Why would the Engineers point humans to their military installation?2 Upvotes15 RepliesUpvoteAdd A Reply
The most logical answer to me would be that the Engineers' home planet was in the same galaxy and that's what they were really pointing at. The problem with that is, wouldn't Shaw and Holloway have found their home planet as well? Maybe David changed their course while everyone was in cryo redirecting them to LV-223. This would fit in line with David's secret resentment of his human creators and their treatment of him.
I read somewhere that humans were created as a host for xenomorphs, although this still doesn't explain why they would want the humans to come find them. This would, however, explain the giant humanoid head shrine in the cargo hold.
Even if they were trying to direct them to their home planet, why would they do this? We are shown that the engineers are not our benevolent creators, but our evil masters who were experimenting on us and intending to destroy us.
Sometimes I like to think the Engineers' plan was sort of like this. "Let's show them where we come from. If they ever find us, we will know they must know what it is to be dangerous. Then we will know it is time to destroy them." Something along those lines.
But they didn't show them where they come from, they directed them to LV-233. And what do you mean "what it is to be dangerous?"
This is a Question thats been covered a number of times and one thats always interesting.... I think we get a lot of conflicting clues....
A number would come to conclude, as Janek said that this is a Bio-Weapons Facility, and RS had said the Black Goo was a Bio-Weapon.....
I TOTALLY disagree with this 100%
What does Prometheus show us, including comments by RS? This is that the Engineers are Genetic Space Gardeners, and RS has mentioned this even after Alien Covenant.. The opening Scene in Prometheus is to show us a Seeding of DNA event that leads to the Creation of Life, but this process is not a ONE OFF. the Engineers do this on many worlds...
Ridley Scott also mentioned in the run up and after Prometheus that the Engineers had came to Earth at Regular Intervals where they EVOLVED us both Genetically and Technologically. We have no clear reason WHY we was created, but Prometheus certainly shows this is a IMPORTANT event and one that takes a lot of time before we get to Mankind, its a MASSIVE investment of time by the Engineers.
The Premise was that all of our Ancient Cultures, Mythos and Religions are actually based of Actual Interactions with these Engineers in the past, we viewed them as the GOD's they Genetically are connected to us, and came to teach us stuff over thousands of years.
The Archeological Finds by Dr Shaw and Holloway provided clues to what appears to be a Star Map, we can assume it was a grouping of Stars that fitted that pattern... this is a flaw as the Stars in the Sky could move about over thousands of years.
Some Stars will appear similar over time though, but if we look at the Orion's Belt and Imagine if the Star Map was this... for a moment.... The Problem here is that while from Earth these may look close together, they are in fact separated by GREAT distances, if we assume the Star Map was Orion's Belt, then the Question then would be ok... so which of these Stars are the Engineers pointing too... so from you point about "pointing at the same Galaxy " i assume you mean same area of space as in Constellation that Matches.. The Problem we have is indeed we can see Constelations from Earth, but in reality each Star is separated by Vast Distances, so that in many cases the TWO Stars that seem closer together could actually be further apart than one of the other stars that appear further.
So then, are we looking at a System Map... so it shows say a collection of Planets?
But then Planets will move around its Sun and never be in the same place years apart.... so finding a system based on how Planets were laid out in a System at those Star Maps would be more than a Needle in a Haystack.... And more so if we say the Star Map is a Planet and its Moons.
so its likely to have been a Star Constellation..
Errors aside.. we are shown that these Star Maps are appearing at different stages on Earth, dating 35'000 years ago, and across many Cultures who had little or no contact with each other.
QUESTION? Why build a Military Outpost 35'000 plus years ago and leave Clues to it to early Mankind, and continue to show these Clues over thousands of years?
A Warning? but why Warn us about it 35'000 years ago, and if it was a Military Outpost, or they planned to make one in future but felt they would show us where this place would be built 35'000 years ago?
If they had the Outpost 35'000 years ago, then why wait thousands of years to use the Weapon on us? Would it make a difference if the Weapon was used on 19th century man, 100AD man, 500 BC Man or even Caveman?
Why visit us over and over and develop and interact with our Civilizations?
If the intention is to use the Bio-Weapon on us, and why show us a Map? A Trap if we do Evolve to much and so we turn up and get infected? A Warning like to say "if you dont follow our rules and worship us then we will bring death from here!"
Why build a Bio-Weapons Facility 35'000 years plus ago? As a just in case our Creation get unruly precaution?
And HOW do they not seem to loose control of the Bio-Weapons for 33'000 years until about 2000 years ago?
Why Terra-form the Outpost? maybe so they can test how the Black Goo works in a Environment that is breathable to Humans?
All very much Flaws if you ask me....
So back to the Space Gardeners..
If you are a Normal Gardener/Farmer, with Plots of Land where you are seeding and growing and harvesting Fruit and Veg, or even Flowers..... You aim is then to Perfect these Plant Life, you maybe are going to attempt experiments on them, hybridize them to create something NEW and Perfect.
Would you not want to experiment on New Versions and Hybrids and upgrades, in some kind of Green House/Nursery, and then when you are pleased with the results and feel that seeding them will not affect the Crop/Harvest you all ready have. Then you seed these evolved/new Crops to the Gardens... Would that not make sense?
Now the Engineers are Genetic Gardeners, and if LV-223 was a Watchers Outpost to Watch over us from, and to take their Creations for Testing and then Reseed/bring back the favoured results to the Garden (Earth) then it makes more sense to what LV-223 was... and why it was Tera-formed so that Humans (other Life) on Earth can survive in this place?
I believe this is what LV-223 WAS.. until some point much latter, some point when something happened, that caused them to instead Engineer those Deacon like Organisms....
The Star Maps were THUS saying this is WHERE YOU CAME FROM.
R.I.P Sox 01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017
Which brings me to Planet 4....
These Engineers look different, they also have Females so why create Mankind? This is a Topic for another debate i feel.
But if we look at the Reaction of those Engineers to the arrival of the Juggernaught, we see the Engineers Flock towards the Center of the Plaza where the Hanger is located.
We hear a Horn to notify the Engineers of the Return of a Ship, and these Engineers have NO FEAR for this ship.. Are they welcoming their Heros back from WAR? Do they know one Target was Earth, if the only Target was Earth would they not Question how long the mission took, if the Targets are many Worlds maybe we can make sense of this..
Do these Engineers in their naivety and arrogance, feel that NO Engineer would turn their Weapon against their own kind, and that no Seeded Worlds or Creations would ever Evolve enough to make it to one of their worlds and steal the Juggernauts?
Again i think not.....
Again these are Genetic Space Gardeners, they hold Sacrificial Rituals to Seed Worlds....
The Hanger is surrounded by what look similar to Budha Offering Statues, that are holding like a Bowl.. I think the Engineers have EVOLVED their Seeding Technology... no longer do they use the Teardrop Ship and drop off a Lone Engineer to be Sacrificed.
They instead created/use the Juggernauts, they created a way to Sacrifice a Engineer and collect their DNA/Broken down Material and place this inside those URNS If we took a Engineer placed him in a Shower Cubicle, maybe ran the shower? but give him the Sacrificial Goo and have his broken down material COLLECTED down the Hole and into some containers.... Then would not pouring these Containers into the Water Fall not give the same affect as the Sacrificial Scene?
If we consider this is what the Urns are and Juggernaught, if we consider a Sacrifice or Sacrifices are Chosen from the most Superior Genetics of their kind, and these Chosen Engineers see this as a Great Honor, where they are IMMORTALIZED because their DNA will be passed on to create LIFE and also they then get a Statue Erected in the Courtyard to represent their Sacrifice thus becoming IMMORTALIZED again.
Then this would make sense to WHY those Engineers had NO FEAR regarding the returning Juggernaught, this world is where the Engineers come and choose their STOCK for Seeding Worlds.
Having maybe a number of Engineers Sacrificed into a Substance that contains their DNA, would give them Diversity of DNA over the Lone Engineer Sacrifice.... and dropping the DNA from the Skies is more efficient than sending a Engineer to the Surface.
THIS is how i view Planet 4, it also backs up my theory regarding what LV-223 is and WHAT the Mural was in Prometheus... which is that they Sacrificed something related to the Xenomorph to make the Black Goo they intended to use on Earth,.. because at some point those Engineers came across a Parasitic Organism, they saw the Results as a way for maybe those LV-223 Engineers to Procreate and they WORSHIPED IT as being a Perfect Evolution/Offspring of those Engineers and they chose to Seed Earth with its DNA... "
"Sometimes to create, one must first Destroy"
Jon Spaights Alien Engineers (original Alien Prequel concept) shows us similar, the Engineer took a Sacrificial Pose as he was broken down by the Sacrificial (Scarabs).... Thus the Mural in Sacrificial Pose maybe means they Sacrificed the Deacon to make what ever is in the Urns on LV-223. Originally the ALTAR in front of the Mural had the Sacrificial Bowl on it... Replaced by Green Crystal for the movie.
R.I.P Sox 01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017
OhioDude25 To get that far, humans would have had to learn warfare and how to kill to be able to develop the way to find the Engineers. Sort of a litmus test. Not a popular idea but fun to ponder.
we also have to view the possibility that 10-35,000 years ago it may not have been a military facility. look at the mural and the giant heads. they would suggest a place of history and worship and wouldn't fit into the design of a military instillation. its part of why I hate where RS is going. one theory I had was it was a gathering point for all the creations by the elders once the creation had become technologically advanced enough to meet their makers but at some point in history there was an uprising. the elders were over thrown by the engineers and forced off lv223 and the engineers turned the facility into a military base to wipe out certain elder creations for the very reason Yanik states. these events lead to a civil war within the engineer civilisation and the rebel engineers are attacked by those loyal to the elders and thus we get the events regarding the facility and the derelict.
Another thing to consider with building murals, heads and (pyramids on our planet) is that it would likely require slave labor and thus an elite and lower class system...
very true. many have the theory of an elder higher power who appear in the deleted scenes at the beginning of Prometheus. possibly the engineers are this slave labour? would give reasoning behind any uprising
u could then look at planet 4 being a refuge for the survivors from the war?
". possibly the engineers are this slave labour? "
Certainly possible... i think we need to look at the wider themes at play... WHY WAS DAVID CREATED?
Here are the logical reasons, starting with what the movie showed us, then going to other logical reasons.
1) Because we could... because Weyland could? i am not 100% sure on this, i feel yes in part. I think its more to also show that Weyland doing this is a great achievement for himself, it leaves a Legacy, it gives Weyland Pride to say.. "you see this being, i created him, showing that we can be Gods too" This fits with the Ozymandias poem, as after his death, its looking on to his WORKS that allows his Legacy to live on... but in time these too disappear with little trace.
2) We see David is a Tool/Servant. This would actually be one of the main reasons for Mankind Eventually creating Robots/Androids.. to carry out tasks that would save Humans having to do them.
3) Worship.... this caries on more for above but maybe does not apply much to maybe how and why Mankind would create Synthetics.
4) Companionship.... simply to create a Life so that one has a Companion, i feel the creation of Synthetics in future will forfill this kind of Role.
4) Immortality/Greater Course for Survival.* This is my own conclusion, i feel Weylands Ultimate aim was to Cheat Death, and if he could Create/Perfect the Perfect Synthetic Host Body, and then find a way for himself to upload his SOUL into this Synthetic Vessel than Weyland would have became IMMORTAL so to speak.
When we take the above and apply it to various creation Mythos and Themes, we can see a number of these MATCH the Agenda for the Creation in various Religions/Mythos... not every Religions/Mythos matches all those reasons, but everyone matches at least 1-2 of them.
So then can we start to apply those to the Engineers Agenda? I think so...
Ridley Scott calls those Planet 4 Engineers the Original Engineers, and they live for 150 years... they also have Females.
Prometheus and the drafts which include Alien Engineers, point us to a Ancient Race who had Evolved themselves so far that Procreation was not needed, and they LOST this ability... but while indicated they could LIVE for Many Thousands of years... they are NOT immortal so eventually they would DIE OUT... and so they would need to find ways to Procreate.
Alien Covenant kind of can introduce this, as leaving us to ponder those Planet 4 Engineers are Hybrids of Humans and Engineers, which could reveal the whole AGENDA for our Creation.... and make perfect sense with Prometheus.
HOWEVER.... Ridley Scotts comments on the Planet 4 Engineers being the Original, and with his comments in Prometheus regarding the removal of the Elders Scene (he did not want to meet GOD in the first movie)... These maybe now draw us to conclude the Prometheus Engineers where a Engineered/Advanced version of the Engineers, where they was Genetically Manipulated and THUS.... the Prometheus Engineers to the Alien Covenant ones, are maybe like Replicants to Humans.
So in effect the LV-223 Engineers could be more closer to David, as in a Tool Engineered by their Creators for a certain purpose.
R.I.P Sox 01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017
so the elders in the deleted scenes are the gods and were only taken out as RS decided it was too early to reveal them and they can no longer reproduce so through bio-manipulation they create others (engineers, humans etc) in their image which would live on? the engineers on planet 4 were THE original batch or at least the offspring/ descendants of the originals?
It appeared to start this way yes... From Alien Engineers.
If we can imagine we advance ourselves so we are immune to every disease, illness, defect we are basically Engineering Super Humans, with all the best Traits, and NO Defects... though our Advancements and Medicine we now dont live for 70-90 years, but thousands, eventually with such tampering, maybe we loose the ability to Procreate because we can Live for much longer.
But we are not Immortal... a heavy blow, a blast could kill us, jump off a 1000ft drop and we dead, get our head stuck under a Guillotine and we are Dead.. But our Organs Age say 500X less, we are immune to any Diseases and New Ones we could find Cures Fast... we are Immortal to a degree... But can still be killed, and still naturally die but we AGE at a much much slower rate.
If this is what became of the Engineers, eventually every Engineer would become a Elder, eventually Elders would die out of OLD Age, this would mean they had to find ways to Procreate?
Maybe they could Clone themselves? Doing this could create Sterile Engineers though... so maybe the Sacrificial Route was needed to Create Life in their Image... to eventually save their kind.
I had a theory a long time ago, this was the case, and that the Engineers attempted to create/evolved a Humanoid they could MATE with (if they lost their Females, or Evolved past this) i felt this fitted with the Fallen Angels and Genesis 6:4
"The Nephilim were in the earth in those days, and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bore children to them; the same were the mighty men that were of old, the men of renown"
I felt this was why the Engineer was so interested in Dr Shaw, especially when we see the Extended Scenes, he never killed her or attempted to, but he seemed to want to do with her as David was with Daniels in Alien Covenant.
I made a Topic about Females and Engineers a while back.
But alas AC showed us Females, since the released set photos which made me think these Hybrids are the Intentions the Engineers had with us and ONCE they had now obtained Females to Breed with, that then gave them Engineer/Human Hybrids they can then breed with each other to get to say a Race thats now 75% Engineer or more, but can now Procreate..
ONCE they had this, they DID-NOT need Mankind anymore.
This is what i was drawn to prior to AC coming out at the Box Office.
What is interesting is many months latter we got these concept works by Wayne Haagg and Steve Messing of the Cathedral Dome Entrance.
R.I.P Sox 01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017
Sorry to go slightly against the grain here and disagree with you all about why the engineers pointed us to LV-223. I've used most of what you guys and gals already gathered and thought of a different and more sinister line of reasoning. This is a horror movie after all. My take on this is the Engineers are indeed space gardeners, and pointing us to the installation at LV-223 was a means for us to let them know we're ready for harvest. That's all. I think they seed planets for life like we grow vegetables and fruits. We wait for harvest time and pluck out all the fruit. I think they wait for us to be intelligent enough to reach them so they can then create the xenomorphs that inherit our intelligence combined with the creature's hostility making it the perfect organism.
I am not sure why they would create the xenomorph unless for the Engineers' weapon division. The Galaxy is much bigger and might be much more inhabited than previously thought.
The verse in Leviticus 2:23 talks about the unclean in the sacred place. The unclean refers to humanity and the sacred place is obviously the installation. The unclean must then be cleansed. 2000 years ago humans experienced the rise of christianity which with it came a more evolved and knowledgeable species. It is possible that the engineers decided to attack then because of that realization and something went wrong that delayed the situation past its due date.
This of course would contradict the whole idea of come find us so we can make xenomorphs out of you. But its very possible that nothing did go wrong and the Engineers were not coming to destroy us 2000 years ago. There's no actual evidence of that except for what David says and he's not the most trustworthy source.
But if they were coming to destroy it would make it necessary that an engineer was tortured and murdered like Jesus and it prompted them, to come to earth earlier.
After watching Covenant I realized that David/Walter might come out as heros to save humanity from the Engineers who only seed planets for their own needs. Like we do with plants.
AstroBio Interesting idea. But how would the Engineers know their guy "Jesus" was killed- suspense time or date? Even then, nothing seemed to happen until the Prometheus crew blundered in to stir things up.
The Hosts Idea is something some have shared before, its something GAVIN is a big fan of, certainly would have been more plausible if Prometheus had the Sacrificial Scene, the same as in Alien: Engineers, where the Sacrifice leads to Engineer DNA infecting a Primate = Humans.
The whole Prometheus Sacrificial Scene indicated this Scene was either the Start of Life on Earth, where the Engineer provided the Building Blocks... or the Catalyst for Basic Life to Evolve to more Complex (which is how i saw it).
But if this Scenes Agenda was to Create Humanoids purely for HOSTS i find it a bit of a LONG investment in time, especially why we needed to Evolve to a Certain Point of Intelligence to render any use for the Xenomorph... i think Humans even prior to the Great Pyramids would have made just as suitable Hosts as even Modern day Hosts.
This CHANGES if the Xenomorph takes on Memories/Knowledge of its Hosts.. but even then, i think Mankind prior to 2000 years ago would have been prime pickings for Harvest.
But its ONE theory that Can-not be ruled out, especially if we interpret some of Davids comments in the Advent Viral a certain way.
Ridley Scott has said the Engineers are Genetic Space Gardeners, and so Harvesting is part of Gardening to a degree... and so Fruit need time to Ripen...
I think it depends on WHY would they create us, and also WHY create the Xenomorph/Xeno-virus and with the Prequels the Ambiguity really helps us to have a broad range of theories.
Using us a Weapon well Hosts for a Weapon to be used in some Galactic War... is plausible...
What maybe is more-plausible... is what if we was intended as such, but thats what LV-223 was, but after a War/Rebellion some Engineers decided to take us from LV-223 and let us Populate Earth, Free provided we Worshiped them... so the Mural could be saying.
WE SAVED YOU FROM THIS PLACE...
The Wonderful thing is we cant come up with a ONE SIZE fits all theory and so it allows for many theories, which gives a lot of debate and Scope for the franchise.
R.I.P Sox 01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017
Sign in to add a reply to this topic!