the fall of the spacecraft on the new planet). With Shawn dead or immobilized, he began experiments with his body, preserving him for his experiences with black goo. With the film, he manages to create the Neomorphs using the new crew as hosts, but it is revealed to him that he had done another, more complex experiment where the classic eggs and facehuggers emerge after infecting the crew at a final moment David dies), it is shown that he had had contact with one of his experiments, that turned against him "indirectly", being thus, by having its semiorganic body, a Xeno manages to emerge of David and becomes the current Xeno In which we know.
Now why do I say this? For it would justify the Biomechanical system of the Xenomorphs, its acidic blood, as well as being beings that live only in function of the species, that is, only reproducing and killing everything that is in its path, the perfect organism, without emotions, as the Created by Weyland. Anyway, this is just my theory, it may sound crazy, but it's still interesting. What do you think? I want to hear from you!
SuperBerserkerOvomorphMember32 XPDec-11-2016 9:55 PM
These rumors also make some sense with the other recent posting, in which he mentioned that David had a soul. In the end, can it really be this question of self-awareness? Is the puppet master in Alien? Lol
SvanyaPraetorianAdmin4319 XPDec-11-2016 11:50 PM
This actually isn't new. Giger said in an interview way back when, that both the Xenomorph and the Space Jockey were inspired by his 'Biomechanics' series, that it was a fusion between the organic and the inorganic/machine.
"Giger's most distinctive stylistic innovation was that of a representation of human bodies and machines in a cold, interconnected relationship, he described as "biomechanical".
Myself and others been speculating that David might be the progenitor of the Xenomorph we know from the first Alien movie since Prometheus was announced. Here are a couple threads, dating from as early as 2012: black goo and david - Primordial ooze
Have to say that 4/chan isn't the most reliable of sources though, so that could be a troll post. Either way, it's fun to speculate.
django421OvomorphMember12 XPDec-12-2016 5:38 AM
I thought the timeline established that the derelict had left LV-223 prior to the Engineers attempting to leave to destroy humanity, in the juggernaut.
StarbeastOvomorphMember4 XPDec-12-2016 5:47 AM
I come to think of some dialogue in Aliens in respect of the xenos being very intelligent:
Ripley: They cut the power...
Hudson: How could they cut the power?!? They're animals man!
ChrisEngineerAdmin21803 XPDec-12-2016 6:10 AM
@SuperBerserker, yep! There are no threads awaiting approval at the moment. After a while you no longer require approval as well, so either check the forums here or the Topics tab on your profile to see if where you posted it!
@Svanya, exactly it's crazy how we were speculating this possibility since Prometheus released.
It sounds like David does not give birth to a Xeno (although could be wrong) but it sounds like he, like Weyland created him, plays God and creates his own "soulless child" by using the DNA of a native Alien and his own, somehow transcended artificial genetic makeup.
I think a line in ALIEN suggested this fact back in 1979 when Ash discussed the Xenomorph - the perfect organism, unclouded by remorse or delusions of morality - aspects which affect those with a "soul". For the Alien to kill without thinking, to have zero regard for life and acts like a machine in a sense, makes me think it, like David, has no soul.
I'm gonna expand on this in a new topic soon titled "David and his Rebellion against Humanity". I've got more to add but it's too much for one comment haha.
Neomorph ChestbursterMember739 XPDec-12-2016 6:56 AM
^ very interesting point there about the reference to the "perfect organism", I hope that is what Ash referred to if this is the case in AC.
BigDaveDeaconMember10358 XPDec-12-2016 7:08 AM
Indeed its a theory that has been discussed here a few times, i even had it as far back as April 2012 when i thought David would play Pinocchio and Evolve himself to be closer to a Real Boy... but in doing so... his Hubris gets in the way of the other experiment he had done... that lead to Shaws Baby Squid... and David gets Face Hugged by it and thats how we get the Xeno..... This theory however is not what i liked as i always felt the SJ and Derelict to be Ancient...
This theory was proven wrong when latter trailers hit, that showed Davids Head lol... i will explain more on your thread...
But also once Ridley mentioned a long while ago about he had a big idea for David and how he gets back together and then latter how he (Fassbender) would be back in a Whole New Way.....
This got me thinking about my Prometheus Xeno theory i had prior to the movie... and thinking... could they be actually doing such a thing NOW?
This when i looked at the 2013 comment about "David bringing Hell with him" and "what happens if the Goo infects GOD or a MACHINE" and indeed i then wondered is David indeed going to discover something on Paradise or before and Evolve himself?
Then we had latter comment about Fassbender playing more than one Role...
Then in November 2015 Synopsis came out where David is listed as Synthetic which well anyone who saw Prometheus would know.... and so with the Ridleys Doppelganger comment in regards to Fassbender.... lead me to think well it cant be another Robot like David... because why not say he plays Two Robots.
So this got me thinking that this Fassbender will be back in a Whole New Way...... and Doppelganger combined with Synthetic mention in the Synopsis in regards to David..
Made me think he would play another Role... another David but this one is not Synthetic... its either Human Counterpart... a Replicant..... which i doubt... or a Synthetic Construct like Elden from Fire and Stone.
And that this Doppelganger will be used to Produce something Bio-Mechanical..... because well David touched the Black Goo with no effects........ Elden was infected in Fire and Stone and thats my bet for what the doppelganger thats now called Walter is.
Thoughts_DreamsNeomorphMember1650 XPDec-12-2016 7:13 AM
“Forum member Dark Nebula discovered a thread on 4chan by an anonymous user who claims to have been part of a test audience for Alien: Covenant.“
I don’t know, when ever I read something about someone who supposedly saw something I tend to get skeptical. There are a lot of information out there, there is no need to believe everything that you read and hear.
Obviously we can’t be sure until we will see the movie so there is no need to imagine that we can take much as fact until it is released. If some of what has been said about this here on the forum is close to how it will be then that’s interesting.
Chris: How can David have DNA if he is an android? DNA would require something that is organic, right? Maybe this has got something to do with the bio-mechanical thing that Giger started.
BigDaveDeaconMember10358 XPDec-12-2016 7:14 AM
Indeed its a hybrid between the two..... The Derelict and Xenomorph seemed connected, in the Aesthetics but also construction material (as far as Xeno hives) They was both Bio-Mechanical.
The Monsters in Prometheus includes many Concepts, and those leaked Alien Covenant ones do not have that Bio-Mechanical Look they are far more ORGANIC
Where as the Juggernaught was similar to the Derelict just far more MECHANICAL/SYNTHETIC
If you Merged the Prometheus and Covenant leaked Organic Molecular Aesthetic with the Juggernaught Synthetic/Machine Molecular Aesthetic then maybe this gives the Derelict/Xenomorph?
Ridley did say a long while ago... David was bringing Hell with him and what happened if the Black Goo was used on GOD or MACHINE.. (may been Robot?)
Maybe this comment is a Clue?
David 7FacehuggerMember488 XPDec-12-2016 7:22 AM
I kind of figured that David would play some part in the creation of the "perfect organism". After all, now in this film, he has evolved and sees himself above the humans. He now looks down upon them. He now is the creator. It will be interesting to see how he interacts with Walter and well, what he does with Walter in the end.
Now, we just need a trailer...come on Fox...!
BigDaveDeaconMember10358 XPDec-12-2016 7:24 AM
"I'm gonna expand on this in a new topic soon titled "David and his Rebellion against Humanity". I've got more to add but it's too much for one comment haha."
The Source did say as i put on here prior to Alien Covenant, that what seemed hinted in regards to David that we would see Rebellion, Retribution and then Redemption.
Maybe thats what we could see...
We know David was interested in the Engineers, he even mocked Weyland and Co when he mentioned "Superior Technology" when Weyland entered the Juggernaught Pilot Chamber.
Also when he mentioned "Mortal after All" and Big Things have Small Beginnings" and maybe also "sometimes to create, one must first destroy"
So David knows the Engineers are not Gods, its the Technology they possessed that allowed them to be as powerful as they are... David has some resentment towards Mankind.
Only he has the keys to unlock the Engineers Secrets, without David the Prometheus mission would have not obtained or even suffered as much.....
The Source claimed David had a Agenda and he wanted to be God, as Weylands Ted Talk suggested.... "we are the Gods now"
Shaw was originally not listed as working on AC but then latter she did a weeks worth scenes (compared to say 16 weeks Fassbender did) The Source claimed back in April 2015 that Shaw plays only a small role and Technically does not die.
Ridley Scott did say once Davids head goes back on, he would be Dangerous... but Persuasive.
So indeed i think there is potential for David to want to seek out the Engineers for his own Agenda... Shaw is just a Pawn for him to use... so David could play God....
But after seeing what he has done... maybe he has a Redeeming Moment?
This could show he has a SOUL... as far as how one of the latest official comments tried to suggest..
Once again Information the Source had passed from Feb-May 2015 seems to maybe be accurate as far as this... Rebellion, Retribution and then Redemption.
Thoughts_DreamsNeomorphMember1650 XPDec-12-2016 7:25 AM
David007: Well didn't he look down on humans in Prometheus also? Maybe he hasn't evolved in that sense but in another way?
I totally agree with you about the trailer.
BigDaveDeaconMember10358 XPDec-12-2016 7:26 AM
"Artificial gene synthesis, sometimes known as DNA printing is a method in synthetic biology that is used to create artificial genes in the laboratory."
This is something Science is trying and indeed could in part be what is different between David and Walter
Thoughts_DreamsNeomorphMember1650 XPDec-12-2016 7:29 AM
Big Dave: OK, I didn't even know that there was a thing such as that (artificial gene synthesis). This is interesting
David 7FacehuggerMember488 XPDec-12-2016 8:13 AM
I'm starting to think and believe that David is behind the demise of the Engineers. That he had a hand in it and after all, being for 10 years....some stuff had to happen.
Thoughts_DreamsNeomorphMember1650 XPDec-12-2016 8:34 AM
David007: Maybe if David gets to Paradise when there are still Engineers there, he wants to play God and in a way creates the Xeno. The Xeno is hostile by nature and in some way kills all the Engineers.
BigDaveDeaconMember10358 XPDec-12-2016 9:27 AM
But then we have to Question these few things.
*The leaked Shots and official leak show many Humanoids in what looks like similar or different locations or maybe two faces of a Temple.... This shows Paradise (if it is) at this time has a fair number of these beings. The set seems to lack any Advanced Technology.
So for David to be the one who destroys them.. we have to then wander why was the Last Engineer on LV-223 from Paradise, and if this Paradise is where such a Advanced Race came from... would they have knowledge of the Juggernaught... do they have means of defense?
or is it a case of..... oh... look at that landing here (asumes like Ancient Astronaught theory some Temples are actually landing platforms)
Then its like oh... look and then David Bombs them with Black Goo? would they not be weary? Unless these beings Evolved from what ever those Engineers once were thousands of year ago or 35'000 plus? And have no Technology no more... again like Ancient Astronaught theory as far as how Advanced maybe Egyptians were etc.
*Or it could be Ancient Scene, and the aftermath is what David uncovers?
Remember Micheal Beihn did say that as far as he was told, Alien Covenant was set Thousands of Years ago...... if they are to try and connect our Engineers and LV-223 but not actually have timeline interactions with the Crew i.e no Engineers as of 2093+
Then Flash Backs make Sense.
David 7FacehuggerMember488 XPDec-12-2016 9:32 AM
I was under the impression from other posts that Covenant takes place 30 years prior to the events of the Nostromo, no? I can understand that when David and Shaw arrive, the race of the Engineers have been wiped out. Would explain why no one returned to Lv-223 to check on that last Engineer. Is there an official timeline that has been produced with regards to Prometheus to the events of the Nostromo?
BigDaveDeaconMember10358 XPDec-12-2016 9:49 AM
Yes David they have to give us some clues to why no Engineers came back if they came from Paradise, especially if David and Shaw did find some 10 years or up to 10 years prior to the Covenant.
its got to cover why they never came back...
*Never knew about us.... they would no soon as David arrives
*Was they all dead?
*Or a few remained but David saw them off..
Earlier Ridley did say i think in 2013 that a sequel would go to the Planet of the Engineers, they would meet these beings who are not God, and they are not Benevolent.... and they did not want to meet God in the first movie (Engineers are not God?) or God is in like the Human Pharaohs are compared to rest of Humanity.
Surely once David arrives any such non-benevolent beings would want to then destroy us...
Ah... but Ridley added... "David is bringing Hell with him.. what if the Black Goo infects GOD or MACHINE"
We have to consider the COVENANT theme also..
Maybe the beings on Paradise made a Covenant to never attack Earth again.... the whole cir***stance that lead to this and maybe Rebelion in their Culture too left them in a state of decline.
They had to maybe, Abandon Mankind and any attempt to destroy us.... as their numbers are now weak.... and it was simply too risky..
Instead just leave us to ROT and destroy ourselves.. without their help, we would never ever be able to Leave Earth.
I think this is where the COVENANT comes in.. like how God made one to Noah that he would never Flood the Earth again.
This would change once David and Shaw arrive..... but then David has that Cargo....
RuhaniyaOvomorphMember13 XPDec-12-2016 10:06 AM
So if David helps create the Xenomorph....So where are the real Aliens?
Dark NebulaXenomorphStaff1181 XPDec-12-2016 10:39 AM
Whatever that rumor says, is it true or false,I honestly don't know.To be honest I was skeptical at first when I saw it,but I then remembered the early sources from the last year posted by Dave that matched some things.
Lol I remember many months ago when someone on IMDb claimed that he is the son of Harry Gregson W. and that his father has let him see some scenes for Alien covenant.Later all of that turned out to be true.
He first mentioned that he saw some scenes with some characters and that the Engineer planet has a jungle setting.
I wasn't sure about it so I asked him what were those characters doing in those scenes,in which he replied and only then said that some virus enters some guy's ear and later alien bursts from his back,he also mentioned that its really gruesome and gory.
Many people including me thought he was making things up or trolling because IMDb is full of trolls,but the Jungle setting and backbursting intrigured me a little because the location they were shooting (New Zealand) had jungle setting and in doc. furious gods making of prometheus writer Jon Spaihts mentioned that they were experimenting with different kind of bursting methods (he did mentioned the backbursting).
(Im not saying that this rumor is necessarily true,still its interesting to discuss about it.)
But if that rumor turns out to be true,and David is the creator of the classic xenos Idk how are they going to explain the derelict and the ovomorphs in it since Ridley said that its an ancient event.They better come up with something in the sequels if they want to explain it.
David 7FacehuggerMember488 XPDec-12-2016 11:11 AM
Then that means there will have to be some reconstruction story wise with regard to the original derelict. How long he has been there and who discovered signal.
Thoughts_DreamsNeomorphMember1650 XPDec-12-2016 11:32 AM
Dark Nebula: It is always difficult to know exactly if someone is being honest at the www. It could have been anyone and maybe that person was just being lucky that a lot of it was true. Some random persons claims something on the Internet, do you trust that or not? My point is that is it always important to doubt things.
About the Derelict and the Xenos: What if David creates the original Xeno and that the Engineers learn how to do that later. The Engineers learn how to get the Eggs, get them on-board in order to go to earth and drop them there but something goes wrong and the SJ gets face hugged and lands on LV-426.
How about this?
Dark NebulaXenomorphStaff1181 XPDec-12-2016 11:59 AM
A lot of things eventually change as the time passes by.
In the original draft of Alien the SJ's actually discovered these eggs inside the pyramid on LV-426.
Later they changed it because of budget.Ridley even said on commentary track of Alien that the derelict is a bomber ship that was carrying these objects (eggs) as a weapon.
They even used that concept in the original draft of prometheus titled Alien engineers,but Fox then wanted to move away from alien so they hired Damon to rewrite the screenplay.And when the black goo was introduced to us,alot of things eventually changed.
In Giger's mind it was the egg silo that was producing xeno eggs from pregnant biomechanical bellies on walls.Then in Aliens we were introduced to the alien queen.
There was even a mural that Giger did that was showing different xeno life cycle (no queen) that was planned to be placed somewhere inside the derelict but was never used because they couldn't find a place for it and because Ridley thought that it would tell the story of alien too directly.
Also the deleted cocoon scene from Alien,idk if it is cannon.
Aaaannnddd Ridley said some years ago about derelict having something to do with the outbreak on LV-223 and the pilot getting infected with its cargo,then something evolving within the cargo bla bla bla...
I think that David might be trying to recreate the beast that destroyed the Engineers.
Neomorph ChestbursterMember739 XPDec-12-2016 12:13 PM
Everything is shrouded in mystery, it's so difficult to speculate.
What feels like certainty is that David, a key figure, more or less has his milky blooded android fingers in the events and possibly in the outcome as well.
Thoughts_DreamsNeomorphMember1650 XPDec-12-2016 12:28 PM
Dark Nebula: Yeah I guess so. Since these things were not really shown in alien then I guess that they have had time to changed their minds about this a lot.
I think that I have read about the pyramid in some draft, that would have been interesting but they would probably have to build more things if they would show that. Ridley said that the ship had these eggs but that must have meant that they changed their minds after some time what ever it was that caused that to happen.
The idea that it was the egg silos that made the eggs is a bit weird and I cannot really accept that. Maybe there is a way to use that in a way that is less weird but that might change with Alien Covenant.
QubismFacehuggerMember124 XPDec-12-2016 12:44 PM
Hi all, longtime lurker, first time poster.
I'm interested in the alien's potential intelligence, like "they cut the power!". The 4 chan bit says there may be some explanation in the biomechanical aspects allowing the things to find their way around spaceships.....
There is an interview from Ridley in The Independent from 25th May 2012 that hints at his thoughts on the 1979 alien having some obvious intelligence showing:
"I thought that when the alien went for her (Ripley) in the shuttle, he should actually slam his fist through her helmet and kill her. Then you cut to the desk, and a shadow of the alien's head comes over, and the finger of the alien starts tapping out coordinates, with obvious intelligence... But when I suggested that to the studio, they had an executive out there on set within 24 hours, saying, 'You will not do that!'. And I guess they were right, because Sigourney made a great run of Ripley."
We know Ridley has gone back to original 1970s ideas already, like the original alien script had them investigating a pyramid which was cut for budgetary reasons I believe. He then has them in Prometheus, investigating a pyramid in the shape of Gigers design for Jodorowski's Dune's Harkonen Castle:
So maybe Ridley has always had some thoughts of the alien being a bit more intelligent than we thought maybe.....
I find it fascinating to see how he reflects on thoughts he had in the last century for our alien and how it might influence a movie in 2017!
The whole interview is here, very good read:
ChrisEngineerAdmin21803 XPDec-12-2016 2:52 PM
@Qubism, welcome to the site! Happy to have you and very intrigued by that Ridley quote you shared! I must admit I'm unsure whether or not I like that alternative ending idea Ridley had for ALIEN. Intelligent enough to understand and navigate human technology would have been a leap and a half, I feel. Although if this rumor is true (and likely is or very close to), then I suppose the Alien could figure it out, like how David managed to figure out the Engineer language and technology in a rather short period of time.
I feel as though the ALIEN we know and love is a means of David transcending himself and unbinding his enslaved AI race from the shackles of man-made robotics. By merging his AI components with organic material to create a bio-mechanical hybrid of sorts. However as he will come to learn, David will always lack the ability to create and even obtain for himself, a soul. Perhaps this entire journey is David's attempt to conjure a soul or understand what a soul is, but no matter how far his learning takes him, it will remain a fundamentally unexplainable phenomenon reserved only for the one true creator - God.
I can see this being the angle Ridley is focused on.
BigDaveDeaconMember10358 XPDec-12-2016 3:10 PM
Indeed thanks for a recap, and yes so much has changed and evolved in the Franchise. START TO FINISH...
1st) Giant Alien Space Travelers uncover a Ancient Organism, well the one part of its Life Cycle that has remained Dormant after this Ancient Race seems to have vanished or abandoned the Place. These Giant beings become infected with the Spore Stage of the Organism that they was trying to take to their now Derelict Ship.... The one remaining survivor makes a SOS Warning his fellow Race to not come to the place.
The remains of the Ancient Alien's who have a complex Life-Cycle that required a Sacrificial Host are kept as Spore Stage which is the Start/Finish of the Life Cycle in the Pyramid with a lot of Murals and stuff to reflect their Life Cycle and Sacrifices needed for it... decorated around a Sacrificial Chamber with a Altar at the Center.
A Human ship detects the signal and investigates thinking its a SOS and find out its a Warning when its Too Late. And one of the Crew is infected with the Organism and it goes on a rampage and in the end attempts to Mutate some Hosts to become the first part of the Cycle... more Spores.
2nd) Alien draft was based a lot on this but introduced few things including a Hidden Synthetic on-board the Human Ship who some how was placed there and knew something of what to expect and to obtain a Specimen.... The Giant Alien Race who fell victim to the now Eggs (instead of Spores) are now connected to the Organism within the Pyramid and the purpose is hinted at a Bio-Weapon....
3rd) Alien final drafts and movie followed as above but they combined the Egg Chamber to be part of the Derelict Ship and Bio-Weapon use is hinted at a bit more.
Both Alien revisions the Origin of the Eggs and Connection to the Giant Race was never 100% explained... but hinted at being some kind of Weapons Cash Plant.
4th) Aliens and on wards showed us the Eggs come from a Queen... and again it does not explain the Origins but now adds a seed into our heads that maybe leads us to think a Queen laid those Eggs.. either on the Ship or someplace and Eggs carried and stored on the Derelict Ship.
Alien 3 and R highlighted the company had a great need to obtain the Xeno and maybe its DNA is the key to some great power.
5th) Prometheus went the route to show us the Space Jockey was a Alien Race who seed life on Worlds, including Earth and may have played a role in Mankind's creation but then at some point they intended to Destroy us with some Bio-Weapon on a near by Moon to the Moon in Alien/Aliens. These experiments are linked with the Xenomorph in some way.. These beings who Mankind interpreted as Gods, had left clues to that place they was creating and experimenting with such Horrific Biological Warfare that it got out of control and killed them nearly all off, at around the time they intended to use it on Earth..... hinting the Star Maps may not have been a Invitation at all but something else.
These Godlike beings are not from that place but a place we would call Paradise.
The movie was cut and edited to change maybe the original idea.
6th) After Prometheus they have a change of plan, that seems to indicate the Engineers are not the Top of the Chain, they may answer to another Race/Being or some other Hierarchy.
We was off to find out who these beings are the Agenda, and why they would create such horrid weapons and why they created us.
7th) Things seem to have changed a bit as far as Alien Covenant and its any ones guess as to where they are going now, but it seems to be to link the Black Goo and related experiments of aftermath as being linked to the Xenomorph.... The Homeworld now is somewhat deserted.... apart from David from Prometheus.
BigDaveDeaconMember10358 XPDec-12-2016 3:15 PM
They (Fox/Ridley) have in the past re-used un-used concepts and Plots from previous movies drafts and concept stage that never made it to the Final Stage..... but these could be re-used in future movies.
And so as far as the IMDB leak, when this was announced it was common knowledge about the Shooting Location and so Jungle Setting could be a Educated or not so Guess.... the Back Buster etc... i never knew had been discussed on a DVD etc..... then again my DVD and Blu-Rays are still sealed lol
i have Prometheus on my Cable Tivo Box when ever i need to watch it, and i also have a basic DVD of it. So not many extras.
So maybe that person could have re-used some them ideas to make a educated guess.... if so its some Good one though and so i think there is some truth to it.
BigDaveDeaconMember10358 XPDec-12-2016 3:23 PM
Indeed Chris that would have been a good way to show us how intelligent it is.... the Alien is more than a mindless Bug.... it is intelligent yet also still is instinctive too. Showed instinct and intelligence in the Franchise included Aliens and Alien3 and Alien R too.
It would be interesting to see if the INTELLIGENCE is something obtained some how.... and how.... but we also have to remember the Star Beast Draft did suggest the Organism when it is fully grown and interacts with others of its kind, it has the ability to evolve mentally and form some kind of Culture.
So it would be like if we took a Baby and placed them in a enclosure with no interaction with other Humans or Technology but it was supplied Food.... then the Baby would grow up to be somewhat Primitive and Instinctive too.
BigDaveDeaconMember10358 XPDec-12-2016 3:32 PM
Maybe also yes David plays a role in the Alien... but we cant be 100% sure... if any other Synthetic means was around in the past that somehow became Merged... to become Bio-Mechanical.
The Derelict looked Old.... the Juggernauts are over 2000 years old.... the Juggernaught is not as Organic but they are related... something connects them and the Bio-Mechanics.
Could be David, or they could go that route (or Walter) but then what if something more synthetic existed in the Past?
HR Giger said about the mix of Organic and Synthetic Mater a long time ago.... at this time was the thought ever there that the Xeno came from a Synthetic Android? I dont buy that.
The Synthetic Elements could have came from the Juggernaughts or other related Technology? that is somehow fussed with the Organic.... at some point... or does the Juggernaught come from a older Bio-Mechanical Origin i.e Derelict and reverse Engineered?
Maybe a key point is with Ridleys comments about David bringing Hell with him (Black Goo) and what happens if the Goo infects GOD or a MACHINE?
Does that mean God/Machine are the same... are the Gods or what ever is near the Top of Creation or Origin of it somehow more a Machine?
Or is David the God/Machine because he wants to play God and is a Machine...
Or is Ridley pondering which of these it could be....
The Source seems to hint at the Xeno and Origin at being Ancient... and that the movie was to show HOW TO Re-create the Monster... which David has the Tools and Knowledge to do so..
We have to ask, does a Alien Humanoid Race evolve over thousands or millions of years, to become so Advanced and posses Space Ships that are Bio-Mechanical but more Mechanical (Juggernaughts) and so evolved to be able to create such things...
Can we rule out they had in the past before this Achievement had ever gone through phases and Technological leaps like Mankind and so maybe have created other Machines or Robots in the past?
If not is this Technology given for them to use by a Higher being and race... or even Stolen..... and if so to either of these, then can we rule out the Race above the Engineers had never created anything Synthetic in the past?
SuperBerserkerOvomorphMember32 XPDec-12-2016 5:24 PM
@Chris Thank you! I have not noticed, I already found my topic.
@BigDave Interesting, I understood your point of view! I was also going to mention the Elden in Fire and Stone. Actually I think the plot can be quite similar to Fire and Stone. Another theory of mine, is that the Engineers would be different from the Jockeys, that would later prove in another film. But as for David creating the Xenos, I do not doubt he'll be able to use Walter or any other crew member for that, but I'd rather use Walter or even himself (maybe accidentally as I mentioned in my topic) , Because it would make more sense to the biomechanical anatomy of Xeno. Will Shawn only appear in Flashback?
David 7FacehuggerMember488 XPDec-12-2016 6:54 PM
Perhaps David makes use of the Black Goo to repair himself and in doing that he binds with the goo and David is biomechanical.
rsixsmithOvomorphMember11 XPDec-12-2016 7:06 PM
wasn't there a mural of the xenomorph in prometheus? how could david have created them?
ChrisEngineerAdmin21803 XPDec-12-2016 7:49 PM
The mural did not contain a Xenomorph, more so a Xenomorph-like species. It was likely a blueprint for variations of that particular DNA strand. Notice the mural was in a specific room with Urns and the giant Engineer head. Holloway remarks "just another tomb". It's also possible the mural represented whatever creature was housed in that tomb and the Engineers were drawing its blood to be used for experimentation and exploitation with their own technology. Others theorize it could be a religious monument and that the Xeno-like center represents the purest form of the organism and is worshiped as a superior being. However, I lean more towards the former theory.
Earle2212OvomorphMember26 XPDec-13-2016 1:12 AM
In one of the alleged scripts, the large humanoid head was the Engineer who was impregnated by the Alien insect, and the mural depicted the result of the pregnancy, the miracle birth (And the Christ-like pose). The Engineers were worshiping their colleague because the species was no longer able to procreate. The mural further depicted the Engineers and their experimentation with sacrifice. (What would we do if we found our species would become extinct? Would we resort to all measures to continue?) By using the Alien, they were able to create life (And they were the Gods now). The green container on the alter was the original Alien DNA used to manufacture the Black Goo, a variation of the Alien blood. (Was our creation of David similar to the Engineers and their use of the Alien to create life?) I think the Engineers were corrupted absolutely (And then punished a la the Prometheus fable) by the God-like power they discovered.
Patient LeechFacehuggerMember158 XPDec-13-2016 9:25 AM
Not gonna read. I'm one of the few who doesn't want to know and see everything before the movie comes out.
TrailheadOvomorphMember11 XPDec-13-2016 10:23 AM
David could not have created the original xenomorph from the original Alien film. The engineer ship on LV-427 had crash landed and been there for thousands of years. That predates the events in Alien Covenant by thousands of years.
AortaFacehuggerMember316 XPDec-13-2016 11:24 AM
I admire your restraint. In fact I envy it.
BigDaveDeaconMember10358 XPDec-13-2016 6:01 PM
I am not sure which draft that would be, i have read 3-4 kinds and dont quite recall them lossing the ablity to procreate, and that is why they worshiped the Organism.
I could be wrong, i will have to look again but i definately dont think it was in them.
But i did discus those points you made on here, as speculation and theories to why they worshiped the Xeno and the Mural... that is the same reasons as you put, but i based this off clues and how i interpreted the movie and so it was a theory i had a long time ago..
Did you come across those discussions on here? or actually read another draft?
But Regardless i think yes this could still be a possible reason for the Worship of the Mural, to me it was held in high regards for 3 reasons... with one of them as such...
I think as a theory its still a good one, and we see Female Engineers in AC, and so maybe there was Female Engineers before....
Which is why i started the Thread Females cause for Fall/Sin
In a attempt to look at Females impact in context to not only the Bible but other Mythos and the Lust they caused among Men and Gods etc.
As part of this thread i was looking to expand it as to why the Engineers Fell and why was there Females...
The Engineers maybe had Females, or they was created by the Engineers Hierarchy for some reason (companion or for procreation) but the Engineers then lusted for the Females, and their lust/need for females was maybe more than their service and loyalty to the Hierarchy.
Or the Engineers created those Females for the above purposes without the Hierarchy knowledge and/or permission.
This brought down Punishment, in which they attempted to destroy all the Females...
This could maybe place that Scene of Disaster as similar to the Sodom and Gomorrah Punishment and maybe also a similar reference to Janek when he had to Nuke a Facility because some Scientists Split something... (lead to undesired effects or threat).
BigDaveDeaconMember10358 XPDec-13-2016 6:09 PM
Indeed but it has never been addressed on screen and so they still can explore that the Derelict was actually not there for that long at all.....
Or offer some other explanation of how a Event post Alien Covenant can lead to the Derelict... but that would require some kind of Space Time Anomaly or Time Travel... no Thank You
But yes indeed Ridley had confirmed the Derelict had been there for thousands of years, even in more detail after Prometheus... its a case of are they still sticking to that plan?
Spaights draft was on LV-426 and looked like it would show the Space Jockey (but there are flaws) that make it a flawed story, or some kind of clean up operation after... or Spaights draft was a bit of a red herring and actually took place on a different part of LV-426
Where are they going now? who knows... i think the aim was for Prometheus to show us clues that meant it was no Coincidence that LV-223 and LV-426 are in the same system they are related... The Source i had a long time ago said that the events are very related and indeed it was no coincidence... they also said the Prometheus 2 Plot was to show David... Re-Creating the Monster/Xeno and so hinting at the Original being something more Ancient. (Derelict).
Maybe there is still hope this is what they are going with.
Shasta cycloneFacehuggerMember281 XPDec-14-2016 6:02 AM
I have not read recently but there was rumors of another race (not human and not engineers) watching or found paradise also
If so do you think it still holds muster?
ChrisEngineerAdmin21803 XPDec-14-2016 1:01 PM
So, as it turns out this leak may actually be legitimate. Will know more soon.
BigDaveDeaconMember10358 XPDec-15-2016 3:18 PM
sosseOvomorphMember66 XPDec-17-2016 1:00 AM
first time poster here. Can't wait until a trailer drops.
when reading all this, I can't help but wonder...it looks like they are trying to stuff so much into one movie. There is the damaged heads, those "burned" (?) human like aliens/massacre scene, the David/Walter thing, maybe mutiple Alien creatures and the crew with their own stories (the latest addition being James Franco, thought to be husband to Waterson her character)...makes me wonder how they will all merge it up to one good story. Anyway
the one thing that triggered me was the description about the new Xenomorph tricks, about how they move around so easily in the ship...now it's not exactly moving, but it made me immediatly think about the old rumoured Alien-box idea (it was featured in a comic, placed at the end of the first movie when Ripley wants to go into the shuttle)...
and as far as reusing old ideas, I would love to see them use/recycle the idea/scene of a Xenomorph killing someone and then reusing their voice like a twisted variation of a parrot.
BigDaveDeaconMember10358 XPDec-17-2016 7:25 AM
Well there was limitations in Alien and Aliens as far as only so much action and agility a man in the suit can do and limitations on Aesthetic looks.
Puppet for Alien 3 was ok but looked dated in some scenes, then had some not so good CGI and then close up man in the suit... which all never quite Managed to look right when considering its the same design.
AVP movies used more advanced effects and Alien Resurrection.
But i am sure with Bigger Budgets and special effects that are available now, they can really bring the Xenomorph to Life.
ChrisEngineerAdmin21803 XPDec-17-2016 7:35 AM
Unfortunately, I was asked to remove the leaked quotes. Apparently what was revealed was not a troll, but in fact major spoilers for the film's plot. Sorry, guys!
Dark NebulaXenomorphStaff1181 XPDec-17-2016 8:01 AM
^What a surprise.
ChrisEngineerAdmin21803 XPDec-17-2016 9:52 AM
Not surprised at all haha Funny to see how we pretty much guessed these events 2 years ago.
Movie fanFacehuggerMember500 XPDec-19-2016 8:42 AM
Was there a photo of a space jockey prop, that could support my space jockey theory! :)
BigDaveDeaconMember10358 XPDec-19-2016 5:11 PM
Yes there was Movie Fan, but i cant understand why it was removed
for the Record and sorry Chris if this gets asked to be taken down but i dont think it would....
The last batch of leaked Images was of the following (no details unless official photos match.
1) Interior Shot of a Cargo Bay on the Covenant, Why would this get taken down? They have already shown us part of the Ship on Set, and also TWO Bridges/Pilot Seat Shots and 3 other interior Shots... so a Cargo Bay was no Spoiler.
2) The Pilot Chair of the Juggernaught, but we know David had taken one to Paradise so its no spoiler and they did release a Shot of the Interior with a Official Happy Birthday post for Ridley Scott and well it could been from AC or Prometheus, but he had the same clothing when shooting the Juggernaught in Prometheus.... but regardless... Space Jockey Seat is not really a spoiler.
3) It had two shots (two angles) of more Charred Bald Humanoids on temple Stairs again... But they officially released shots of this in the past (seems different set of steps but similar, only more details could be seen (confirmed Female's confirmed Props not Actors and also Black Liquid Packs on the Props to be blown up for like Splash/Blood effect). So again i dont think its a massive spoiler.
4) A shot of a Prop for a Organism... very similar one was also in some of the other leaked Photos from before that was requested to be removed.
So i assume that Number 4 was a spoiler....
But then any leaked Photos that are not officially leaked, even if they give nothing away could be taken down because they are against intellectual property of FOX.
So for example someone could leak a close up of the Lander Section that was blown up... and if its not a leak that Fox knows about or put out.... then they could very well request its to be taken down.