Alien Movie Universe

Plotholes? I think not.

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The1PerfectOrganism

MemberOvomorphNov-05-2013 2:01 PM
To answer some of the so called "plotholes" to begin with unanswered questions and things left up to speculation aren't plotholes. There is only one plothole in Prometheus and it's David's ladder which no-one seemed to gripe about anyway. Plotholes are contradictions within the Plot itself. For instance, one thing that is brought up often. Fitfield and Milburn getting lost. One- They can't use the map as it's connected to the digital map on the Prometheus vessel, which because of the storm outside they couldn't connect to, just like when they talked with Janek they kept cutting out transmission. Two- They had no-where to go so they can't be lost, they only had the option of either going outside (Into instant death)or go round in circles. Another may be the claim that the Black DNA manipulation liquid (BDML) is inconsistent, not true in the beginning it destroys life to create life (The premise of the film and the Alien series) it varies based upon the life-form and method but it's always done the same thing. There are a few inconsistencies such as gloves etc. But no major plot holes that any other film doesn't have, Alien has actually more plot holes than Prometheus. Also you must take into consideration that although it's based in a Science-Fiction setting, the Engineers and the like are very much fantasy. Oh and the DNA match, plenty of creatures on Earth have the same base DNA as us but the fact that the Engineer does that is provably from another planet but the link proves they come from us. And Holloway whenever he takes off his helmet sees the air is breathable, what he doesn't detect is the change in atmosphere it causes (This is why the Engineers wear helmets) releasing the BDML and the storm triggering the horrific events afterwards. If you need anymore questions answered, please reply, I am happy to answer. I feel this is a very underrated film due to people not sitting and thinking for a minute, hopefully in the future people will see this.
Perfect organism. Its structural perfection is matched only by its hostility. I admire its purity. A survivor... unclouded by conscience, remorse, or delusions of morality.
90 Replies

djamelameziane

MemberFacehuggerNov-07-2013 7:37 AM
Exactly Necro its sooo obvious that many of these muddled parts are there because of the bad finish it all got with lindelof then scott trying to add bits at the last minute or simply wanting to do things for cinematic effect for want of a better word. They took there helmets off to create tension in the film and get better shots for RIdley is just one example sacrificing realism - many film do this kind of thing its just when the film is supposed to be real like this one it totally messes it up! Just had a look at that whole getting lost part of the film and I just realised they must have been lost and listening to all the radio conversations for ages and had a 3D map it wasnt just like a few minutes - they had left for like 5 minutes when janek starts to say the storm is coming then you have vickers saying they have 15 minutes before the ships doors are closed all of which mill and fifield would of heard. Sooo obviously not thought through!! They would of worked out in seconds they were going the wrong way even if they were below average intelligence - they clearly state they know which way is east later on after the storm kicks in man its so clear as day anyone denying this needs help! I probably should add my explanation for this : they wanted a way to get them lost to do the snake scene it plain and simple lindelof and ridley wanting that scene and just not being very good at making it come about in a real way - I just hope this new script writer is amazing because if no one else is checking these things and ridley just throws a few more in its going to end up messing up in these areas again. I agree its not the worst scene like the helmet one - god that will go down in history as one of the most almighty f ups ever if part 2 does not give some new reasoning to it :O !

 "It's almost as if they are making it up as they go along" :D

Necronom 4

MemberNeomorphNov-07-2013 7:55 AM
Yeah I agree. They obviously made it this way for the sake of continuity. But Ridley has sacrificed realism to show these idiotic moments. Surely he could have done it a different way. A big part of Ridley's craft and what he is well known for, is making his films as realistic and believable as possible. Instead of having Milburn trying to make friends with the snake, why didn't they make it so he backs away from it, very slowly, while telling Fifield not to run away or make any fast movements. The hammerpede then gets closer and closer as they both back away, and then strikes. That would have been more realistic, while at the same time, sticking to the continuity of the story. But i'll tell ya, the one thing that baffles my brain the most about all this, is the fact that i'm obsessed with a film that frustrates the f**k out of me! It's like I love it and hate it in equal measures LOL

The poster was good though!

 

shambs

MemberOvomorphNov-07-2013 8:43 AM
There is a minor bug related to one of the mercenaries (but is independent of the editing process) and apparently there are a couple of twins [img]http://i1271.photobucket.com/albums/jj636/skybeast3/revelados-extras-el-final-alternativo-prometh-L-UCTHfY_zps683d370e.jpeg[/img] And one of these twins survived during the attack of Fifield [img]http://i1271.photobucket.com/albums/jj636/skybeast3/Vladimir_zps6a891ca6.jpg[/img] [img]http://i1271.photobucket.com/albums/jj636/skybeast3/vladimir4_zps21dde2e7.png[/img] [img]http://i1271.photobucket.com/albums/jj636/skybeast3/vladimir3_zps89e01f21.png[/img] [img]http://i1271.photobucket.com/albums/jj636/skybeast3/Sheppard_zps47bcafa4.jpg[/img] Then ... Where was this guy in the scene with the latest Engineer? or during the kamikaze attack against the Juggernaut? Do we have another survivor for the sequel? :p [img]http://i1271.photobucket.com/albums/jj636/skybeast3/shoot1_zps93a9be77.png[/img] [img]http://i1271.photobucket.com/albums/jj636/skybeast3/w8bJatt_zpsdbfcca52.jpg[/img]

BigDave

MemberDeaconNov-07-2013 9:30 AM
Love the last shot its the only one that creates a good illusion of the Engineer you could be fooled that he is like 9ft plus here... But even so how the angle is and measurements would put Engineer at 8ft this is considering Merc is 6ft, but then Merc pose is bent so takes height off and so take into account that then we get Engineer size of just over 7.5ft lol.

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

BigDave

MemberDeaconNov-07-2013 9:35 AM
As far as the Helmet Scene... Again their readings suggest atmosphere is clean, and breathable and David confirms this and Ford confirms cleaner than Earth Actually. Now Holloway is a different kind of Scientist and he is very excited and in the moment of excitement and having been told Air is Breathable he takes off his Helmet. Shaw causes him a Crazy So and So. Also maybe they should be more cautious as you dont know what kinds of microbes could be airborne etc... and can we trust the crews equipments? As dont forget they detected no hostile microbes or cotangents when they scanned the Engineer head, yet latter detected signs of cell changes and a cotangent thus outbreak.

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

djamelameziane

MemberFacehuggerNov-07-2013 10:22 AM
Helmet scene : exactly - they dont detect the black goo or the green goo on the panel or the alive engineer or the dead one or god knows what else - there could of been traps / security none of which come up on scanners and they only really know whats in that room and a few others at that point - what about around the corner! And almost more importantly they are contaminating the environment even people who are not 'top scientists' (in Ridleys own words) every-day idiots know a find like this you go in sterile and try your damnedest to not contaminate the scene so you know what was already there etc. etc. in the future - you have no idea what your bacteria / viruses etc. would do in that place and to future studies. But yet again the director / lindelof wants to shoot with helmets off to see there breath to make it feel more tense etc. etc. - forget reality and what would actually happen...it goes on and on the list of reasons that just would not happen...just hope they make it more real this time round because I know allot of people that wont go to see it if its not and it could mark the beginning of the end...

 "It's almost as if they are making it up as they go along" :D

The1PerfectOrganism

MemberOvomorphNov-07-2013 10:39 AM
I really didn't like the helmet thing but without it the vases would've never leaked and the story wouldn't work.
Perfect organism. Its structural perfection is matched only by its hostility. I admire its purity. A survivor... unclouded by conscience, remorse, or delusions of morality.

Visionary Alpha

MemberOvomorphNov-07-2013 10:40 AM
David's ladder was not a plothole.

oduodu

MemberXenomorphNov-07-2013 10:58 AM
Op That's a good point - but remember that the room was under pressure - when the door opened it shot out some gas and you could see the through the entire room a cloud of vapour running through as if the atmosphere in the tunnels was reacting with the atmosphere inside the ampule room. I don't think it was their breath - it was the temperature the content of the atmosphere remember that when david opened the door shaw and ford coughed. It wasn't very breath able inside the ampule room . Why ? More than likely because the ampules weren't sealed for transportation yet. The ampule room I believe was where the ampules were filled with broken down xeno virus and I believe the green crystal uses holographic technology to "beam" the virus out of the green crystal into the ampules. Afterwards they are sealed and then the atmosphere can't make them deliver their content. These vases were made to be dropped in the water supplies of a planet and then the water gets infected and all turns into xeno type creatures. So I believe the atmosphere in the ampule room had no oxygen - vapour - water - and was kept under pressure at a lower temperature to ensure that the contents doesn't become reactive. Once they are dropped their safety switch will be disarmed. That's probably why the engineers ran there as they were infected and the atmosphere inside would help slow the infection they had - my theory. So somewhere probably on the jugg one ampule probably wasn't sealed properly and got them infected- perha- nope that's enough.....

Cerulean Blue

MemberFacehuggerNov-07-2013 11:03 AM
I thought that the idea of David being able to read the hieroglyphs was answered when Shaw says, "Can you read what is says?" and David replies, "Perhaps?". So with good ol'David, that could mean anything?

BigDave

MemberDeaconNov-07-2013 11:16 AM
David very most likely could read, his perhaps could have been to throw Shaw etc off, remember David had his own Agenda. So who knows, maybe he could not translate everything but he would have gathered enough information to make a educated guess maybe? Meaning he may have roughly understood what he was doing. @oduodu Well it is interesting as to why they tried to get to that room, but we do not know enough about the lay out of the place, and so it could be that all the Ships are attached to that central area via corridors and these branch off from the center, so these passage ways each lead to a ship. If thats the case they could be running from one ship and trying to get to another in which case they may have had to get to the central room. But again as i dont have a exact map of the temple complex etc i could be just as wrong. In Spaights draft the Engineers was running towards the room where the Terra Forming was going on, i.e where Holloway took his Helmet off and these Engineers was trying to jump down that Well/Hole in order to commit suicide so they do not fall foul to the infection. Again we cant use everything in that draft to use as canon and the explanations to Prometheus.

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

Gimm-e

MemberOvomorphNov-07-2013 11:46 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=maOhqZUNldk @Necronom 4. totally agree! 'Prometheus, if you're watching this FREAKSHOW, we are taking our helmets off. ;) @The1perfect organism I can see you took the trouble to read my topic. Thanks! As for Colonial Marines...I got bored after an hour playing the storyline. I really wanted to play as an alien in multiplayer. And as for Hick's return, pfff...don't know what to think, man. Gearbox and Randy Pitchfraud lied to us, showing a different trailer than the final product...they ffed up, and Prometheus didn't do the franchise much good either.
You don\\\'t see them fucking each other over for a goddamn percentage!

oduodu

MemberXenomorphNov-07-2013 1:03 PM
Bigdave Yep. Certainly the ideas cannot be used as it is not established in the movie and we don't know what the fanbase would agree upon - therefore I can only show what the original intention was and that even lindelofs draft things weren't as ambiguous as this . Op Please read the spaihts and lindeloff drafts you'l see the only time outside of the ship they removed their helmets was on the juggernaut because it had an atmosphere and david informed them that the infection that got to holloway wasn't airborne. Then tou will see to how much trouble ridley fox brandywine (?????) Went to ensure that things pertinently didn't make sense and from the starbeast script it seems an unused idea when brousard takes of his helmet/mask after seeing the air was breath able. I implore you to so !!!!! You gonna save yourself a lot of trouble !!!! What was that ??? Albert einstein and me has something in common - poor grammar and spelling ???? LMFAO !!!!!!

oduodu

MemberXenomorphNov-07-2013 1:14 PM
Bigdave But that is interesting though. Did the engineers run there to get broken up into the virus. Perhaps they went there as there may have been some of the original goo the sacrificail engineer drank and thereby committing suicide ???

Necronom 4

MemberNeomorphNov-07-2013 2:40 PM
@Gimm-e; Nice song bro! Look at this: [url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-x1YuvUQFJ0]Click Here[/url] I've watched it about 6 times now. I find it highly amusing! You've probably seen it though.

The poster was good though!

 

shambs

MemberOvomorphNov-07-2013 3:21 PM
[quote]I really didn't like the helmet thing but without it the vases would've never leaked and the story wouldn't work. [/quote] Not exactly the same, but I guess it's not much different from the first movie when Kane (and the Facehugger) returns to the ship, without that we have no monster on board.

Necronom 4

MemberNeomorphNov-07-2013 3:29 PM
Shambs; Kane didn't take his helmet off

The poster was good though!

 

Anunnaki50

MemberOvomorphNov-07-2013 4:53 PM
Ahemm.....

The Anunnaki were on the earth in those days--and also afterward--when the sons of God went to the daughters of humans and had children by them. They were the heroes of old, mighty men of high reno

BigDave

MemberDeaconNov-07-2013 5:07 PM
@oduodu Guess we will never know, its like i have said the Drafts give more insight and sometimes like with deleted scenes that explain or help us to interpret clues better.. Do we only go by what we see in the movie and have to scrap every bit of information from the drafts etc... Maybe the easiest explanation is the best, and that is as maybe there is a central part of the Temple which the Ampule room is part of, maybe this central area has branches of tunnels going to it and some of these each lead to a different ship bay and the other leads to the entrance to the caves etc. Then if they was running from something they would try to get to the ampule room because they could then maybe seal the place from within? These raises questions through and holes, as well surely they may have sealed it or if it was sealed then how did David open it from outside and if he could then surely other Engineers could who get locked out. Also if the basis is they was all infected then why did they want to get to that room, maybe getting to that room and then from there to the Juggernauts they are able to somehow prevent or slow down the infection, for example in Cryo Sleep. Maybe the Chest Bust Cryo Pods are just the Goo exploding from within...? Maybe the Last Engineer got to his chamber fastest and thus his infection was in early stages before he could have put stop to it. This would explain why he went postal and then went to carry on the mission knowing he is infected.. But again this poses a hole, as surely that would mean the Pilot Seat would contain or slow down the infection, because if not then we see it must not have been days for the outbreak to finish off those Engineers, maybe not even hours or even a hour. While we can assume at early stage of infection getting into Cryo Sleep may prevent rate of infection, surely flying the ship in Space Jockey suit would not? Well not long enough to reach Earth.... Which logically means the Last Engineer must have escaped the infection and outbreak.

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

mirobot

MemberOvomorphNov-07-2013 6:15 PM
Or the last enigeer caused the outbreak, came there to kill them all and take out earth, maybe with others, maybe with his 'pets'.

shambs

MemberOvomorphNov-07-2013 6:21 PM
Necronom 4, I know that ... but Im just saying common sense tells us that Kane should never return to the ship, but without that act Where is the Alien? Also people complain about everything related to the scientist, but Prometheus is not a hard science fiction film (with ancient astronauts?), neither was Alien. Alien was a horror masterpiece, but not a masterpiece of hard science fiction.

shambs

MemberOvomorphNov-07-2013 6:26 PM
And in Prometheus we have the issue of the outbreak, someone has to screw it up because without this, the story doesn't work ... or at least not with this new threat. With a threat of another kind who knows.

mirobot

MemberOvomorphNov-07-2013 6:31 PM
Just on the twins? Androids? Could see Weyland using them as they are loyal to him/the company. I guess it feeds my fantasy of a mission within the mission.

Gimm-e

MemberOvomorphNov-07-2013 7:42 PM
@Necronom 4, Yeah, I've seen that allright. You should also check out his videos about the star wars prequels. Those things were hilarious. :D The guys face on the right says it all really.
You don\\\'t see them fucking each other over for a goddamn percentage!

shambs

MemberOvomorphNov-07-2013 7:52 PM
@mirobot, I think that is a mistake in editing and also a flaw in the script (because in any case we could not see when one of them dies, even with the correct edition)

Determinism

MemberOvomorphApr-30-2016 12:41 AM

I've seen the flick at least 50 times. At first I was only unamused by the religious rhetoric which is entirely unappreciated. By more and more, the 'plotholes' become credible I have to admit. The screenplay does not deliver clear motive or plausible ones that can be deduced from character dialogue. 1. Evolution is a fact so the idea that Engineers seeded Earth or that their DNA matches ours is preposterous. WE evolved from hominids going back several million years. This is indisputable. Those creatures evolved from still more going back hundreds of millions of years. How could a species seed an entire planet that it evolved on? Therefore, the second our DNA matches theirs in the movie, almost all possibilities collapse.  It could only make sense if the Engineers themselves evolved on Earth and left without a trace of a previous industrial revolution. Theres more to this theory but first Id like to debunk a fan theory that if carried out in the new film; I will cease being a fan or watching the film. That is the 'Jesus was an Engineer and when we killed him they got angry and decided to depopulate Earth' theory. This can be disproven easily. Jesus died approx. 30AD. The dead Engineer dated 2000 years old in the movie and it was stated in the beginning of the movie that the current year is 2091. So apparently we're to believe that 61 years after Jesus was killed, the Engineers finally prepare to depopulate Earth, perhaps just getting wind of that? It just doesn't follow, especially since their low tech human ship took 2 years to get to the planet. Why would the Engineers delay their attack over 60 years? They'd of done it in the first few years for sure. 60 is way too late, why not make it 600? 

The truth is, the film never gives indisputable evidence for the Engineers to have malice towards Earth. It's only guessed at by characters who themselves have no idea whats going on. So they were headed to Earth, so what? So they bio-weapons, so what? So one of them got angry when awoken from a 2000 year hypersleep, I'd be angry too. 

The plot of the new movie could easily put everyone to shame by showing that the Engineers, having evolved on Earth to the point of being able to genetically modify their own DNA had a civil war in which most the human race chose to go back to primitive ways and a portion of the human race chose to go starfaring as Ubermensch. There is no evidence on what the Engineers used the blackgoo for. There is no reason to assume they are not benevolent towards other hominids though the goo stuff has started a lot of trouble. Personally, I like my plot better because it makes more sense and doesnt ignore Evolution. The problem with Prometheous is the screenwriter. The director and actors were gold. The visuals and props were gold. The writer should be fired from ever writing a screenplay again. 

Determinism

MemberOvomorphApr-30-2016 1:46 AM

Honestly, after years of rewatching this film. I maintain that the Engineers are good; or that any bad ones were a rebel Engineer group. The writer took a plot with awesome potential and completely ruined it by adding Christian overtones, ridiculous dialogue, and trying to be too clever or dramatic. As if written by a teen. Other things Ive grown to despise about Prometheous: Lost mapmakers, mohawk zombie, no boobs, FTL spacecraft travel (get real this is Science Fiction not Physics Fiction) no boobs again, religious bullcrap, young guy cast as a 100 year old man, running in straight-line, curiously stumbling upon the alien base that just happened to be vitally significant when it's obviously a tiny facility on a huge moon...and so much more. What made the movie rewatchable? Michael Fassbender and Naomi's alien abortion scene. That Idres Captain guy too is the bomb. I give up on sci fi though. They dissapoint everytime. Interstellar, which I love, is just as bad. New StarWars (SJW propaganda) and Startrek (overdone) arent even remotely engaging. The Martian was garbage...needed an alien, not fecal potatoes. They all blow. And all we have is retarded comic book movies.  I learned my lesson after blowing money to see Spectre aand Starwars 7...I skipped Batman vs Superman. I was right, another cash grab digital bashup with no real artistic writer or philosophy. Wanna see a good film, watch Solaris from 2002 or Under the Skin and contemplate the trouble that anthrpomorphication has had on our species. 

BigDave

MemberDeaconApr-30-2016 5:10 PM

"1. Evolution is a fact so the idea that Engineers seeded Earth or that their DNA matches ours is preposterous"

 

Well its logical about Evolution but maybe not 100% proven, but it certainly holds the most logical theory... compared to the creation Story especially Biblical One.

 

But we have to remember the movie is Sci-Fi where it can change Facts, its not trying to suggest in OUR Reality that Evolution did not create us as per Darwinism,  because the movie is also showing is it links to Xenomorph Aliens that well dont exist... (but we cant rule out life in the Galaxy).

 

 

"That is the 'Jesus was an Engineer and when we killed him they got angry and decided to depopulate Earth' theory. This can be disproven easily. Jesus died approx. 30AD. The dead Engineer dated 2000 years old"

 

If this is a way to disprove Engineers in Creation it also disprove Darwinism because if Jesus was real, then he is God incarnate and so Biblical account stands.....  But yes it could be that Jesus was a actual human, but if so surely his existence and connection to God is not just something made up.....  (thats if we assume Jesus was real).

 

"Why would the Engineers delay their attack over 60 years? They'd of done it in the first few years for sure."

 

This point is a great one, its one of the unknowns and a Question Shaw would want to know about....... Maybe all the Engineers are Gone.... maybe those that are left decide to just leave us to destroy ourselves or maybe a Covenant was reached that they agreed to not continue with our destruction.

 

You raise interesting points as yes the Engineers may not have been Malevolent towards us, the deleted scenes seem to show a more Benevolence to them.... but something had happened where to a Faction or the Whole Race... we had done or become something that went against their intentions and so we had to go.

 

Bit like how Terminator be like Mankind realised the Advancement of AI is getting out of hand and a Potential Terminator situation would happen.... So the Engineers may be doing, what John Connor was doing in the Terminator 3 Plot.... to stop Skynet before it got out of hands and the Rise of the Machines.

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

BigDave

MemberDeaconApr-30-2016 5:16 PM

Thats not to have a pick at your post.. as i know those comments i highlighted  all led to the other part where you propose that Engineers Evolved on Earth.... This could work... but how would one set be more Advanced?  Unless Evolution happened with us at a much early time  and maybe Humans Created Engineers?  or what ever.... but a conflict happened and Engineers departed...  and left us Maybe a Covenant?

Or what if Engineers where Humans... Advanced, and one group set off to Seed a New World as they felt we was going to destroy ours and eventually this happened... but some survived....  but Humans who went to Space, somehow Evolved differently to adapt to a new Environment or came across something that helped them Evolve?

Its a Twist.... and maybe they found out Earth recovered....  but another War or Event left the Engineers or a Faction having o find a new Home and so they decide they want to go back to Earth... tried to get along but that never worked out and so they decided to destroy us?

 

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

BigDave

MemberDeaconApr-30-2016 5:26 PM

Your last Post Determinism, yes Spot on... the Potential was huge and a bit wasted..

As far as Engineers being Good.... i think they are neither Good or Evil, and how Benevolent or Malevolent they are depends which way they are seen...  Is Mankind on the whole Malevolent?  But then compared to how we look at and treat Chickens then we could be (to the Chicken)... if a Alien Race came to Earth and saw us as a Food Source then would that make them Malevolent?

Oh but we are not Chickens..... but who is to not say that a Alien Race could be so more Advanced that we can’t comprehend and to them we are not even at Ape Level.

I don’t think every Engineer or their Creators in the Galaxy are just Evil Big Bald Dudes who just create life for the fun of it, and then want to create something else for no Reason..

They cant be like a Kid playing with Lego and building and destroying Random creations... there has to be a reason... and so even if  maybe the Kid would like to keep his creations but he does not have enough Blocks to build more, or maybe the creation is not perfect and he has found a way to improve it and so some of his creations have to be completely dismantled or in part dismantled to Evolve it or Create something new.

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

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