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Look on my works, ye Mighty, and despair!

Look on my works, ye Mighty, and despair!

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Ingeniero

PraetorianMember3381 XPApr-26-2017 12:31 PM

David 8 recites a line from the poem Ozymandias upon releasing death to those below.

Ozymandias 

I met a traveller from an antique land, 

Who said—“Two vast and trunkless legs of stone 

Stand in the desert. . . . Near them, on the sand, 

Half sunk a shattered visage lies, whose frown, 

And wrinkled lip, and sneer of cold command, 

Tell that its sculptor well those passions read 

Which yet survive, stamped on these lifeless things, 

The hand that mocked them, and the heart that fed; 

And on the pedestal, these words appear: 

My name is Ozymandias, King of Kings; 

Look on my Works, ye Mighty, and despair! 

Nothing beside remains. Round the decay 

Of that colossal Wreck, boundless and bare 

The lone and level sands stretch far away.”

63 Responses to Look on my works, ye Mighty, and despair!

BigDave

DeaconMember10324 XPApr-27-2017 4:26 PM

Looking into the Poem... (nice find by the way)

It tells the tale of someone from a far away and ancient place, who tells of the remains of a Fallen Empire a Fallen Creation,  that the Creator had decided to destroy.

The name of the Sculptor and creator Ozymandias, King of Kings!

Look on my Works, ye Mighty, and despair!

To me it maybe appears to Gods/Creators growing displeased at their Creations, and feeling that as they created it, they have the right to destroy it.

I can only think thus David is quoting that back to the Planet of those who Created Mankind, in a Mockery to what they had intended (destroy thier own creations) and that instead.... they (Ozymandias, Sculptor, Creators) will instead feel the Might of their own Works (Black Goo).

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

Ingeniero

PraetorianMember3381 XPApr-27-2017 4:56 PM

Good observation BigDave.

"When David arrives he does look a bit upset, but to me its the Look of Revenge... so who knows what triggered this..."

What if Dr. Shaw died at the hands of the Engineers during the time before he shows up like this below? 

David 8 was "moved" by her compassion and logically pursue preserving Dr. Shaw somehow because of this redeeming quality.

 

BigDave

DeaconMember10324 XPApr-27-2017 5:44 PM

Who knows..

Maybe...  While there are many possible outcomes to what happens to Shaw, we maybe need to look at in context to why would he be so upset and as if he wants Vengeance.

1) Shaw die during the Journey... if so is it due to Cryo-sleep failure, which is really Shaws fault as she wanted to get Weyland to Fund to go to LV-223 but maybe David could blame the Engineers for those Star Maps that lead Shaw to think it was a Invitation.

2) Shaw dies during the Journey from the result of the Infection, which again David is in part to blame, but then he was following Weylands Orders, and ultimately if these Engineers had not created that Place LV-223 then Shaw would have been alive.

3) She is not dead, but dying he knows the infection will take hold, he keeps her in Cryo-sleep while maybe he realizes if he takes out the Engineers, maybe he can find in the ruins a Cure?

4) Shaw again is in Cryo-sleep at the time of arrival, but David has gained a new insight into the Good in Mankind, and he finds out the Engineers have no Good Will etc, and so he wishes to Punish them to Protect Mankind.

Then we need to ask in that case, surely he would know about his Creations and the risk to Earth... why the SOS? That attracts the Covenant, and why those Experiments.

Something has happened to change David, and another thing is to consider who makes the SOS... David or Shaw or both and when?

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

Raido

FacehuggerMember194 XPApr-27-2017 6:15 PM

Has anyone else caught the author of the poem? It's Percy Shelley. Guess who his second wife was? Mary Shelley, the author of Frankenstein; Or, the Modern 'Prometheus.'

BigDave

DeaconMember10324 XPApr-27-2017 6:43 PM

Good Spot ;)

Interesting qoutes from these have been used, one by David and the other by Walter.

I wonder if Percy Shelly's Prometheus Unbound  will be loosely referenced?

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

AdamPD

FacehuggerMember198 XPApr-28-2017 5:25 PM

Interesting that Shaw is wearing her Prometheus space suit in all the shots, except when she's in the cryo chamber and when she's looking out of the "window"

What if she's not looking into space, but out at the planet below? So it's possible David did in fact wake her up apon arrival after all, or it's a shot before she enters cryosleep. (Boo! :P)

Svanya

PraetorianAdmin4317 XPApr-28-2017 5:40 PM

Great post Ingeniero, will feature this. :D

Ingeniero

PraetorianMember3381 XPApr-28-2017 5:47 PM

"Has anyone else caught the author of the poem? It's Percy Shelley. Guess who his second wife was? Mary Shelley, the author of Frankenstein; Or, the Modern 'Prometheus."

I read where others wrote of this connection Raido and great observation. Qubism wrote an excellent topic on it here

Ingeniero

PraetorianMember3381 XPApr-28-2017 5:48 PM

Thank you for the compliment Svanya.

spirit_light_speed

OvomorphMember23 XPApr-28-2017 6:17 PM

"Nothing beside remains. Round the decay 

Of that colossal Wreck, boundless and bare 

The lone and level sands stretch far away.”

 

And:

 

"There is nothing in the desert, and no man needs nothing".

Did anyone else catch the tie-in?

 

The poem is laced with a powerful irony. Time is the great equalizer. It has subdued the grandiosity of kings and now history's remains are laughable. 

"Look on my Works, ye Mighty, and Despair" has a duel meaning ~it hints at mortality.

All things must pass, as great empires fall, their remains are swallowed by sands and dust... Beyond all power at one time? Look upon these works now and despair.

I'm left wondering if we are not seeing the shadow of David's own downfall within these words, as part of the created order, on equal footing now with mankind, "searching for our creator". A soul...

"Mortal after all"?

I absolutely love where Ridley is taking this.

 

 

BigDave

DeaconMember10324 XPApr-28-2017 7:23 PM

@spirit_light_speed

Indeed good points.... the poem does seem to hint to the fall of empires, and if we look at many Ancient Egyptian Sites (as the poem was aimed about Ramesses II

And if we assume Mankind did not evolve past the Technological Levels that it had 1000 + years ago and then Mankind died out or a countries Empire was destroyed by a Great Natural Disaster.

In thousands of years, all that remains is the ruins, buried in sand.  Thousands of years after that less and less remains.

Monuments and Statues that Kings and Rulers construct are not only a testament to their greatness but a Legacy so that when they are gone... their remains this tribute to them, so in these Stone Statues they are Immortalized.

But even in time, these things Fall and become buried among the Sands..

This brings me to David, i am sure Ridley said something about leaving a Legacy, and David wishes to Create so that he has something to leave behind, this is the purpose of creation.

And so indeed this means that quote can also apply to Davids agenda. Not only in this scene but also to his plans afterwards.

 

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

Ingeniero

PraetorianMember3381 XPApr-28-2017 7:24 PM

"I'm left wondering if we are not seeing the shadow of David's own downfall within these words, as part of the created order, on equal footing now with mankind, "searching for our creator". A soul..."

I really like your connection above and you are correct in the follow up concept things must eventually end. In this TV spot here (thank you Roger55), Ridley Scott describes how not even A.I. can control what they unleash.

So, as much as I'd love for David 8 to "live" forever, he just might not. It is refreshing to hear Scott mention David 8 alluding to more films though (same interview above).

 

Ingeniero

PraetorianMember3381 XPApr-28-2017 7:30 PM

It does appear the urns are delivered through magnetic field. First up the walls like conveyor belts coalescing into a mass of urns delivered in streams.

BigDave

DeaconMember10324 XPApr-28-2017 7:37 PM

As far as the Humanoids, i think they are related, we need to remember while the Big Head Room look like Elders, they may not be similar to how the Elders looked in Prometheus.. those Elders could now be deleted... so we could have them look like those Elders (very Prometheus Engineer looking) or they could be made to be much larger and so the intended 10-15ft instead of the 7.5ft Engineers we actually got... But the LV-223 Engineers could be shown as a 7.5ft off-shoot... and so the Sacrificial Engineer could be shown as larger or even smaller.

So those beings could be Engineers but a oversight in how they look... or they could be a creation like Mankind by the Engineers and their Hierarchy or they even could be the ones who created the Engineers.

It does look likely they are not the same race, but connected.

We need to look at what Paradise is in context to Biblical and Paradise Lost...

*Not the Place of the Gods (not Heaven too).

*Not the Place of the Angels (only Cherubim).

*Cherubim Angels watch over and protect Paradise.

*Paradise/Garden of Eden was a place created for the purpose of being the Cradle for Creation of Mankind and where Mankind would live and dwell and serve, until they upset God and was cast out.

So in context i would assume Paradise is not where the Engineers Hierarchy come from, but it was a place Humanoids are created to dwell there for a purpose where they would be watched over by some Engineers.

Those Engineers on LV-223 must have came from Paradise and once been guardians of this place before their Fall.

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

BigDave

DeaconMember10324 XPApr-28-2017 7:45 PM

@Ingeniero

Indeed they have been affected by some Gravitational Pull, likely some kind of Magnetic Effect....

I will cover some things on this on your Engineer Weapons Topic... but if people wondered "HOW THE HELL" did the Cargo Bay in Alien fit under the Derelict... well there is a similar Plot Hole at play here..

which if explained could actually explain how the Egg Chamber can be made to make more sense..

This stems from my mistake as far as where i thought the Juggernaught would connect compared to where the Cargo Bays are in Prometheus.... 

I felt the Ship either connected how it is shown to but at a angle.... but it appeared the part of the Scorpion Docking Ship looked too close to the Hole... so then i thought the Juggernaught must connect either by the Hole at the Bottom of the side in question attaching to the Top of the Juggernaught while the Juggernaught is Facing with its Arms wrapped around the back (opposite to how it actually connects).  Or while connecting like we see in the New Footage but again backwards so the 3 Vagina Holes connect to that area... that actually the other front door connects.

It now appears this Large Cargo Hold that raises the Cargo above and up, is directly under the Pilot Chamber, when in Prometheus there clearly is no space for this at all never mind where the Chair comes from.

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

BigDave

DeaconMember10324 XPApr-28-2017 7:49 PM

(A) is the Pilot Room as we see them walk to it from where the Space Jockey Suits are  (B) while (C) is the Cargo Hold they walk past the other areas i wonder are other Cargo Holds.

The only Explanation i have is that the Ground Level that the Cryo-Pods, Control Panel and Space Jockey Chair are, are all elevated to the Top, the Hole that opens up under, then has some Mechanism to then move the Urns from the Cargo Holds (C) to (A) and then Drops them.

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

BigDave

DeaconMember10324 XPApr-28-2017 8:04 PM

My explanation being above.... (F) is where the Pilot Area lifts up to during Bombardment, and (G) thus area it links up with which explains the area Shaw sets up shop to operate on David and also Gaze out of the Port Hole

But then there are Holes to this theory, because well the Alien Covenant Crew seem to enter via the Hole that David Bombards from and then they seem to have to step down to get to the Pilot Chamber.

Not a Hole in my theory my theory is a attempt to address a Hole in the entire design of the Juggernaught. Which i wonder if they have ever watched every prior movie and then worked out how the ships schematics would work out?

Does not look like it...

Unless inside is a maze of Tunnels and Parts that can movie around and the size on the inside is larger than the outside..

Like Dr Whos Tardis

Then again maybe this would explain it, and the Egg Chamber and also allow David to Time Travel back to place the Derelict in the Past lol

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

AdamPD

FacehuggerMember198 XPApr-29-2017 2:10 AM

I suppose it's always possible that the egg chamber from Alien, was indeed part of the ship, but, it was a huge container/storage area for the eggs which was docked with the ship itself, in the same way the juggernaut is docked with that ScorpoNaught thing lol.

Maybe the scorponaught is the egg chamber...somehow...

Ingeniero

PraetorianMember3381 XPApr-29-2017 1:23 PM

"those Elders could now be deleted..."

That is a very funny way of putting it...most likely true. 

"It now appears this Large Cargo Hold that raises the Cargo above and up, is directly under the Pilot Chamber, when in Prometheus there clearly is no space for this at all never mind where the Chair comes from."

I thought this exact same thing BigDave. David 8 walked through the fully-stocked cargo hold right before entering the pilots/navigation room and the walls are very similar.

Let me review your analysis above a little more and the other topic posting before I elaborate (and produce graphics)....that is great frame of reference analysis with the juggernaut scan. Thank you so much BigDave.

 

 

Ingeniero

PraetorianMember3381 XPApr-29-2017 1:30 PM

AdamPD, the other ship is massive so who knows what it could house. 

Certainly enough space to fit an assortment of Engineer nightmares.

 

 

LV426Qeen

OvomorphMember43 XPMay-24-2017 12:12 PM

If anyone is reading this string now, since we've seen that disaster of a movie, I hope you know that none of this speculation played out and nothing of the previews was seen.  No crew gathering before the journey.  No Shaw and David traveling to Paradise.  Cheesy effects for the neomorphs.  A xenomorph that burst from the chest, grows rapidly with no skin shedding, and then stands there waving at David like he's daddy.  It SUCKED!!

Ingeniero

PraetorianMember3381 XPMay-24-2017 1:44 PM

Thank you for the compliment on our discussion LV426Qeen.

I think we watched different movies and our discussion may have been too technical above. 

"none of this speculation played out"

You missed the juggernaut breakdown above LV426Qeen and the speculation about magnetic fields used to deploy the weapons (urns). I admit it is a little complicated.

Captain Oram's line to David 8 (with a green dot on his chest from Oram's rifle) in the temple regarding his perfect composure was one of the best lines of all Alien movies.

I thought the differences we saw in the creatures was due to the multiple variations of mutagen David 8 told Captain Oram about. And, in the Alien timeline, we have not see the "biomechanical" xenomorph (2122) yet that sheds it's skin and has a long incubation time.

A lot of this may have gone over your head. 

Tiwaz

ChestbursterMember528 XPMay-24-2017 2:06 PM

Easy there, Ingeniero. :) Now that i've seen it, the part where Oram follows the "Devil" to the (his) lair is easily the dumbest part on Oram's side. Especially after "I've seen the devil...".

Meine Fresse... Rarely watched a movie that was so hard to make sense of... Can't even say if I like it or not...

Eine Theorie die nicht auf Etwas solidem basiert ist für gewöhnlich nur Geschwätz.

Ingeniero

PraetorianMember3381 XPMay-24-2017 6:38 PM

Yes, Captain Oram was rather easy to manage for David 8 Tiwaz.

I was talking about the threat Oram made with his rifle right before that. Captain Oram just lost his wife, realized that his decision brought on the nightmare, and he wore his beliefs on his sleeve.

When Captain Oram shot the neomorph and David 8 screamed "NO"...yeah, I agree, why would he follow David 8 anywhere? 

What impressed me the most from the man of faith who had lost all patience was when Captain Oram said:

"David, you're going to tell me exactly what's going on or I'll seriously f*ck up your perfect composure."

That was awesome. Oram looked plum wore out and serious and that line was great. I can't argue that some of the crew didn't act like idiots.

The first thing I will not do on an alien planet is walk inside a crashed alien ship, bend over and touch a spore pod, and inhale. I don't do that with spores on Earth. He earned a mouthbuster for that.

FUQUAN

OvomorphMember26 XPMay-24-2017 8:37 PM

Now one of my all time favorite movie scenes

Ingeniero

PraetorianMember3381 XPMay-24-2017 9:51 PM

I thought Crudup was great. Especially that scene FUQUAN.

I wrote off Captain Oram a little when he seemed so reserved in the viral video but he was ready to cut David 8 in half with his rifle. He should have for his good fortune but that isn't how Alien movies work.

David 8 kept the monotone explanation going regarding the mutagen to keep Captain Oram's thoughts occupied while walking him back into the egg room.

MJD

OvomorphMember72 XPMay-25-2017 1:23 AM

well it is clear that the Novel of Frankenstein from Shelley and the Poem of her Father, Ozymandias are inside David character and movivations.

 

there is so much more though from Michelangelo, the birth of christ painting and so forth, too much for now to go in detail

 

find it fascinating how all ties into the plot, just like when David sang the song from Monte Carlo, which Lawrence of Arabia sang in the classical movie, giving David another trademark from David Lean´s masterpiece

 

Covenant with Prometheus are a work of genius, even if the pacing is still too rushed, what the hell

Ingeniero

PraetorianMember3381 XPMay-25-2017 6:48 AM

MJD, I feel the same way. I did feel like Alien: Covenant was half a movie...but a fantastic half.

"find it fascinating how all ties into the plot, just like when David sang the song from Monte Carlo"

That is great. I didn't know that in regards to the song sung in Lawrence of Arabia. Thank you. I was captivated by him singing into the polished mirror....very spooky. And when Walter told David 8 that he has a very light step when sneaking up on him...almost as good as the kiss then flute stab combo. 

David 8 was all over the place with his "emotions" and using the kiss to get close while displaying an emotional storm was perfect.

Ingeniero

PraetorianMember3381 XPMay-27-2017 10:46 PM

MJD, the novelization is phenomenal. It really does explain the motivations behind the stupid actions such as bending down towards spore pods to look (pride, finding something new, oh the scientists will love me).

There is so much more and the subtle changes from the book to the screen were for the better. Ridley Scott packed a lot into Alien: Covenant and the novelization fills in quite a bit.

Some of what I read in the book lines up with the descriptions of footage described by the media viewings such as Branson and Daniels' apartment scene. So, I'm still convinced that the follow-up to Alien: Covenant has been shot already. It may be just me but that's how I see it. Ridley Scott said he would have it into production in 14 months...not starting shooting in 14 months like some media reported. 

Libby2017

OvomorphMember16 XPMay-29-2017 5:33 PM

Sooo

 

Maybe Dr Shaw agreed with Davids plan and agreed to everything he was going to do!

 

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