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Alien: Covenant - Prometheus sequel

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The Enigmatic Mystery..... Space Jockey

The  Enigmatic Mystery..... Space Jockey

BigDave

Member

317

Posted May-23-2018 7:28 AM

It has been over 39 years since we first saw the Enigmatic Space Jockey Scene, and its NOW been over 8 years since our Prequels had entered their Production where Originally the Space Jockey Mystery went from being loosely covered, to then no Longer being Covered.

Until.... We arrive at the work that went into Alien Covenant, the change in direction to eventually lead us to the Back Door of ALIEN and potentially lead us directly to the Space Jockey Mystery.

While the Franchise has hit a State of Limbo... I wish to Engage you all with these Few Questions and what your responses would be.

1) The Enigmatic Mystery....  should it be left Alone?  and do you think it will be left Alone or eventually Revealed?

2) If it is to be explored WHAT do you WANT to be revealed? Especially as far as WHO sits in that Chair on the Derelict!

*A Engineer (Prometheus or Alien Covenant type)?

*A Humanoid Related to the Engineers.?

*A More Alien Bi-Pedal being in a Space Suit?

*A Human (And Who/Where from?)

*A Synthetic (And Who/Where From?)

*The Skeletal Remains of a Alien Species?

3) If it is to be explored WHAT do you THINK will be revealed? Especially as far as WHO sits in that Chair on the Derelict!

*A Engineer (Prometheus or Alien Covenant type)?

*A Humanoid Related to the Engineers.?

*A More Alien Bi-Pedal being in a Space Suit?

*A Human (And Who/Where from?)

*A Synthetic (And Who/Where From?)

*The Skeletal Remains of a Alien Species?

So the First Question is if you think its should be answered or not, the Second Question is a case of What you would like to see! and the Final Question is a case of What you actually feel we would see!  which could be different to what you would have liked/wanted to have seen.

My opinion is

1) Maybe it should be left a Mystery, but we can get clues to how it could have happened as far as in other situations.  But i think they WAS going to directly take us to the Space Jockey Event/Mystery.

2) I would like to see the reveal as another Race above the Engineers that are somewhat Humanoid but not quite as Human looking as our Engineers, with David maybe being the Cause of the Space Jockeys Fate, Maybe as a Act of Redemption?

3) I think they could be showing us a Standard Engineer as the Space Jockey, and reveal David Causes this Event. Maybe as a Act of Redemption?

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

20 Responses to The Enigmatic Mystery..... Space Jockey

ignorantGuy

May-23-2018 9:47 AM

1) and 2) for me the reveal from Prometheus is more than enough. I don't to know exactly who it really was. I don't want to know what he ate for breakfast (at Tiffany's or anyplace else).

3) How everything is set in place, I would bet on David himself (He swapt bodies with Walter who is partly organic and thus can be infected).

ali81

May-23-2018 10:35 PM

where the space jockey is concerned...

id either leave it a mystery now or keep it an engineer as suggested heavily in Prometheus. I wouldn't mind another species being revealed as the SJ but David? nah not for me. the derelict scene, as stated by RS himself, IS the alien movie. its meant to be of alien origin so lets keep it that way.

as for 3)....

hate hate hate hate hate just HATE the idea of David being responsible for the derelict. but it seems this is how its gna pan out so just have him sneak a hugger on the ship and be done with it already. 

BigDave

May-24-2018 6:38 AM

"I don't want to know what he ate for breakfast (at Tiffany's or anyplace else)."

I think thats where the Answer Lies however ;)

What did i have for Breakfast!

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

BigDave

May-24-2018 7:09 AM

I think Alien Covenant does set up a quite predictable path,  Ridley Scott in interviews had Confirmed David as the Creator... which (Provided they stick to the same idea) means that as of the year 2104 there is NO Xenomorph Eggs on the Derelict, and potentially NO Derelict on LV-426.    Ridley Scott suggesting that David does go to the Planet (we can assume Origae-6) means he wont arrive until 2112, which would leave 10 years to Shoe-horn in the Eggs Getting on a Engineer Ship.... unless David goes to LV-426 instead of Origae-6 but why?

So at this point.... it appears to set up Returning Engineers and thus likely this provides the Source of the Derelict or a event that takes them to LV-223 to source the Derelict.

Its case then of Oversight for Atheistic Differences or would they be Addressed.

*The Proto-Xenomorph... do these Beasts Get Evolved to become more Bio-Mechanical?  Or is this a Oversight and are supposed to be the same thing with NO further modifications.

*The Space Jockey Size... is this going to be overlooked, or are they going to make it a Oversight were we have to accept the Space Jockey is one of out 7-8ft Engineers, or a 6ft Human or Synthetic.

So indeed i can see the Concerns... and you almost have to wonder are we going to be Spoon Fed that Synthetic Material is the Final Piece of the Bio-Mechanical Puzzle..... i would say its looking this way.  But could they go further by revealing a Synthetic or David ends up in the Space Jockey Chair?  I feel this would be something that would Further Alienate Fans from the Franchise (Pun intended)

THE PROBLEM....

Keeping it a Mystery as in DONT touch the Subject/Event could be tricky now, unless they give us a U-Turn that DAVID just created his OWN New Version of the Xenomorph.

Going this Route... would maybe have us asking or need answering the Question.... so the Company are Aware of Davids Creation, the Engineers are on route.... so WHY does the Company not Pursue or be able to obtain Davids RE-CREATION in the Franchise.. leaving them only to explore the Ancient Derelict and Original Xenomorphs.

Even if this is Explored.... so Davids Experiments and Xenomorphs and LV-223 are all Eradicated.....  leaving ONLY the Ancient Derelict.

Some Fans are still going to want to KNOW what happened to the Space Jockey even if they go the route that David does-not create the Xenomorphs in ALIEN.

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

I Moon Girl

May-24-2018 5:39 PM

1) I think what happened to the Space Jockey should be left mostly alone.  I think what happened should not be explained literally, but should be explainable by the viewer who would be able to "connect-the-dots". 

2)  I would like it to be an Engineer from the Prometheus operations because to help explain this Space Jockey mystery, we would also get some more info on the culture of the Engineers.  I really think the Engineers need to be explained more in the movies.  I might have to get some comic books, though, because they may not delve to much deeper with the Engineers in the movies.

3) I think they will end up using the idea that an Engineer is in the chair of the derelict.  I don't think any human could fit in the Space Jockey suit, but writers can write!

Honestly, when considering Alien: Awakening as a WHOLE... I keep saying this and I'm going to say it again...

I think we are in for a big surprise!!!!

Dark Nebula

May-24-2018 6:18 PM

If you are asking me, it should be answered anytime soon (at least in my opinion), you can't keep it a mystery forever. From what I can tell, most of the people saying that it should be left alone are the same people that were disappointed with the look of the Engineers, not being the big elephantine creatures they hoped for.

I don't think it will be David in the Engineer suit, I think it will be an Engineer, but a larger one.

I theorize that there might be military enhanced Engineers larger than 8'0", somewhat closer to SJ's height.
I also theorize that large majority of enhanced Engineers are 7'0"-8'0" tall (what we saw in Prometheus), the ones over 8'0" might be less produced, used for different tasks. I already talked about the Tyrants from Resident evil series somewhere.

I was writing a fake screenplay titled "Alien: Origins" (I gave up writing on it because I got busy with other things) and at the very beginning, I had an event taking place on LV-223, 2000 years before USCSS Prometheus arrived. In it, the engineers were in the process of leaving, but they lost the control of the pathogen and the whole facility was in the lockdown. A couple of the engineers managed to get to the ship and fly off. But sadly, they also got infected and the ship crash landed on LV-426. Many years later David went to LV-426, accommodated himself in that derelict where he developed the biomechanical xenomorph. The rest of the story I couldn't imagine how to continue.

 

"Human heaven? Goodness, humans don't go to heaven.

Someone just made that up to prevent you from all going nuts."

- Kryten, Red Dwarf S3E06 "The Last Day"

BigDave

May-25-2018 8:15 AM

I think thats a interesting take on it Dark Nebula, Prometheus was ambiguous but there was clues and Ridley Scott even confirmed the Entire Space Jockey Story a few times... each time with more detail and ULTIMATELY it was related to the Experiments on LV-223 and the Derelict/Space Jockey event occurred either a Few HUNDRED years Prior or Post the LV-223 Outbreak.   This is something they could have stuck with but we ended up with a U-Turn to make the events of the Sequel Literally and Chronologically eventually lead to ALIEN

I was led to Assuming a Good Candidate for the Xenomorph would have been the HAMMERPEDES as they had Xenomorph Traits/Acid Blood... Those Worms had been on LV-223 prior to the Prometheus Ship and thus the potential for them being infected in the past during a Outbreak was Great...  Worms mostly Procreate Asexually and so TWO Worms could Mate and Fertilize each others Eggs... so what could TWO Hammerpedes produce?

My attempted Prometheus Re-Write/Edit i was to show Milburn had a Neomorph/Babyhead Type Organism  and also show a Hammerpede get shot to reveal small Grape or Smaller Sized Xenomorph Eggs.  All of this would have helped us to MAYBE assume those Chest Busted Engineer Cryo-Pods are via Hammerpede Implanted/Laid Eggs.

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

ali81

May-25-2018 11:20 PM

it is not possible for RS to reveal the derelict in either the next instalment of the prequels or its sequel and not reveal the identity of the space jockey. the 2 go together imo. I believe he will as he did state that his reasoning for returning to the franchise was to answer that question. for me there is no logical way the jockey can be David even with Ridley's history of white washing continuity. we have seen David standing next to an engineer and he is dwarfed and as we can clearly see the SJ is much larger than that same engineer so its not David, come on.....

i see the engineers we saw in Prometheus at the facility being bio-engineered protectors of the actual engineer race tasked with the militant side of their civilisation and the SJ is just an extremely large specimen. id like it to be something else but i just don't see it.

dk

May-26-2018 1:00 AM

From what I can tell, most of the people saying that it should be left alone are the same people that were disappointed with the look of the Engineers, not being the big elephantine creatures they hoped for.

Partially true for me. I originally thought the SJ was fossilized and looked nothing like Engineers or us- but whatever. But after all this time with different turns, twists and speculation, I find it more interesting to leave the identity of the SJ a mystery. I have my own ideas and have read members' ideas that are quite compelling. The franchise is big enough now that even if a direct link is made to the SJ and what its last thoughts were, fans will continue to pick things apart and want more explanations.

I would like to see explanations but there seems to be too many branches to explore for sit down movies at this point. 

ali81

May-26-2018 1:31 AM

dk, yea i was under the impression hhhmmm 20 years ago the SJ was fossilised and so was RS. id have kept it that way and it can still remain that way. maybe an ending where David discovers the derelict and he activates its holo records and we see the pilots fate but with the engineers closing in he has to leave? we get our answers but the derelict and SJ lore stays intact

dk

May-26-2018 1:50 AM

In a broader scene, part of good sci fi is leaving the audience with something to ponder. These days it seems like we are led to ponder the next movie. There is a difference between those notions imo.

ali81

May-26-2018 1:58 AM

very true. part of good films is that the audience is made part of the experience. best way to do that is to let our imaginations fill in the blanks sometimes. we don't need spoon fed through each step of a movie but if wer given enough and then left to fill in whats missing then that's more than enough i believe and a lot of people can leave quite happy with that rather than being given all the answers and not liking the outcome.

dk

May-26-2018 2:08 AM

Have to admit that The Matrix left a lot to think and talk about and although the sequels were just ok, I wish I never watched them. Animatrix was really good though- self contained shorts in the universe that gave the viewer something to think about. The Alien franchise could easily go in that direction.

ali81

May-26-2018 2:17 AM

well the matrix sequels were just a total mind f**k so theyd be exceptions but i get what ur saying. i was left scratching my head when it was all done with. but a good director and writer will find a good blend of what to show u and what to leave to the imagination and not make it tedious. having to think about it too much about 'what happened' ruins the experience but if ur given enough teasers to suggest more than 1 outcome was possible then it can become a debate rather than mixed up confused mess like the matrix. i know we say it often but alien gave us just enough to set the tone then it was down to u the viewer to fill in the blanks. we saw very little revealed and its a masterpiece because RS found a good blend of what to give us and what to tease/suggest us with and left the rest up to us.

dk

May-26-2018 2:35 AM

To be fair, at least The Matrix series had a conclusion. Answers were given and there was no need for more.

In 1978-1979, I saw no evidence RS intended to continue with Alien- and he didn't need to. The Quadrilogy was enough for me. Continuing from A3 seems more economy driven than genuine story driven, but I am a cynic. BTW I liked AR but...well, it was unnecessary imo.

ali81

May-26-2018 3:03 AM

i love the Quadrilogy and each step was a natural progression imo even though i agree they could have stopped after A3. but like many others, i asked the question 'who was that guy in the chair' and 'what was the purpose of the eggs'? true he didn't intend a sequel, it was a 1 off movie but it did so well people wanted more. Ridley has come back to answer the only true mystery left in the franchise and that's the above question. he tried freshening things up but hasn't been allowed to do it his way after Prometheus. follow on films to A3 could very easily have just become more of the same. in saying all this i would say had the mystery of the derelict never been revealed, it wouldn't bother me in the slightest.

BigDave

May-26-2018 8:19 AM

"In a broader scene, part of good sci fi is leaving the audience with something to ponder. These days it seems like we are led to ponder the next movie. There is a difference between those notions imo."

Very True... and i think Prometheus set up to do just that.. give us a little to get us thinking where we cant really come up with a Concrete Answer... and so the Mystery Remains intact to a degree.

I think while keeping it a Mystery is what some wanted, Ridley Scott for me had a few ideas back in the past, but he was busy and then along came Camerons ALIENS so Ridley Scott lost Creative Control on how to Explore and Expand from his first ALIEN movie..  Future movies came about that introduced the Xenomorph again and Ripley and it became about Ripley.. (where RS was pondering killing her off in ALIEN) so Ridley Scott had lost control of the Franchise, he had seen the Xenomorph exploited especially with the AVP Movies..

But NO-ONE ever went back and answered the Xenomorph Origins, or who the Space Jockey was... and while it may have been idea to keep a Mystery... THIS was the one thing that Ridley Scott could go back and have CONTROL over with his Vision.

He Could have left it Alone... and many years latter, when he is too old, or when he passes away.. After the Franchise has Ran out of Fresh Ideas... the MYSTERY of the Space Jockey/Derelict would be something that FOX could EXPLOIT... and it could have ended up being done in  way that would make Ridley Scott Turn in his GRAVE i feel Hence the Reason RS was to interested in doing a Prequel... He may have lost CONTROL to how the Xenomorph was showcased in Future movies... But he could still have his SAY on the Origins of the Xenomorph and the Space Jockey Race and Event.  ALIEN was one of his Babies.. one of his BEST movies.. and so i think he would rather had worked on the Prequels for his LEGACY than see it be covered by someone else down the line in a way that would not have please him.

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

BigDave

May-26-2018 8:25 AM

I too saw the Space Jockey as a Giant Skeleton... it was only latter in the days of DVD, and when i saw images/concepts of the Space Jockey (as well as being older myself) that it just did not seem as Large or as a Skeleton at all.

The Original Idea from Star Beast was a Skeleton of a Giant Bi-Pedal Race, and the Signal was from their Derelict Ship....  The Xenomorph was merely something they discovered in a Pyramid that they attempted to take to be Studied... before they fell Prey to the Starbeast...

When HR Giger Came along to work on the concepts... his concepts painted a different picture of a Humanoid Race in a Space suit.

These Concepts Influenced the Prequels...  and indeed Originally our Engineers were going to be much Larger... and in Hindsight maybe TWO Errors where.

1) The Juggernaught being Aesthetically different, in size and shape a little but also being more Mechanical than Organic.

2) The Engineers could not be fully realized as a 12-15ft Race, not with the way Ridley Scott did not want to use any Special Effects... where in Hindsight the effects used in say Game of Thrones, and Lord of the Rings/Hobbit would have gave us 10ft or more Tall Engineers.

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

Thoughts_Dreams

Jun-08-2018 7:37 AM

Hmm, those are interesting questions. I will answer it point by point

    1. It depends if they are able to do it properly and with a lot of thought behind it. If they can not do this it should be left alone, it depends on how clever they are.
    2. Since I like so mystery I think that it could be hinted at who is in the pilot chair but it should not be directly told. At least I want it to be some mystery left, that is why the SJ scene has worked until now and still does. Like the prequels in Star Wars we got answers but many were disappointed with Anakin as a whiny kid and the midiclorians. I thought that the midoclorians were OK but Anakin could have been done better. My point is that if we get direct answers in the next prequel and they will be disappointing to most then it has made a disservice to it but if they leave it vague then there are things to discuss. It totally depends on how they do it and if there is some serious thought behind it and things that make sense. I can not really give a straight up answer to this so this is the best that I can give you. By the way Do Not let it be David in the chair, that would make me mad.
    3. Yeah maybe it will be an Engineer, but I would much rather have that then David.

LOL! It is quite fun how Ali81 puts it when it comes to the idea of David being
responsible for the derelict but I agree, that would suck.

If they answer what he ate for breakfast does that mean that we got to know how their eventual bowel-movements are like? Do they have to crap or do the vitamins or what ever it is in their food recycle until it no longer works so they die from that?

Scott should not be the one to interfere with the story since he only cares about David. I do not want David to be the creator of the Xeno, F that very much. I hope that they will not make David the SJ because that would put the prequels at a AVP level.

"But could they go further by revealing a Synthetic or David ends up in the Space Jockey Chair?"

They could but then I think that it will piss off a lot of people so will they do that? Hopefully this will not happen so we will get an Engineer that is the SJ or someone that is related to it. It makes the most sense to what we have seen this far because at least the Engineers are bigger than David in size so it will make more sense to have an Engineer being the SJ than David.

Hopefully David made his own version. Making him responsible for both the Xeno and the derelict puts too much emphasis on him and makes the prequels a story about a mad android which makes the franchise closer to a joke but there are always the first three movies.

"Some Fans are still going to want to KNOW what happened to the Space Jockey even if they go the route that David does-not create the Xenomorphs in ALIEN."

I can respect that but then if they mess up the answer and make it into a joke then I would prefer if they would rather hint at it because I think that is enough. You do not ignore it but there is also room for your own speculation as far as details are concerned. This would be my preferred version of how to do that.

BigDave

Jun-09-2018 5:39 PM

I think right now the THEME at play with Prometheus was Creation, Sub-Creation and Hubris of messing with stuff you should leave alone.. DO-NOT play with Fire, DO-NOT Eat from the Forbidden Fruit.

And also the THEME about Perfection...

so i think it FITS well if some Race be it Engineers or another above the Engineers Discover Davids Creation, see it as closer to Perfection and Attempt to take this Xenomorph and EVOLVE IT and once they do this.... it becomes a GREAT Hubris to them/Space Jockey

I think its the only Logical Way to FIT with all the Prequels have shown, it still Portrays Davids Role, it still Portrays the Engineers. It fits with the Creation Themes. And the Hubris of Sub-Creation, Playing with Fire and the Aim for Perfection at a Great Price.

 

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

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