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Alien: Isolation (the novelization) and the Space Jockey

Alien: Isolation (the novelization) and the Space Jockey

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chli

Aug-01-2019 2:02 AM

I just read "Alien: Isolation". The novel is based on the horrifying game with the same name. We follow Amanda Ripley to Sevastopol Station in search of her mother who disappeared with the towing ship Nostromo. The year is 2137, about 15 years after the occurrences of Alien, and 42 years before Aliens.

At the beginning of the novel, the salvage vessel Anesidora finds a flight recorder. On it is the name of the disappeared ship: UCSS Nostromo. Then they pick up a distress call which leads them to LV-426 . . .

We have had many a discussion about the Space Jockey. How old is he? How long has the Derelict been there? How old are the eggs? Can David be behind it all? Can he be the creator of the xenomorph? It’s about 18 years between the occurrences on Planet 4 and Alien . . .

The novelization Alien: Isolation is written by Keith R. A. DeCandido and published this year (2019). In his “Acknowledgements”, he mentions Steve Tzirlin at 20th Century Fox as supplying “reference material and approvals” and who “guided the story” in many ways.

So, what is the problem? Well, the crew of Anesidora follow the distress signal they have picked up to LV-426. They find the Derelict and enters an opening without a door. Foster (the wife of Captain Marlow) comments that “Somebody must’ve knocked the door off”. Who or what did that?

Anyway, they continue inside the huge spacecraft and finally get to a huge room. In the centre of it is the Space Jockey. The “human form was huge - at least 16 feet tall - and it had been there a long time. It looked like a fossil”. Its ribcage had exploded outwards and Marlow comments: “it’s hard to tell where the suit ends and the wearer begins, but it’s not a synthetic. It’s definitely a life form” (That seems to leave out David as the Space Jockey . . .).

Later on, Marlow finds the beacon and turns it off (which is why the colony of Hadley’s hope didn’t pick up the signal).

Then, they find the hole which Kane entered and the equipment used to lower him down (and up). Marlow descends and seeing the huge area with rows after rows of eggs, he wonders if this is really a part of the ship or a cave beneath it . . .  Furthermore, he ponders whether the eggs can still be alive. He concludes that the “idea seemed ridiculous. The ship had been there for a very long time, as the desiccated pilot proved” . . . Still, it’s “alien life forms” surrounded by mist and “a vague blue light seemed to come from the floor” . . .

So, my point is that in this novelization, published this year (2019), and which a representative of 20th Century Fox was involved in, they still stick to the Derelict and the Space Jockey being very old (and organic - not synthetic). Are they not aware of the route Ridley Scott took: that David is the creator of the xenomorph? Are they not aware of the problem: If the Derelict and the Space Jockey have been there for a very long time, David cannot be the creator of the xenomorph.

68 Responses to Alien: Isolation (the novelization) and the Space Jockey

S.M

Aug-03-2019 11:14 PM

If the Engineer got hugged before he got into the chair - no problem.

BigDave

Aug-04-2019 1:42 PM

I have not read any Novels apart from ALIEN and ALIENS, so i cant comment on the Ramp.  I think certainly there had to be a way those Eggs got on the Ship.  The way this happened and lay-out really depends on what the Purpose was for.

It is indicate the Eggs are a Bio-Weapon that was intended to be USED, and we have covered HOW the Eggs would be deployed before, i cant see them being DROPPED down, certainly NOT from any Height.

We have to ASSUME there is a way to Access the Cargo Hold from inside the SHIP.  As this could be a Plausible way that the Space Jockey got infected by his OWN Cargo.  The other option would have to be that a Face Hugger had got loose and  found a way to the Space Jockey away from the Cargo Hold.

Regarding the MASK, then indeed if we are looking at the Space Jockey as NOT a Suit then it does get around HOW the Face Hugger could get to the Pilot.

But something to Consider is Prometheus were we saw the Engineer got into the Seat and the Seat Attached the Suit to the Engineer.  So maybe the Derelict Pilot Chair functions the SAME, i would assume so.

"Somebody must’ve knocked the door off”

I am going to assume the NOVEL is recounting THIS Mission from the Game.  I wonder HOW different the Novel describes the Event and Layout compared to the Game, as in the Game they Enter via the Same openings that the Nostromo Crew do, only they Follow the Tunnel around and it Gradually leads to the Pilot Room, it appears the Entrance Point to the Pilot Room from this TUNNEL has NO kind of Door.

The only visible other Door Ways are the one that leads to the Beacon and again this has a similar TUNNEL to the Entrance and again NO visible Door.

Thats not to discount what the Novel is describing, just saying the Derelict Beacon Mission shows NO signs of a DOOR..   Was Foster just making a Assumption, or are there indications that there should have been a Door?

In ALIEN we never got to Pan around the Room to see its Layout and Doors,  however with Aliens: Colonial Marines we also visit the Derelict were it indicates there are Multiple Passage Ways on the Ship, and some do lead down to the CARGO HOLD, it also shows 2-3 Large Doorways that connect to the Pilot Room. The Aesthetic of the Ship is a little less Organic than we see in ALIEN and the Alien Isolation Game but not as Mechanical as in Prometheus/Alien Covenant.

The Interior to the Alien Colonial Marines Derelict scene is MASSIVE.. much Larger than the Interior of the Juggernaught and yet the Juggernaught is Larger (Externally) than the Derelict., but the same can be said for the CARGO HOLD in the Movie ;)

I dont think we should consider Alien Colonial Marines as Canon as far as the Lay-out unless the Engineers/Space Jockey use the same Technology that Dr Who does with his TARDIS

But considering some parts of that game i would assume there would be Entrances to the Pilot Chamber that are NOT like in Alien Isolation (Space Jockey would not FIT).  And its also likely there is a Route to the CARGO HOLD which we would ASSUME would have a Door that can be Closed.

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

BigDave

Aug-04-2019 2:12 PM

I forgot to add that with Prometheus it was indicated the Entrance to the Juggernaught was actually at what MOST would have assumed to be the REAR of the Ship, but it was revealed the SHIP flies different to what we would have assumed at the time prior to Prometheus.

I have indicated as such with the RED Arrow on the Derelict.  Something to Consider is Externally in Prometheus we saw NO clear Doorway at that part of the Ship (but it is where they Entered) we also saw NO clear Door/Mechanism from where David had opened up to Drop the Black Goo in Alien Covenant.

So its LIKELY that the Technology allows for Doors/Holes to SEAL UP and seem Concealed, and so we cant rule out the same for Interior Doors on the Derelict.

It makes sense as looking at the Entrance Point the Crews of the Nostromo and Anesidora used they are NOT Practical for use by a Space Jockey as shown in the image above.   And so as Prometheus Indicated there must be a Entrance the Space Jockey could use at the other END of the Ship, that maybe Conceals itself when Closed.

"he wonders if this is really a part of the ship or a cave beneath it"

It appears the author is Toying with the Ambiguity to STIR-UP some doubt/debate in that they (Marlow) could not tell if it was a Cave or NOT.... just as Kane thought it looked like some kind of Cave.

So this as well as the other comments do-not give any Clear or Concrete Clues to what the Space Jockey (apart from indicating its a Suit) is or the Cargo Hold

So these are Helpful in they allow for the Debate to carry on and DONT contradict what ever they will do IF/WHEN we get to Finally See the Derelict Event.  In doing so it leaves those WHO eventually Answer that Event to have the Freedom to Explore it in a Number of ways, compared to if the NOVEL have Concrete Proof that the CARGO HOLD was NOT part of the Ship and say Concrete Proof the Ship had been there for Thousands of Years.

As this would Contradict the Path that Ridley Scott had seemed to be taking, which if we get a Conclusion and it goes against what the Alien Isolation Novel shows, then it would essentially place that Novel as NOT-CANON.

The way it seems to have been covered, leaves it OPEN to explain the Derelict in a number of ways, IF we ever get to EXPLORE it on Screen..... or IF not then it allows it to be a Ambiguous Mystery.

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

MonsterZero

Aug-04-2019 4:43 PM

I could see David pouring Xeno acid to create the hole....(How else could he enter the cargo hold... The doors/hatch have long since fossilized and no longer work. Can you store Xeno acid in glass? Handy to have that stuff. Probably faster than a laser cutter?)

Maybe he's in search of Engineers relic(s) (crystals? or something really nasty)

chli

Aug-05-2019 2:25 AM

I would say that the novel points out that the Space Jockey is not just a suit. It’s a suit with a desiccated body inside it (I don’t think the facehugger attacked a suit :) ). You would see the body inside (what’s left of it) if you peer into the hole in the suit. The hole is in chest hight so you would see a petrified, torn open ribcage if you had a peek (which Dallas, Marlow and others did).

When it comes to doors, I think it would be reasonable that they function like in Prometheus? They can shut by themselves if a safety alarm goes on. And you can open and close them with a security code. You won’t see the doors until they are closed.

As for the cargo hold, it certainly is reasonable that there is an entrance somewhere so that you can load and unload the cargo. The cargo hold of the Derelict contains xeno-eggs with the purpose of exterminating unwanted life-forms. My guess is that the juggernaut would have to land on a planet first. Then they would open the door to the cargo hold, fetch some eggs and place them in a couple of places on the planet. The rest would take care of itself . . .

MonsterZero

Aug-05-2019 5:53 AM

What if there is something special in the cargo hold?...something the Engineers had taken from Earth two thousand years ago? And David is seeking this item(he has a cargo manifest from the juggernauts orrey?)....Some ancient astronaut artifact(Skull of ? or something biblical ...I think RS would love something like that.) 

 

BigDave

Aug-05-2019 8:21 AM

“it’s hard to tell where the suit ends and the wearer begins, but it’s not a synthetic. It’s definitely a life form”

I think Certainly this indicates that Marlow likely realized it was some kind of Suit, it seems they dont give too much away so as to NOT conflict any Future Prequels, by that as far as describing whats beneath the Rip Cage Hole.

I think as i pointed out before about the Chair in Prometheus Contained a Suit and so IF the Space Jockey was a Engineer (or related) then they  could likely be walking around in a Similar Suit like in Prometheus.

These Close Ups show the Under-Suit seems to Merge seamlessly with the Engineer so it would be hard to see where the Suit Begins, it could even be Permanently Fused with the Engineer and so WHEN the Engineer gets into the Chair and the Space Jockey Suit then Attaches to him then IF the Engineer Dies and you have a HOLE in the Outer suit, if you looked inside and saw a Engineer in the Bio-Mechanical Suit beneath you would NOT be able to work out what is a Suit and what is NOT.

The suit itself (Under-suit) is Very Organic looking.

IF we assume the Space Jockey was similar to a Engineer, then they could walk around in that Under-suit and get Face Hugged, and then they get to the Chair to SUIT UP.

When it comes to the Doors i also agree their Technology is different and so what appears as a OPEN Doorway with NO Doors could be sealed up with a Door as we are shown this with the Cargo Hold in Alien Covenant.

So the Cargo Hold opens up to Form a Hole in what before seemed a Seamless Hull so Certainly the same could apply to other Entrances and Doors.

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

BigDave

Aug-05-2019 9:12 AM

As far as the Deployment of Eggs... again its really Flawed...

It would be a Hard and Labor Intensive Task to Carry the Eggs Manually, maybe they only Need to Drop off say 10-25 Eggs a Time, likely to a Few Continents to Ensure they would SPREAD across a World.

But this would take a lot of Work, Time and Risk!

Dropping them like Bombs makes No Sense!  When also looking at the Cargo Hold and HOW would this happen?

The revelation of the Space Jockey as the Engineers who do-not have a Problem with Self Sacrifice could give us another indication.....  MAYBE.. this would have been a Suicide Mission?

The Space Jockey would LAND on a Planet, then somehow some Door Ways open up and the Blue Myst is then Turned Off so that the Xenomorphs can Escape... but then the Franchise seems to indicate that Close Proximity is needed and so IF the Space Jockey had LANDED it could take some TIME before any Curious Life-forms come to Inspect the Ship and become Infected in enough Numbers to allow for a Infestation?

How many Crew does a Derelict have? Could they go out and ROUND-UP some Victims and then Shove them in the Cargo Hold and then Escape to the Safety of the Pilot Room?

Having a Separate Sacrificial Room where Hosts could be Rounded up and Contained and then some Device that would PICK a Egg from the Cargo Hold and Transport it to the Sacrificial Room would make sense...  (take the Hosts away from the Ship once Infected). However the SHIP is simply Not Large enough but then the same can be said with the Cargo Hold.

The Separate Cargo Hold has been debated before... we have NOT seen the Underside of the Derelict, and its obvious the Derelict and Juggernaut have Differences so we CANT assume they are the Same.

They could be similar but have different Functions, and so we could Speculate that their is a Separate Cargo Hold that is Attached under the Derelict and the Ship then would have to just DROP off the Cargo Hold which could then maybe Open up like the Xenomorph Egg does and allows the Eggs to be accessed easier by anything that gets Curious.

This would make Sense, and would maybe FIX the issue of the Cargo Hold Size and HOW it could not FIT in the Ship.

But i think it would remain as just a Oversight we have to Accept, maybe the Space Jockey Size likewise.

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

BigDave

Aug-05-2019 9:21 AM

@MonsterZero

I think it depends on HOW is David going to be connected... i am not sure they would be giving us Biblical Relics and looking at your comments its seems you Speculate the Derelict had been there for a LONG TIME before David and that he has some Agenda to access the Ship.

I think thats a OPTION... if say the Ship was already there, the Engineer revealed to be infected with something more like the Neomorph or a Deacon.

David arrives, has to Access the Cargo Hold and indeed causes the HOLE... he then does something to Activate the Urns so they Dissolve/Explode like in Alien Covenant but David also has some of his Eggs in that Hold so that they become INFECTED with the Explosion and so the DNA of those Eggs is spread across the Cargo Hold and then we see those EGGS start to grow!

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

MonsterZero

Aug-05-2019 10:29 AM

@BigDave

And if David(or whatever) didn't create the HOLE then the Nostromo's crew wouldn't have found the eggs....(probably headed back to the Nostromo The End...boring movie).

Daniels or T could have created the HOLE...Escaping from David ....or they are also looking for something?

 I just think that would be kind of neat and tie the prequels together.

The only reason this (w)hole mess started was finding the eggs. 

David = Peter Weyland and Peter like his Earth relics...So I think David would be interested the manifest.

BigDave

Aug-05-2019 3:29 PM

I get the impression that Weyland may have sort after Relics for a show of Power/Ownership like Owning a Priceless Piece of Art.

I dont think he finds any Value in them purely on a Religious Standpoint...  He would be INTERESTED in a Relic that could be of some Great Use to him...  if he believed this Relic held certain POWERS.... but maybe that would be Stepping a bit too much into the INDIAN JONES kind of Shoes...

I think we also have to NOT try and consider the Franchise as connecting too much to ANY certain Religion or Mythos but more in that there are Events related to the Engineers that had been passed down and interpreted as the basis for Various Mythos and Religions.

So in that Context, i think sure there may be Technology, and other Advancements or Tools the Engineers had that could have given RISE to various Stories of Certain Relics.

So looking at Peter Weyland and Prometheus... it seems there could be ONE Relic he would have hoped to Find! (if he believed in it that is).

That would be a Elixir of Life this would indeed be the Basis of WHY he wanted to meet the Gods... so they can Grant him more LIFE!  So indeed if David was to Discover something like this Exists and were to Find It maybe that could be Interesting....  it could be something that inspired things such as the Holy Grail.

What kind of Manifest to you think was so interesting to Peter Weyland?

In Regards back to the Acid Hole... i do think looking at the Image i made a few posts back, that it could open up the possibility of either..

*Someone goes to the Derelict after the Incident but prior to the Nostromo

*Some kind of Sabotage prior to the Derelict Incident.

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

MonsterZero

Aug-05-2019 5:14 PM

'*Someone goes to the Derelict after the Incident but prior to the Nostromo'

 

I could see a exploration/salvage crew visiting the derelict in the late 21'st century(2090's?) and finding the Space Jockey...But no hole...And unable to 'explore/salvage' anything, they leave(going back to get tools?)......then caught by something (monster or just bad weather)and never get the chance to report or stake a claim. 

You could start the movie like that. Giving the audience a clear idea that the hole and access to the eggs came just before the Nostromo.

Jones -standing before the large seated alien  "As incredible as this is.....There's nothing here......"

Captain Randle - "No.... there is something...keep recording...I'm going back for some cutting tools...."

I could imagine LV426 is still haunted by many aliens....A whole colony underground...The black goo seeped deep.

What kind of Manifest to you think was so interesting to Peter Weyland?

You are absolutely right about the Indiana Jones angle and I would probably avoid having the relic something 'magical'

I guess the answer would be: What would the Engineers find of value from a backwater world......Something that would date the last time the derelict was in action? What would the audience recognize? A child's doll? A sword?

Or video footage of Jesus?  Dinosaurs? All of human history recorded on holodisc would be cool.

chli

Aug-05-2019 9:34 PM

BigDave

I agree that organic material merges together over time and therefore it would be “hard to tell where the suit ends and the wearer begins”. But, at least it seems to rule out David: “it’s not a synthetic”.

As for the eggs in the cargo hold, I don’t think they would carry them one by one. They would probably have some high-tech device for this. And if we think in terms of egg-morphing, only one egg would be enough to eradicate all life on a planet.

BigDave

Aug-06-2019 7:37 AM

@chli

Certainly you would Speculate that would have some means of Safe Transportation of Eggs.  Something that Alien Covenant had shown was that there was SMALLER EGGS.

So if we was to Ignore Alien Covenant as Canon or imply David had obtained a Smaller Egg...  If we assume that the Eggs can START off as SMALL and then Grow, that makes for Easy Transport to the Cargo Hold.

But we still have the Problem of HOW do they get them OUT of the Ship.  We can Speculate many things, that they have some Device for doing this, that they have a Separate Cargo Hold that is deployed and then OPENS up.

The dropping them like Bombs sounds ODD!

However.......  what if we took Ridley Scotts word for how he claimed the Xenomorph could Regenerate?

I have said before that sounds SILLY... and maybe a similar and better way would be from there Remains as they Die/Killed they Break Down/Decompose and from this we see NEW EGGS Grow!

Making them like Cabbages.. you could Cut a Cabbage into many pieces and they would Re-Grow into Clones.

So if a Egg can Regrow in a Similar Way then Dropping the Eggs would be NO PROBLEM.. from the Waste of the Dropped Eggs, eventually more Eggs would Sprout..

That would be a Easy Explanation a Very Convenient one.

"But, at least it seems to rule out David: “it’s not a synthetic”.

If the NOVEL is classed as 100% Canon... to a degree YES

However as Ignorantguy pointed out the Walter Models could be somewhat Organic, a Synthetic Construct like Eldon from Fire and Stone.  And if this is revealed to be the case then a Walter-Morph could be the Answer to the more Bio-Mechanical Xenomorph and also could allow for a Walter Body to become the Space Jockey.

While this would FIT with the Prometheus Themes and become a Hubris for David... i think him becoming the Space Jockey would be something else that WONT sit well with Fans...  It would in effect be TWISTING the KNIFE so to Speak.

We also have the Height Difference.... which is Larger than our Engineers but again we maybe have to accept this as a Oversight as Dallas said it SEEMED like he had GROWN out of the Chair.

We could see Taller Engineers, or a Taller related Race who will become the Space Jockey..... or maybe David could Create the Space Jockey?

I do wonder HOW-FAR ahead they thought this out when they decided to go the David had Created the Xenomorph route?

Again we have NOT had the Conclusion, and with things like in the Novels and Inconstancy they could CHANGE things Once Again by the Time and IF we ever get a Conclusion.

I think it should remain a Mystery...

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

BigDave

Aug-06-2019 7:51 AM

@MonsterZero

I think Certainly we could explore that the HOLE was made after the Space Jockey had Set Down on LV-426 and had Died!

The Hole does look like it was Melted a Bit... but then again i GUESS a Powerful Laser Cutting Tool could MELT the Metal so that it appears in the way the Hole looks.

"What would the Engineers find of value from a backwater world"

Are you implying they Left Something on Earth, or they had something Related to the Time Spent on Earth that was on the Derelict before it Crashed?

We know they have Holo-Recording Technology and most Scientist would Record their Advancements or Experiments via both taking down Notes/Drawings but also Visually Recording.

So we have to assume the Engineers could have done similar.

I am not sure it would be WISE to indicate that Actually Jesus Existed and Try to showcase him in the Biblical Light, but that HE was a being the Engineers used as a Emissary a Hybrid, a Selected Human they had Augmented somehow and allowed him to have certain Powers.

Revealing Various Accounts of Emissaries though-out Earth who look more Human but have been Given a ROLE by the Engineers with Genetic Enhancements as Part of that Deal and Technology that could be seen as Miracles would be more Fitting.

Revelation of this would caused CHAOS to Religion but so could the release of Information about Discovering the Engineers

The Scientific Community would want to obtain any Tools these Emissaries had for their own Benefit, and would also like to KNOW it was that these beings were MADE different and Enhanced to Normal Humans.

If David could discover these, then he could Engineer a New Race of Humans.

PS... sorry for being OFF-TOPIC

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

MonsterZero

Aug-06-2019 8:28 AM

David created the Xeno(that was aboard the Nostromo), he MUST have have been aboard the juggernaut before or after, it crashed on LV426.

I think this is canon?

Unless Walter or someone else assumes Davids role?

 

BigDave

Aug-06-2019 3:47 PM

We have yet to Conclude the Prequels at the Moment, Ridley Scott had claimed that we are backing into ALIEN and by the Time the Prequels are Completed we will KNOW who is in the Chair.

RS had also said we are like 2 maybe 3 Movies away from ALIEN, which means we have to go through 2-3 more Movies before we arrive at WHO is in the Space Jockey Chair.

Taking this into Account, it appears that RS is taking us on a route that WITHOUT the Experiments that David had conducted on Planet 4 there would be NO Xenomorphs.

This however does-not mean that it would be David in the Space Jockey Chair, or that David is the one who LOADS the Eggs on the Derelict.

It just appears that David's Xenomorphs will END UP on the Derelict, but a few things to NOTE... is that RS had claimed the Xenomorph has some Evolving to do YET, it is NOT yet the Organism we see in ALIEN.

Another thing to Consider is IF the Plan was that WITHOUT our David there would be NO Xenomorph, then we NEED a Engineer Ship to come into play...

Regarding the Sequel we had RS indicated that it would NOT be about the Xenomorph, David would be off to Planet and what "Kind of a World" would he Create.. we have to assume he means that David is off to Origae-6.

RS had said that 3/4 Incoming Parties will be arriving at where David goes, and ONE of these are the Engineers who are AFTER the Culprit for the Destruction of Planet 4..  it is LIKELY this will Provide us the Derelict or another Engineer Ship that will then lead to the Derelict being obtained from LV-223.

What i am saying is that its Likely that David goes to Origae-6 some Engineers Turn Up... I DOUBT that RS would KILL OFF our David in the Next Movie so its likely at some point the David (some how) gets the Better of Engineers or comes to a Covenant with them or is Captured by them...

Either way the Engineers with David will go to LV-223, or David using a Engineers Ship will go to LV-223 and this would be were essentially Alien Covenant 3 would take place... or Alien Covenant 4

somehow Davids Creation will get Evolved its a case of by WHO/HOW?  by David, by the Engineers (or related) or by WHAT/WHO he Creates in Alien Covenant 2?

Then as far as WHO/HOW the Eggs end up on the Derelict again it is likely ONE of those THREE mentioned above.

But this appeared to be the Route that Ridley Scott was taking, we dont know if RS will be involved in the Prequels from Now On... or IF they are to be Finished any time soon.

So by the Time we see another Prequel Planned, a LOT could change including the PLOT.

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

BigDave

Aug-10-2019 5:24 PM

I think going back to the OT, some part i assume your indication is the Novel rules out David as Marlow says its not Synthetic, and also mentioning the 16ft Size.

It also Mentions a Suit... 

I know some Fans are Disappointed its a Suit, but then look at the Space Jockey and imagine what Species this Skeleton would Belong too?  It could look a bit SILLY.

Then its HOW is it connected to the Chair?

I am sure some remember this interpretation in some of the Comics from way back.... is this better than a Bio-Mechanical Suit?

So i think we need to remember HR Giger and his Aesthetic of Organic meets Mechanical...

The Xenomorph and Especially from ALIEN is Bio-Mechanical.

so another Option for the Space Jockey could be a revelation of a Bio-Mechanical Being.... No Skeleton, No Suit... but a Totally Living Bio-Mechanical Entity.

Some of HR Gigers works carry some Space Jockey look and Aesthetic, and so maybe a Revelation of a Ancient Bio-Mechanical Race as the Space Jockey could be the way to FIX things.

 

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

chli

Aug-11-2019 7:48 AM

Actually, Marlow says that “it’s not a synthetic. It’s definitely a life form” (“synthetic” with “a” in front).

I also believe that Scott focused on the aesthetics of Giger. How it looked (bio-mechanical). Not that it was a combination of biology and mechanical parts. The xenomorph in Alien looked bio-mechanical but was certainly biological - an organism with secretion and drooling jaws.

When David experiments (on Shaw for example) I imagine there would be a combination of biology and mechanical apparatus, tubes etc . . .

BigDave

Aug-12-2019 6:09 AM

I think thats a Good Point... it is a bit odd how he would say "its no a synthetic" as why would they ever consider that this ALIEN Ship would be Piloted by a Synthetic, so if they said "its not Synthetic" that would make sense, but as he said its Not A Synthetic we have to consider he meant as in NOT a Synthetic Android, but its like would they had been Expecting One?

So we have to Wonder how much had they known about the Ship etc before they arrived to come out with a comment like that?Unless when they saw the Chair and how the Space Jockey was attached by Wires, they first thought it must be some kind of Synthetic Robot, but close inspection it was more Organic and NOT a Synthetic.


But i think what it ULTIMATELY comes down to is the Author using some Dialog to Clear up some things and so they had placed that Dialog to Indicate that the Space Jockey is in NO-WAY a Synthetic Android.

A indication that its NOT going to be David, which is not the best thing to put, as it would be Good to leave it Ambiguous until the Conclusion so WHEN/IF we get a Continuation some Fans may Expect its going to be David only to then be relieved that it DOES-NOT

Looking at what you have put from the Novel i think its the Author attempting to push us towards certain things.

"The human form was huge - at least 16 feet tall"

This is a Narration of the Scene, indicating the Space Jockey is Humanoid (well Bi-Pedal) and to indicate it is HUGE, the Thing is the Space Jockey Chair was 16ft, its Unlikely the Space Jockey is but we DONT see his Legs so we cant assume how LONG they are in Proportion to his Body... it does-not matter much, all this Narration seems intended to do is indicate the Pilot is certainly LARGE (Rules Out David, a Human and our Engineers from the Prequels).

"and it had been there a long time. It looked like a fossil”. Its ribcage had exploded outwards"

When the Fossil Comment is used its usually to indicate that it looks Skeletal and that its been there a LONG Time, actually it would be more like it was Mummified, the Indication here by the Author is to lead us to the Space Jockey had been there a LONG TIME... certainly what appears to be more than say 30 YEARS.

"it’s hard to tell where the suit ends and the wearer begins, but it’s not a synthetic. It’s definitely a life form”

This clearly shows a Indication that we are dealing with a Space Suit, but one that is Organic more than None-Organic where its hard to tell what is the Organic Suit or the Wearer.

This does fit well with the Concept Work, there are some Differences between the Engineers Suits, and Space Jockey, there are some Differences between the Juggernaut and Derelict.

The Juggernaut/Engineers appear to be LESS Organic, there are also some Size Differences...

These could come down to just OVERSIGHT...

If we look beyond that and try and Logically look at the Differences then we would likely have to Conclude.

1) They are the Same/Similar but over Time the Suit/Ship had Warped/Changed shape, grown and changed, this could make sense if they are Organic to a Degree, but WHAT could change the Composition/Size of the Ship/Suit in a Short Time.   But it could be something that could CHANGE over a LONG period of Time... which has to be more Longer than Thousands of Years as the Dead Engineer Suits in Prometheus had not changed.

2) They are some what Different, like a Newer/Older Model a Technological Evolution, but i dont see the Engineers Technology Changing VERY Often, so its not like say the Juggernauts were part of Different Models they bring out every Few Thousand Years, its Unlikely the Derelict is thus a Newer Model that came out only a Few Thousand Years ago.  It appear more likely the Derelict seemed like a more Ancient Model.

3)  It could appear we are looking at a Older slightly different Technology that is more Organic, this could maybe draw us to Conclude that the Derelict is a more Ancient Technology than the Juggernauts, that they belonged to a different Race to the Engineers (or Variant)

But who knows what we would END UP with.... going the Route that the Derelict Aesthetically is the same Technology as a Juggernaut (Created/Engineered at the around same Time) that then has ONLY been on LV-426 for like 10-15 years MAX and the Pilot is a 8ft Engineer never mind a Human or Human Synthetic, is surely a Very Difficult Oversight to Accept.

So those remarks from the NOVEL are a indication by the Author to show that we are dealing with a Humanoid, that is inside a 16ft Space Suit that is Organic in its Material and has been there for a VERY Long Time.

Taking the NOVEL as 100% Canon, and looking at ALIEN, it would appear we could ASSUME we are looking at Ancient Ship, with a Ancient 13-16ft Pilot that has been there for more than a FEW Thousand Years.

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

BigDave

Aug-12-2019 10:11 AM

Thought i would Quickly try and do a Comparison, this does have a Margin of Error, it also assumes Space Jockey has same Proportions as the Engineer Suit.

Also assumes Production Worker is about 6ft

This would Indicate the Space Jockey to be about 14.5 Feet Tall, with a Margin of Error it would appear the Actual Size could be about 15ft.

I always thought the Chair was 16ft, i cant remember where but it was described as such, i know the ONE in Prometheus was 15ft as far as Concept i will work out after what it was in Reality but it seems to be about 16ft.

All in all from what i have attempted to do, would mean the Space Jockey is Approximately the same 15ft that the Engineers were Described as from the Earlier Drafts.

This was the Intention, the Trailer Sacrificial Bowl on the Alter is Scaled to make the Engineers about 15ft if we assume the same one was used by the Sacrificial Engineer Scene.

likewise the Head they Examined on the Lab Table was LARGER than the Prometheus Engineer portrayed by Ian Whyte, i will have to work it out again, but when i did it before that HEAD would have been to a 10ft Engineer Scale.

This could be used to simply explain that WHILE we have Different Sized Humans... if the Engineers are on Average 25% Taller than a Human, then indeed some Engineers could stand 10 Feet Tall.

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

hox

Aug-12-2019 11:30 AM

@BigDave, don't forget that space-suited children were used in the Space Jockey scene, not 6 feet adults. I reckon the Space Jockey is supposed to be at least 20ft long.

BigDave

Aug-12-2019 4:23 PM

Certainly HOX...

That was indeed the Intention... but this was UNDONE.. by Ridely Scotts approach to Shooting and Scale...

Where close up we see the Space Jockey Mysteriously Shrunk by 1/3rd.

Same Problems happened with Prometheus.. the Intention at Shooting was a 10ft Race... some Scenes showed us that Actually we have a 8ft Race.

The Intention was a 26ft Space Jockey but in Reality what we got in ALIEN was a 22ft Giant that then appeared to be 15ft at Close Up.

Ridley Scott should have used ANOTHER Prop for the Close up that was 33% Larger.... but this would have been beyond Budget.

The Difference is considered a OVERSIGHT... we simply where not to be paying too much attention.

Upon IF/WHEN they would ever introduce the Space Jockey Race or go back to the Derelict again, then they would have to Choose, do we go for a 22ft Race or a 15ft.

When they began the Prequels they decided to go for a 15ft and so actual Prop Size... so the Smaller Children in suits shot was considered a Oversight.

This got Revised down to 12ft in Later Drafts, then intended as 10ft for Shooting but again another Mistake of Scale and we ended up with 8ft Engineers (Suited).

Again RS should have used LOTR/Hobbit Special Effects and Camera Trickery.

By the Time we get to the Space Jockey Event at the Rate of being 2-3 more Movies away.... then we may see Warwick Davies eventually playing the Space Jockey ;)

Here is roughly how the Space Jockey size has changed.

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

hox

Aug-13-2019 1:21 AM

LOL!

I can forgive the close-up mismatch for the reason that - in that shot - there's no general impression of the overall scale of the creature. Likewise, the dropping of the original giant.

The real problem, one that's tricky to surmount, is the mismatch between Prometheus reality and the Alien distant shot.

There is a way out: the Space Jockey is not an Engineer.

I was always very disappointed that the utterly alien Space Jockey was ostensibly a human in a suit. Giger's original vision was so much better than that.

If I had my way with the future direction of the story...

Space Jockeys (and variants thereof) are a completely different and ancient species. They are to the Engineers as Engineers are to us. The Engineers hijacked their technology, including the ability to grow spaceships and engineer life. Being a religious bunch, they revere the Space Jockeys and even go so far as to imitate them, right down to the elephant masks they wear. Of course, the Engineers are much smaller, and they don't grow out of a pilot's chair in the same way that the Space Jockey does. They don't have the very obvious creeping growths over their arms that blend with the seat, for example.

More importantly, this is a more interesting story line! Imagine if Space Jockeys are the tip of the iceberg, and they have different castes and forms themselves. Endless possibilities for truly alien and shocking manifestations. Do you remember the very first time you saw the Space Jockey in his chamber? How utterly surreal and scary that was. We need more truly alien concepts to arise in the franchise.

BigDave

Aug-13-2019 7:28 AM

I certainly can see where you are coming from, the Space Jockey Scene was Enigmatic, Awe Inspiring the Scale especially when the Crew entered the Pilot Chamber.....


The Scale seemed more Awe Inspiring in the First Shots, the Space Jockey would have been in the 20-22ft Ball Park.  Compared to the Prop would have made it a 14-15ft Being.

When doing any Sequel/Prequel that would either Answer the Space Jockey Mystery or have us be introduced to their Species would be something that would be more EXPENSIVE to portray as a 20ft+ Species.

It certainly is possible nowadays compared to in the 80's/90's but it would be much Easier with a 15ft Space Jockey... If there is to be a LIVE one that interacts with Humans.

When working on the Prequels they introduced the Space Jockey as the Engineers Giant Bald Humanoids who stood 15ft Tall.... if they had pulled off this Scale on Screen with the use of Various Effects like say Game of Thrones and Lord of the Rings had used, then i DONT think the Problems would have been as bad... (regarding the Space Jockey).

Some are Disappointed that we got Bald Humanoids...

But this is the Concept that HR Giger had gone for in 1978..

The Space Jockey had Changed over the Years....

*Started off as a Alien Skeleton of a Species who had attempted to take some Eggs/Spores back to the Ship for Study.

*Evolved to a more Humanoid looking Skeleton.

*Then RS did Story Boards that had been inspired by one of HR Gigers Works.

*HR Giger then came in to Redesign this to the Space Jockey we got in the above image...  looking like some kind of Space Suit at this point.

*Production began and the Space Jockey head came across more Organic/Skeletal, which combined with the Ribcage lead to Speculate it was a Skeleton (Dallas Fossil Comment seemed a confirmation).

BUT then we had Ridley Scott say a long while back it was a SPACE SUIT, and when work began on the Prequels this was the Idea they ran with...

But the Problem was our 15ft Humanoid Space Suited Space Jockeys got down sized to 8ft the Illusion intended to be 9-10ft but they FAILED just as much as the intention of a 26ft Space Jockey in ALIEN.

A Number of Fans are NOT pleased with the Space Jockey, certainly the Revelation does-not add up to the Expectation.

*Some thought it should be a SKELETON of some Tapir looking Alien Species or Elephantine.

*Some Fans dont-mind it being a Space Suit but dont like the Revelation of the Wearer being a Bald Human looking Race.

*Most Fans seem to Feel that the SCALE is off and that the True Space Jockey should have been some True Giant of at least 15ft in Size.

Its a case of OVERSIGHT and IF they would ever consider introducing the Space Jockey from ALIEN as different to a 8ft Humanoid in a Space Suit.

For me the SCALE is the issue i have...

Introduce other Race connected to the Engineers that can be as Human Looking but make them about 12ft and for me that would do...

Other than that, i would welcome the Occupants inside the SUIT to be much Less Human Looking.... OR the Space Jockey is a Bio-Mechanical Being like the Xenomorph was.

But NO to any Skeleton!

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

BigDave

Aug-13-2019 7:47 AM

"There is a way out: the Space Jockey is not an Engineer"

And TIP of the Ice Berg!

Certainly ;)

I think that is a way to FIX things, the Space Jockey as a 13-16ft Species who are either Bio-Mechanical in Nature like how the Xenomorph appears and Sil from Species.

Or a Not-So Human looking Species under the Suit, we could even have a None Human Bio-Mechanical Species under the Suit.

Certainly we could Reveal that this Species had either Created the Engineers for a Purpose, they maybe Rebelled and Continued to use the Technology the Space Jockey Race had Created/Engineered for the Engineers to use.

Or the Engineers encountered the Space Jockey and had Stolen/Reverse Engineered their Technology.

So i think we need another LAYER to that Cake, and one which gets back to being more ALIENY and HP Lovecraftian.

HR Giger has a Wealth of Art that could be Influence for for a New Species.

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

hox

Aug-13-2019 9:09 AM

Now you're talking.

MonsterZero

Aug-13-2019 9:11 AM

So what is the Space Jockeys 'job'?

It's not the pilot(David was able to fly a Juggernaut)..

What is canon?

BigDave

Aug-13-2019 12:19 PM

The Space Jockey was referred to as the PILOT, that certainly was its JOB , what Prometheus had indicated to us (IF we assume the Space Jockey and Engineers have same Function) is that Prometheus showed us that the Engineers use their Suits for MORE than just a Pilot Suit.  They did-not need them on the Surface of LV-223, the  Complex on LV-223 and Juggernaught had a Enviroment that could Support Life, well breathable to Humans.

So the Suit being NEEDED to Breath seems Unlikely, unless to Conserve Resources ONCE they set a Destination the Turn-Off their Life-Support and so use the Suit to Breath?

The other use we see in Prometheus is some kind of Bio-Hazzard Suit, maybe to Protect them from their Bio-Weapons, but Certainly so they DONT effect their Bio-Weapons/Experiments.

I can see the Point your trying to Raise with David... its actually a Very Good Point... something thats Obviously a Plot Convenience

David does-not Breath so he would NOT need a Suit.

We dont see him getting into any Suit... could it connect to a Synthetic?

We see the Space Jockey Suit (Pilot Chair one) connects the Pilot to the Chair, for some Purpose.

Now the ALIEN Prop differs a little as far as HOW the Head/Helmet is attached to the Chair, the Concept does show what is the Space Jockey Head Connected, but we dont get to see this as clear (lack Wires etc) in ALIEN.  It looks connected via the Arms in both though.

In Prometheus we got the Revelation that the Helmet is Permanently Connected/Fused with the Chair and it encases around the Pilot.

The point i am trying to raise is WHAT is the purpose of this Connection, does it connect to the Pilots Brain, does it Function as some kind of Life Support System?

The End of Prometheus, more so The Crossing would indicate the Ship can be Controlled without maybe having to be Connected to the Chair....

If the Suit Provides some Electrical Connection a Mind/Data Transfer-link to the Pilot, then HOW does this work with a Synthetic?  Can a Suit Connect and Interact with a Synthetic as it does a Engineer?

Does it merely provide Life Support which David would NOT need and so he simply would-not need to use the Suit?

We can only Speculate..

Prometheus also introduces us to the Engineer Ships having more than a Pilot, it could be the Pilot Chair is needed to get the Ship Up. and then they go into Cryo-sleep..... but how does David do this in TWO Parts? (Head/Body)

The Derelict is NOT exactly the same though, it lacks any signs of other Crew and Cryo-Pods but they could be located in other places on that Model of Ship.

some Speculated that as of ALIEN the Pilot is Permanently Fused with the Chair this is the Impression that some had, which included James Cameron..  However HOW would the Pilot had got Infected?  The only way if they was Fused with the Chair for Life would be a Face Hugger made it to the Pilot Room, but how did it then Infect the Pilot? (Easy if this is a Skeleton) but thats not the case.

This does-not matter as the idea is that the PILOT can Leave the Chair and they merely become Fused with it when they Sit/Activate it... but can Disconnect/Leave the Chair.

So its likely that either David could connect to the Suit, or that the Suits connection to the Chair is NOT required for the Control of the Ship but for other Purposes.

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

chli

Aug-13-2019 12:24 PM

To be honest, to me, the Space Jockey looks just as it did to Dallas (and others): like a fossil which has been dead a long time (even if a petrified or desiccated skeleton might be more correct).

I wonder, those of you who are in favour of a suit and a mask which are organic in nature, do you see them as part of a living, organic ship (the Derelict). If the ship is grown (like a vegetable) and like a living organism, the suit and mask are as well?

Why then do the suit and mask look dead (yellowish) and merged with the dead body inside (so you can't tell them apart)?

The cockpit and the rest of the ship has a more bluish tone, more humid and looks more "alive".

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