EDIT: I originally wrote this to celebrate this years ALIEN Day, however it wouldn’t post at that time, but now at last, everything appears to be back to normal for me!
Like many of you, last April I was looking forward to setting off for the PROMETHEUS & ALIEN double bill, which formed the first half of the Alien Super Ticket. Covenant was still a few weeks off and anticipation levels were somewhat high.
How time flies. This years ALIEN Day dawned rather forlorn in comparison. What do we have to look forward to now? Will another ALIEN prequel be forthcoming? If so, will Sir Ridders be at the helm? Will what started off so promisingly, the Prometheus mythos, ever be revisited and reach a satisfactory conclusion?
I thoroughly enjoyed seeing PROMETHEUS then ALIEN play out together on a cinema screen. I was reminded yet again, of how damned beautiful PROMETHEUS was. How fresh and refreshing this new chapter proved to be. I’ve said it before, but I will gladly repeat myself. I now view PROMETHEUS as a precious gem. Possibly a one-off, spectacular, multi-faceted, shiny diamond!
Ridley never gave us 25ft Space Jockeys, but I liked the Engineers. Their technology was beautiful, their architecture awe-inspiring. Everything felt connected to H.R. Gigers work. The creatures roots were clearly visible, yet they branched into fresh territory.
Ridley got so many things right. The landscapes, digital and practical effects, a production design second to none. Whether you dislike the characters or not, the story is interesting. Even more so, the potential future possibilities could have been mind-blowing!
For me, one of the most interesting aspects was the Black Pathogen, a highly mutable, liquid for creation. Its future capabilities were endless. Was it found or stolen by these Engineers, or created by them? I so looked forward to finding those answers & more.
There are many ways to continue its themes. To introduce other species (including 25ft Space Jockeys!) To have the Engineers return. To have David get the ending he so deserves. God knows, some of our members have come up with truly great concepts!
PROMETHEUS is six years old. In those few short years it has created much controversy, speculation and argument and has to be the most talked about Sci-fi movie to date!
I pray that it doesn’t get forgotten. For those of you who enjoyed and appreciated it, let’s hear it for PROMETHEUS!
"Let The Cosmic Incubation Begin" ~ H.R. Giger
"I think there was a lot of Scope about the Engineers, their Culture and Technology and where they are located throughout the Galaxy.... But it appears this Scope has been reduced with the Plot of Alien Covenant somewhat."
I'd say the Engineers are pretty much dead. I'd be shocked if they returned in large numbers, other than a space jockey or two.
WHY Origae 6?! This makes little sense.
Why not end AC with David instructing MUTHUR to change course?
David "MUTHUR, I've decided to change our final destination."
"Please set the course to the system I've indicated"
Image of LV426(or LV223..Or Earth)appears on the monitor.
I think this scenario would have created a large buzz in the community.
Perhaps this is the ending scene of Covenant 2?
Thanks for the Reply...
To reply to the first reply, indeed the Main Theme of Alien as far as what made the Franchise work, was not about Ripley or the Xenomorph... it was as your rightly mentioned about showing us Human Characters who find themselves in Dire/Deadly Situations they are not prepared for.
It goes a bit deeper than that though, its about that on one hand, but then we also have the Company Involvement which connects to the themes you say, but goes deeper by also showing us that its about Human Characters who are put into a situation they are not prepared for, by Greedy Corporate Types who think they can gain and Control/Use the situation to their advantage and a Hubris of underestimating and not really being prepared, but still constantly willing to risk the unsuspecting Characters to their own Gain.. well attempts to obtain a Xenomorph.
So its about Characters being put in Dire Situations, but also showing us how Greedy and Selfish Persons are willing to Jeopardize others to their own gain, but Ultimately to their own Folly.
The Prometheus and AI themes also stem into this when we think about it, as it shows about Creation and what a Hubris that is to Create and allow this Creation to be so close to yourself and think you can control it, but then it gets out of control.. This applies to Engineers and their Hubris of Creating us, and our Hubris in Creating David, and no doubt at some point his Hubris for Creating the Xenomorph.. it also applies to the Engineers for their Hubris for messing about with the Black Goo too, and could even extend this theme to who ever created the Engineers.
The AI aspect does not sit well with many, but i can see how and why RS is interested in it, because if we look at those Situations Ripley, the Crew of the Nostromo, Hadleys Hope, the Marines Sent in, those Prisoners on Fury 161 and those unaware Smugglers who are delivering those Hosts for the Xenomorph and then everyone on that Auriga Station...
It could be that IF Mankind/Weyland had not tried to Create a AI in their own image, then none of those situations would have arose.... i have a feeling RS would have also revealed the Greedy Corporation is AI Controlled.... But i know this may not sit well with many... It goes back further to the Engineers too... IF they never created Mankind... then none of this would have happened...
Those more common less Mighty Looking Engineers in Alien Covenant could well be the Engineer Society version of Mankind and those LV-223 Engineers could be their equivalent of David or Replicants... this is what RS comments draw me towards. So for those Space Hippie Engineers as some call them... IF they had not tried to Advanced Themselves/Create the LV-223 Engineers and also not Create Mankind, they would be all HAPPY and content living their Basic Ways of Life!
"I wish that the Xeno would have had a closer link to the Engineers than David because at least the Engineers look closer to the SJ than to David."
Firstly i agree, some may have felt the movie lacked Xenomorphs etc... and so they had to try and please those guys... but indeed as you mentioned and i have also numerous times... a little less ambiguity in the Xenomorph Connection and HELL what about a Xenomorph/Deacon or Neomorph like Monster to go around and KILL a few Humans and then get Killed in a pool of Acid Blood.. i think WOULD have made more a connection and gave the Fanboys a little something, so that then a Sequel could STEER AWAY having left a Prometheus that appeased more Fans with some Alieny Action and more Clues, and then allowed for a sequel to Venture to NEW ideas.
Regarding the SJ... to me it looked like a Suit the more you study it and especially reference HR Gigers Concepts... their does seem to be some Connection between the Engineers Bio-Mechanical Technology, Suits, Ships with the Xenomorph/Derelict.
But i think those in Control must have thought that having David being involved, is a way to INTRODUCE the more Mechanical Aesthetic to the Xenomorph, you just know this is the route they are going... Where we have to ask these Questions...
*Does the Engineers Pressure Suits (LV-223) connect to any Engineers, so could those on Planet 4, get into such a suit as Easy as Zipping on a Diving Suit? Or are those Engineers (LV-223) Engineered that way?
*Could they way those Engineers get into those suits or are Engineered to have that Bio-Mechanical Aesthetic, could this be achieved with a Human.. IF Humans are basically a match?
*Does the Engineers LV-223 Bio-Mechanical Pressure suits and connecting Space Jockey suits, only Merge Connect with Organic Material, such as a Engineer, Human... so there is NO-WAY David could be connected or evolved to have those Bio-Mechanical Suits?
*Now we are at this point.... and we assume the Pressure Suits are fitted, or Engineered or WHATEVER way they incorporate the Engineers... require/can only be applied to a Organic Lifeform.... then we can ASK... is WALTER in anyway partially Organic? What if we have a Synthetic Construct (Part Organic/Synthetic) could the Engineers Suits be applied to them... and also WHAT happens if the Black Goo comes into contact with a Synthetic Construct or if one gets Face Hugged?
I bring this up because i think this will be the END-GAME to show us how we get to our more Bio-Mechanical Xenomorph in ALIEN... which makes some Logical Sense, but also its something that i think will Split Fans.
Regarding David/AI and the Creator of the Xenomorph, indeed it takes what was once thought to be Ancient and very Alien as in NO connection to Earth or Mankind, and makes it now a Product of a Wayward Creation (David) that Mankind had created. There are themes at play here about Creation and Pursuit of a Perfect Creation, and so it can be Rescued by having those who created the Engineers Turn up and Witness what David has Created and Witness what kind of Creation David is, and then see Near Perfection in David and his Creation and THEY then take his Creation and EVOLVE/PERFECT it.. so David is playing just the Middle Man.
RS is trying to cover themes like Hubris of Creation, and Creating something that is then allowed or gains Free Thought, Free Will and becomes Sentient.
The other thing he is doing is trying to show us or ask us, what happens when a AI/Robot is Evolved so much that it has its own Independent Thought and so to consider that David has become a Synthetic Version of a Human... we are a Machine just Biological... are we also a AI as in our Origins are Artificially Created? and to show/blur the lines between what makes us different to David... David is more Human than a Chimpanzee as far as Appearance and Thinking and Emotion and Intelligence, yet we are Genetically connected to the APES. So its like looking at Mankind as Biological Machine and Brain, David as Synthetic Machine and Brain but both similar in Appearance only David is Superior to us in many ways..
But he cant Create (not Naturally/Sexually) and he does not have a SOUL... but then RS is then testing us to ask WHAT really is a Soul... and showing that Dr Shaw could not Create, but with the Engineers Black Goo she could.
Some of these ideas set with some fans, and some dont with others..... there is NO pleasing every FAN... i am sure as long as they Stick to the Basics... which is Good Characters and a Solid Story and Execute it well, then while not everyone gets what they want, it should at least conclude with a END and a decent movie... but then it potentially could NOT if they cant decide on a Direction and Stick to it.... and TRY and please everyone.... just make sure the Characters and how the Plot is Executed is done well and i think maybe we could go somewhere that would please most.
R.I.P Sox 01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017
"They could make a book out of it, it is not something that I would watch"
Indeed i think its one of those, when looking at your last part of the reply, the whole AI thing, may not be what you want from a ALIEN movie, for some fans the Engineers/Gods is not what they want from a ALIEN movie, for some they think a ALIEN movie has to be about the Xenomorph/Eggs.
What they had tried to do with the Prequels... was to give some Back-Ground to the Space Jockey, introduce the Gods/Engineers Plot, introduce a bit about Creation/Rebellion with Weyland and his Creation while also showing us HOW/WHEN/WHY the Xenomorph loosely came to be.
Then they changed things with Prometheus by Tone down the Xenomorph Connection, and NOT having any Eggs/Face Huggers and Xenomorphs... they wanted to use Prometheus as a BRIDGE a movie to TIE to the original Franchise... but then to go off and explore a New PROMETHEUS or what ever Franchise that would be less about the Xenomorph and events in the Alien Franchise.
For some Fans there were a number of Problems with this, some were not happy with WHO the Space Jockey Race was, many more thought a PREQUEL that connects to ALIEN should explain the Xenomorph Origins at LEAST which Prometheus did not do enough of..
Had this been done a bit more... then for some of those not happy with Prometheus, they would in part accept they have more Answers, and maybe then be willing to explore the Direction Prometheus would go off to... or choose to NOT want to explore all that stuff, but at least they have more Answers about the Xenomorph and then just wait until IF/WHEN a ALIEN as in Xenomorph movie ever gets made. But even giving more CLUES would have still not pleased some Fans who would have wanted to see Xenomorphs Galore... or some who would have wanted to see similar, and hope that sequels give more Xenomorph like Monsters... and then you have those WHO WANT the Space Jockey/Derelict Answers Laid out on Screen by showing us the Exact Event and what led to it.
In response to such Criticisms and Expectation let down, FOX felt they had to Tone Down the Engineers, and introduce the Xenomorph and come up with a set of Prequels that now Join to ALIEN rather than go off on a different Tangent..
The way this was handled, and some of the Curve-Ball Changes had just made more things for Fans to not be pleased with, and leaves the Franchise as far as HOW Alien Covenant connects to Alien in a bit of a mess... because they are in a situation where they cant please every Fan with no matter what route they now take.
R.I.P Sox 01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017
"WHY Origae 6?! This makes little sense."
I am going to take it you meant as in context to David, and then how it connects to ALIEN? Rather than WHY Mankind has sent off a Mission to Origae-6.
At the time of the Advent... i think they (FOX/RS) had a idea where they are going next... and we dont really know for 100% sure where this is.... We can assume its Origae-6 this is where the Covenant was supposed to be going... David could have (as Walter) informed them (which he has) about how they are now setting off to Origae-6 but we dont know if David has used this as a Red Herring so that he can go elsewhere and not worry about anyone investigating where he is actually off to.
HOWEVER... in the Advent he transmits another Message as David, telling who ever he is sending this too, about where he has been (Prometheus Mission) what he has discovered (Engineers Secrets/Rituals) and what he has done with it... (his Creations). I am not sure if we know WHEN David sends the Advent Video or how long it would take to Reach whoever its intended for.
But someone would surely know whats going on once they receive it... IF David had sent the Advent Shortly after he has departed the system that Planet 4 is in, by Shortly i mean a matter of Weeks.. Then if David is off to LV-223 then this means he would have about as long as it takes him to get from Planet 4 to LV-223, until how long it takes a Earth Ship to get from where the nearest one or Earths System to LV-223. Now the last part depends on Speeds of the Ships, do they take in the year 2105-2106 (when they likely receive the Advent by) 2 years to the Zeta 2 System as the Prometheus did? or has Technology Progressed so they take 10 Months like the Nostromo or can they arrive even faster?
I think we really need to look at Davids Agenda to make sense of all this... would he be prepared to arrive at some place and just as he arrives the Company Turn up and David has the Colonist all Tucked up in Bed, and his TWO Face Hugger Embryos, and all the time between he has just been playing CHESS with MUTHUR?
I dont think so, i dont think David will time it so they arrive and he hands over all his notes/information and those Face Huggers... David would not TRUST Mankind, he dislikes them and i dont think he would risk handing his WORK over and then have the Company Switch him off and have them perform a Cyber Lobotomy on him.
Unless...... the Reveal is that AI has taken over and Mankind is unaware, or David has a Plan to have his AI/Reprogram the companies Computers/AI to be at the Control of David. I think this is something they could be going for.
So indeed IF Davids Plan is to Mass Produce his Xenomorphs, then the better Option would be to take the Covenant to LV-223 where he can begin Experimenting and also using Black Goo and have Engineer Ships he can use to Store his Creations on... The Problem here is TIME, how long would it take for David to get to LV-223 and how much Time would he need to Amass Thousands of Xenomorph Eggs, before the Company Detect/Realize the Covenant has not been heading to Origae-6? Which makes it more of a Puzzle that David sends that Advent Video... unless its sent at a Time where he knows by the Time the Company Receive it and can intercept where David is going, he would have time to Amass his Creations.. WAITING (A Trap Maybe?)
A thing to consider as far as Origae-6 however would be that David is what 12 Months ahead lets say of any Intercepting Ships.... so going to Origae-6 could allow him more of a Head Start as far as when he arrives and depending when he sends the Advent, and they Receive it. So he could be on Origae-6 with more time to Create his ARMY than if he headed to LV-223, by not sending the Advent Video would maybe had allowed him more time so its Foolish to have done so.... But then we have to consider that after David (Walter) informs command he is off to Origae-6 to continue the mission, we have to wonder if the company could detect or chance they could detect the Covenant is heading in a direction that is not Origae-6 and this could lead to them sending out a Interception Mission.
The Question is HOW with TWO Face Huggers does he Create Many Xenomorphs? I would sugest he could go down to Planet 4 in the Lander and collect more Eggs/Embryos and some Black Goo... but who knows if he Took some Black Goo when he had taken the Embryos? Or maybe all he needs is those Embryos?
You would think a BETTER option would be to remain on Planet 4, where he has Eggs, Black Goo and could take down Colonists as he pleases or head back and forth as he pleases... than Risk going to LV-223 or the Longer Journey to Origae-6
Staying on PLANET 4 is maybe the best option... Until we consider TWO things...
*WALTER is he alive? would David have full confidence he is disabled/destroyed? If David returns and Walter is alive then this could be a Problem for David.
*ENGINEERS has David discovered how often they Return? would he know there are more out there who could Potentially Return? surely he would not want to be hanging around WHEN/IF they return, and if he goes to LV-223 then he would be aware ONCE the Engineers Return they could potentially head to LV-223 as they would detect this is where the Juggernaught came from... any Returning Engineers would surely investigate LV-223 unless it is just ONE ship and they are aware of where the Culprit (David) is heading.
But HOW could they know this...?
Looking at this and knowing David would play if SAFE, hence one reason he Bombarded the Engineers in my Opinion, then going to Origae-6 makes the better choice for the reasons i touched upon in this post.
How do they (Engineers) Discovery where David is going? i can only assume via Walter, or a Star Chart left behind by some of the Dead Crew on Planet 4 (in their back packs) or some other clue left behind by the Covenant Crew/Mission.
R.I.P Sox 01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017
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