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Ovomorph Objective

Ovomorph Objective

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BigDave

Jun-05-2020 5:06 PM

While we have had Numerous Discussions about the Eggs over and over, i would like to go back and TRY and look at them again as far as the PURPOSE!

Now some will think thats a SILLY Question, as they are where the Xenomorphs Life Cycle Begins... Egg, Face Hugger ==> Infects Host ==> Chest Buster and then our Xenomorph!

But i want to look beyond that... to look in Part at the Reason the Prequels Began... Certainly the Reason that some Fans would have Expected from a Prequel.

The Purpose may seem Simple if we look at them in Context to the Queen and see them as a Parasitic Organism that acts like say Ants/Bees they are there to Survive... If we look at them as such then are we looking at them being a Ancient Organism the Space Jockey/Engineers had tried to Exploit.. if so for WHAT reason?   To use as a Weapon against Threats?

But it seems even prior to the Prequels that Ridley Scott saw the Xenomorph/Eggs as a Engineered Bio-logical Warfare.

Ridley Scott had said before that it was a case of discovering WHO would make such a THING and for what PURPOSE...  This is a Question he brought up recently with his recent Interview with the LA Times

With Alien Engineers seeming to Indicate the Engineers used their (or maybe not theirs) Creation Tool on some Organism to Create many Variants of Xenomorphs.

Prometheus was more Ambiguous but seemed to indicate they had been using their Creation Tool to create other Horrors and the Xenomorph is connected to such Experiments.. but it was NOT so Spoon Fed.

What both ideas seemed to show was the Engineers had Experimented and Engineered a Organism to use as in effect a PEST CONTROL against Unruly/Unsatisfactory Creations.

We get to Alien Covenant and its Curve-ball is that actually David had Experimented on the Black Goo and its Effects to Create the Xenomorph.. with David though its kind of not as Clear cut to WHY he did this, it seems it was because he Wanted to see IF he could Create and Surpass what the Engineers had been doing.

So WHAT i really wanted to Discus is WHY and WHAT purpose does the Eggs/Xenomorph have as far as to WHY would someone Create it...

What i am getting at is are we really just seeing a Engineered Killing Parasite that is just to be used as a means of Punishment or Pest Control.

Or could the Engineers had been Experimenting on either the Eggs or their Descendants (so what reason for the Experiments on LV-223). For more than merely to Create Something to just use to KILL Humans..

The Same applies with David and his Reasons too.

In both cases.... then the BLACK GOO is a more Effective Weapon to USE! if you intention is merely to DESTROY.

So COULD or DOES the Xenomorph or prior Experiments have some other Purpose, or some Agenda to attempt to GAIN something more than a Face Hugging, Chest Bursting Killing Machine?

I made this POST in Context to eventually i suppose we would get to the CLIMAX of the Eggs on the Derelict, but i would like to think the Xenomorph was NOT just created just to KILL... or maybe it is as simple as that!

I think there could be a Thought Provoking Explanation... if we consider that RS had said the Prequels was about Creation, Evolution and IMMORTALITY... oh and A.I

Here is what RS said recently.

"What I always thought when I was making it, the first one, why would a creature like this be made and why was it traveling in what I always thought was a kind of war-craft, which was carrying a cargo of these eggs. What was the purpose of the vehicle and what was the purpose of the eggs? That’s the thing to question — who, why, and for what purpose is the next idea, I think.”

So does that suggest he is still going for that someone Created these as a Biological Warfare and nothing more...

Or could he be Questioning that Purpose to give us something more than just that, when we consider the BLACK GOO is a already Made more Efficient Bio-Weapon/Reset Switch.

For me maybe the Answer lies with the Beginning (Prequel Plot by Jon Spaights  as in Alien 01 The Master Narrative)  and the End... Alien Resurrection ;)

We need to Evolve the Beast beyond a Egg Laying Space Bug!

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

39 Responses to Ovomorph Objective

BigDave

Jun-13-2020 4:37 PM

With Regards to the Immortality i was looking at it as a Pseudo by which i mean (KIND OF) yes we are talking Sci-Fi which really means its NOT REAL ;)

I can see the point about how with Prometheus we did-not see anything to suggest Immortality but it seemed to be a Set-Up of Sorts.... Ridley Scott said that Prometheus (in Part) was about IMMORTALITY and to ask where do we go when we Die.... which INDEED the Movie Never Answered....

It was a little about Faith and it was Ambiguous to give or not give any Answers, so its down to Interpretation in which i saw a Man of Science, Faced with Death had turned to the Findings of Dr Shaw and Holloway in that they are RIGHT regarding our Creators and that THEY could give him more Life.... when he DIED he said there is NOTHING.. which David wished him a Journey which is to indicate that Weyland would NOW get to know if there IS or IS NOT any After-Life.

I think the BIGGER set up was as Weyland said... David does-not have a SOUL and its then to Determine what is a SOUL if its the Spiritual Existence in Heaven when we DIE as Dr Shaw would believe then INDEED our David has NO SOUL... but then does Mankind Possess this? Do the Engineers?  It never showed us either way... i dont think it was about showing us a Heaven/Paradise.

However if a SOUL is a Collection of Memories, Experiences, that can SHAPE the kind of Person we are... Good Soul or Bad Soul then with David he could be Shaped by his Experiences and Upbringing and Treatment.  He has Memories and Experiences.

He does-not DIE... merely his Body can Fail/Be Destroyed, but his Memories/Experiences could be RECOVERED and Transferred to a NEW Body... in Essence giving him a After-Life and Resurrection.

If his A.I Brain/Storage is Destroyed then he is DEAD, but a A.I could have Back Ups that are SAVED and if these are Transferred then he again has a KIND OF like Immortality to a degree hence i said Pseudo but again it may be a Problem with me that i sometimes USE the Wrong Word, so what i really mean and should say is KIND OF.

So when i look at the Pitch that Jon Spaights had made for the Prequels, (Alien 01 The Master Narrative) it seemed the Engineers were NOT content with Extending their Lives they wanted to Transcend.. so it was like they wanted to TRY and gain a After-Life/Immortality.

Now if we look at the Movie The 6th Day then we have Scientist who can take a SNAP SHOT of our Memories, Experiences and Emotions and then UPLOAD these to a CLONED Body and thus give us a KIND OF (Pseudo i would have used but again thats maybe a Incorrect use) Immortality.

Now with David he Potentially would have what we see in The 6th Day, but it seems the Engineers never really achieved such a Feat!

What i was thinking is via the Xenomorph DNA we saw that Ripley 8 was able to gain some of Ripleys Memories, a kind of Genetic Memory Transfer we have to ASSUME that this was via Virtue of the Xenomorph DNA.

So the Xenomorph DNA must have held the KEY for how she was able to Re-Call some of the Memories of Ripley.

So WHAT i was thinking is that if the Progenitor to what becomes the Xenomorph was some Organism or something that also allowed for GENETIC MEMORY transfer, then such a Organism would be something that the Engineers would be Interested in Experimenting with to ATTEMPT to Unlock this and USE this so the Engineers could PASS ON their Genetic Memory/SOUL.

Thus giving more Reason for the Engineers and Experiments than  just to TRY and Create the ULTIMATE KILLING MACHINE.

We could then Explore the Organism that they Experimented on this and this Organism/Species is where we could introduce the UNUSED elements of STARBEAST.

But maybe we best keep it SIMPLE... and reveal that there are these Organisms that have Queens that LAY some Eggs that you could use to KILL STUFF... but the Engineers Screwed it up and Humans do so in trying to obtain it too.

In which case the PREDATORS made the BEST USE of the Xenomorph as the Ultimate HUNT.

If we only STICK to a ALIENS/AVP then its a case of HOW MANY times can we go there before its runs out of GAS?

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

BigDave

Jun-13-2020 5:05 PM

@BlackAnt

Thank you ;)

Indeed i think this is what RS was looking at, going the Queen, Egg, Face Hugger, Chest Buster and then Xenomorph route over and over without Changing (Evolving) it a bit or giving more of a Back Story to UPLIFT the Xenomorph beyond being Space Ants/Rats... will eventually run out of IDEAS and Cremate the Beast.

In Hindsight the Prequels should have given more Respect to the Xenomorph... but even ALIEN ENGINEERS had merely indicated that they are just a Variant of a Bio-Weapon the Engineers where using and after that PLOT the only thing Different to Explore would be WHY the Engineers did this, WHAT/WHEN was it that they Discovered a Organism they had used for the BASIS of their Experiments and WHERE did they obtain their CREATION TOOL (Black Goo/Scarabs).

Then with the Engineers there was more to them than just Creating stuff to KILL.

In Hindsight... maybe the Prequels (which inc Spaights ideas) should have Elevated the Xenomorph more... some Fans suspected that (some still do now) the Xenomorph is the BASIS of the Engineers Black Goo and Bio-Mechanical Technology.

Unfortunately that SHIP has Sailed and it did-so even with Alien Engineers/Genesis.

In Hindsight with Prometheus the Connection was a bit Vague and it never had any real Xenomorph like moments as far as Attacking... Alien Covenant did... we had Neomorph and Xenomorph... in Prometheus the Equivalent we had was Space Cobra Face Rape and Toxic Avenger Fifield going POSTAL!

Now in Alien Engineers these Scenes we could see more of a Connection to the Xenomorph.... but ALAS.

With Alien Covenant the David as Creator Path does FIT with the Themes of Prometheus... but what could have FITTED just as much was David had Created something similar...

SAY THIS...

Again as with Davids Workshop and Drawings we see his Progress to this... he goes to CLAIM he has Perfected what the Engineers had attempted.

We show his Creation goes and Egg Morphs its Victims and from these we get Smaller Versions that Hatch (like the Gremlins do) and thus we BY-PASS the Queen and Face Hugger.

David has Created a potentially Superior Version.

THIS would give Clues to maybe HOW the ORIGINAL Xenomorph was Created..  The Prequels would CONCLUDE with David's Xenomorph/Creation being Eradicated and LV-223 but that one of the Engineers Attempts was Stranded on LV-426 and has Potential for Research and Re-Engineering and so Special Order 937 comes from this.

But again ALAS.

"What came first the xeno or the egg?"

A Question of which the Answer has changed over time ;)

Some Fans would have expected the Queen or unknown so we have the Chicken or Egg Question.

Seemed RS had settled on a Engineered Result so then its case of the Chicken, but then the Chicken could have came from a previous Organisms Eggs (via Experiments).

With Alien Covenant then its seems its Dr Shaw's Eggs. (well Egg Cells).

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

SuperAlien

Jun-13-2020 5:26 PM

Thus giving more Reason for the Engineers and Experiments than  just to TRY and Create the ULTIMATE KILLING MACHINE.

That's a very interesting twist, BigDave.

It gives a whole religious meaning to the crucified xeno mural from Prometheus and it could turn the base from LV223 from a military facility, to a scientific research for immortality. That would explain why the engineers from LV223 were different from the ones from planet 4, sort of xeno-engineer hybrids, like Ripley 8. And why they were so highly regarded by the ones on planet 4, they knew the path to immortality.

The black goo was the key, but if not strictly controlled it could wreak havoc. This is why the urns were in a controlled atmosphere room and the engineers were so terrified about it. It was the key to immortality, but also the death of all meat if out of comtrol.

"He survived, he’s now in Disneyland in Orlando, and no way am I going back there. How did he end up in Disneyland? I saw him in Disneyland, Jesus Christ!"

SuperAlien

Jun-13-2020 5:58 PM

I think we deseeve at least one film that explains what the engineers from planet 4 and LV223 were doing, what is the black goo, where did it come from, how long the engineers knew about the xenomorphs for.

Holloway said: "This is just another tomb" when he enterred the controlled atmosphere room or the "head room". The urns with the black goo ampoules were probably inspired by funerary urns or by the ancient egyptians canopic jars, they must have contained xenomorph "remains".

"He survived, he’s now in Disneyland in Orlando, and no way am I going back there. How did he end up in Disneyland? I saw him in Disneyland, Jesus Christ!"

BigDave

Jun-13-2020 7:08 PM

I think in a NUT-SHELL

Alien Covenant with David could be a Re-telling of LV-223 and those Engineers.

Those Engineers on LV-223 and Sacrificial Engineer could be either Engineers who had Engineered themselves to be like that (seemed to be the case pre Alien Covenant)

This could now be that they are either a Faction who had taken the Creation Tool to Evolve themselves that way, against the WILL of the other Engineers.

Or they are a Engineered Creation like the Replicants are, and they grew FED UP of this and decided to Create something else on LV-223.

At the BASIS of the Black Goo it was Simplistic if they Stuck to what it Evolved from which was Tiny Scarabs (i used to use the term Nano... but thats the Wrong Word as Nano is very very very Tiny). What we had was a TOOL that could take DNA/Traits of a Organism and then PASS that onto others to Create a Hybrid.  But alas they Complicated it during Prometheus Edit Room.

With the IMMORTALITY aspect... i was looking at Jon Spaights pitch which was Alien 01 The Master Narrative which i dont think was ever released, we had some parts of it shown on the Furious Gods Documentary.

This seemed to indicate the Engineers had been like us in the Past, they had made many Advancements, Space Travel, Genetic Engineering, they started to NOT need the things that we do such as how we Socialize, Music, Arts and such wants/needs....  They were able to Evolve themselves to LIVE for Longer... but this was NOT enough, they was looking to TRANSCEND themselves beyond their Physical Form/Limitations..

If we look at Ripley 8 from a Scientific POV as far as what would some Scientist see with her if they Captured her... i think that ONE thing that would interest them was HOW via the Clone Process could she RE-CALL some Memories of Ripley!

You would be thinking that if you SOLVE that Riddle could you find a way to PASS ON your own Memory onto another Clone of yourself?

So i was thinking if there was a Organism that could do this, a Xenomorph Ancestor, then for Engineers who want to LIVE beyond Thousands of Years... that eventually will DIE or can be KILLED.... then if some Organism  could potentially HOLD the secret to PASSING ON the Soul/Memories Genetically that would be something to try and TAKE advantage of and Experiment on.

This is where you could RE-DESIGN the Starbeast.

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

BigDave

Jun-14-2020 7:17 AM

IF we instead just IGNORE trying to give some other Purpose to the Ovomorph or any Process that lead to its Creation then we can go and have a look at the EVOLUTION of the Idea of the Ovomorph.

1) STARBEAST: The Idea that evolved into Alien.

What we had was that the Ovomorph was a Spore Stage of some Ancient Alien Organism that introduced a Life-Cycle that the Xenomorph was based off.  The Spore Stage of this Organism had the Simple Process of being the Creatures way to Procreate.

It is indicated that the Starbeast was a Species that had some kind of Civilization, and they were capable of Building Constructions and Architecture of which they Built Pyramid Complexes that they would use to STORE their Spore Stages and held these Places with High Regards and Ritual.

One of these Pyramids was found near Zeta 2 Reticuli and all that remained was the Dormant Spore Stage.  Which had been encountered by TWO visiting Species (a Giant Alien Race and then Humans).

Beyond the Spore Stage what we have is a Organism who is Destructive and Horrific by Virtue of its Life-Cycle and need to Survive....  a Feral Beast.... but one that when Nurtured by its OWN kind would grow to become a Intelligent Species capable of Construction and maybe Space Travel?

2) ALIEN:  The evolution of the Starbeast Draft.

But actually not so much a EVOLUTION as our Spores/Eggs seemed to now be Relegated to a Cargo that is Carried by a ALIEN Species that we knew of as the Space Jockey.  At this point we NEVER saw any kind of Civilization from the Xenomorph just that they was being Carried by the Space Jockey.   By Virtue of some Aesthetic similarities it seems there was a CONNECTION between the Space Jockey Technology and Xenomorph.

This left it OPEN to what the Connection could be.

*Ancient Organism the Space Jockey had came across and Engineered its Technology from, and could have been using the Eggs for more than just Weapons. But they also could use them to WIPE OUT any would be FOES.

*A Engineered Weapon by the Space Jockey that would be used to DESTROY would be FOES.

*A Engineered Weapon that they had Engineered from some other Ancient Species, which they also Stole/Engineered their Technology from.

*The Space Jockey are a Enslaved Race that are USED by the Xenomorphs to Transport their Eggs so they can Populate the Galaxy.

Ridley Scott seemed to want to Uplift the Xenomorph by making it more Intelligent and actually it would SURVIVED the First Movie, having KILLED all the Crew (Cocooned/Egg Morphed them) and it would MIMIC the Voice of Ripley to LURE in more Hosts.

At latter times we had RS considered that the Xenomorph was merely a Engineered Bio-Weapon that would be used to Eradicate Life/Foes.  The Egg just being the Payload of this Biological Warfare.

3) ALIENS: The introduction of the Hive/Queen.

With Aliens we have Cameron come up with a Idea that the Xenomorph Eggs can be LAID by a Queen and the Xenomorph would go on to Establish a Nest/Hive and so they would become like Ants/Termites but Super Deadly very ALIEN and Bi-Pedal Hive Organisms.

The Purpose of the Eggs again being part of the Xenomorphs Life Cycle but with ALIENS it now added weight to these Possibilities.

*The Organism is something the Space Jockey had discovered and would USE as a Weapon due to the Parasitic/Invasive Life Cycle of the Organism, it would INFEST a World and Eradicate its Life.

*The Organism is a Engineered Weapon and the Queen is part of the Engineered Process of such a Weapon.

*The Organism is a Engineered Weapon but the Queen is a Evolution/Mutation of the Bio-Weapon.

It was NEVER really answered as to the Origin of the Organism on Screen, but RS had said it was a Engineered Weapon but the Queen is left open to be either a Determined/Coded outcome or a Mutation/Evolution.

4) PROMETHEUS: We now come to the Prequels.

While Ambiguous it is indicated that the Xenomorph is Connected to some Experiments relating to a Pathogenic Parasitic Bio-Weapon our Space Jockey (now called Engineers) had Created, likely as a PEST CONTROL for Unruly Creations... but the Movie is VERY ambiguous.

Without getting into Detail... we were left with the Xenomorph being either.

*A Engineered Creation to be used as a ERADICATION TOOL.

*A Unintended Consequence/Evolution of the Pathogen/Experiments after it had GOT out of Control.

*A Organism that the Engineers would USE as the Base for the Experiments/Re-Engineering they was Conducting on LV-223

Ridley Scott seemed to indicate the 2nd Option.

5) ALIEN COVENANT: The First Stage of a Xenomorph Origin Story.

The Xenomorph now being a Engineered Creation using the Pathogen to Incorporate Elements/Traits of Various Organisms to Create the PERFECT KILLING MACHINE.  Because its Creator a Synthetic Android was Curious about the Pathogen and Creation and Bored and decided to see if he could create a Perfect Organism.

So what we are left with as far as the PURPOSE is a Organism that is Engineered, that has the Potential to Evolve in order to Increase its Survival Chances.  a Horrific Killing Machine that UNLEASHED on a World would INVEST and Overrun the Population.

A Organism that by Virtue of its Life-Cycle and Instinct to Survive and Procreate could prove Deadly to a Worlds Life.

Basic... but kind of Limited!

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

Leto

Jun-14-2020 7:57 AM

>>>We need to Evolve the Beast beyond a Egg Laying Space Bug!

I don’t understand how Ridley Scott wants to evolve the Alien, adhering to the prequel path? How? If in the end we have to come to the first Alien?

 

Of course, he can evolve it in any way, but it's all useless - because in the end he will have to erase the whole evolution and put the classic Big Chap. He must either abandon the ambitions of the prequel, or clearly say that by “evolve” he means precisely the first Alien - Big Chap. But I think this may upset some Prequel Fans, who were expecting something new.

 

BigDave

Jun-14-2020 9:00 AM

I think you can explore Different ways to Procreate and not have to have the Queen Shown..

I think at Essence the Xenomorph in its DNA has that Parasitic Origin from the Pathogen and this Trait would remain and so the Xenomorph could EVOLVE to ways that would allow the Xenomorph to Procreate in other ways.  Which the Queen would be one such way.

The Xenomorph would still have Traces of that Survival/Procreate element of the Pathogen... so it would ADAPT and Change to Survive.

I will agree that the Prequels are in a MESS....

The Xenomorph may be Tarnished and Reduced to being a Engineered Experiment that is to be USED with the intention to Eradicate any Life-Forms the Creator or those who wish to Obtain it would want.

I think Current Prequels apart.... the Xenomorph was a bit Limited, it needed to be Evolved or Uplifted... we could all think and WONDER about a more Surreal Back Story to the Xenomorph but that SHIP has maybe Sailed...

So we have these EGGS... regardless of HOW we got them i think maybe we need to do ONE of a Few Things...

1) Explore the Eggs again.... is LV-426 the only Place these Eggs were Loaded onto a Ship?  With this we DONT give any indication to the Eggs Origin, the Age... we leave it a Mystery.. so it could be from David, it could be from the Engineers we just DONT reveal it.

We just Find Eggs... or a World where these Eggs had been Deployed.... so then you have TWO options.

a) We show a Company attempt to Experiment on the Xenomorph and we see the Xenomorph Evolve beyond what it was shown to merely do in ALIENS. Is this a Natural Evolution as the Organism Rapidly can evolve as far as how we had from when we Evolved to Cave-Men to then what we are today... or is some kind of Experiment on the Xenomorph had Triggered a Evolution... by that i mean look at the New Planet of the Apes... before they Experimented with the Apes what we had was just Normal Chimps who are NOT going to Dominate the World or form a Civilization.

b) We arrive at a World that has had the Xenomorphs Unleashed on them... this could be a Engineer Colony where we DONT have any Date of WHEN this Infestation had Happened... just that these Xenomorphs have been on this WORLD for Longer than the Weeks we saw in ALIENS.

Show the Species has Adapted had the ability to Learn and become more than just a Invasive Organism that would go on to set up a Hive/Nest like Termites and Ants.

OR..... We just CUT our Loses with the Xenomorph, Enjoy the Nasty Parasitic Monster for what it was in ALIEN Franchise.

We IGNORE what David does next... leave it OPEN.. a Mystery.. we LEAVE any exploration of the Xenomorphs! DONE!

The Pathogen has the Ability to Create Monsters, that can be Similar to the Xenomorph, Neomorph just NOT quite too Close.

So you explore a WORLD where the Pathogen has been Unleashed, what would Planet 4 be like should NO-ONE had detected the Signal on the Covenant and David got KILLED by a Neomorph...

Can the Neomorph have Evolved over Thousands of Years?  I guess a Problem is the Organisms NEED a Host and IF there are NONE then its Game Over...

But the Spores/Eggs would remain.. and so what i am saying is we could go to other Worlds where the Pathogen has been Unleashed and see what HORRORS await.. give us something SIMILAR but NEVER indicate anything about the Xenomorph.

World that are infected could be Located Hundreds or Thousands of Light Years away where our Humans run into them like WAY after ALIENS... it could be 50 Years, 100 Years, 200 Years etc after Aliens on a FAR FAR away World.

OR......

So we have LV-223, the Pathogen we know this has Created stuff like Hammerpedes, Deacons, Neomorphs and the Xenomorph traces itself back to LV-223.

BUT.... what was the Basis of LV-223, was there some Organism that the Engineers had Experimented that lead to those Experiments?  Was there some Organism that the GOO was Engineered/Obtained from?

So you could also EXPLORE that and such Organisms could be more Advanced than we saw of the Neomorph and Xenomorphs..... this could be the STARBEAST.

I think maybe going back to the Xenomorph as far as its Origins if we go for David did it, or we go to show that NO he did NOT.... we could Potentially get it WORSE!

Maybe David and his Shenanigans should be the NEW Space Jockey Mystery... while we also keep the Space Jockey Mystery and we dont give any CONCRETE explanations to HOW/WHEN/WHERE the Xenomorph came from... leave it a Mystery...

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

Nathan Adler

Jun-21-2020 9:38 PM

@BigDave: If the original director's cut is anything to go by, eggs are formed from those the xenomorph killed.  So are we to assume this was also the case for all the eggs left sitting in the Derelict on LV-426?  If so, what species had the eggs here been morphed from? Were they morphed from the Engineer race we saw in Prometheus or Covenant by this larger Space Jockey race, and was the creature that killed them to kickstart this process the more beaked-one we saw on the mural?

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