Log in to unlock your profile!
Alien: Covenant

Alien: Covenant - Prometheus sequel

Alien: Covenant

The Alien: Covenant, Alien: Awakening & Prometheus Movie Community

Engineers didnt want to kill the Humans on Earth.

Don Digimon Farrakhan Magic Juan

Member

5

Posted Jan-31-2017 10:01 PM

I think some things have been overlooked in the film Prometheus. The idea that the Engineers want to destroy us is based on Shaw's assumptions, which are in turn based on the Black Goo etc. There may be 2 races of engineers, the first who were wearing Togas and had a huge ship that looks nothing like the derelict or juggernaut. That's one possibility, the other is that they are indeed the same, but the toga guys were just that much older as they seeded life on earth, and have evolved or engineered themselves into Bio-mechanical beings to deal with space travel. So the Black goo is meant to be added to water where it can have its intended effect. But what if they are just trying to mutate us to be compatible with biomechanics needed in the future. Because surely if the idea was to just wipe out humanity they would have a far more effective method. A virus could be engineered to wipe out humanity in 48 to 72 hours. No need for tons of chemicals in little containers.

 

If there were 2 different races of engineers though, it may have been an attack on the facility that they were running from, perhaps the toga guys are trying to create an uncontaminated form of humanity, and the space jockey type is trying to mutate it for some reason.

Just a few thoughts.     

28 Responses to Engineers didnt want to kill the Humans on Earth.

chli

Feb-01-2017 10:23 AM

Well, couldn't there be different castes instead of races? The engineers and humans seem to be different races since their DNA match? The cloaked ones could be the rulers or a religious sect? We then have technicians, ordinary workers etc, and perhaps women somewhere?

The awoken engineer was very hostile towards humans from the beginning and killed all of them (except Shaw) which could suggest that they are disappointed (or perhaps threatened) by humans and want to wipe them out and start all over again?

Myrddin365

Feb-01-2017 12:20 PM

I'm thinking the LV-223 Engineers HATE Xenos, and they just see us as incubators.  The thinking behind this is TL;DR so I'll leave it out.

Remember, they turned a site that appeared to have religious significance into a weapons cache/factory.

Safe? Of course he isn't safe, but he's good!

S.M

Feb-01-2017 1:14 PM

Or weapons are their religion.

And it wasn't Shaw's assumption they were going to destroy us; it was David's.

 

Myrddin365

Feb-01-2017 1:32 PM

@S.M the cargo hold full of black goo canisters headed for earth didn't require a huge intuitive leap given its obvious effect

The LV-223 engineers may have been worshipping weapons, but the other set seemed to place great significance on seeding life and the Xenos. They clearly have different values.

Safe? Of course he isn't safe, but he's good!

S.M

Feb-01-2017 1:57 PM

Or they simply changed over the course of hundreds of thousands of years.

Shaw could've worked things out but when she saw the canisters on the ship, she didn't know where it was going.  David had to tell her it was going to Earth and 'in order to create you must first destroy'.

Myrddin365

Feb-01-2017 2:15 PM

S.M. you're observations in the other thread about the star chart tablets prove that the LV-223 Engineers have a different agenda than the ones visiting earth because after the LV-223 Engineers are all but wiped out, the others kept doing the same thing they'd always done on Earth.

Safe? Of course he isn't safe, but he's good!

S.M

Feb-01-2017 2:17 PM

The tablets prove they visited in the current era.  Beyond that everything is up in the air.

Myrddin365

Feb-01-2017 2:32 PM

The catastrophe on LV-223 happened about 2000years ago +/- the youngest tablets were dated 13-1400 years ago. Very likely after the incident.

Safe? Of course he isn't safe, but he's good!

S.M

Feb-01-2017 3:02 PM

Indeed.  But that doesn't tell us anything beyond the fact we had recorded visitations in the 7th century.  Everything else is speculation.  Perhaps Covenant will shed more light on things.

BigDave

Feb-01-2017 3:06 PM

Its pretty much very open..... its one of the beauties about it all.. its so open to which way they could go...

I think again maybe David was not telling the truth at all or using miss-direction... but i like to think that actually he is spot on with what he had found out.

*The Urns are re-weaponized they are used like a Weapon.

*The effects will as far as movie showed, Mutate/Evolve Life that would have Xeno related DNA added to its Gene-Pool, everything infected would be evolved into something new.. destroyed in the process as far as having any conscious really of its old self... perhaps.. it retains something but not much.

*The ship was heading to Earth and so if it used the Urns, Life on Earth would in one sense die... but from it would evolve something new.

so the big question is when was the Urns made,  did Mankind upset the Engineers at a certain point and they then created this Weapon purely to destroy us.  So it was purposely created for the purpose of our destruction after we had finally done too much that they deemed we needed the Plug Pulling.

Or had a faction had created either on purpose or accident something related to the Xeno, that they worshiped for some reason and felt its DNA was more superior than their own DNA which is used to seed life?

Maybe this was going to be used on other worlds as a experiment or against their creators or other faction.

But then after they had came across what ever leads to the Mural.... Mankind had then upset these guys and then they thought.....  "you know what, we tried but you guys just ant worked out the way we wanted"  Maybe its time to test this new strand of DNA on a World and upgrade Life with its DNA...

Than our own Engineer DNA

 

 

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

BigDave

Feb-01-2017 3:09 PM

"The catastrophe on LV-223 happened about 2000years ago +/- the youngest tablets were dated 13-1400 years ago. Very likely after the incident."

Indeed and i tried to cover some reasons for this in a other thread the other day....

Re-post it here....

================================

As for the other Star Maps after 2000 years ago...

Well this is the grey area... its another area we cant get to  ONE working explanation..

*Did Engineers forsake the Cradle of Creation area, and after the failed attempt to destroy us...  they decided to forsake us... but they came back to still deal with other areas on Earth where there rituals and worship to the Gods had not offended them.

This leaves a Plot Hole to where have these Engineers gone?

*Did some faction who prevented the Mission, and maybe caused the Outbreak.. come down to Warn us... but these warnings why only in those other cultures far away from Europe, Africa and Middle East.  Then again we ask where did they go.

*Was as i mentioned prior there other Emissaries sent to other places, who after the abandonment of Mankind after the failed destruction of us... and fall of LV-223.... did these Emissaries remain in other areas and continued to interact with Mayan's and Polynesians . What happened to them?

*Or was the interactions from way before those later Star Maps but the tales of these Gods kept being passed down generation by generation in these Less Corrupt areas/cultures and so its a passing down of the tales, and then a re-creating of the Maps shown to ancient ancestors rather than any actual Engineers interacting after the Outbreak?

All a lot of ideas thats hard to say which would fit...  I would say the last TWO make more logical sense and less Plot Hole.

 

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

Myrddin365

Feb-01-2017 4:29 PM

@S.M. speculation is pretty much all we do on this site.  Kinda the whole point.

Safe? Of course he isn't safe, but he's good!

S.M

Feb-01-2017 4:56 PM

Absolutely. Not disputing that.

There is, of course, a difference between speculation and 'proof'.

You may be quite correct that there's another faction of Engineers with a different agenda - but it's not proven.

Tiago_miami_la

Feb-01-2017 7:16 PM

Another faction of engineers with different agendas its not proven but one faction of same angineers with same agenda is not proven either.

So speculation is healthy, fact or proof is claiming engineers made us.

Fact or proof is claiming xenos are deadly.

The fact they visited us after the incident doesnt mean they did it with good intentions as pior the incident.

S.M

Feb-01-2017 7:18 PM

They were still pointing to the same star pattern so who knows.

S.M

Feb-01-2017 7:18 PM

Edit - double post

Tiago_miami_la

Feb-01-2017 7:30 PM

Ye true. Hopefully ac will be more revealing indeed cuz atm im confused,i would like tho there was no factions.

Fire_Stream21

Feb-01-2017 8:25 PM

The Engineers didn't want to destroy us, they simply created us into.... something. Since it doesn't really kill, it actually does the complete opposite. It mutated Fifield into something but didn't kill him, and also made Shaw give birth to a trilobite which is argumentatively a queen (bred through engineer). So, the black goo is not meant to destroy us.

S.M

Feb-01-2017 8:42 PM

It's not meant to do us any good though.

From memory, Ridley says that what happened to the decapitated Engineer, would ultimately be the fate of Fifield and Charlie. ie. their bonces would explode.

Plus anyone infected like Fifield would kill a bunch of people in the process.

Quinntas

Feb-01-2017 9:57 PM

OP: your point is spot on. There are a lot more efficient ways to wipe out the life forms on any given planet. But in this story, Ridley posits that life is the result of a bioform experiment that has this black goo as a catalyst. I truly believe they wrote themselves in a corner with some of this stuff. Then made it worse with the final edit. We can thank lindeloff as he was the one who sold Ridley on using hints to concepts then moving on to the next concept to keep everyone intrigued expecting an answer, and never getting one.

Just a quick thought about why 2 more engineer visits after the botched goo bombing 2000 years ago on the Romans; is there a consensus on what the pictograms actually were? An invitation or a warning? 

If invitations, that means their homeworld is in that system of stars. And so they found the most amenable culture of that time to relay the invitation to. But the Mayans were wiped out, and the Polynesian became war-like and chose terrestrial Gods. This was probably the proverbial "last straw" and they just gave up on us. Or something in the Engineer culture had changed and/or they no longer travelled through interstellar space. We just can't know for sure until we are given an exposition scene with David. He is the only one who can read and speak "engineer". 

If the pictograms were warnings, I'm baffled.

ali81

Feb-01-2017 10:17 PM

the fact the current inhabitant of the facility rips davids head off and uses it to kill weyland tends to lend to the fact these engineers want us dead. also, the different types of substances, black goo and sacrificial substance, also suggest we r on someones death list. the suggestive scenes of the movie tell us either another faction, probably engineers, attacked these engineers for whatever reason before they were able to launch theyr weapon on earth to wipe out humanity, or theyr experiment got loose, but the awakened engineers attitude tells us what theyr mission was. it adds weight to the idea that there is great conflict in engineer society. though what is unclear and open for debate is who the original occupants of the facility were. the mural suggest religious faction may have inhabited the facility before the current rebel faction took it over. not enough of the facility was explored to give concrete evidence who was there first. it is suggested, and its my theory, the facility is that of a militant rebel faction who disapprove of humanity for whatever reason. this is all open for debate as ridley is yet to gives us much of a backstory into engineer society between the time life was seeded on earth and the deaths of the engineers on lv223

S.M

Feb-01-2017 10:18 PM

I'm not sure if there is a consensus of invitation vs. warning either way.

ali81

Feb-01-2017 10:25 PM

it just seems to suggest conflict within the engineer society which I love the idea of. gives for great potential for the series/ and ridley, to show us great visual effects and insight into theyr past and culture. and obviously answer why we seem to have be marked for destruction

Don Digimon Farrakhan Magic Juan

Feb-03-2017 11:16 AM

Hmmm... I like all the different ways everybody has used to form a legitimate debate as to the "why" in this entire storyline. I like to give things a new spin when permitted so ill mention , hold that thought.. I need to check to see if this morsel has been discovered in the Mu/th/ur forums yet, if not well then hold onto your hose.

Brendan Bagwell

May-17-2017 10:30 AM

Many people on here have used the phrases "bad for us" or "not good" and many similar terms. But if the Engineers truly created us, it's almost expected that the value of our lives is not high in their eyes. When David asked Charlie why he was made, David responded with "Because we could".

In Prometheus, David brings up the difficult question of how Charlie would feel if the Engineers responded the same way when asked the same question. 

If we're sticking with the idea that the Engineers truly did want to "destroy us", then it's possible that the whole point of our existence was to create beneficial hosts to create xenomorphs. Maybe they wanted a species that was close enough to produce the intended result, but with minor changes so that, 1- it couldn't be considered cruelty to their own species, and 2- to adjust their own genetic makeup so that humans, while being weaker and more controllable,  would produce a greater version of the xenomorph.

However, to avoid (what seems to have been) an outbreak of the xeno "virus", like on LV-223, it makes sense that they would create humanity as a docile, controllable pre-stage for the final product. Just like how people must feed and care for the mice they feed to their snake, Engineers put us on a safe world away from them where we could grow and prosper as a calm, delicate species. A species perfectly suited to be the host for the ultimate killing machine. 

(I hope my rant here made sense. I just re-watched the movie last night and I thought of this theory and wanted to share)
 

K-Theory

May-17-2017 2:02 PM

The Engineer sacrificed in the beginning of Prometheus is described by Scott as being a "perfect" being of their race, biologically speaking at least. It therefore seems possible that he is hinting towards the Engineers being bioengineered by the immortal (or very long living natural Elders). Just as David rebelled against his creators in Covenant, the Engineers rebelling against the Elders is a possibility. 

BigDave

May-18-2017 6:46 PM

The whole thing is so wide open, its a problem i had when working on a Prometheus 2 draft... there are some aspects that you can have multiple theories that kind of step on each others toes and so its hard to narrow it down to a Definitive Theory.

There are flaws everywhere in some of the clues, flaws that make coming up with one theory, contradict another.

A simple example is that if we was created purely to be used as Xenomorph Hosts or to be used for Evolving into Black Goo Horrors, then its a pretty long winded Process that takes hundreds thousands of years (Spaights) or Hundreds of Millions (Lindeloffs) and why interact with us and teach us stuff, and the Star Maps... if we from day one was meant to be just Biological Fodder for the Creation of something else.

The only other way this would make sense if there are Thousands of Worlds at various times they Seed this way, it would be like a Wine Maker who makes Vintage Wines, he will start a batch, and this batch may be ready in 20 years, but then he starts another and another and another each 5 years apart... this way once his first 20 years is over, he will have a steady new batch every 5 years.

But then if they are creating Humanoids across hundreds or thousands of Worlds for just this Purpose... WHY? And to what end is the importance of creating Xenomorph type Organisms.?

The Deleted Elder Scene (which maybe we cant class as Canon) shows this Process was for a great cause and a benevolent act...

Ridley Scott mentioned the Space Jesus as being on the nose, but then his comments seem to be that they actually did not view us in any hostile way Thousands of Years ago, until we had done something and also proved to be a Failed Experiment.

The Reason for the Black Goo to be used, was because of how we turned out and became Rebellious and the risk is always there that we could one day Turn on them and Over throw them... they had a reason to be concerned with us, just as Mankind should had been with creating AI Androids... which alas, its proven the case that they have created something maybe they should not have because we see David has rebelled and became sentient.. if most of the Androids do the same, then we have a Skynet Terminator situation.

A Reason maybe the Engineers are cautious to us, and decided we needed to be destroyed is because maybe they in turn did this to their Creators/Hierarchy... and so its the same reason that Cronus Ate all his Children because he feared they would Rebel and want him Dead just as he did with his Father.

This is the Theme we was being shown... and so those LV-223 Engineers, Ridley called Fallen Angels indeed shows us they have rebelled themselves..

The Reason for the Black Goo, is maybe they Stole the Creation Goo to Create Mankind, maybe they just interfered in our development... but i think ultimately they got caught, got punished and the results of this Punishment created a Xenomorph related Ancestor

That these Engineers then held in high regard, they maybe saw this as a way they could give Birth to Life, that there Race was either never allowed but their Creators could. (If Engineers are clones and thus Biological Davids) Or if they had lost the ability to Procreate..

But now they have gained this in some way, and they worship this creation thats created from them and they chose to experiment on it and Perfect it and when they did they created the Mural, and they then decided to use its DNA in those Urns to Evolve Mankind.

into their New Perfect Creation.

The Engineers to a degree was doing what David is doing and maybe for similar reasons.

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

markd4lyph

May-27-2017 9:36 PM

After thinking about Promethius I couldn't get away from the idea of two competing factions in the race of engineers. One was the creators and the other was the destroyers. The creators had a ship that was whole and round. The destroyers ship looked like a sickle cell blood cell. That to me spoke of genetic perfection vs genetic impurity and a kind of ideologically driven ethnic cleansing of a deficient bloodline called mankind. Notice Davids Arian look, yet ironically given the name of the great jewish hero. Could it be that the creators seeded life through out the universe but the destroyers found that to be somehow ethically or religiously blasphemous and unnatural? They sought to reverse the plaugue of humanity by loosing a vermin of ghastly efficiency on each world. Earth being the unlucky loser upon the discovery of the  base planet in Promethius. I would postulate the black goo is actually some form of programmed nanobot as opposed to actual genetic material. It uses the simple compounds to create what it is programmed to create. The creator sacrifice at the beginning seems to be taking upon himself a great honor as one perhaps chosen for his genetic perfection. The act is very ceremonious. The black goo he drinks did not create an alien but simply disassembled his body into the pollen of all life on earth so to speak, thus lending to the nanobot idea. The canisters seem to be filled with nano goo that uses any material it can to create an egglayer. The egg hatches and a xenomorph is born and feeds until mature. It then hunts and destoys humans as it was engineered to do. So at its heart its a story not unlike the history of man. There are creators and there are destroyers. The destroyers may be elegant and advanced but they are none the less diabolical and twisted. Its a Holocaust space opera. 

Sign in to add a reply to this topic!

ALIEN: COVENANT will act as a sequel to 2012's PROMETHEUS as well as a prequel to 1979's ALIEN. Alien fans looking to know more about ALIEN: COVENANT as well as when its first trailer is set to debut, should check back often. Alien-Covenant.com is an information resource for film enthusiasts looking to learn more about the upcoming blockbuster Alien: Covenant. Providing the latest official and accurate information on Alien: Covenant, this website contains links to every set video, viral video, commercial, trailer, poster, movie still and screenshot available. This site is an extension of the Alien & Predator Fandom on Scified - a central hub for fans of Alien and Prometheus looking to stay up-to-date on the latest news. Images used are property of their respective owners. Alien: Covenant and its associated names, logos and images are property of 20th Century Fox and are in no way owned by Scified and its related entities. This is a fan-created website for the purpose of informing and exciting fans for Alien: Covenant's release. If you have any questions about this site, its content or the Scified Network in general, feel free to contact Scified directly.

Your account has not yet been verified. Please check your email for the verification link to begin posting.

Please review our rules before sharing content

Use Your E-Mail:


Password:


Stay Logged In

Content Policies & Legal Disclaimers