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Alien: Covenant

Alien: Covenant - Prometheus sequel by Ridley Scott

Alien: Covenant

The Alien: Covenant & Prometheus Movie Community

Did David ruin Alien Covenant?

Janekripley76

Member

2

Posted Jul-27-2017 12:43 PM

Many people I've spoken to and even some people leaving the theater all expressed that the movie bombed because the central focus of the movie is about David. Not Shaw, the engineers or even the alien itself. Just David and how it seems he is the sole creator or at the very least co-creator of the xenomorph. Alot of moviegoers, myself included find this so hard to believe and to simply digest the fact that this creature that is so complex and so unique and extremely dangerous can be created by a lone android that was created by humans. How the xenomorph was portrayed in the first film should have carried over in the future films. It was terrifying. How stealth the xeno was and the way he stalked the crew was unreal. I love how you never really saw how he moved about from place to place which added to the mystery of this being. And when the xeno was finally revealed it was incredible. Like where in this galaxy could something so sinister come from. Now we know where it comes from and it just leaves you sucking your teeth and saying was this all they could come up with? Really? An Android is the reason for the xenomorph? Some folks like the David arc in the series and that's great but I feel like if not solely the engineers being the creator then a higher being should have had a hand in their creation. Not a crazed android that was made on earth. To me that just cheapens the xenomorph even more so than ever. They already have them moving about like giant bugs that are very easy to kill. The xenomorph just isn't scary anymore and that sucks. I hope that the next movie if there is gonna be another one made would at least try to bring that feeling of doom and uncertainty along with the fear of being killed by this thing back. Right now David is more dangerous and more mysterious than the xenomorph. The next installment should be called Alien:David.

Replies

Ati

Member

481

Posted Jul-27-2017 12:48 PM

Ruined?

dk

Member

259

Posted Jul-27-2017 2:17 PM

No.

Lawrence of Arabia

Member

53

Posted Jul-27-2017 2:40 PM

He was the best part aside from all the cool set pieces and aliens. Also the themes were awesome.

"The trick, William Potter, is not minding that it hurts."

Space JOC

Member

0

Posted Jul-27-2017 2:43 PM

Absolutely not

joylitt

Member

126

Posted Jul-27-2017 2:59 PM

Everybody jumped the gun before even knowing that the OP wrote... :-) Because, in a way, the exaggerated focus on David together with the neglect of the human element of the story did ruin the movie.

Ati

Member

481

Posted Jul-27-2017 3:03 PM

IRaptus

Moderator

115

Posted Jul-27-2017 3:04 PM

definitely not! David needs a really strong Engineer and/or human counterpart someone capable of opposing him. He has sort of been flying under the radar so far. With his transmission to W-Y at the end of Covenant I think he has signalled his intention to become a true antagonist.

 

IRaptus

Moderator

115

Posted Jul-27-2017 3:05 PM

bring it on human peasants XD

 

Lilly (Svanya)

Admin

121

Posted Jul-27-2017 3:36 PM

Hells no, he's the best part!

Lilly (Svanya)

Admin

121

Posted Jul-27-2017 3:36 PM

UGH, i'm double posting for some reason. *cries*

dk

Member

259

Posted Jul-27-2017 3:52 PM

Now that the actual post is here, I still give a resounding NO!

joylitt

Member

126

Posted Jul-27-2017 4:01 PM

Janekripley76 I totally agree with you. To me the character of David doesn't make much sense anymore. I would say an AI should be fascinated by the prospect of knowledge and exploring the cosmos. His personal vendetta to me is nonsense. However, there is still hope future installments will move away from the mad scientist plot and go back to the real marrow of this franchise, which is cosmic horror.

JOHNNYMORPH

Member

0

Posted Jul-27-2017 4:12 PM

David8 didn't ruin Alien Covenant, the negative issues with the movie are much more varied.

Michael Fassbender did a great job playing David8/Walter, he's in my opinion, maybe the best actor in the World if we consider his performances over the last 5 years.

One thing I noticed about Alien Covenant, David8 seemed to have put weight on, looked bigger. In Prometheus, David8 was very thin. 

Can Androids get fat?!!

Starlogger

Moderator

44

Posted Jul-27-2017 4:23 PM

The FOCUS on David as a main character is what I didn't like. He is merely PART of the evolution of a magnificent being that was a threat to the Engy's at least 2000 + years prior. NOW, it is time to expand the story and explore THEIR point of view and part(s) in the story...

 

AND finally to REALLY show who the "Space Jockey" on that derelict REALLY is. NO ONE buys that it was a 9 foot engineer. No one. I will not accept that. So, I'm ready for an "Uber" Engineer or something of the sort. I can accept the "suit" concept, but not the size differential. We HAVE to have THAT story.

joylitt

Member

126

Posted Jul-27-2017 4:30 PM

Starlogger Yes. The Engineers' and the xenomorphs' evolutions are intertwined, that is obvious to me. And David does not have anything to do with it. It is time to stop the android psychodrama and think about delivering some real sc-fi.

Ati

Member

481

Posted Jul-27-2017 4:36 PM

JOHNNYMORPH - Yes, I think you're right, David looked fatter, but I think that was intentional since they wanted to show that he hasn't had access to spare parts, etc. But it was a mistake, because in this way Walter looked fat as well. Making of Assassin Creed was very close to Covenant's, Fassbender looks in that movie OK... better than OK. More training, more muscles, you look more... :) So he looked more in Covenant as well, but his face was not OK, I agree with you.

Ati

Member

481

Posted Jul-27-2017 4:38 PM

Lilly (Svanya) - Oh, Lilly, I have just realised that Walter does not step back in that scene. Walter wanted that kiss, too. :D

Ati

Member

481

Posted Jul-27-2017 4:42 PM

'To me the character of David doesn't make much sense anymore. I would say an AI should be fascinated by the prospect of knowledge and exploring the cosmos. His personal vendetta to me is nonsense.' - by joylitt

Zzzzzz.... Zzzzzz... Zzzzzz....

JOHNNYMORPH

Member

0

Posted Jul-27-2017 4:46 PM

Ati, Obviously Fassbender will not be the same body shape as 5 years ago when they filmed Prometheus, but I think it was a bit of an oversight. David8 looked alot thinner/fragile in Prometheus and in Alien:Covenant he was more solid/muscle/thicker.

They could have asked Fassbender to lose more weight so he would look more similar to his look in Prometheus. Michael Fassbender dropped alot of weight for his breakthrough role of Bobby Sands in 'Hunger', so he's no stranger to doing this.

Ati

Member

481

Posted Jul-27-2017 4:50 PM

You are right, but the two films were too close to each other, in Assassin he had to have that extra body and it was impossible for him to lose weight for Covenant.

Assassin's Creed:

JOHNNYMORPH

Member

0

Posted Jul-27-2017 5:11 PM

Ati, Yeah that's a good point about Assassin's Creed and the timings of the filming. There would've been no time to lose extra weight before filming started on AC.

Lawrence of Arabia

Member

53

Posted Jul-27-2017 5:12 PM

I do not see why it's so hard to believe. David is 'perfection'. He was humanity's best product and the Alien is a biomechanoid which insinuates that he was created/manufactured. David reminds me of Giger a little in that he dreamed this creature into existence. He wanted to create. Engineers created humans, humans create synths. The Engineers saw that humanity lost their way and became monsters but little did they know that they created an even worse monster, David. David creates death incarnate and the universe will know it's wrath. It's poetic. I also don't see how it's origins cheapens how scary the monster is. A monster is a monster no matter how you look at it. A planet of Xenos wouldn't make sense beacuse how would that ecosystem work? The Xeno would destroy it. The Engineers did have a hand in the Xeno through the Deacon, as shown in Prometheus through the murals. David simply reverse engineered their product and perfected it. It's still not in the state we see it in Alien but it is getting there.

 

An android creating the synth makes sense, especially David. Remember how awestruck Ash, Bishop, and Call were with the Xeno? That's only cuz something so complex can only be done by a fellow synthetic. Prometheus was always David's movie, not Shaw's. Humans acted callously and treated David like he was nothing more than a tool. Weyland ad humanity was obsessed with finding their creators and in turn infected David. I like the Xeno's origin as it is filled with madness, chaos, and uncertainty. 

"The trick, William Potter, is not minding that it hurts."

IRaptus

Moderator

115

Posted Jul-27-2017 5:19 PM

David was alone on the planet for 10 years and let himself go a bit XD

 

dk

Member

259

Posted Jul-27-2017 5:22 PM

Weight gain and aging- Weyland thought of every detail!

joylitt

Member

126

Posted Jul-27-2017 5:25 PM

Lawrence of Arabia I get it. You really like the idea of David creating the xenomorph. I respect your opinion. But I would rather see a sci-fi movie based on evolution, not on creation.

Ati

Member

481

Posted Jul-27-2017 5:25 PM

Lawrence of Arabia - Yes. Full stop. :)

Let me allow to contribute with these Fassbender gifs:

BigDave

Moderator

267

Posted Jul-27-2017 5:28 PM

I can understand some are not happy with a view things about the David Character, the Homo-Erotic tones did wind a few up, that lead to a number of Posts on here really bashing him.

I say he was just Sexually curious, but some of the Innuendo belonged to Movies like the Carry on Movies or the Monty Python ones.   And not really a Alien Franchise movie that was intended to Scare us.

But i think he did a decent job, sometimes you are limited by the Script that you are given and AC did also suffer from trying to cover too much within 2 hours and so the movie suffered a bit from not having another 10-15 minutes about Davids Character.

As far as Dr Shaw, she did get a  lot of stick from fans a number was not pleased with her Character, but i know Noomi Rappace can perform very well and given a Arc to her Character from the events of Prometheus, they could have had the traumatic events change her and Noomi could have played a more disturbed Dr Shaw as opposed to a bit Naive Character.

FOX and RS had sat down and taken note of a few criticisms with Prometheus and felt that indeed following a movie that was basically be like the Crossing Prologue only about at least a hours worth of this with some interaction with Engineers or other beings  would not maybe impress a majority of fans.

FOX felt the Franchise needed the Xenomorph back, and Eggs, Face Huggers and Big Chap... the only things it was missing was the Queen... I do hope FOX now dont think David is a bad Character and give him the Dr Shaw Treatment and then give us Queen and Ripley.. that would be a Sad and Bad Move.

You see Ridley Scott was very impressed with the David Character, and felt there was a Story to be told there about his development and RS is also a fan of Fassbender, who's performance in Prometheus was excellent dare i say maybe one of the best Performances in a Alien Movie.

Yeah i know David creating the Xenomorph may upset some, but RS is looking at the BIG THEME here... this is Creation, and Rebellion by Creation and Hubris in Creation. 

A tale of Creator creates, then Creation sees itself as not having to serve the Creator and strives to overthrow its creator, and then in turn wishes to sub-create themselves and then Repeat the Process....  a constant creation/rebellion/sub-create/rebellion theme.

We have THESE Godlike wanna be Kings the Engineers, who played a Role in Creation of Mankind and other Humanoids (it would be interesting to see what layers of Hierarchy are above these beings as it could be they also rebelled against their creators too.

So these beings play a Massive Role in Mankinds Creation and Evolution and then at some point they are upset with us, they see we are a Race who are not as subservient to them as they liked, they would Fear that the potential for rebellious nature could rise.. maybe because they had done so to their Creators/Hierarchy.

So they decide to DESTROY is by Creating or experimenting with the Black Goo..... a TOOL they may have modified in order to DESTROY their Wayward CHILDREN but this Back Fires on them.....

Why they never came back who knows... Maybe if they decided to Abandon us as the attempt to destroy us proved costly so they would leave us to ROT...

Their Hubris comes from their Arrogance of their Superiority where they would ASSUME without the Engineers Help, Mankind 2000 years ago would NEVER Evolve to have Technology to Reach the Stars.

A Great Hubris for them is that Mankind not only evolved to reach the Stars but also Sub-Created its own Creation the Androids and One of these (David 8) is able to use the Engineers Technology, understand their ways and writings and not be effected by the Deadly Weapon the Engineers had intended on us, but backfired.... It was a Weapon they could not control.

But David could, and he takes a Ship of their Bio-Weapons and Unleashes HELL on those Engineers, thus having it that the Engineers Creations, own Creation is able to Master the Engineers Deadly weapon intended to destroy their own creation.. And Its via the Engineers Hubris over how naive they are to think Mankind Alone can not Advance and Create such things as David.... This has Proved the Engineers undoing.

But then this Hubris is a Large one for Mankind, as David is rebellious he does not see Humans as superior but in-superior and not Worthy of Existence.... and so Mankind playing GOD (Weyland) in Creating Life in David, has proven to had sealed its own Downfall as David  now Turns on his Creators and he is able to Turn the Horrid Bio-Weapon the Engineers Created but could not Control.. into something FAR MORE Deadly..

I think this is a very interesting Curve-Ball and i am sure RS reasons for having David create the Xenomorph is the same as i highlighted above.

The Question then comes.... Does David Eventually Fall to the Same Hubris of his creators and then our creators too (The Engineers) does Davids Creation prove his Downfall in the End?

 

 

I hope that the only AWAKENING we are in for is FOX/RS wake up and learn from their mistakes.

Lawrence of Arabia

Member

53

Posted Jul-27-2017 6:02 PM

Thank you BigDave :-) The one part I don't agree about is the sexual innuendo with David's character. Remember Ash from the first Alien with Ripley and the rolled up magazine? The creature is phallic and represents rape. Giger's artwork too is very sexual. Sex has a place in the Alien franchise.

"The trick, William Potter, is not minding that it hurts."

BigDave

Moderator

267

Posted Jul-27-2017 6:25 PM

By sexual innuendo i mean the Scenes that could imply Sexual  Moments but are not.... The David "you blow and ill do the fingering" part especially  You dont know if its intended as such or it simply was not...

The Ash Scene is not really sexual innuendo but a actually kind of Rape Attempt.... and i swear the first time i saw AC when David had caught Daniels looking at the Pictures he had drawn.. i was just expecting David to roll one of them up and try and choke Daniels with it... in another Nod/Easter Egg to Alien.

I wonder if they did consider that.

Oh if you like sexual innuendo this is one of my Favorites... those from the UK will remember this Show ;)

I felt some dialog between David was a bit like this, whether it was intended or not.... i felt it was not suited to a Alien Movie, but i could see the funny side of it.... but i know it did upset some lol

 Edit after watching it lead me to Rainbow for Adults Video.. i wont post it here because its well very harsh language lol...

I hope that the only AWAKENING we are in for is FOX/RS wake up and learn from their mistakes.

Lawrence of Arabia

Member

53

Posted Jul-27-2017 6:32 PM

I got ya lol I believe Ridley did intend for those scenes to be humorous as he's stated getting the viewer to laugh opens them up to being scared easier. He also said he likes to have a little fun in his script. I really enjoyed it lol "you blow and ill do the fingering"  That sh*t was the funniest. I see how people are using it to the films detriment but I thought it added to it, but that's my opinion.

"The trick, William Potter, is not minding that it hurts."

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About Alien: Covenant

Alien: Covenant Movie

Release Date:

May 19th, 2017

Plot Synopsis:

Ridley Scott returns to the universe he created in ALIEN with ALIEN: COVENANT, the second chapter in a prequel trilogy that began with PROMETHEUS -- and connects directly to Scott’s 1979 seminal work of science fiction. Bound for a remote planet on the far side of the galaxy, the crew of the colony ship Covenant discovers what they think is an uncharted paradise, but is actually a dark, dangerous world -- whose sole inhabitant is the "synthetic" David (Michael Fassbender), survivor of the doomed Prometheus expedition.

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