I thought i would make a Topic Regarding the Exploration of the Galaxy in Context to the ALIEN Franchise.. Particularity the Movies.
There is a Pretty Big Galaxy that we have Barely Scratched the Surface of. And the Franchise seemed to be Confined to within 50LY from Earth. (in terms of the Movies).
Worlds that have BEEN shown in the Franchise:
LV-426: The Moon of Calpamos that introduced us to the Franchise which the First Two Movies centered on.
LV-223: Another Moon of Calpamos that introduced us to the Engineers in the First Prequel.
Both Worlds are located about 39 Light Years from Earth.
Planet 4: One of the Engineers Home-Worlds that was introduced to us in the Second Prequel. This World appears to be Located within the Reticulum Constellation, and Appears to be Close to the Zeta Reticuli Systems. And while Stars within a Constellation that appear NEAR by could actually be FAR apart, by Virtue of the Covenant taking less than a Year to Reach Planet 4 i think we can Assume this World lies within 50 Light Years of Earth.
Worlds that have YET to be shown in the Franchise:
Origae-6: The Destination of the Covenant Mission prior to Intercepting a Transmission from Planet 4. This World is the likely Destination for a Sequel to Alien Covenant and what we can gather from Alien Covenant is that this World is likely to be about 350 Light Years from Earth. (Give or Take +/- 25 Years).
Arcturus: Is the likely System that the Arcturians are from. Located just under 37 Light Years from Earth.
As we have seen or been Told in the Movies, we have encountered TWO other Intelligent Species for Certain, that is the Engineers and Arcturians.
However it seems that Mankind has Encounter other Life-Forms out in the Galaxy that are not classed as Intelligent.
Then we have also Encountered the Xenomorph and Horrors that can be Created from the Experiments on LV-223 and Black Goo.
Who knows HOW FAR we (Mankind) have Traveled within the Franchise, as Each Generation of Movie we have Faster Ships. The Engineers Plot does show us that we are FAR from ALONE!
With Plenty of Encounters and Horrors to be Discovered....
The ALIEN Franchise does-not have to be Restricted to a 50 Light Year Radius from Earth.
R.I.P Sox 01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017
Think deep-range Explorer ships...massive, with crews that cycle through hypersleep and fitted with fast hyperdrives.
IN SPACE THERE IS NO WARNING
Someone wrote that it was likely we would not meet with beings but probably meet them via their technology. Technology via synthetics carrying biological samples sounds like a sensible way to go.
I think thats a Interesting Thing to bring up..... which Raised by Wolves comes to Mind....
Imagine if you had Programed Androids to MAN a Mission to a Distant World, that would take Hundreds of Years... their MISSION is to ENSURE the Survival of the Human Race, and the Humans would be Stored as Cryogenic Frozen Embryo's
WHAT HAPPENS..... if this Said World when they Arrive already HAS some Intelligent Species that LIVE in a way that is Ancient so say its 2300 when the Androids Reach this World, but the BEINGS on this Planet are Thousands of Years behind us Technologically.
The Androids have NO real Programing to Deal with this Discovery as the Humans who Programed them ASSUMED that there is NO LIFE out there like us and the Planet would be Earth like but Baron of Civilization.
What would the Androids Main Protocol to Ensure the Survival of the Humans make of this Discovery?
Like in RBW they realize that Conflict on Earth between different Religions and Ideas and such lead to the DOWNFALL of Mankind... And so they could Determine there would be NO WAY that the Human Embryo's could be Raised in a WAY to Ensure a Peaceful New Eden and GET ON with the Natives....
Would the A.I then have to Conclude.... "sometimes to create, one must FIRST Destroy"
Its a Interesting thing to Ponder.... if say there was a ALIEN Species who are Escaping their Dying World and have Invested a LOT in a SINGLE Mission to SAVE their Species... Hundreds of Years this Mission comes to Earth and Discovers that its Already Populated....
Its TOO LATE to Find some other Place... Impossible... and the A.I of this SHIP had ONE Priority to Re-Populate the Species that Created them.....
Things would NOT look Good for Humanity ;)
And to be Honest..... prior to the Prequels i GUESS that they could have GONE for THIS exact Plot as FAR as the Space Jockey.... some kind of Enslaved Bio-Mechanical A.I that was Tasked with Finding a New World for the Starbeast.... But ALAS!
R.I.P Sox 01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017
In Regards to the OT i was looking at HOW the ALIEN Franchise does-not have to be Confined to a 50LY from Earth and about the Xenomorph from LV-426.
There is a LOT of other things the Franchise could look at, it comes down to getting People to LOOK beyond ALIEN having to mean Xenomorph.
You could branch off with Spin Offs... even with TV Shows.
For example the Arcturians we know that Mankind has interacted with this Species who must be somewhat Humanoid?
Are they a Creation by the Engineers too?
If the Franchise just CANT steer away from the Xenomorph, then maybe you can give a FEW Different Variations of it.
If we look at the Black Goo on those Juggernauts, or the Eggs on the Derelict.... Are we going to Assume the ONLY ones that have done any Damage are the Ill Fated Space Jockeys Mission and Davids Bombardment of Planet 4?
So with a Vast amount of Space to be Explored and Engineers Ships that can Traverse Great Distances there is always the Chance of EVENTUALLY turning up at a World that has seen the Deployment of the Black Goo, or Eggs before.
Planet 4, LV-223 and LV-426 surely CANT be the only Place that such Horrors had been Restricted too ;)
Yes its likely Origae-6 could become another such Place... but there could be OTHER Worlds where these Horrors had become UNLEASHED!
Then there could be other Threats/Horrors that are NOT related to the Engineers or those Experiments on LV-223.
There could be other Races than just the Engineers, or even more Engineers.
There are so MANY other Avenues for a ALIEN Movie or Spin Off Franchise.... there is NO reason to go and Re-Write anything or give us Reboots and have others be merely Cryo-Dreams!
The Foundations for the ALIEN Franchise have been Expanded with Prometheus.... we dont have to be Stuck around Zeta 2 Reticuli
R.I.P Sox 01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017
I think Big Dave should write an encyclopaedia of all this stuff in the Alien worlds. Maybe some Choose Your Own Adventure type books with all his plot ideas wouldn't go astray either.
He has the knowledge and ability for sure. It would be great to see just a few paragraphs of a story.
Cheers Guys ;)
There has been a few Encyclopaedia on the Franchise included a Few Professional Ones, they are somewhat incomplete because we have YET to have a Conclusion.
Most of my stuff is purely to Speculate on HOW to Expand/Explore certain things that have not been Explored in Depth or Answered yet.
Regarding the OT then i think there is so much Potential to Explore things BEYOND what we have as far as Ripley, Xenomorph and LV-426 which is what the Original Franchise had been about.
I think we have been shown enough Evidence to LINK that the Xenomorph is Connected to the LV-223 Outpost and Experiments there with the Black Goo.
Is this the ONLY place the Engineers have Conducted and Stored such Horrors that relate to the Black Goo, the Mural and the Xenomorph?
Even IF we take that as YES... then we can ASK.... are LV-426, Planet 4 and Potentially Origae-6 the ONLY places where such Horrors had left LV-223?
Even IF we take those as YES... and we take out LV-223 (dont go there again) then you can still ASK.... where did the Black Goo come from? Why did it Create such Horrors on LV-223 what was the Basis for such Horrors to come about?
All of these could take us to some place where we have something that is ALIEN as far as Connected to ALIEN.
But then we have the SCOPE of Many Worlds that the Engineers had Seeded and where they have also Colonies, Worlds that would have other Life-Forms that are NOT in anyway Connected to the Xenomorph and LV-223 Horrors.
Then we could also Wonder about what Worlds, Life-Forms or Intelligent Species are there in the Galaxy that the Engineers had NO input in their Creation and Evolution.
So there is PLENTY of Millage with the Franchise if you look at it. You dont have to Revolve i around the Eggs on LV-426 or indeed the Horrors on LV-223 but its a case of EXPLORING anything thats Not Connected may for some simply NOT be Considered a ALIEN Franchise Movie.
You can be Brave, try something Different and Release the Shackles of LV-426 but it seems maybe for some that is RISKY and its case of as DK had Mentioned on another Post.... the WELL of Ideas seems to have Dried Up. But thats ONLY the Limits of LV-426, Eggs and Ripley.
I think there are Numerous Stories we can Continue with or Expand upon... EVEN within the confines of LV-223/LV-426 because its Unlikely that all Avenues from these Places Ran Dry with Planet 4, Oriagae-6 and the Ill Fated Missions/Objectives of the USCSS Nostromo, USCSS Sulaco, USCSS Patna and USM Auriga (Theatrically). Even if we Ignore LV-223/426 and yet we want to ONLY explore something Connected to ALIEN then i think we SHOULD NOT just Assume that the Horrors of LV-426/223 have all been Explored and YET to with Origae-6.
*Was the Derelict the ONLY such Ship to be loaded with Eggs?
*Was Planet 4 the ONLY such World that had been Bombarded with the Bio-Weapon/Pathogen?
R.I.P Sox 01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017
You have a point here, that is why I like the addition of the Engineers. Eventually there could be different Engineers or at least variations of them both in how they look (just like some some people have curly hair while some people don't) and how they live. The Arcturians were mentioned in Aliens but we have never seen them in any movie so there's potential there. Maybe they could introduce another sort of life-form or civilization that they could at least have in books. Eventually you could have different civilizations that are involved in an arms race where the Xeno could play a small role, just to link them together, it doesn't mean that it has got to be the focus.
It would be like Xeno --> colony (aliens) arcturians get mentioned, who are they? --> a movie or book about the arcturians, maybe they have been to other planets so you could write about that. They would be spin-offs but I think that you need something that ties them together, what ever that might be and also don't put a lot of contradicting stuff in it. Just show that it's in the alien-universe so people don't get confused like some might have been with Lindelof when he said something like "is this an alien movie?" bla bla bla. Have it in the alien universe but be honest and say that's the case if so otherwise it's annoying.
Coming up with new planets is something that I think that prequels did right, so you could open up the franchise a little. Who knows what those planets might have?
Prometheus for all its faults opened up for new things by having the Engineers. Maybe there's a possibility to add even more life-forms? The central thing to tie them all together should be the human experience and terror, but other than that there could be other things added to it.
Maybe there's a possibility to go back to old books to find inspiration and see that there's a possibility to make new worlds, and lifeforms. There have been famous authors that have dealt with things like that. Not to say that you should copy them but it's possible to find inspiration and to alienize that.
At the same time maybe they need to have a story group or what ever that makes sure that it doesn’t turn into chaos and a lot of contradictory things at least as far as the official things are concerned. To me movies are official, the rest is expanded universe.
For future projects I hope that they won't drop the Engineers. Hopefully they understand that they can be part of other things.
Maybe there's a possibility to come up with something that's in competition with WY. The corporate angle is something that could be expanded on. What about if they try to focus on a world where they have huge privatized army that WY or another company uses to explore the galaxy. Those corporations could have somewhat different means to try to conquer things so it could be interesting to see how they differ towards each-other.
New vaccines were mentioned in AR, maybe they could try to use the Xeno for medical purposes and not only for bio-weapons. I'm not sure how this could be expanded. If they weren't to be used as bio-weapons then maybe they could be used for something else like how viruses can be used for different purposes. A misuse of science for own private gains could be a theme that can be explored more.
What about having a spin-off where the theme is the justice-system? A privatized jail-system, police and so on. Yes we had the prison planet in Alien 3 but maybe that could be expanded on. We already have private security companies so that would not be a very huge stretch when you think about it. The theme could be what people can do when they are in it for their own gains and don't care about anyone else. My guess is that the theme of greed can be dealt with in different ways even in the alien-franchise.
We have the colonial marines, they can also be brought into this. They are a part of humanity as a whole and could also be there to show us that even though for example new planets, and new monsters are parts of it it's still about the human experience.
Maybe they could have a story where the black goo is used. I'm not sure how that would be but at least it's something that the prequels have given us. What about if some factions try to make it more perfect and try to make it into an even better weapon.
This whole post is about eventual ways that they could expand the franchise so we don't have the Xeno involved in everything. Perhaps there could be different morphs or at least something that lets you know that it's in the alien-franchise. Expanding it while making it clear that it's in the alien franchise might be difficult but it has got to be done, don't be too vague about it.
In this post I have tried to bring up the Engineers, WY, military, corporations, prisons, arcturians, the black goo and how it could be used in different stories, other life forms and civilizations. My point is that there are old things that can be expanded on and new things that can be introduced while having the human experience at the center of it.
Good Points..... i think that INDEED there are MANY avenues to HOW you could Expand something within the ALIEN Universe or even do something NEW within it.
I think the PROBLEM that is Faced with the Franchise (Original Quadrilogy) is getting people to LOOK BEYOND what they THINK what would Constitute the ALIEN Franchise.
*The Alien Franchise was about Ripleys Saga but that does not mean the Franchise has to be about her and there is NOTHING ALIEN about her.... Apart from Ripley 8 ;)
*The Franchise had Corporate/Scientific Greed and Agenda to OBTAIN the Xenomorph, but it Delt with TWO Companies... but these are NOT ALIEN.
*The Franchise had Androids but again these are NOT ALIEN.
*The Franchise in EVERY MOVIE had Featured the Xenomorph and this was INDEED ALIEN.
But there was ANOTHER Aspect of ALIEN that was a Extension of the Xenomorph that had its Origins, which was the Derelict and Space Jockey and these were ALIEN.
So if we look at the Space Jockey as being ALIEN too, then the Prequels showing us they are the Engineers who are a ALIEN species should Constitute anything about them as being ALIEN, which also includes anything LINKED to LV-223 which is a Precursor to LV-426
So we can Safely Say that IF there was No Engineers on LV-223 doing those kinds of Experiments or having the Black Goo then there would be NO ALIEN.
And so the Vanilla Xenomorph we got in the Franchise is NOT the First, and does not have to be the LAST kind of Alien Horror that is OUT THERE in the Galaxy thats Connected to the Xenomorph Ancestry.
But INDEED the Franchise can Expand Further than just what came from LV-223, but its a Case of would some Fans consider such a Venture as being part of the ALIEN Franchise?
I think what gets me is SOME FANS would maybe NOT consider something that goes to WHAT ELSE the Engineers had Created thats NOT connected at all to LV-223/LV-426.
However if they got a Colonial Marines Spin Off that does-not even have Xenomorphs or similar they would Consider that as a ALIEN Movie by Virtue of the Marines.
I think there is a LOT you could Expand and Explore with the Franchise.
"New vaccines were mentioned in AR, maybe they could try to use the Xeno for medical purposes"
I think thats something to look at YES, because as a Bio-Weapon its Certainly not the BEST.... Horrific Certainly but the Negatives outweigh the Positives for me.
Thats WHY i did a Topic before to look at the Reason for the Pursuit of the Xenomorph and Purpose. And when we look at RIPLEY 8 you can see the HUGE Benefits that the Xenomorph DNA has given her. She essential is FAR more Superior than a Replicant... We got to see the Engineers in Prometheus vs Alien Covenant and those in Prometheus look Genetically Advanced/Engineered and maybe the Black Goo or what Predated that is something that was USED to Engineer those Prometheus Goons!
From a Military Perspective them a Army of Ripley 8's would be better than Xenomorphs.... there is ONE Problem.... that is FREE-WILL and also Genetic Memory. These are Recipes for your Super Soldiers to go AWOL.
The Problem we have which could be with other AVENUES to Expand the Franchise is such a PLOT (Super Soldiers using Ripley 8 DNA) would not be Accepted or gain a Interest from some Fans because it has no Xenomorphs.
R.I.P Sox 01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017
One other Thing!
Indeed for the Most Part you Need them and this is what Causes a Problem with Expansion as far as WHAT ELSE the Engineers have Created etc.... take Avatar would a World like that and Movie had Worked if we NEVER had any Humans in it?
If the Plot to Avatar was in the Future Humans had been Wiped Out on Earth by Advanced Apes (Planet of the Apes) and these Apes replaced the Humans in Avatar then this WOULD effect HOW Connected we are with the Movie so it maybe would not WORK as well.
So the Necessity for Humans does kind of HOLD BACK to what you can do..... its One of the Reasons for maybe giving us a Alien Covenant Plot where some Human Colonist can END UP on the World that David and Dr Shaw had got to, and thus making Planet 4 closer to HOME for Plot Convenience.
Because well a Movie about a Android David and ONE Human in Dr Shaw is NOT going to be Enough Humans for maybe a Movie to Work... well to gain Interest from a Wider Audience.
BUT..... this is Merely the Limitations of the Imaginations and Consideration to the Engineers Plot of those working on a Prometheus 2!
Do the Engineers look like a Species who would PUT all of their EGGS in ONE Basket? (Pun Intended)
Are we Humans on Earth just a ONE OFF?
There could be other Humanoids.. surely
When using Star Trek as a Example.... we see some of these Humanoids are NOT too Close to Humans so maybe a Movie with them and NO Humans is something that Fans maybe WONT be able to Relate to?
But some are Very Close (Bajoran, Vulcan) but again maybe Fans wont relate to them, well you would still NEED to have Humans!
Well here is the THING..... what is to say that the Engineers had not Seeded Humans Elsewhere or had taken some from Earth to other Worlds in the Past?
Battlestar Galactica/Caprica and Star Wars had Humans and NONE of these came from Earth ;)
And so you could have a Movie or TV Series thats SET in the ALIEN Universe with Humans who have NEVER been to Earth, or their Ancestors did Thousands of Years ago.
Can we even SAY within Context to the Alien Franchise... that Humans came from Earth? We could have been taken to the Earth many many Thousands of Years ago.
So thats something they COULD have Considered! Its what i did for my Idea in 2013 to where Dr Shaw and David would END UP ;)
R.I.P Sox 01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017
"I think the PROBLEM that is Faced with the Franchise (Original Quadrilogy) is getting people to LOOK BEYOND what they THINK what would Constitute the ALIEN Franchise."
Yeah, Star Wars and Star Trek have done those things so why would Alien be different in that way? They got to have something in common that ties them together so people can see that it is alien-related or else there will be problem with some people and the links got to be clear enough. If you do something and then people get confused so you have to do something like sit down with them and explain that XYZ then you haven't done your work, that should be understood from the story. My point is that it isn't the fault of the audience, it is the writer (if you have it in books or movies or whatever doesn't matter). You don't have to explain it in capital letters and exclamation-points so to speak but it shouldn't require you to read ten books to get the connection or connections.
The word Alien means unknown so that could be expanded on to new things in the franchise but that requires mysteries and good writing something that the prequels have failed with. You mention different things that are interesting. If we look at unknown things that are in the franchise we have the culture of the Engineers and the SJ, we have the Weyland and Yutani companies, we have different monsters, we have the goo, you have the android part and even though I am not interested in that someone could explore it if they want but get human characters that we can care about and so on.
One problem is that the prequels have demystified the SJ and the derelict to an extent. Maybe there is a way to save that but keep Scott and Fox far away from everything that has got to do with the story if not then we will get a prequel situation again.
". . . would some Fans consider such a Venture as being part of the ALIEN Franchise?"
Some? What is important is what most of the fans (I would say maybe like 70%) think. If you have a huge division around central things instead of details then a movie has failed.
Look at it like this though: we have the LV-system where the SJ was found. The SJ is tied to the Engineers, the Engineers were in the LV-system which means that they could have been to other systems as well depending on their ships and interest. Maybe they have been to other systems and galaxies, if you tied the Engineers to the SJ and the SJ to the Xeno then it is surely in the Alien-verse and if the links are clear enough then their eventual travels to other systems would make sense. You shouldn't go Lindelofian with it though (mysteries for mysteries sake, to obscure things) because then it gets frustrating. Not to say that he is the only one to blame but he didn't make it better as far as seeing connections in the alien-verse are concerned.
You mention Ripley 8, another problem is that AR is considered to be very poor by many myself included so maybe it would not be very popular to continue with her. I understand what you mean but I am a bit skeptical about it, it depends on the writing and execution.
"These are Recipes for your Super Soldiers to go AWOL"
Maybe that could be something, don't make it into a David kind of situation though and focus too much on the Ripley 8. The human adventure always comes first, to me at least. Our ties and how humanity deals with androids and cloning is what makes it interesting to me not necessarily androids and cloning in themselves. Xenomorphs or not, the main complaint about Prometheus wasn't the lack of Xenos it was that the human characters acted stupid as far as I remember it (you can google it if you want). Because that was the main problem to many that is why people complained but Fox and Scott never understood that part of it. The lack of Xenos wasn't the main complaint so I don't think that a Xeno-less movie would be a disaster as long as it has enough ties to the franchise, isn't too vague, and has well done human characters that we can see ourselves in.
"So the Necessity for Humans does kind of HOLD BACK to what you can do....."
Not necessarily though it is important but maybe it could be very far in the future with like humanity 2.0. Humans are from apes so if you look at it like that it could work. Apes evolve into humans and humans might turn into humanity 2.0 with maybe stronger immune-systems or what ever. Who knows what evolution brings if it occurs naturally or if humans use some artificial thing to evolve themselves. Maybe they would get punished for cheating nature and some Xeno monsters or Engineers could be used in that way. Mankind has tried to dominate earth and the universe so that could fit in somewhere especially when you look at Prometheus and stealing fire from the Gods and so on. Humanity 2.0 goes back to --> Prometheus (and human evolution) which goes back to --> Alien, therefore it's in the alien-universe.
"Species who would PUT all of their EGGS in ONE Basket?"
If they would do that and fall the eggs would break which means that they wouldn't get any omelette. :D
Picture twenty Engineers around a table that are very hungry waiting for their food, if the Engineers have a short fuse there will be trouble. Plates are being thrown around, Engineers are screaming. :D
"Battlestar Galactica/Caprica and Star Wars had Humans and NONE of these came from Earth ;)"
I haven't watched Battelstar Galactica but Star Wars sure. Maybe mankind will have to escape earth because it is not habitable and find a new planet so that's possible.
You mention Star Trek, I've never been into that but I understand what you're trying to say. If they were well-written and sympathetic then it might work but then you got to explain their ties to humanity even though there might be just small links. For example they could both be made by the Engineers but then you should at least give some explanation why the Engineers just didn't create humans that live on earth even though you might not need to go that much into details.
Maybe some humans and the humanoids could face a threat together that they got to cooperate against to survive? Here you could bring in the Engineers and other horrors that they've created to keep their creations in check. What is important is that even though they might be humanoids we (the audience) must feel sympathetic towards them and that requires some well-made characters otherwise we'll have the same problem as we have with the prequels - interesting ideas but mostly crappy characters.
"Some? What is important is what most of the fans (I would say maybe like 70%) think. If you have a huge division around central things instead of details then a movie has failed"
This comes about Mainly from there NEVER really being a A-Z Answer (From 1979-1999) as far as the Xenomorph Origins and Space Jockey, i think RS may have had some Ideas which he NEVER got to Carry On because he was BUSY and so James Cameron came aboard and made ALIENS where i DONT think he even Considered what was the Origins.... and again with FOX going for a AVP instead of looking at Answering the Questions from ALIEN.
So with Each Movie you get a New Set of people working on it who can CHANGE what they want and so you have NO real Solid Foundation to Build On. Which is MAYBE why there was that ALIEN 10 Page Rulebook that was done at the Time they worked on Alien Covenant so that Future Movies have some Ground Rules to FINALLY stick too.
The other Problem is that with the ALIEN Franchise then there are THINGS that NOT every Fan like or Agree with.
They COULD go and REBOOT the Franchise.. remake ALIEN and then make a New Prequel and New Sequel and i think your going to have a HARD TIME to go and Give all the Fans what they want. What these Mainly could Achieve is to Reintroduce the Franchise with a Different Spin on Certain things to a NEW Generation... but these Changes maybe WONT settle too well with Fans who Grew Up with the Original Franchise.
Sometimes a Story can get Screwed Up a bit and Disappointment... Star Wars EP 8 The Last Jedi is a Good Example.... and all you can do is Continue with Damage Control as you cant 100% Undo the Things that were DONE prior.
Unless we have them as Dreams or Time Travel or Multiverse etc etc.... which can just be a LAZY Reset Button.
"The SJ is tied to the Engineers, the Engineers were in the LV-system which means that they could have been to other systems as well depending on their ships and interest. Maybe they have been to other systems and galaxies"
Firstly then INDEED the PLOT would mean its Extremely Unlikely that the Earth is the ONLY such World the Engineers have Interacted with and Seeded/Evolved. And by Virtue of there being other GALAXIES in their Navigation Systems must mean they have been to and have the ABILITY to Reach other Galaxies which means the Chances that we are ALONE as far as a Creation of the Engineers is Exponentially made UNLIKELY.
The Engineers and the Space Jockey were intended to be ONE and the SAME... but while you have some Differences as far as Aesthetically and Scale then it leaves it OPEN for the Space Jockey to be a Different or Related Species.
"the main complaint about Prometheus wasn't the lack of Xenos it was that the human characters"
I think it depends on WHAT Source you look at, Certainly Prometheus had other Problems and it was NOT that it Disappointed because it had NO Xenomorphs... some Fans was UPSET that it was not a ALIENY kind of Movie.
FOX had deemed that NOT having the Xenomorph was a mistake and i Suspect that the Anticipation and Excitement for Blomkamps Alien 5 over a Prometheus 2 that would Follow Dr Shaw and David and STEER AWAY from LV-426 and the Eggs etc, is something that FOX must have FELT there was a Great Interest from the Fans to see the Xenomorph again.
"Not necessarily though it is important but maybe it could be very far in the future with like humanity 2.0."
Well i think who is to say that we are NOT say Humanity 2.0?
When looking at the Engineers Plot its likely they had Created other Humanoids, but i think you would have to have some look Very Human to have us make a Connection with them.
I think they DROPPED the Ball with Alien Covenant... but then it was LIKELY they would NOT go and Risk a Story that does-not have DAVID in it, but it would have to have the Xenomorph and so its HOW do you Juggle those TWO.
It seems they NEVER even Pay any Attention to the Engineers Plot.... Creators, and WHO we had Interactions with that LED to our Mythos and Religions about Gods!
And so they had to Introduce more HUMANS as surely to have a Movie with just Dr Shaw and then David being the ONLY other being thats Relatable to Humans would maybe NOT have Worked.... having Engineers too would be HARD especially if these GUYS had a HATRED for us....
And so having a Plot where the Engineers World is CLOSE to LV-223 and so then they can introduce the Covenant Colony Mission to give us our Humans was the ONLY way they could think about to GIVE us more Humans.
Which is WHY i mentioned about the Eggs in One Basket ;)
In Context to the Franchise can we 100% Say that Mankind came from Earth?
Could we have came FROM somewhere else? And so if we go that Route then we have other Humans, but as you said you have to LINK them to Mankind on Earth in some way. You then Acknowledge that we likely came from Another Place.
OR.... if they PAY attention to the Various Mythos and Religions then there are Themes about a Rebirth for Mankind as in a Second Chance (NOT a Afterlife) and by that i mean the Various Flood/Deluge Stories..
If as a Engineer you see the Problem with Mankind is from the way we are Behaving, the Upbringing and Knowledge we Gained that led to our Behavior
Children could be RAISED to any way the Engineers wanted and NOT to be Influenced or Corrupted by our Ways.
And so we could Explore that the Engineers had came to Earth and taken some Humans or just Embryo's to other Worlds, at the Time Prior to the Planned Destruction of Earth. Or the Engineers could have done this Many Thousands of Years prior.
So the Earth does-not have to be the ONLY place where there are Humans say Thousands of Years ago.
My idea for one of my Prometheus Sequels had taken Dr Shaw and David to a World that has other HUMANS and the Revelation would have been that WE do-not Originate on Earth at all.
R.I.P Sox 01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017
Having a rule-book might be a good idea, it depends on what they have as guide-lines. I think that it is alright to allow some artistic freedom so we won't get a repetition. Wouldn't that disagreement among fans be because they have tried different things with various results? Maybe there would be less discussions and disagreements if they would have been better. Not to say that disagreements always got to be bad, it depends on what causes the disagreement. For example there is a difference between saying that "oh I wish that they would have made the Xeno a bit more like this" compared to "You like the look of the Xeno? I think that it looks like crap." If there are small disagreements then it means that they probably have done more things right compared to if there are two sides that disagree very much.
I am not sure if they need to reboot the franchise. Maybe reboot the prequels since they have failed IMO, but I like the idea of the Engineers so that could be kept. Hopefully Scott won't be around then and they have someone that understands that they need well done human characters. The original three are good but AR is a disappointment to say the least.
Yup, I would like to see how the other planets that they have seeded with life look like. Maybe they look different just like how you can do different paintings. Remember the different planets in Star Wars, who's to say that the Alien franchise can't have similar things? They got to have smart writers and stories to pull this off and also have a good director that understand his or her limits (subtle dig).
Having the SJ and the Engineers to be the same seems tricky at least with how they have treated the Engineers this far. They could be related like a cat and a tiger, not the same but not far from each other.
"I think it depends on WHAT Source you look at, Certainly Prometheus had other Problems and it was NOT that it Disappointed because it had NO Xenomorphs... some Fans was UPSET that it was not a ALIENY kind of Movie."
Maybe, but at least we can say that adding the Xeno to AC didn't improve it.
"FOX had deemed that NOT having the Xenomorph was a mistake…"
I think that they misunderstood the situation. At least they needed to correct more than to just throw the Xeno into the movie. What you say about Blomkamp makes sense but I am not sure if people were excited about it just for the Xenos, maybe they thought that they would get better characters in his movie. Eventually both reasons played a role in it.
"When looking at the Engineers Plot its likely they had Created other Humanoids, but i think you would have to have some look Very Human to have us make a Connection with them."
Yeah, but at the same time we could see a little from different planets. Humanoids on planet X might look different from humanoids on planet Y. To show both could be a way to show how the Engineers create different things.
David was interesting in Prometheus but I would rather not have him in Covenant compared to how it ended up like even though I like the different philosophies that David and Walter had. I understand what you mean about balancing David and the monster but it didn't work. Maybe they thought that they needed more David and more monsters to make it work, but they were wrong.
"It seems they NEVER even Pay any Attention to the Engineers Plot.... Creators, and WHO we had Interactions with that LED to our Mythos and Religions about Gods!"
That might have been what went on but it was too bad, by doing that they miss out on many things that could have been interesting. I still think that the Engineers can be a good way to expand the franchise even though there could be more things.
In the context of the franchise maybe the Engineers could have seeded humanoids or even humans on other planets. Another way is that the Engineers seeded humans on earth and humanoids on other planets. This makes me wonder genetically speaking, what would be the differences in genes between humanoids and humans? Human beings on earth share most of the genes so how much difference would it be between those on earth and those on other planets?
Maybe the Engineers could change our ways or maybe if they won't succeed they might restart it all. I wouldn't like to be there when pissed of Engineers come back to do what they want to do. A angry dog would be a cute puppy by comparison to an army of angry Engineers, just imagine.
You mention human embryos, maybe the Engineers would take some and try to engineer them to get rid of the bad sides that mankind has? If they have thought about it or if they succeed is another question.
"My idea for one of my Prometheus Sequels had taken Dr Shaw and David to a World that has other HUMANS and the Revelation would have been that WE do-not Originate on Earth at all."
That might have been interesting but I would liked to have seen less of Shaw in a movie like that.
"maybe the Engineers would take some and try to engineer them to get rid of the bad sides that mankind has?"
I think what it BOILS down to is to look at WHY was we deemed a Mistake?
Was it Genetically we Never Turned out right? But then for a Race of Advanced Beings who must be Experts in Genetics then they could take a Human to get Embyo's and Evolve us.
But i think the MAIN Problem was HOW we Behaved... that caused a Concern. This is where the THEMES come into Play.
If we look at Many Mythos, then the Problem of Sub-Creation and Mankind is via Virtue of being able to have FREE-WILL and become Sentient, and then be able to be Influenced in ways and Choose our Own Ways that would NOT be how our Creators would have wanted.
so it kind of comes down to like we saw with ADAM and EVE. And so say a David would have been like a Walter if it was NOT for the Extra Free-Will he was Given, and so with ADAM before he ATE the Forbidden Fruit he was NOT Fallen, and so would have had LESS FREE-WILL and been 100% Obedient to GOD.
And so for the Engineers all they would have had to do was to TAKE some Children or Embryo's of Humans to another World and RAISE them how they wanted, these Humans would have NO KNOWLEDGE of Mankind on Earth or the Influences that Shaped us to NOT see the Engineers as Gods.
But eventually after Many Many Generations, Thousands of Years then the same Problems with HOW we would behave could RISE again.... as it did to Mankind after the Food and Noah.
I think in Context to the Franchise as far as the Potential for other Worlds then there could be MANY Different Humanoids and some could be Actually the same as Mankind.
"That might have been interesting but I would liked to have seen less of Shaw in a movie like that."
Well she is DEAD now lol... but the kind of Plot could still work as its Basis is about there being another World in the Galaxy that has Humans on it, who had been on this World for Thousands of Years.
R.I.P Sox 01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017
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