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To be honest

2 Upvotes27 RepliesUpvoteAdd A Reply
Forum Topic

dk

Jul-22-2017 11:40 PM

Sorry, Sir RS. You wanted to bring back a great franchise and it has polarized fans since 2012. With all due respect, I think the time has come to wrap it up for better or worse. 

Honestly, as a fan of the franchise, I have experienced more engagement of the series on a website with writings and ideas from laypeople, armatures and hobbyists.

Maybe it is not the beast that is cooked, but perhaps it is the franchise that is cooked. It is difficult not to be cynical at this time. 

Just my two cents.

27 Responses to To be honest

joylitt

Jul-23-2017 12:08 AM

Well I don't think if for Ridley to decide what he wants to do with the franchise because it is not his property.  I think the xenomorph is a character much like Dracula, Batman or King Kong, and it can be brought back to the screen many times along the years, albeit with different results depending on the the talent involved and on whether it is a fresh take on the story or not.

joylitt

Jul-23-2017 12:11 AM

@dk Did you watch the movie already?

I Raptus

Jul-23-2017 2:19 AM

perhaps it is Ridley Scott that is cooked. And i say this as a big fan of the man.

Thoughts_Dreams

Jul-23-2017 3:37 AM

I think that Scott seems to have too much of an influence in this. Imagine how it would have been if he hadn’t gone with Lindelof as a writer. They also made mistakes with Covenant so these are two about average movies from Scott so it is difficult to not see an eventual pattern about it.

sherris

Jul-23-2017 6:19 AM

The thing i struggle with is the fact that even after the u turns and indecisiveness that brought us A:C - It still could have been saved to some degree with just some small dialogue to explain some of the questions posed in Prometheus.

Then we would of got A:C which is a decent enough action flick which happens to be set in a franchise i love. 

AND some answers from Prometheus. Just something while the crew and David were in The City. All these expensive and beautiful sets are meaningless when the characters dont acknowledge them and tie them into the film.

Now this would be a far from great situation but it would of turned the 3/5 reviews to maybe 4/5 and the whole outlook for the future would of been okay. We would accept it because we are fans of it. For better or worse. Fox never knew what to do with it and have made some appalling exec decisions. 

We dont expect classic after classic. Just a continuation of the story you began telling us. Dont tell us it is something that it is not.

By that i mean as a follow up to Prometheus A:C is terrible.

However, as a standalone throw away action flick it is decent enough.

The majority of negative reviews point to the fact that as a sequel it revealed nothing and had hardy anything to do with Prometheus.

Take This.... This is the blood of our lord

MonsterZero

Jul-23-2017 6:31 AM

Nah. ALL the fan bases in any movie/book/entertainment series are split...tons of infighting.They can't agree on anything. 

Sports the same way.

Always waiting for that next great athlete/director to propel their team/franchise. 

 

Lawrence of Arabia

Jul-23-2017 11:55 AM

dk

I'm disappointed in you man. Have you seen Covenant yet? Every fanbase is split and always bickering and I've been to many forums. Anime, comics, games, sports, their is always bickering about why x decision was bad or good. Rebooting or retconing Scott's films at this point is unwise and rude, the man created this franchise. Yes, Dan O' Bannon and Ron Shussett wrote the original screenplay but if they did things their way we would have a B-Movie by the name of StarBeast with a totally different monster. Scott got Fox to raise the budget, he got Giger on board, he dealt with the companies hounding, built the sets, and still pulled off a classic. Scott is playing the long game and we need to be patient and appreciate what we are getting. To take it from him now is just not right. Every Alien film since the original has polarized fans.

"The trick, William Potter, is not minding that it hurts."

Lawrence of Arabia

Jul-23-2017 12:02 PM

Covenant is an unorthodox sequel but to say it had nothing to do with Prometheus is wrong. David's character development started in Prometheus. What he found, his logic, it all started there. We will get our answers and we would have sooner but Scott felt he should bring the Xenos in a lot sooner and that is what Covenant's about, re-introducing the space menace.

"The trick, William Potter, is not minding that it hurts."

I Moon Girl

Jul-23-2017 12:46 PM

I can't say if Scott should be removed from the franchise until AFTER Alien: Awakening.  The movie was in the process of being written as Alien: Covenant was being finished up!  I see A:C and A:A are going to be a massive story spanning over 4 hours to bring us something that ties back to Prometheus and pulls us forward, and possibly into, Alien.  We cannot judge A:C completely until AFTER we see A:C.

Prometheus had an ending which led us to expect an obvious sequel where Shaw and David meet the Engineers in some way.  It was a solid ending.  A:C leaves us hanging and waiting for the next story.  I think A:C is the first Alien movie where we are left hanging.  That's something to be remembered when judging it.

Another thing on Prometheus...  When I saw that ending, I thought if the sequel would be written correctly, it could be a good movie where Shaw meets those Engineers and maybe talks to them through David, but that IS NOT what we got.  I am so glad it's more complicated then that!  Prometheus was a 9 outta 10 at best only because something scenes in there could have been done slightly differently.  I don't care what anybody says!!!  Prometheus was awesome!  If they don't see that, then they aren't watching the movie with fresh eyes.  I admit, it IS NOT perfect, like Alien was.  A problem with Prometheus is people are watching as a movie which relates to the Alien franchise, which could be why people have mixed opinions about it.

Alien: Covenant was worse than Prometheus in my opinion.  I guess an 8 outta 10 at best.  The problem was that is WAS NOT SCARY.  It maintained a level of fear in me throughout the movie, but there were no scenes where I $H!t my paints.  I did in Alien, Aliens, some in Alien3 (it's been awhile since I watched it though), and more than some in Alien: Resurrection.  I also did in Prometheus, but Prometheus was also a sophisticated and intellectual movie, so it doesn't have to scare as much.  Alien: Covenant had NO SCENES according to me even though it should have had at least one, especially with the Xeno being back in the franchise.

BlackGooDrinker

Jul-23-2017 2:27 PM

Prometheus should have been a new direction and perhaps a franchise of its own. The Engineers and the creation of mankind. No aliens needed. 

 

Is there an agenda the mods are not telling us about? ;)

ridinvail

Jul-23-2017 2:35 PM

I Moon Girl and BlackGooDrinker. I couldnt agree with you more. Prometheus kicked ass, it was philosophical where few movies go into. Covenant was terrible.

Lawrence of Arabia

Jul-23-2017 2:54 PM

The alien is too beautiful, too rich of a creation to leave gathering dust on the shelf. Prometheus was a new direction but it was always intended to be an Alien prequel. I think that's where people are misinterpreting Covenant, as they see that the Xenomorph was just "shoe-horned" in. I do agree that Scott originally thought to bring the Xenos in later but brought them in Covenant because of the outcry during Prometheus. I get the frustration at the lack of Engineers or their background but it was intended for Awakening. I don't see how a "true" Prometheus sequel would work exactly. Would Shaw be kicking Engineer ass with her sidekick David or breaking bread with them? Covenant was still philosophical, it was about creation and destruction and the implications of such grandiose themes. I feel like Awakening will right the ship some feel have gone off kilter.

"The trick, William Potter, is not minding that it hurts."

Capt Torgo

Jul-23-2017 4:23 PM

I'll take campy AVP or Resurrection any time DK! I think it's the wrong cook in the kitchen but that's just my vibe. Who knows what happens to our beloved X. Maybe the Android Show spin-off is cooked? Not sure what Fassbinder would want for a sequel but if the budget is drastically cut he may just have his likeness used as a corpse. Undoubtedly Ridley had plans for Walter or he would not have spent all that time and money shooting promos for "we are BladeRunner". It was all there to make AC decent for myself but how nobody saw those tropes and terrible dialogue is just beyond me. My heart can't take another Oram, poor Crudup but I dont blame him for taking the job. There are so many hungry and talented directors out there, give them and us a chance. Xeno is un-cookable and anything else that follows should honor Giger and O'Bannon and our intelligence.

Sherris I agree completely with you and others. Laurence Arabia= I get where you appreciate the long game and "smart talk" of great poets and androids debating it's creators but......you simply can not make a rational argument for how stupid these characters are: Oram is so stupid he would never be picked as an astronaut! No astronauts are going to be saying "sugardick" and "sweet tits" even if they are couples. More than half the film is a rehash anyways. Sure it looks and sounds great but you can't piss off the general public with these terrible characters. At least I got Prometheus before he drove his bus into the ditch. Glad you liked it but the box office results are disastrous.

Lawrence of Arabia

Jul-23-2017 4:44 PM

I hate this fanbase. Nitpicky as all hell and misinterprets everything. I either hope we get Awakening or nothing at all cause this fanbase doesn't deserve it. 

"The trick, William Potter, is not minding that it hurts."

dk

Jul-23-2017 5:02 PM

Lawrence of Arabia Yep. AC will require re watches though. The David/Walter angle is very interesting to me.

There are a few recent threads on how to connect to Alien from members that are interesting to me and very different from what RS seems to be doing. We shall see.

You are correct that the franchise has always been polarizing except I didn't notice that until Alien 3. To me, it means the fan base is passionate.

As for getting Awakening or nothing at all, I would be fine with nothing at all at this time. I really don't think Alien needed a prequel or was meant to have one when it was made.

Per the OP, I stand behind what is stated regarding better ideas from forum members.

Lawrence of Arabia

Jul-23-2017 5:27 PM

I'll leave you guys to your fan fics then.

"The trick, William Potter, is not minding that it hurts."

I Raptus

Jul-23-2017 5:51 PM

I don't feel the problem is the fan-base, it is FOX's constant meddling, second-guessing, misinterpreting/over-analysing their own product.

This has led to a frustratingly inconsistent and uncoherent direction for the franchise. The fans would accept (maybe not like) the direction if they just backed their Director/Writer vision. The constant back-flipping and re-writing is what is leading to divided nature of the fans

dk

Jul-23-2017 6:09 PM

Lawrence of Arabia We all have our likes and dislikes. This forum would become pointless and boring if everyone agreed about everything imo.

Jay Johns

Jul-23-2017 8:05 PM

The problem is that people don't know what they want. AVP is a disgrace. The predator can only see heat signatures and the alien gives off NO HEAT! Or did the trolls forget Aliens. The prequels are good and Ridley Scott should have stayed the course instead of listening to all the incompetent crying of so called fans and critics. Maybe if this was a Disney franchise there wouldn't be half the trolls................

sherris

Jul-24-2017 1:34 AM

JayJohns -

Yes. Really good points

I felt a little cheated after A:C as it was billed as a straight sequel. If there was something more concrete i could appreciate the "long game", i would of loved to walk out of A:C thinking: oh i cant wait until the next one, that was amazing and a real surprise. 

But it wasnt like that. Fox meddled, things went on behind the scenes, stories changed etc..

It had a negative effect on the film.

As a standalone action flick A:C is decent enough.

As a sequel it is terrible.

We still have a little hope though so i am not giving up. I want another movie or 2 to wrap the prequels up. Although i think 1 is enough especially as it may of taken a decade for 3 films to land. That is bad

Take This.... This is the blood of our lord

Cerulean Blue

Jul-24-2017 8:26 AM

I think I would be happy to have 3-5 more films, as I cannot imagine my day without you all here & the discussions we are able to create!!

Starlogger

Jul-24-2017 8:43 AM

C'mon dk. The franchise is fine and dandy. The scripts need talent, however!

Kethol

Jul-24-2017 9:58 AM

Not cooked for me. Bring on the next one and get back to the Engineer storyline.

ali81

Jul-24-2017 11:58 PM

I wouldn't go as far as to say the fans are split. that's being generous. from what I see its about 80% who feel completely drained by the way the prequels are shaping up. so much potential and AC so hotly anticipated. just look at the number of threads and posts on here from the months leading upto the movie. id agree with kethol, its not cooked yet but RS has to get the engineers out the packaging and let them play. wev had the xeno, wev had 2 movies on david (no matter how good Fassbender is), now its time for something different and all they have that fits the bill are the engineers. done right, with a good budget and screen writer, they could completely revitalise the whole franchise 

Thoughts_Dreams

Jul-27-2017 3:41 AM

I don’t agree that it was an action movie as Sherris said that it was. Unfortunately it was too slow for example when they were in David’s cave (Walter and David). That scene was somewhat interesting but it was too slow or when she went (Hernandez?) and freshened up before getting killed by a monster. Alien Covenant had too many scenes like that and the fact that there was too little character development made it worse.

 

As far as the fanbase is concerned I like that there are different opinions among people. This makes for interesting discussions but I understand that you feel the way you feel about this Lawrence of Arabia.

 

AC was better than Prometheus because at least we didn’t get characters like Fifield, Milburn, and Shaw. It was closer to the horror roots of Alien.

 

To me the scare factor wasn’t that big but there were some things that were nasty like how Ledward (was that the name?) was infected by the spores and the ship action scene when Daniels hangs outside the ship was good.

 

Please don’t turn Alien into Blade Runner 2, unfortunately this seems to be the way it turns out now even though Fassbender did a good job in AC. I am sort of worried that the next Alien movie might be like this, yikes.

ali81

Jul-27-2017 3:58 AM

I liked fifield and I much preferred shaw to daniels. different types of character I know but shaws death had quite an impact imo where as if daniels dies, I wont bat an eyelid. she couldv died at any time for me as I just saw her as one of the crew.

as for horror. I wouldn't class AC as a horror in any way at all. in that area it is so far behind alien it isn't even in its shadow. but that's just my opinion.

ali81

Jul-27-2017 4:03 AM

Tennessee was good, walter was meh so so, david was good and the rest of the characters just had no impact on me at all. the neomorph was good and I loved the style of the protomorph. im so gutted wer not getting to see those 2 face off as I think that wouldv been epic even though I think the protomorph would have been fairly quick in dispatching the neo

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