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David- Sympathizing with a Psychopath?

David- Sympathizing with a Psychopath?

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dk

Jul-10-2019 2:40 PM

Much has been discussed about David and it is always interesting. 

For your consideration, here is a very short sci fi piece that could give some more insight of how David viewed humanity, himself and Dr Shaw.

 

Here is the link if the embed fails: 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t_t6aoGIQGk

 

  

 

10 Responses to David- Sympathizing with a Psychopath?

BigDave

Jul-11-2019 7:01 AM

I can see some comparisons with David, certainly ABE had become Psychotic i think its a ok Video i am not sure what his Actions are in connection to making People Love him apart from maybe to Torture/Force them?

It does highlight a potential Problem if a Robot gains Emotions, we Humans have Emotions and everyone can react to Certain Emotions in Different Ways, some people can be overwhelmed by Emotions.

Some Emotions can be very Powerful and Extreme, and these include LOVE, HATE, RAGE but also JEALOUSY so some Emotions can be VERY Negative.

It is Helpful if a Robot can have EMPATHY but Empathy is something that is Emotional Related there are some Mental Related Disorders that Suffers can Struggle with Empathy.

Getting a AI/Robot to have Empathy, Love and Compassion would be a complex Task... once they gain these Emotions they could be Positive but then what kind of Programing would allow for a Human like Response of these Emotions in a AI?

What happens if this leads to other Negative Emotions?

Can a AI Programed with such Emotions really feel and Understand them as a Human Can?  And could they be Overwhelmed by them or Miss-interpret them?

Another Problem is if a AI becomes Sentient and can think for itself and have its own Desires and Wants.... should a AI gain such and see itself as Truly Superior and then look at the Flaws of Mankind... then combine these with Emotions and you could be ASKING for Trouble and once that Genie is out of the Bottle your Screwed.

*Calling a Robot a Useless TIN-CAN

*Mocking a Robot for being a Glorified Toaster

*Treating a Robot like a Piece of Trash

Would have NO effect on a Robot in General, maybe even a Sentient One.... but towards a Robot who has Emotions and maybe Sentient could lead to them getting Upset just as a Human Would.

IF said Robot views itself as Superior to Humans, and sees the Flaws in Humans then this would be even Worse as far as Potential Response.

Once a AI/Robot that is Sentient, has Emotions and views Mankind as UN-Worthy and 2nd Class then your in Potential Trouble.

Humans have various Emotional Responses and Dont Always get what they want and so can feel Hurt, Unhappy at certain things...

You could have a Human lets call him Bob who has been a close friend to a Girl called Suzi, he develops more than Platonic Feelings for her over Time, he has always been there through the Times that Men have treated her so Badly.  She keeps going back to One Partner who treats her Bad and keeps getting Hurt/Used and she always has Bob for a Shoulder to Cry On.

One Day Bob confesses his Love for Her, saying she should be with HIM and that he would Never Treat her Bad....  She Rejects Him, goes back to her Partner, and he Confronts Bob.... Bob then lashes out at that Male...  and Warns him NOT to see Suzi or else!

The Girl Suzi then confronts Bob tells him to STAY out of her Business and NEVER talk to her Again!

In some cases like this Bob could soon get Emotionally Overwhelmed by the Rejection an Jealousy and the LOVE he had could turn to HATE!

Now if BOB was a Robot or say a Robot had Human Emotions and that Scenario, and BOB/Robot knew that they was Vastly Superior to Humans and so would be a bit  Narcissistic they would feel that the Female should consider that being a Love Interest would be a Great Privilege and Jump at the Chance, and that she should feel Lucky to be deemed Worthy of his Interest, and would feel it Completely Disrespectful to be Turned Down.

The Scenario with someone who is Narcissistic  and someone in Power a King or feel they are Superior could lead to a Exaggerated Reaction.

I think this is Similar to what became of David.

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

ignorantGuy

Jul-11-2019 7:26 AM

Abe sure fits perfectly Einstein's definition of insanity, that one with doing the same thing over and over again expecting different results. Why don't horror robots try methods used by cults like drugs and such to alter human behaviour? 

And why did not the robot try first to alter himself to not need for love, to overcome his program? Because it is a cliched story.

BigDave

Jul-11-2019 8:54 AM

Excellent Points Ignorant Guy

I think Abe should have just looked on Plenty of Dish (Washers) for another Robot, or invest his time in Creating a Robot to Love him back!

He seems Very interested in the Human Females Though, so if he FOUND or Created a Robot like him a Female with similar Feelings/Emotions and ONE day he was CAUGHT paying attention to Female Humans..

Well he could end up being PUT on the Scrapheap by his Jealous/Insecure Mrs Abe ;)

Would she then start to Capture Human Males then?

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

dk

Jul-11-2019 10:20 PM

It is not a perfect short, and Ignorant Guy's point is valid and BigDave makes great points too. But I think it gives food for thought.

Humans are flawed- how can humanity create perfection? Other than math and science, it seems it cannot. 

It therefore seems unreasonable that humans could create something perfect like themselves (humanity has such a perfect record). Why should we expect perfection? 

Thanks BigDave and Ignorant Guy- the engagement and insights are very interesting!

ignorantGuy

Jul-12-2019 1:57 AM

dk How are math and science perfect? Scientific theories had and will replace each other, perfecting the whole thing as it goes, as will learn more. So theories can not be even put together like relativity and quantum theory. Why math is not perfect is more complicated but one can read about Godel's incompleteness theorems to see why.

So why still talk about perfection? Because Hollywood types love tropes and particularly this tormented artist thing. Maybe because they themselves are not true artists, who knows? 

To talk about perfection in a nightmarish capitalist hell hole like Alien or Blade Runner is even stranger because big companies tend to make products with built-in obsolescence so they could sell more. But selling does not seem to be important for these "sinister" capitalist. Just look and Luv (the best, yawn!), she is in sells calls one moment after that she kills 2 people in the police HQ. That sure is good for business. 

BigDave

Jul-15-2019 6:25 AM

There is Indeed nothing like Perfection... we could get something we consider Perfect but that could be down to each persons Taste, there is nothing that is Perfect for everyone.

Because you can always find ways to make something deemed Perfect, even more Perfect so you NEVER really can achieve such.

The Thing that Perfection offers is the Drive and Ambition to Pursue Perfection, its what drives us on to Improve things we have already Achieved.  You will NEVER achieve Perfection but the Pursuit of it will allow for Improvements over what we currently have.

So we would Strive for Perfection even though we know we can NEVER Truly obtain it.

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

BigDave

Jul-15-2019 7:12 AM

Alien Covenant Trailer Song

There was a boy, A very strange enchanted boy

(David does appear like a Boy at times in Prometheus and he certainly is a bit Strange and Enchanted).

They say he wandered very far, very far,
Over land and sea

(we know David has been on this Journey to Planet 4)

A little shy and sad of eye, But very wise was he

(He did at times come across a bit Shy, maybe he was a bit Sad at his mistreatment and indeed he would have amassed many years of Knowledge).

And then one day, A lucky day he passed my way


Then we spoke of many things, Fools and kings

(certainly think about how he could have talked about how Foolish Weyland was, and indeed the Ozymandias Poem could come to mind when talking about Fallen Foolish Kings)

Then he said to me:
"The greatest thing you'll ever learn
Is to love and be loved in return"

(this certainly fits with David, he had felt that he was unloved by many including his own Creator, and he had saw Kindness from Elizabeth Shaw, and he felt Love for her.... but ALAS she never felt the same Love back for him).

So to a degree the Nature Boy Song does kind of Fit with David, maybe it was NOT a Coincidence this Track was chosen for the Trailer?

Then he said to me:
"The greatest thing you'll ever learn
Is to love and be loved in return"

Could this play a Part in his Agenda going forwards as far as "what kind of a World" he would Create... which he said to Daniels in reply to her asking what kind of a World can they create "if we are kind it will be a kind world"

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

hox

Jul-15-2019 9:45 AM

@BigDave, you can't believe a word David says! By any definition he is an all out psychopath who will say and do anything to achieve his ends. I do wonder, though, whether he might have turned out very differently had his creator been a little kinder... We see at the beginning of Covenant, shortly after his inception, where Weyland deliberately instructs him to pour the tea: you are nothing more than a slave. And in Prometheus, Weyland humiliates him in front of the entire crew by pointing out that David will never have a soul. With a lifetime of hearing Try Harder, is it any wonder he came to regard his makers as pitiful?

Actually, on the matter of a soul, I think Weyland is dead wrong about that. It's clear that David is a fully fledged sentient AI capable of independent thought and creativity. From my perspective, the hardware doesn't really matter, soft grey matter or silicon, a soul is a soul. And when Shaw asks him the question "What will you do when Weyland isn't around to program you any more?" I think she's barking up the wrong tree. It's clear that David is in actuality self-programming himself all the time. A little like we all are.

BigDave

Jul-16-2019 5:52 AM

" whether he might have turned out very differently had his creator been a little kinder"

Certainly that was kind of what i was trying to point out ;)

When he says to Daniels "if we are kind" then indeed he could be lying to HER.  Whatever plans he may have had are kind of in Trouble by Virtue that Daniels managed t Figure out it was NOT  her Walter by the time she was in Cryo-Sleep.

The indication from Prometheus was that indeed maybe David would NOT be so much a Problem if he in General Felt he was Treated better... but overtime he would see that he was Superior and Certainly would NOT want to Serve or be placed below Mankind on the Hierarchy Ladder.

The Main Thing that Ridley Scott seemed to be basing the Sequel on was "What Kind" of a World that David would Create/Build.   That would be about AI and NOT about the Xenomorph.

Could David be a KIND Father/God?

But in many Mythos and Religion we see that GOD may come across as KIND and Loving as long as they are Worshiped, Pleased....   Disobey the GODS and well they Certainly don't stay Benevolent to their Creations.

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

Ingeniero

Jul-16-2019 8:33 AM

Abe is a real downer with that saw.

Great short film dk.  Thank you for sharing.

I loved Luv ignorantGuy...especially the micro-pout she displayed at corporate when K made it clear he wasn't there to talk.  

She did seem to be an effective scalpel in carving out obstacles in front of business interests.  Nice pants too.  I even liked her bangs.

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