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Primordial ooze

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Delsin Akando

Dec-22-2013 12:37 PM

Does anyone think the primordial black ooze will have an effect on David and somehow bring about a mergeance with techno-organic components. I do believe part of his assembly has organic components. 

16 Responses to Primordial ooze

cuponator3000

Dec-22-2013 6:15 PM

NOOOOOOO

Not a map, an invitation

Redant

Dec-22-2013 8:34 PM

@Delskin Akando

I think it's safe to indicate that David does not have any organic cells based on organic elements from the periodic table. I think David would be completely synthesized with molecular structures that have no basis on organic cellular biology. 

Too much hydrogen, carbon, nitrogen, and oxygen would cause David’s connected synthetic structures to be vulnerable to environmental factors, i.e.: heat, cold, unneeded respiration, eating, and processing waists. David should be a 100 percent in-organic able to function in the harshest environments.

Although, the black goo as with any other composition of nano machines should be able to do bad things to a non-organic computer. I think this is a cool question by the way. But because of the movies like in the original aliens the Xeno wanted nothing to do with Ash. The Black goo is something that is changing DNA, we all know that. 

I want to say that the black goo has the ability to harm organic based life forms and synthetic ones too; however, in the movies they drew the line for some reason at using black goo technology to kill only organic based creatures on a planet. Xenos have limited ability to control the technology of a planet or destroy it as a means of killing of those worlds inhabitants. 

I really want to discuss this topic further.  Great question!!!

HiveMinded

Dec-23-2013 12:10 AM

Perhaps.

I also choose to believe there were some small organic components...Although there's only a very small chance he can get infected.  The Weyland logo on David's fingertip could be capable of extraordinary things.  Maybe parts of David's brain are weird, like Frankenstein -- the Modern Prometheus, brought to life... But I don't think the goo can bond with him, or get past the fingertip in anyway. Weyland put his stamp on that finger.

The closeup of David's finger in the viral has a design to it, the finger tip might be able to open and close porous openings to suck liquid through. David's fingertip possibly took an actual sample of the black goo, and sucked the goo to the finger. Analyzing the goo and storing a microscopic amount inside the pore-like structure of the finger tip, quarantining it there and connecting it to nerve tissue and nerve endings quarantined within. David got initial data on how it affects tiny samples of human genetics and nerve tissue within, before testing on Holloway's flesh and blood. Storing data about the goo for the company within the finger, which contained nerve endings and could sense the pain like in Weyland's match trick and Lawrence of Arabia. David has only a few real nerve endings in the finger tip, there's nothing to allow it to move to the rest of the body, but trace amounts of nerve tissue are within the finger. The trick won't hurt him physically, but it will hurt Holloway.

When he chose to release the drop into Holloway's drink it was a very calculated amount that the finger could hold onto and then drop. I believe David had to trick Holloway into witnessing and agreeing to the action and not knowing he was doing so. That's a whole other can of worms. The trick for David is not minding that he knows it will hurt Holloway. It's hard for the goo to physically hurt him, although he may be wired to feel emotional pain.  Holloway's body was "only flesh and blood" and nerve endings, nerve endings send signals to the brain.  Pain is only an impulse, it's not real. David's unable to feel physical pain/unable to be infected through the fingertip.

This android almost feels psychological pain, no other android understood emotion to this degree. It was bothered when Weyland said he doesn't have a soul, he has pseudo-emotions. David is more real than we know.. Holloway must agree so that David is allowed to hurt him.  It's like making a deal with Lucifer in the desert and Holloway signed his soul away when he said "anything and everything".  Holloway suspected something was up with David. "Not too close I hope". This head tricks itself into thinking its alive...Holloway forgets David's not a real boy. It feels psychological pain if it lies. David's emotions were hurt when Holloway said he wasn't real.  David selected Holloway because he bothered him earlier.  David was made closer to humans than other androids in the way it feels emotions.

The virals on the bluray are important, especially the Happy Birthday viral. David may not actually feel human emotions, but he may get certain impulses that equate to psychological pain, especially if he lies.  We see him cry in the virals and early trailers. He likes films and gets almost emotional when he watches them. He repeats the trick line because something hurts him. If this android can feel the equivalent of pain in some way, then we may have a problem. The nervous impulses would be isolated to the fingertip, and the brain. We never saw him cry in the movie. In the Happy Bday viral they were testing his mind, and this was the first time he lied. Lying is a sign of children gaining freewill and personality in their early development. Weyland tried to make David's brain the "closest" thing to a real son, gave it emotions, and even allowed it to simulate crying. David eats every so often to keep the nervous tissue in his brain alive, but doesn't sweat like Ash did through the pores. He is forced to intake food, which Ash and Bishop did not. One of our androids is not like the others.

David says "yes" to not being a real boy in a weird way, kinda similar to when he said "oops". Almost a sarcastic tone, like when he said "I didn't know you had it in you". He gets away with lying by using double meanings, feigning ignorance, or being vague and ambiguous...David cannot tell a complete lie, and when he does it has to be shown and then concealed. He was forced to at least make the statement "it wasn't the air" about Holloway's contamination.

Weyland thinks David lacks a soul, but his latest upgrades with David 8 made him too close. That comment will come back to bite Weyland in the ass.  David tricks Holloway, and Weyland, into dying...He was a real boy.  The fingertip is the connection between Lawrence of Arabia, David, and Weyland's match trick. Pain is just nerve endings sending signals to the brain and can be ignored..."It's only flesh and blood".  David can't currently be infected. The ideas surrounding David's evolution as a character could be smaller and larger than flesh and blood.

BigDave

Dec-23-2013 7:53 AM

Well when i orginally saw the early trailers, i did wonder if David would use the Goo to infect himself in the hope of making himself more human, and thus he becomes Bio Mechanical and that his punishment for stealing the Fire was that he gets Face Hugged by Shaws Baby and the result was the Progenitor to the Xeno.

But that was not the case, so as far as the franchise we would have to assume that the Goo does not effect none living/organic material and so David can not be infected with the Goo because David is not living organism.

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

Redant

Dec-23-2013 9:25 AM

@BigDave and Hiveminded

I did see Ash drinking while the face huger is on Kane. Ripley walks in has the discusion. Also Ash is eating with everyone and it is presumed that he consumes food to hide that he is a company android. 

No contention ever! I want to be open to all posisblities. David is also an earlier modle than Ash. David may have needed to consume human food converting it into a hybrid energy with other chemicals. Could be more than one explination to all of this. Maybe than can eat and taste the food too. I could see that David has a complex enough computer to do that because he can anylise things at the atomic or nano level.


I don't ever argue these points out. No fun to act like you know for sure. I could see that David may have organic parts to his brain. This would require him to breath though?? and he tells Dr. Holloway that he does not breath. Dr. Holloway asks him why he is putting on the enviro suit.

That is the problem with these reboots. Our real world technology advances so fast that the Prometheus movie appears after Alien. 

They had all analog devices on the Nostromo, and were watching TV sets as monitors. Not exactly the stuff that is in Prometheus which is supposed to be before Alien. 

Lets keep this discusion going though. Any ideas on this would be greatly appreciated.

 

BigDave

Dec-23-2013 10:42 AM

Yeah but that was the way with a lot of old movies, only really till the early 90s could they in Sci Fi show us Flat Screens and Hollograms or Glass Displays that was not use at the time of filming.

Back in the 70's and 80s they had no way to pretend to have flat screens, some movies tried to create the illusion by having CRTs behind a wall so you could only see the screen so they was made to appear to be flat ... never really took off much till movies in the era of Total Recall in 1990.

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

Anunnaki50

Dec-24-2013 1:04 AM

For some reason I really highly doubt that David will become some "robot god thing" because its too obvious. Hes just a elecronic/mechanical walking android but albiet a hghly advanced one. To me he body is just synthetic inorganic parts but its possible that just like what a organic being like a living being that he can digest his "food". Then use it to lubricate and cushion his artificial joints and artificial muscles. Basically androids like these WY are supposed to mimic us in alot of ways.

The Anunnaki were on the earth in those days--and also afterward--when the sons of God went to the daughters of humans and had children by them. They were the heroes of old, mighty men of high reno

WhatThaEff

Dec-25-2013 1:47 AM

David, I think, would have tried the goo himself if he knew it could affect him. For instance, when he places it on his fingertip he was surprised that it was organic. Almost like, Damnit! I wanted to try it. So he picks Holloway and it kills him. David reminded me of Lucifer a little bit during the film. Also this black goo is on the DVD extras now and they explain what it does. A whole planet is infected by it, Weyland actually did this.. and that Weyland knew what it was prior. Just like they knew about the Aliens in the Alien movies but never admitted to it. 

The Cathlolic symbolism is ripe in this movie. Ridely is using the SCI-FI backdrop as the logical against the supernatural/religious. Ridley dislikes religion to a degree and has said it is the cause of most of the worlds issues..and I happen to agree. All religion is all the same no matter what God or gods you choose to worship. That is what happened to the Engineers. This is what is happening to us. We believe in science yet have others who beleive in a supreme being(s) that created us. The beilief over takes us and we lose control of our central purpose. I think Ridley is trying to say that religion is bad because we misunderstand its purpose. A guideline not a belief structure. 

In the opening scene the Engineer drinks black goo. In Sunday mass in a Catholic Church the priest drinks the blood of Christ(wine) which is referred to as life. Hence the connection there, hence the way his DNA creates life and us. The Engineers may worship the Alien or are trying to warn others of what happens. In Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade they drink water from the cup of Christ. The Nazis pick the wrong cup and are turned to Ash. While Indy picks the right one and is saved and heals Mr.Connery. This is the same premace for Prometheus. The reason the Engineer sacrifices himself because it is a way to carry on his legacy. Seeing as there are no females they must create this way, that is their purpose. We carry on our legacy by having children and grand children etc. Engineers do not. 

Shaws birth was an abomination. Christ was not. Mary had other children Christ was born because she was a virgin, pure. The abomination is the Alien, evil i guess. Shaw was barren and unable to concieve any child. Hence her belief in God along with her mothers death. Yet science cured her but not in a good way. And not human science. The goo has different properites. 

Engineers give life, the Alien is the opposite. There also could be Engineers who did not want us destroyed. See Annukai for this. But in Catholocism, Satan wanted us killed but others did not and so two factions formed and fought wars over us. The Engineers in the beginning looked peaceful and happy but later this one is pissed off. David knows much more than is shown in the movie and a lot of that will be shown in the sequel. He is hiding things from Shaw because he is curious and I think wants to find the weakness in the Engineers. Also, God created Angels and us. When he created us he told the Angels to worship us and the ones who didnt are known as the Fallen i.e. Satan so on..Anyway thats what I thought...lol

Redant

Dec-25-2013 2:42 PM

@WhatThaEff, too many things for me to address in those paragraphs. I was not sure why I was not processing religious symbolism from so many viewings of this film. You could not be more correct on perhaps all of these points. Thanks for the great observations – good reveals. Although now that you have removed the scientific blinds from the film I think I will watch it in a new light.

I must say I do not like to mix my religious beliefs with my scientific ones. For me religion is quite personal and would serve no purpose except for my own necessities. I really like this entire sci-fi
universe that was created almost by accident over 30 years ago. To me the movies are like a different place and time to fantasize about certain possibilities in science. On one level I really never try and filter anything through religious beliefs. It’s one of the last great guilty pleasures we have sort of speak. In so far as God already knows everything.

We look to other things, persons, places, and ideas simply because we are not omnipotent. Viewing these movies is way to see another possible realitys?/unrealitys?. For those who are truly religious they need not watch this film or any other yet somehow there seem to be reasons  why this film and all the others  exist. Are we the opposite of God? Had he made us perfect we would never have needed him or anything like a film. There seems to be an evolution to all of this, us in real life, films that portray newly imagined things, and other hypothetical possibilities.

I honestly believe as well that Ridley wanted to hide, quite successfully, these deeper religious meaning into the film. It’s quite clear now. You have ruined my innocence in a way LOL. I wanted to believe in it as a film with the Xenos only being yet another depiction of scientific discovery and nothing more.

Good and Evil are never that far apart and it is a problem when they are so close together that you cannot separate the two. I would like to find out more exactly how Weyland knew about the Xenos before he went off to this world?  He knew there would be the Engineers there. I am sure had the script been written by another writer we would have had a much different film. I never wanted this film to have the overtly religious overtones that it has. I simply wanted to have a small guilty pleasure without good or evil.  Some would say well there is evolution beyond all religion. Of course that is heresy. A
belief without a creator is much more than atheism; however, Scott and many others could be pointing out that the universe itself is our creator and not the work of one omnipotent being.

He could be using Shaw as a kind of test for this and David as the proof. David comes from us. My clue came from Weyland himself. Weyland says “David has no soul.” This is very powerful because Weyland never affirms if this is truly wrong or right. We know Weyland would never make something that in the outcome of it’s actions would be a more ultimate creation of evil. Weyland would not go out of his way to create evil would he? It is a simple question till you start to ansewer it with what you see in the movies. Do not be so sure to proclaim David’s guilt or innocence, each may be incorrect.

Yet David has no soul meaning he would be the opposite of religion? or free from it?. David could simply be something that is an expression of the universes higher potentials. I am not saying any of this is correct or right. Please infer no literal meaning as to what are my real beliefs here. I am merely pointing out what is in the film already and what is happing in the real world. Are my observations evil or are they good?

Anunnaki50

Dec-27-2013 12:01 AM

@WhatThaEff Did you know that in Near Eastern lore and our stories that the word for Fallen Angels is incorrect big time. First there is no such word for Angel it doesnt exist at all in English, second it only means Emissary/Middleman in Greek. Next you have the word Nefilim, Anakim, Raphaiim, Seraphim, and the word Fallen Angel comes from the word in Sumerian its Anunnaki/Enunna-ki and Hebrew its Nefilim and both words have the same exact meaning.

Nefilim=Those who come down (not giants that only refers to their height)

Anunnaki=Those Who From Heaven to Earth Came

Anakim=Hebrew rendering for the Akkadian/Sumerian word Anaku also stems from the word Anunnaki

Rephaim=also Anakim or the same thing read about King Og of Bashan

Angelos=Greek for Emissary

 

 

The Anunnaki were on the earth in those days--and also afterward--when the sons of God went to the daughters of humans and had children by them. They were the heroes of old, mighty men of high reno

Anunnaki50

Dec-27-2013 12:04 AM

Basically there is no such thing as a Fallen Angel its ALL MISINTERPRETATION AND INCORRECT DICIPHERMENT.

The Anunnaki were on the earth in those days--and also afterward--when the sons of God went to the daughters of humans and had children by them. They were the heroes of old, mighty men of high reno

BigDave

Dec-27-2013 10:26 AM

"But in Catholocism, Satan wanted us killed "

 

Well thats up for debate lol, i guess depends on interpretation and the Bible has many.

 

Anyway not to get into any religious debates...

 

I think as Annunaki50 is saying this movie is trying to tie the idea that all Religons on Earth are a interpretation of some ancient account of god like biengs from the heavens, the Annunaki tale as the oldest recorded one, and some beleave all Religons are interpretations of that account.

Ancient Astronaught theory is that the Anunaki tale is mearly about Alien Race who created us etc....

Seems Ridley is going the route that indeed this is the case and only the Annunaki Tale and all that stem from it are actually based of the Engineers and Elders as far as the universe of Prometheus...

Ridley said the Elders and Engineer at the start was like Angels, and LV 223 Fallen Angels, this is just as far as to fit into the Bible, but basically what he is saying is that these Engineers created us and looked after us but then a fraction of them wanted us corupted and destroyed.

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

Anunnaki50

Dec-28-2013 2:16 AM

Yes you are right and somehow Ridley is at least tying in the story as a major base point but added all of the HR Giger elements and Star Beast together and it makes such great story telling imo.

The Anunnaki were on the earth in those days--and also afterward--when the sons of God went to the daughters of humans and had children by them. They were the heroes of old, mighty men of high reno

BigDave

Dec-28-2013 8:39 AM

Nail on the Head......

 

I think this is the bigger picture Ridley is trying to tell and how the franchise will move away from Alien, i think if people are looking for the Space Jockey to be a Elphantine Creature and see how he got on LV 426 and see how the Xeno fully came to be and see them or other related organisms running around..

 

They will be left disapointed....

I do think at some point we will see the Goo used by David on some of the inhabitants of Paradise and witness a creations of a new breed of Organism that will have connection to the Xeno like the Deacon only more Xeno as it will not be mixed Human Hyrbid like Shaws Baby Trillobite Face Huger was.

As far as traditional Xeno again  there will most likely be suptle clues like more Hieroglyphs and Murals only not as vague, or that David will translate for Shaw... But dont expect to see Xeno runing around, maybe even in Flash Back Scenes.

 

Expect maybe just seeing a Mural like the Orginal Alien one that was never shown in Alien, and Shaw ask what is that... David would go like..

-------------------------------------------------------------

DAVID:  This is a Ancient Organism your Engineers had encounted and went to great lengths to try and harness its Genetics and Produce its off spring.  They worshiped the Organisms Method of Reproduction a mehod Dr Shaw that your Engineers appeared to have lost eons ago.

SHAW: But why

DAVID: Natural Selection, Evolution and Survival of the fittest Dr.... This Organism is well Perfect, you was made in these Engineers Immage, but they found a more perfect lifeform and one they felt was the next Evolutionary step for mankind.

SHAW: Evolutionary Step for Mankind?

DAVID: Yes Dr, they was in the process of trying to Evolve themselves to a higher plane and Mankind was to be the test subjects for this purpose, like how you Humans used to test your medicines and drugs on Guinea Pigs and Apes.  These Engineers was not foolish enough to test this upgrade on themselves untill they got it perfect. And they was not foolish enough to carry out such as task on their Home World.

SHAW: You mean that outpost we flew this ship from...

DAVID: Yes Shaw that is correct, that outpost was no mistake. It was a place these Engineers was going to re-engineer and test various forms of this Life Form in the Aim of Perfection...

 

------------------------------------------------------------------

 

I think a Scene like that would be the kind of clues we would get as far as the Xeno, we may see Murals with Xeno related stuff on, but expect them to still be vague.

We wont see no Xenos, only at the end i think we would see something Xeno related created as a process of David Unleashing Goo on the Engineers/Elders.

He would have seen what happened on LV 223, he would have known about the experiments and he would be intrigged to find out what would happen if these Engineers was upgraded with the Goo at the level they managed to finally get it to...

Thus David the bottom of this Evolutionary ladder, i,e created by Mankind, who was created by Engineers etc. Well he would now want to use the orginal creators as his Guinea Pigs and see exactly what they may have ultimately tried to achieve.

 

So yes something like that could explain the reasons and connections with leaving the Mystery Still.... and its the path i hope they do take.

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

BigDave

Dec-28-2013 9:02 AM

Carrying on with this, and maybe this is better in other recent topic but here it goes.

Alien we found out from the franchise what the Xeno is and does, we did not know about the Space Jockey, Prometheus showed us they was giant humanoids in suits who dabbled with Bio Weapons.

but Prometheus opened up a new world of possibilities, that is not about showing us how these Xenos came to be and what they do...

These Engineers created us, in their immage, for some purpose, and was most likely favorable to us in the past, even visited us and taught us stuff and upgraded us.

We then have to ask and as Ridley Hinted that scene at the start does not have to be Earth, its just how they seed them genetics... So Mankind may not be the only World these Engineers have seeded, they could have done so on many many worlds, maybe each World the result would differ.. (like how many Star Trek Races are Humanoid but different).

So its a case of what other world have they seeded? What other creations have they created...

And as Shaw said... Who Created them... who created these Engineers...?

There is thus so much more scope for a whole new Franchise, and they could also even show Flash Back Scenes of these Engineers interacting with Ancient Man, or even other Humanoid creations on other Worlds..

Yes there would be clues to why LV 223 was made a outpost and some on the connection with the Xeno....  But they could be going a route so that they could explore a new Franchise that is connected with a fraction of Engineers and their other creations in some other far far distant place in the Galaxy or Universe that Mankind would never get any contact with due to the distances and limitations of our Tech as far as Alien universe.

Thus futher movies could explore a new direction of Sci Fi that does not tie into Weyland or Earth or the Xeno.

 

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

Svanya

Jan-01-2014 5:01 PM

@Delsin Akando; Before the movie came out there were tons of theories on this site that the goo would affect David and create the biomechanical Xenomorph we know from the 'Alien' movies. Kinda was bummed that never happened because it was an interesting theory. 

 

 

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