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Alien: Covenant - Prometheus sequel

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AVP Galaxy slams Ridley Scott in their latest podscast

joylitt

Member

158

Posted Nov-17-2017 3:22 PM

In their latest podcast, Corporal Hicks and other two panelists slam Ridley Scott for his statements about the alien being "cooked". Among the takeaways from the debate:

1- Ridley Scott cannot decree the xenomorph is dead and lacks the imagination to push the story forward.
2- Alien Covenant proves Ridley is not passionate about the Alien franchise and was in it just for the money.
3- The direction he wants to take the franchise is only making the Alien universe smaller.
4- There are many stories left to tell within the Alien universe.
5- Fox doesn't know what to do with the franchise.
6- Disney might actually do a good job at energizing the franchise.
7- Directors who might do a good job with an Alien film are Alex Garland, Guillermo Del Toro.

http://www.avpgalaxy.net/2017/11/16/beast-cooked-alien-predator-house-mickey-built-avpgalaxy-podcast-58/

36 Responses to AVP Galaxy slams Ridley Scott in their latest podscast

IRaptus

Nov-17-2017 4:15 PM

Yeah have to agree, Scott's latest comments have been pretty low and uninspiring for such a renowned visionary director. His prequels do need closure however, so maybe go out with a bang for one last film then time for a shake up and new direction perhaps? 

Alex Garland hell yes!!

Why don't we have a podcast here on Scified?? Has anyone looked at it i wonder....

 

dk

Nov-17-2017 4:54 PM

Those points echo sentiments on this forum almost verbatim.

ignorantGuy

Nov-17-2017 7:39 PM

Well Alex Garland has many good films, but aren't those more or less cult movies? He does good movies and I am waiting for Annihilation, but does what to make an Alien movie? Does del Toro?

I for one agree that the Xenomorph is cook, but also think Covenant was burn out of severe lack of imagination.

joylitt

Nov-17-2017 8:02 PM

I want to see the xenomorph in many movies to come. Not the xenomorph from "Alien Covenant", though. As the people in the podscast said, Ridley Scott is being hypocritical in what he says about the xenomorph, because what is really "cooked" is the format, not the monster. He made 3 movies that follows more or less the same premise. 

dk

Nov-17-2017 9:12 PM

joylitt Agree. But what would you do with the beast to carry on? I see it as a killing machine with intelligence. I am unsure what else to do with the beast. Maybe it would be about characters dealing with it since we know what the Alien is about. We don't know how a good cast of characters would deal.

joylitt

Nov-17-2017 9:30 PM

dk There is a mythology to explore. You can unveil a mystery that leads to other mysteries. There are different settings and different genre cross overs to try. If Ridley Scott sticks to his explanation that David created the xenomorph he is condemning the sequels to an endless repetition of the same tropes, and that's a certain death for the franchise.

dk

Nov-17-2017 9:53 PM

I don't think RS will be around long enough to do that. To be fair, I might not be around to see it if it does happen.

The series can continue, but I think things need to link up to Alien first. The carrot dangling is old.

joylitt

Nov-17-2017 10:16 PM

Precisely for the reasons you mention it is so important to try and make good movies. These days with the franchises it is very common for fans to say: "the movie was just ok but it is a good set up for better things to come" or "it is a step in the right direction". Actually that is what they are saying about the Justice League movie right now, which is awful. Life is too short and time is too precious to waste in terrible movies like that. This applies to the Alien franchise as well, enough of bad movies already. We want to see a good one before we leave this planet! 

ali81

Nov-17-2017 10:32 PM

cant argue with anything said. I love Ridley Scott movies but u have to question his dedication to the alien franchise at this point. he slammed AVP and AVPR and yet what has AC done that's better for the franchise? the alien franchise is centred around the monster yet RS is trying to move that focus onto a homicidal AI. Prometheus opened the franchise up and gave for endless potential yet look at where hes gone with AC. contradiction and lack of vision imo is damaging the franchise. hes taking the prequel series down the same path episodes 1-3 went in star wars. doing more harm than good. hes hell bent on taking the wonder and mystery of the original movie and chucking all that away simply to investigate AI. stick to Bladerunner for that and leave the alien franchise centred around the monster but open the universe back up with the engineers and possible others. id love to see Del Toro get his teeth into the franchise. im fast losing faith in Ridley to do the original movie or the franchise any justice or fox for that matter so maybe a takeover by Disney would be a smart move. if awakening follows in the same path as AC then ill look at the franchise as incomplete. I put AC in the same frame as AVP and AVPR and by that I mean it did nothing for the franchise imo and I wont watch again. ill stick to alien through to Prometheus and keep the mystery alive 

ignorantGuy

Nov-18-2017 12:29 AM

ali81

If only the AI stuff would have been new, well-thought out and interesting. Or at least one of them.

ali81

Nov-18-2017 12:48 AM

im all one for David being an antagonist within the series but Ridley is replacing the focal point of the franchise away from the xeno onto David which isn't gna work. as the guy states in the podcast, if he wanted to focus on something other than the xeno then Prometheus should have been the first movie in a completely new franchise. its an alien franchise so the focus should be centred around the xeno. I love how Prometheus opened up so many door for possibility but AC kinda shut most of them coz he cant be arsed focusing on anything other than David. if he truly believes the xeno is cooked then why come back? hes spent no time on the engineers, hardly any time on the xeno and focusing on David's quest to rule.

Svanya

Nov-18-2017 2:33 AM

We've looked into making Podcasts in the past. I've done some with voice actor friends of mine (to help a young man get his own series started) and suggested we do some with other actors, etc. I think Chris and Gman wanted to do one awhile back. 

ali81

Nov-18-2017 2:51 AM

good idea. would also maybe be good if it can be done with members phoning in n discussing topics if that's possible n get their views n not just actors?

chli

Nov-18-2017 8:04 AM

I'm afraid they might be right on all seven points. RS's heart and soul were in the mini-films.

cuponator3000

Nov-18-2017 9:58 AM

I agree with some points. I mean, Ridley Scott seems to care, but not really about what the hardcore fans want. Not really what the masses want in a film either. He just seems to want to do his own thing (which is respectable to a point), but it isn't totally meshing with the Alien universe. I mean, sure having the Space Jockeys as beings above us in the universal hierarchy and asking questions about the things he is, has really been a fun journey for me (and will continue that way). 

However, it is rather disheartening that he consistently craps on one of the most famous and best movie monsters ever. Yes, it is pretty much cooked at this point, but all it needs is someone with passion to revive it. Someone who is willing to make sure that the characters are done well enough (Scott and company seem to focus on plot over characters and have a lot of big themes and questions to cover. No room for emotion) and treat the beast as more than... well, more than what Scott treats it as. The Disney comment, well, I agree. If there is one thing Disney is usually good at, it is securing box-office performances and maintaining vision. I could see it working out if Disney ever gets a deal done with Fox. 

I honeslty don't think I would really love Del Toro directing one, but Garland, hell yeah. 

I would support a Scified podcast! I recently started one (called Back Row: Movie News) with a friend, so I would definitely be down to listen to/watch a Scified podcast (and help in any way I can!)

Not a map, an invitation

Spearfish

Nov-18-2017 1:27 PM

DK - I agree that the beast is a killing machine with intelligence, but so were humans at one point in our progression.  And along that progression the lineage split.  There remained the impulsive killers, and then there were the producers and inventors.  I don't think we go there with the xeno, but is their only purpose to kill, and procreate to kill while staying simple and basic beasts?  Loaded question...I think it is, as I can't see them writing code and wrenching on chevy v8's, which kind of leads us to question "why".  That's the movie...Why would someone create something like that?  Take the xeno to it's logical end, the species would die as it exhausted all of its hosts.  Not perfect as Ash described.  Canon is a b!tch.

It's as if the beast is the embodiment of cancer, ebola or the like.  Just a means to an end - the big end.  But that flys in the face of the worship-like murals we see.  Do the elders worship destruction instead of life?  Is that their gift to the universe?  Without instigation, that  mindset typically is reserved to the  lower IQ crowd, so to speak.


And if it is a doomsday creature, I would argue that the neo is a better weapon.

BigDave

Nov-20-2017 5:56 AM

Ha ha thats AVPGalaxy for you..... give them a sequel where David is not the creator of the Xenomorph, add Queens and lots Xenos, throw Ripley in and some Predators and happy days for them folk

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

BigDave

Nov-20-2017 5:56 AM

Ha ha thats AVPGalaxy for you..... give them a sequel where David is not the creator of the Xenomorph, add Queens and lots Xenos, throw Ripley in and some Predators and happy days for them folk

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

BigDave

Nov-20-2017 6:17 AM

"1- Ridley Scott cannot decree the xenomorph is dead and lacks the imagination to push the story forward."

I have to back RS on this one, RS is right we have over the years had Xenomorphs on screen, in games etc and ok the Disney Ride, also..  The Fact is the Xenomorph itself is no longer Scary, neither is Jason Voorhees and Freddy Krueger not as far as when you look them, its only the way you utilize them that makes them Scary.     Alien Isolation works because you are put in the Boots of a Character who is related to Ripley and there is a story build up here....   You are faced with ONE Xenomorph, and you are powerless against it, like the Nostromo Crew was and like the Fiorina "Fury" 161 Prisoners too.

If you took Alien Isolation,  upgraded Amanda to a Marine, give her Weapons she can kill the Xenomorph with, have her come up against Muiltple Xenomorphs and that Game would simply not be as Scary as it was, its the Peril that Amanda Faces that makes it Scary.   And so the Xenomorph has to be handled the same way, if we bring the Xenomorph back in great numbers, and the Queen and have them killed off by Humans then indeed the Beast would be cooked again...  The Xenomorph has some life left in it.... but you have to  be careful to not over expose the Xenomorph.... ALIEN Worked because you hardly ever saw the Beast.

I am 25 minutes in, and it appears these guys well the American really is against RS, saying he ran out of ideas, and the way the Xenomorph been used or lack of by RS is what they are blaming for the failings.

Yet they mentioned Blomkamp had great ideas to bring something NEW...?  Really?  All he would have done is simply Re-Introduce the Xenomorph via a Queen, it would have been more like a remake of Alien Resurrection...  Blomkamp had some good ideas, because it appeared he would have also shown us a different version of the Xenomorph, but Prometheus and Alien Covenant also did this with the Neomorph and Deacon....   And also Blomkamp had a neat idea about Engineer Technology and Merging it with Ripley.... this is something New.. But the most part Blomkamp would just gave us numerous Xenomorphs vs Ripley again.

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

Critters5

Nov-20-2017 7:23 AM

I agree with Bigdave. I think Ridley should finish off his next film(s) and then start a new trilogy with fresh blood. 

Thoughts_Dreams

Nov-20-2017 7:23 AM

I agree with them.

They can use the Xeno but don't overexpose it, leave it in the background. When we saw the alien in daylight it felt like "meh".

He might have good visuals but he can't write a story it seems to me. This is just how I look at it.

They should have expanded the story with the Engineers instead of the artificial intelligence but they bombed the Engineers out of the picture in AC. Killing the Engineers was very disappointing especially when the human characters are not thought out so we get a boring robot movie.

What really bothers me is that he sacrifices the Xenos, the Engineers, and the humans to focus on AI. AI is the thing that I find the least interesting of it all, it is just bad. Keep that sh-- to another movie.

I probably won't bother to watch AC again, just like Ali81 said. It just becomes a movie about a mad robot going berserk which is a failure. Sure you can describe it to be about sub-creation but keep that to another franchise. Trying that within the frames of the Alien franchise and you get a disappointing movie if you don't really try to get good characters which they didn't manage to do.

An alien movie isn't just a movie with a dangerous monster killing people. They said something like that and I agree, you got to make it in a way that seems natural and that you can see their fear and sympathize with the person that is about to be killed. This is because they have messed up the characters.

28 Days Later is a movie that I really like, how about having that guy directing an alien movie? The director to that movie is named Danny Boyle and the writer is Alex Garland.

Fincher directed Alien 3 and the movie Zodiac. Zodiac was alright but the characters could have been more interesting but they fit for a movie like that but maybe not for an alien movie. The atmosphere/feeling about the Zodiac fit with the kind of movie that they were trying to make it seems to me.

"Maybe it would be about characters dealing with it since we know what the Alien is about."

Absolutely yes, that has been lacking since AR and they still haven't gotten it right.

"(Scott and company seem to focus on plot over characters and have a lot of big themes and questions to cover. No room for emotion)" - Cuponator3000

You seem to be correct on that, I don't care for the plot or themes if I can't get interested in the characters. The movie won't work for me if  there is no one to support but I am not sure if Scott understands this.

joylitt

Nov-20-2017 1:52 PM

BigDave The fact that a replica of the xenomorph was in Disneyworld does not make it less scary to me and to the vast majority. RS decreed that, because that is what he "wishes to believe". And the reason why Jason, Freddy and Michael Myers are not scary is because their latest movies were bad or comedic. But if you re-watch the older movies (and that includes Alien), you can feel scared all over again. I have watched a compilation of scary scenes from "Alien Isolation" and even with the limitations of a video game, it is much creepier and scarier than AC. In Covenant there is simply no love for the genre. My theory is that Ridley Scott just grew out of the sci-fi/horror genre like someone who grows out of videogames.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AXURiaXG1l4&t=301s

BigDave

Nov-20-2017 2:12 PM

Indeed, thats Hit the Nail on the head....

The point i was trying to raise, in that its how you portray and use the MONSTER/MONSTERS some of those Franchises did Cook their respective Monsters, in a Cash Cow Grab on exploiting the over done Franchise.  The Alien Universe to a degree did this with AR and with the AVP movies.

The damage could be undone if done right, but AC did not use the Xenomorph well enough, IF David is still to be the Creator of the Xenomorph, then David's Creations must Evolve a bit and end up in their THOUSANDS on a Engineer Ship, that happens to end up No Where Near Origae-6 and so the Xenomorph has to be covered, its a case of how many movies will Span Until we get to the Derelict?

Then they need to be careful HOW, WHEN and WHY they exploit the Xenomorph, as over cooking it could do it more damage, if its done right it can Salvage back its reputation.

Listening to 45 minutes, i think AVPGalaxy Hicks had some good points, it appears the other TWO guys would rather had gone and seen a Blomkamps bring back Xeno Queens and Ripley kind of flick.

Continuing with my first point in this post...   its a case of doing something different, which Prometheus had attempted and AC basically thrown all that under the Carpet.  Its hard to do something fresh with a Franchise Monsters, when they have appeared in 5 or more movies.

Which is why RS was right with the beast was cooked, there is only so much Eggs, Face Huggers, Xenomorphs and Queens you can do, and returning to ONE/TWO Monsters could work for the Alien Franchise, its just they was not handled well in AC.

When Franchises run out of steam, they attempt to sometimes Reboot it, but this sometimes does not go down to well, look at the Remake of Nightmare on Elm Street, which gave Freddy a more sinister back story, it was trying something a bit different, but still it did not go down to well and now they are planning a remake of A Nightmare on Elm Street parts 3 on wards? or 4 on wards?   All this is doing is the same as Blomkamps Alien 5 was doing.

The 2010 A Nightmare on Elm Street was trying something different, but alas it will never get a sequel, but then i it did all it could do is make a more darker version of the Old Franchise, much like the NEW IT movie attempted.

Maybe a Prequel to Nightmare on Elm Street would be something more Fresh, to cover what made Frederick Charles "Freddy" Krueger become who he became... be it they Prequel the 2010 Movie or 1984 one.

Another point to consider, is when a Franchise Monster gets over exploited then you had to try something different, and a ALIEN Franchise about Xenomorphs and Queens, and more Xenos and Queens would grow tiresome.

You only have to look at the WALKING DEAD to see how to use a Franchise, Characters are done great but this is what you have when you have TV Series and not restricted to a 90-120 minute movie. But what Walking Dead did so well was give us Plots that made the ZOMBIE Franchise actually not center around the Zombies at all.. it was for the first few seasons, then they knew continuing about the Humans vs Zombies would soon get OVERCOOKED

So its Plots like the Saviors that helped to make the Franchise more interesting than the Zombie done to death Trope...

I think this is what RS is trying to bring to the Alien Franchise, i dont think he wants to take out the Xenomorph, but he wants to explore other themes where the Xenomorph plays a distant role.

This is where RS and the 3-4 incoming Parties comes in

Likely means we have

1) The Colony that gets set up...

2) Incoming Weyland-Yutani Ship (as they know what Davids has done)

3) David and his Creations

4) The Engineers

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

Scrib

Nov-20-2017 4:52 PM

I disagree, I loved Alien Covenant. I loved it's references to Milton's Paradise Lost and Frankenstein, very Gothic.  Ridley did a great job. Last thing we need is another "Shoot 'em up, shop 'em out" Alien movie..

BigDave

Nov-20-2017 6:14 PM

Indeed and the Sad thing is if FOX had not maybe got RS to change direction and go for a more Prequel to Alien and introduce the Xenomorph, it would appear the movie and sequel would have touched more on those Paradise Lost and Frankenstein, what we mainly got was a aftermath of them.

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

BigDave

Nov-20-2017 6:28 PM

I think the Podcast does kind of be harsh to RS, without really taking note that FOX actually had a larger say in what we ended up with, and it appears the Podcast geared more to a Aliens kind of Remake.. sort of flick, apart from Hicks he did seem to had been interested in where RS was taking this, prior to pressure from FOX no doubt.

I think when we look at RS comments its easy to see what he was on about, first he did talk about the Beast Being cooked, then he talked about how the Franchise has to be about HIM (the beast) and it can evolve HIM in different ways,  he also said that he felt the Beast (Xenomorph) could go a few more rounds.

But then after AC we have him bringing up the beast is cooked, he was right and ahead of the game, and when you add this to his comments even during the Marketing for AC, when he said "they want Aliens, i'll give them $"%£$^ Aliens"

I think RS felt the Xenomorph was only a small part of the overall wider Universe, it essentially is a By-Product of the Bio-Weapon Black Goo, and i think RS felt you never had to Spoon Feed how the Xemorph is connected or how it came about and when.... He felt the Franchise had other things to cover.

We saw the Xenomorph over and over....  yes the Prequels was to answer the Questions, but FOX felt actually lets tone down these and not give much away.  Thus we got Prometheus.  While it was never Spoon Fed, it tried to keep Mystery we could clearly.. well ish lol

*The Xenomorph was a Engineered Bio-Weapon or a Outcome of the Bio-Weapon (Black Goo)

*The Xenomorphs creation is connected to the Black Goo and LV-223

*There is a missing link between the Black Goo, Xenomorph and Deacon but they wanted to keep the Xenomorph Origins a bit of Mystery.

And so RS had other Big Plans, but having to Shoe-horn the Franchise to Alien and Bring back the Xenomorph and how it was created and by who, with the limited Run Time, meant a lot of Sacrifices had to be made, and elements that would have been explored in Prometheus 2 had to be brushed under the carpet, but covered in small detail as a After-Math (Engineers and Dr Shaw).

So they have put themselves in a corner with where the Plot can Progress now, especially regarding how Davids TWO Face Huggers will leads to THOUSANDS of Eggs on the Derelict.  I just think its harder now to try and delve a bit too much into the Engineers again with  the set up....

Going to be Davids Agenda and the Companies that will take the Forefront.

A lot of Back Lash has gone to RS, and so we have to wonder will FOX replace him, or at least Curb some of his ideas and CHANGE things to please the Fans, but surely we cant have more U-Turns thrown at us again.

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

daliens

Nov-21-2017 12:13 AM

I cannot care less about AVP, their posts or pocasts.

 

"He survived, he’s now in Disneyland in Orlando, and no way am I going back there. How did he end up in Disneyland? I saw him in Disneyland, Jesus Christ!"

ali81

Nov-21-2017 3:28 PM

the point made in the podcast is well founded. for Ridley to claim the beast is cooked smells of lack of imagination where its concerned as a video game got it bang on. if a video game can do it, following pretty much a path that has already been done, why cant a man of the talent such as Ridley not be able to unless he has no passion for it or doesn't know what to do with it?

joylitt

Nov-21-2017 4:06 PM

In the beginning AVP was very supportive to Ridley Scott, in the same way this forum and the youtube channels were. But everybody's patience wore thin as Ridley Scott continues to fail to convince us with his statements that there is anything exciting in the horizon for the Alien franchise. For a change, I wish he would be talking about the genre and the tone and the human factor in his next project, those are the things he needs to work on.

ali81

Nov-21-2017 4:14 PM

he cant make films whos timeline r within the alien franchise an expect to write out or ignore the beast. before he even started Prometheus he should have distanced himself from the beast if that was his intent farther down the road. he could have said he was exploring the influence of A.I and the company within the franchise rather than what he did say. hes out of touch with the franchise and doesn't understand what makes the fans watch the movies over and over again. I said ages ago on here when people were discussing who should replace him and id love to see Del Toro have a crack. a fresh mind and eye is what is needed now I believe.

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