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Ridley Scott explains why David bombed the Engineers!
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Alien: Covenant

Alien: Covenant - Prometheus sequel by Ridley Scott

Alien: Covenant

COUNTDOWN TO COVENANT MISSION LAUNCH:

Awakening, Vickers, Engineers, Space Jockeys and Biomechanoids

Working Joe

Member

6

Posted May-15-2017 5:01 AM

I made a thread earlier regarding this topic which was for some reason never posted, so ill try again.

AWAKENING:

I got some interesting ideas for the next movie (which is rumored  to be Awakening, the bridge between Prometheus and Covenant). Im so excited for the possibility to see Shaws journey and their discovery of (what i presume) a subspecies of the engineers and their "paradise". Since there is 10 years between Covenant and Prometheus, there is alot of room for an interesting story. I was also picturing a parallell story where we follow a small rescue team who set out to explore what happened to the Prometheus at LV-223. This would set up for some nice Alien action as we would get to see the Deacon in its fully grown size (hopefully) and ofcourse the black goo wrecking havoc. Maybe also get more information of what happened at the base, what the engineers purpose was and exploring more of the backstory of both the engineers and their bioweapon. What i also find really interesting is the idea that they might find vickers and find out she is in fact a robot. I dont really find this that far fetched since the reason her not knowing it could be because she was an experiment by Peter Weyland. But i guess she must have been a different kind of android with red blood to make her believe the lie...

"PARADISE"

Another forum member suggested that the Derelict (in Alien) is a female reproductive system. I found this to be a really fascinating idea. Would probably also explain why the spacejockey in Alien is fused with the chair. The ship, the jockey and everything in it is in a way one living organism. 

I would love if there was in fact a "space jockey" race that created the engineers. This would explain the differences between the derelicts and size of the engineers. Maybe the engineers were just worshiping the space jockeys and mimicking their technology? The derelict in Prometheus/Covenant is clearly different than the one in Alien, much less Biomechanical and more "sterile and metallic". The derelict in Alien is so "lifelike" in a way it all hangs together (the biological look of it, the jockey fused with the chair, everything connected). 

Maybe this race is dead and when David goes to their homeworld he uses some of their DNA to mutate himself to be a bigger, stronger biomechanoid who can operate their ships (maybe becoming the spacejockey in Alien) which would make him vulnerable to the xenomorphs and alien pathogen.

Then he would use the colonists to produce the eggs on the ship.

I know im running wild here but i love these ideas. What do you guys think? 

EDIT: Updated the part about Meredith Vickers.

Replies

WilliamPotter

Member

3

Posted May-15-2017 9:39 AM

your post did not come up. 

poochies

Member

0

Posted May-15-2017 9:58 AM

strange I'm seeing a lot of posts not showing are they hidden ? 

Working Joe

Member

6

Posted May-15-2017 11:23 AM

What the hell... I have tried posting this topic twice, but it never shows up. This is the closest thing i have come to starting the topic lol.

BigDave

Moderator

261

Posted May-15-2017 4:58 PM

LOL Glad this has posted now..

Nice Topic to debate....  i am not sure we will know what happened to Shaw and all those Questions.. well we will but only via a Book..

Its looking Shoe-horned for David to go to LV-223 and the results of the next movie set after the year 2105 leads to the Derelict... But i know some will be disappointed with this because of the whole Timeline and how the Ship looked Ancient and the Timeline..

I have a idea which i may start to work into a Draft, that can bring back the Space Jockey being Large and Ancient, but i wont post it here as this is your Topic for you ideas and so i dont want to try and Steal any Thunder ;)

Absolutely the Derelict looked more Organic than the Juggernauts, the Space Jockey (13-15ft) is larger than the LV-223 Engineers 8ft (in Space Suits) and slightly less Organic.

So it does appear, and we can assume (but may be in-correct) that maybe the LV-223 Engineers had Stolen, or Re-Engineered the Technology.

Shaw asked who created them as far as the Engineers, Ridley said he did not want to meet GOD in the first movie.. So indeed we can speculate that their is a Hierarchy above the Engineers.

We could maybe even see a Parallel kind of Story to David's, in that the Engineers was indeed a Creation by some other Race (Space Jockey) who are Taller and use similar Space Suits but it could be left open to how Human they would look.

Like David, the Engineers Rebel against their creators and wish them destroyed and then they Re-engineer their Technology.

There is a Story to be Told right there.

 

Wishing those around the World who finally get to see AC this week a very good weekend

sherris

Member

0

Posted May-16-2017 11:11 AM

i sure hope so!!

if prometheus is going to have more input in the franchise remains to be seen

so if you have some ideas for potential scenarios or stories then that could turn out to be all we have.  i would be very interested to hear anything anyone has on prometheus/engineer stories.  i have some ideas myself and have spent a lot of hours theorising potential background and mythology connected with what we see on 223 in prometheus.

Tonehound

Member

12

Posted May-17-2017 3:13 AM

* Attention, Chris 

Can you check the site. I and others are having trouble posting, replying and inserting links and images. I have even been logged out of my account and on other occasions taken to a blank page.

Could you look into this please.

Thanx :)

Proton

Member

1

Posted May-17-2017 9:24 AM

I would definitely like to see the Deacon in action, although I'm not sure if we'll see it again. In the Prometheus Fire and Stone comics it is implied that it became a huge organic mountain due to exposure to the black goo, and thus I'm not sure if he can still have this fate if he appears in Awakening. Although I don't think Ridley would care too much, he's probably not afraid to retcon a couple of things.

Working Joe

Member

6

Posted May-17-2017 10:43 AM

I dont think the fire and Stones comic is Canon. Doesnt that include Predators? 

Tiwaz

Member

16

Posted May-17-2017 10:52 AM

@Working Joe

Fire and Stone is canon even though it has Yautja.

Working Joe

Member

6

Posted May-17-2017 12:48 PM

My god please tell me thats not the case. I like predator as a standalone movie but i hate the " AVP" idea. I think its horrible. Even Ridley himself has stated he hates the predator/Alien mashup. 

I doubt it the comics hold much value canonwise.

Tiwaz

Member

16

Posted May-17-2017 1:07 PM

Fox owns it and Fox says what is canon. Even some of the newer novels involve predators and they're sold as canonical. 

As for Mr. Scott, I've chosen to ignore him. He changes his mind more often than my neighbor changes her undies.

Blackwinter-witch

Member

34

Posted May-17-2017 1:46 PM

My literary works might not be, and may never be, Canonical but I suspect you'll enjoy the directions I explore.
Unlike FOX, I listen to the fanbase, and aside from a buncha bratcats I have no one kibbitzing in my works.

The ALIEN franchise might belong to FOX, but the realms of FanFiction are open to all.

I will say this, at risk of being spoilery:

1; I ONLY base things off Movie Canon, and extrapolate off such as need be, but am careful to try to work within the 'Ridley Scott Frame' of things.

2; I'm not doing this as a summer-box-office-cash-in, obviously. The Novel is well over 60,000 words and the tie-in short story is building rapidly.

2; I don't care what David does, he didn't create the eggs found aboard the Derelict on LV-426, which is Ancient and at least a few centuries old. It is also a quite different model of ship from the juggernauts seen in PROMETHEUS and seen in the trailers for ALIEN: Covenant.

3; David as Space Jockey is too simplistic and violates the temporal Canon.

4; LV-426 has a story all it's own.

5; I will be addressing the Deacon's fate, it takes a turn I think folks will find satisfyingly different.

6; The Big Chap does appear, I mean The Alien, not a drooling aggro space-ant or some bastardized creation by a mad android.

7; There's a more thorough, intelligently conducted and carried out exploration of the buildings on LV-223. There is yet one Engineer to be awakened.

*NEVER trust anything that won't die when u tear it's head off.*

Working Joe

Member

6

Posted May-17-2017 1:52 PM

Then ill just ignore the comics, as long as they dont make it to the big screen..

Just as resurrection and A3, avp doesnt exist in my head. It worked as a videogame, nothing more.

I cant imagine which Alien fan would like the predators to live in the same universe, just ruins the the credibility and realistic feel imo.

How do u know so much about your neighbours underwear btw

Working Joe

Member

6

Posted May-17-2017 2:26 PM

Blackwinter:

I do not think it was THE big chap we saw in Covenant, it looks way too different than the one in Alien and it begraves quite different as well. Hell even the chestburster was completely different. 

 

Im also wondering what info you might have about the deacon? 

Tiwaz

Member

16

Posted May-17-2017 2:28 PM

SPOILERS FOR Alien:Covenan

 

 

I haven't seen A:C yet but another member who (can't remember the name) has stated that the movie doesn't show what David uses to create the Morph. It leaves room for interpretation. Maybe he uses pre-existing material, knowledge etc. If that's the case the whole "David created him" debate is only based on an interview with Sir "I'm done with the dragons". Like I said before I'm ignoring him.

I go with the stuff that is officially released. Personally I don't mind crossovers since i like both franchises. I however do not like the AVP movies. They're a pile of wasted potential to say the least.

 

Tiwaz

Member

16

Posted May-17-2017 2:33 PM

*chuckles* My neighbors.... That's just a german expression i translated. ;)

Working Joe

Member

6

Posted May-17-2017 2:57 PM

It doesnt really show you how he created the xenomorph, but implies it heavily through visuals and dialouge. 

 

Blackwinter-witch

Member

34

Posted May-17-2017 3:10 PM

Working Joe

Exactly right!

When I mention 'The Big Chap', I mean The Alien. :D

The critter seen in the ads for ALIEN: Covenant, well, that's a David created beastie, as we all know. It's cool, but it ain't The Big Chap. ;)

I have no 'inside' info, but based on what little is canonically known of the Deacon I am making some careful extrapolations as to it's nature and such.

*NEVER trust anything that won't die when u tear it's head off.*

Tiwaz

Member

16

Posted May-17-2017 3:16 PM

As I said I haven't seen it yet. Maybe it's implied but that would "plot hole" Scott's own Alien movie in terms of the jockey. Well, I'll see then, I suppose. ;)

Working Joe

Member

6

Posted May-17-2017 5:24 PM

How do you know that will plothole Alien? For what it looks like, David will be heavily involved with the derelict and its cargo on LV-426. Not to spoil anything but the ending in Covenant + what is shown of David and his creations and actions in the film, heavily implies he is responsible and foreshadows what will happen in the next film and how everything ties into the first Alien

Tiwaz

Member

16

Posted May-17-2017 5:55 PM

Plot hole in so far that the derelict is said to be older than David, thousands of years older even. Further the WY-Report (Canon) states that Weyland knew bout the LV-426 signal before Prometheus.

Working Joe

Member

6

Posted May-18-2017 5:57 AM

When you say it i actually remember reading that in the "Weyland files" on the Prometheus Blu-ray extras. Interesting. The only logical explenation for me then is that it is a ship that took off from LV-223 2000 years ago and crashlanded on LV-426 due to the obvious Alien burst. This means then that the engineers had already created the xenomorph. Would explain its more biomechanical look (engineer biosuit) in Alien.

So David was pehaps trying to recreate it? Idk.. 

Interesting indeed

Blackwinter-witch

Member

34

Posted May-18-2017 6:08 AM

Working Joe

I dunno what direction this franchise is going in anymore, but I plan to enjoy A:C. :)

BUT, I'm gonna have to deal with a pretty big schism between Franchise Canon and what's rapidly becoming (by default) My Canon.
C'est la Vie. :)
I'd hoped to be able to keep my works perfectly-aligned to Franchise Canon, but that's becoming more and more difficult.

*NEVER trust anything that won't die when u tear it's head off.*

Tiwaz

Member

16

Posted May-18-2017 6:22 AM

I wasn't sure if it was the WY-Report or the DVD-Extra. I own neither. But I know the info is there.

The "derelict vs David"-debate is going on for months now. I believe the general consensus here is that David indeed just recreated it. Perhaps without even realizing it. Reverse breeding so to say. Unless A:C undoubtedly states otherwise. 

Working Joe

Member

6

Posted May-18-2017 1:11 PM

What do you guys think about the idea of Vickers being an android, which a prometheus rescue team finds on LV-223 (parallell story with shaws journey in awakening) and "resurrects" her so they can speak to her? Too far fetched? 

Blackwinter-witch

Member

34

Posted May-18-2017 2:48 PM

Vickers being an android, no, given what we know of her personality I doubt she'd have trusted an android to be her doppleganger.

*NEVER trust anything that won't die when u tear it's head off.*

Tiwaz

Member

16

Posted May-18-2017 3:00 PM

Interesting idea.

There have been rumors her being an android. Caused by an interview with, surprise, Ridley Scott if my memory serves me right.

Blackwinter-witch

Member

34

Posted May-18-2017 5:09 PM

Vickers, she hated David, and likely all synthetics. She also seemed to have this absolute drive to protect her Inheritance...I can't see her trusting a doppleganger UNLESS it was programmed off her own brain, a 'copy' of her personality and didn't know it was an android...then, maybe.

*NEVER trust anything that won't die when u tear it's head off.*

Working Joe

Member

6

Posted May-18-2017 6:49 PM

I would assume she didnt know she was an android, that it was some kind of experiment on Peter Weylands part. 

Working Joe

Member

6

Posted May-19-2017 10:31 AM

Btw is the general consensus here (for those who have seen it) that David is taking the Covenant to LV-223 rather than Origae-6?

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About Alien: Covenant

Alien: Covenant Movie

Release Date:

May 19th, 2017

Plot Synopsis:

Ridley Scott returns to the universe he created in ALIEN with ALIEN: COVENANT, the second chapter in a prequel trilogy that began with PROMETHEUS -- and connects directly to Scott’s 1979 seminal work of science fiction. Bound for a remote planet on the far side of the galaxy, the crew of the colony ship Covenant discovers what they think is an uncharted paradise, but is actually a dark, dangerous world -- whose sole inhabitant is the "synthetic" David (Michael Fassbender), survivor of the doomed Prometheus expedition.

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ALIEN: COVENANT will act as a sequel to 2012's PROMETHEUS as well as a prequel to 1979's ALIEN. Alien fans looking to know more about ALIEN: COVENANT as well as when its first trailer is set to debut, should check back often. Alien-Covenant.com is an information resource for film enthusiasts looking to learn more about the upcoming blockbuster Alien: Covenant. Providing the latest official and accurate information on Alien: Covenant, this website contains links to every set video, viral video, commercial, trailer, poster, movie still and screenshot available. This site is an extension of the Alien & Predator Fandom on Scified - a central hub for fans of Alien and Prometheus looking to stay up-to-date on the latest news. Images used are property of their respective owners. Alien: Covenant and its associated names, logos and images are property of 20th Century Fox and are in no way owned by Scified and its related entities. This is a fan-created website for the purpose of informing and exciting fans for Alien: Covenant's release. If you have any questions about this site, its content or the Scified Network in general, feel free to contact Scified directly.

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