Is Dr Shaw the first alien queen?

akvnr

She checks everything. Her uterus is the alien egg, when it got out of her it turned into a bodyhugger and was capable of infecting a really big pray.

After David successfully got her dna(?) he could make even more and more precise eggs so that checks out too.

Xenotaris

maybe

Thoughts_Dreams

That's kind of interesting, who's to say that an alien-queen has to be what we saw in Aliens? With the black goo it can take different turns. At least it makes Shaw being useful for something. :D

Stick around, it's fun to have new members here.

Xenotaris

I'm pretty sure that ALIENS established the whole QUEEN CASTE because WITHOUT the movie ALIENS, there would be NO QUEEN.

akvnr

Thoughts_Dreams (i hope this is how i reply to someone). Thank you for your kind words!

I don't yet know many things about the og movies, but i have some theories how Dr Shaw -as David said- was the perfect specimen:)

Svanya

That's what I always understood her to be, but as more of a prototype than an actual queen. There were a few threads on the subject way back when Alien Covenant was released. 

BigDave

It would seem that YES our Dr Shaw is the FIRST QUEEN... but NOT a Traditional Queen from ALIENS.... if RS had continued we may have seen a Humanoid Queen Element taken to another STAGE... but we would STILL not arrive at the JC version from ALIENS... which is LIKELY to had been a Evolution/Mutation.

Xenotaris

Well current canon over seen by Andrew E. C. Gaska rendered the Planet 4 xenomorph as its own linage separate from the baseline xenomorph as in David just merely based his praetomorph on actual engineer created xenomorphs. So David's praetomorph queen will not be directed related to the actual Xenomorph Queen

lisam

Yes!

Xenotaris

After reading more into the Alien RPG, I now like to think of the xenomorphs as being an ancient organism rather than a recent creation

BigDave

It would seem that the PLAN by Ridley Scott was that David had Created the Xenomorph but as this HAD NOT gone down well.... It left it OPEN to be Explored in another way.

This makes a Complete MESS of the Franchise in trying to UNDO what Alien Covenant had Shown....   I have NOT gone and Read the RPG or its Material.

The ONLY WAY to make Sense of it all NOW would be that the Engineers had Encountered something they had NOT Created, and that they had seen this Organism as having some TRAITS that would be USEFUL to Create the PERFECT ORGANISM.... and they Began Experiments which lead to the DEACON.

David had then worked this OUT and either (A) had Attempted to Harness the Genetics/DNA of the more PURE FORM that the Engineers Deacon had came from to Create his OWN Variant of the more Ancient Organism. or (B)  that Experiments with DNA of the Deacon and other Related Organisms contained the Genetic Makeup of the Xenomorph and would Eventually become Refined on its own to Revert back to Closer to the Xenomorph.

In Order to make this FIT more in with Supporting Evidence it would be IDEAL to then Indicate that the Derelict had been on LV-426 for Hundreds of Years or even just Decades before the LV-223 Experiments to Create the Deacons...

A U-Turn on what had been indicated by RS Comments at the Time of Prometheus which was that the events of the Outbreak on LV-223 had resulted in something that Evolved to those Eggs on the Derelict some Few Hundred years after.

This was changed to possibly indicate that at some point within the Next 10 Years after the events of ALIEN COVENANT would see HOW/WHEN/WHY those Eggs got onto the Derelict but their Origins would have came from the Experiments that David had Conducted on Planet 4.

But the Consensus seems that MOST of the Fans prefer that the Xenomorph is something that has been around prior to Prometheus, and it would seem that Disney would likely be ON BOARD with the same Concept.

And Hence the OPTION A or B i had mentioned above would be ideal ways to TIDY UP the Loose Ends.

BigDave

All this MESS had came about due to Reaction  by the Powers that be to some of the Negativity of Prometheus (lack of Answers to the Xenomorph or having anything like it on Screen) and the Growing Interest in Blomkamps Alien V....

which then led to the Xenomorph being FORCED into the Plot and a Re-Working of what was Originally being worked on in 2014... to what became the Summer 2015 Drafts that became our Alien Covenant. We may NEVER see the Light of Day of any of the Work by Paglen and Green.... but it would seem it would NOT have been like Alien Covenant..... certainly as FAR as seeing Xenomorphs.

Xenotaris

It good to see you again Big Dave

BigDave

Cheers Xenotaris....

I will be making some Topics maybe to Debate some things that are Abandoned within the Franchise, i feel the Prequels will NOT get any Closure and will be Removed from Canon.

Xenotaris

That would be sad because I liked the prequels especially Prometheus

BigDave

Taking on ANY kind of Origins Story has a RISK.....

Ridley Scott came to the Conclusion that if the Xenomorph was something the Engineers were Responsible for Creating, then ONCE you have show that THIS is HOW they Created them and WHY and then THIS is HOW they got onto the Derelict and WHEN...

Its then WHERE NEXT?    ALIEN PREQUEL 2 with more Xenomorphs where you have to then be CAREFUL as to NOT go and Conflict ALIEN... by that we could as of 2010 just Assume or be Shown the Engineers are the Reason those Eggs got to the Derelict when a SHIP with those Eggs on had Crashed like Thousands of Years ago or Hundreds... and so then you have to be CAREFUL in what kind of Movie are you going to SET between the First Prequel thats say 30 Years before ALIEN...  where does a Second Sequel come? 20 Years, 10 Years before?

As if the First Prequel had indicated to HOW/WHEN/WHY the Xenomorphs got onto the Derelict... with more Xenos on Screen, then the Next Movie what do you do? We do have the MYSTERY of HOW MUCH did the Company know before ALIEN.. as Special Order 937 Indicated the Company had some Knowledge of what to Expect.

But Ridley Scott had become drawn to more about the Mystery of WHO are the Creators of such a Horrific Monster... by giving us the Engineers as the Space Jockey and that they are a Ancient Race of Creators this OPENED UP the Franchise to be about more than just the XENOMORPH... the Franchise was Contained within a 50LY of Earth.... with the Engineers Plot the Franchise would be OPEN to Beyond even our Galaxy.

The PROBLEM was that some Fans would Expect that a Prequel would and SHOULD have given or Lead to us KNOWING as to WHEN/HOW/WHY those EGGS had ended up on LV-426 and the Derelict..... and also that there was NOTHING that was Quite as Relatable to the Xenomorph in Prometheus...

This combined with the Fan Interest and Excitement for Blomkamps Alien V seemed to make FOX decide that the NEXT MOVIE should have Xenomorphs and Begin to TAKE US to the HOW/WHEN/WHY in Future Movies.

Alien Covenant did-not make a Good Enough Return on its Investment and it also was something that had UPSET a lot of Fans (David Created the Xenomorph) that FOX was in a Pickle as to HOW to Continue.... then we had the DISNEY Take Over and it seems any Interest in the Prequels has GONE.

In HINDSIGHT.... the Mysteries left by ALIEN should have been LEFT as such.

Xenotaris

I blame AVP 04 for the reason why Scott and Cameron's ALIEN V wasn't made

BigDave

Yeah that kind of PUT OFF our Ridley Scott.... it was Reported that both Scott and Cameron would have Collaborated on a Alien V before 2003.

They both had IDEAS about what to do with a ALIENS Sequel before ALIEN 3 came out, and BOTH of their Ideas were Different.  With Cameron wanting to go to a Xenomorph Home-World were we would see them as some Invasive Species and maybe he would have had them more Advanced than we have seen, but the Idea seem to be that the Xenomorphs came from some World and well this would mean the SPACE JOCKEY would have merely Discovered some Eggs and was Attempting to Transport them... but we CANT be sure if Cameron would have touched upon the SPACE JOCKEY. But his Idea seemed to be that the Xenomorphs are NOT a Engineered Weapon.

While Ridley Scott who before ALIENS had wanted to Explore the Xenomorph as a more Sinister and Intelligent Organism.... had after ALIENS wanted to Instead go and Focus on them being a Engineered/Created Bio-Weapon and to Explore the Space Jockey and their AGENDA more.

Xenotaris

I try to combine scotts and cameron's visions in my fanfictions