From the deleted scene in alien, I've always felt they were transformed victims of a xeno. They don't hunt only for sustenance, killing is part of their reproduction cycle.
This is the interesting and maybe the BIG QUESTION...
Alien: Showed us that they were a Egg Cargo on board the Derelict, we had not real connection to how they came to be but that they was connected with the Dead Pilot Space Jockey.
But the Deleted Scene offered a explanation how the Organism could Procreate and create from a Host a Egg Stage Organism... The Egg Morph.... this idea was borrowed as with a lot of Alien from the Star Beast Story that Alien was based on.
Possibility the Life Form Procreates and dies out and leaves behind the Egg Morphs, that maybe then are acquired as Cargo by the Space Jockey Race.
Aliens: Showed us that a Queen Xenomorph could lay the Eggs, and if we ignored the Alien DC then the Status Quo for the other movies in the Franchise (Alien 3 and Alien R) showed us that the Eggs required a Queen.
Possibility the Life Form Procreates and dies out and leaves behind the Laid Eggs, that maybe then are acquired as Cargo by the Space Jockey Race.
But by the time Aliens and the next two movies come along we are drawn the picture that the Xeno is used as a Bio-Weapon, at very least it has the potential to be used as such.
Prometheus: This movie comes along and introduces us to a Black Goo that is very connected to the Xenomorph as well as a Mural and Fresco's that tease at a variety of Xeno related Organisms and experiments that are linked to the Black Goo and Xenomorph its just trying to fit into where the Black Goo and Xeno fit in with this chain of Evolution.
But the movie concretes the theory the Space Jockey race created and used the Xenomorph as a Bio-Weapon.
Star Beast: Was the story that evolved into Alien, the differences apart from appearance was that the equivalent of the Xenomorph (Star Beast) was the starting stages of a Alien Race who needed Hosts and Sacrfices to Procreate, there life Cycle started as Spores (Eggs) and progressed the same way as the Xenomorph in Alien Directors Cut which ends with the Organism Mutating a Host to Create a Egg and start the Cycle all over.
But the Star Beast would then develop into a more civilized Organism, who would then collect these Egg Morph stages of the Life Cycle and Host them in a Sacrificial Temple where they would then obtain Sacrificial Organisms to be used as Hosts to Procreate there kind.
R.I.P Sox 01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017
But with Alien Covenant.... we are left open to exploring a different way the Eggs came to be, and with such little information its hard to really be sure how the Eggs came to be.
Alien Covenant is teasing as Prometheus did a bit, that there is a Evolutionary Process from the Black Goo that leads to the Xenomorph and related Organisms down the line.... but its teased that this could happen after the time frame of Prometheus 2094 AD...
However we have to remember all the events of Prometheus and the Cargo David could well be carrying with him to Paradise all stem back to the same Black Goo that had previously caused the Outbreak that killed off nearly all those Engineers.
So i think they are hinting that the Xenomorph Eggs come from a Evolutionary Event related to the Black Goo or what ever Organism was Sacrificed to create the Black Goo.
And this event does not necessarily have to run in Parallel time to Prometheus ==> Alien i.e 2094 - 2122 it could be a event thousands of years ago.
As for HOW?
This is the big question.... And one i have a few theories on but its a evolving process with every new clue that is left for us.
R.I.P Sox 01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017
That is a very interesting question indeed. First it seems that they had the route of the egg morph but they deleted that scene. I am not sure how the egg morph starts first, where it comes from but that is interesting. Perhaps that is something that is a result of the experiments that the Engineers did.
Maybe the Engineers experimented and got the monsters from the goo and some of them laid the eggs which in turn were collected by the Engineers and put on the ship.
Big Dave: You said that it could be that the life form leaves the egg morphs behind and then dies but then the egg morph must come from a monster before the Xeno right?
Perhaps they will explain this somehow in Alien Covenant so hopefully we will be given some answer about this.
Eventually there is an evolutionary path from the goo to the eggs to the Xeno, this makes sense and maybe they will show it in Alien covenant in some way.
I will attempt to cover what each movie shown us as far as Alien and Aliens.
Alien: we had unknown Cargo and we did not know nothing about how it came to be, but all we could make out is that it was some kind of Egg this left Cameron to expand upon this in Aliens.
Alien DC: We had the deleted Scene that showed the Organism could infect a Host with something that would then start to turn them into something similar to the Eggs only they appeared larger... would the Egg Morph Eggs eventually Shrink in size? Who knows as this concept was left out and we had Cameron's Interpretation.
Aliens: Cameron decided to expand upon the Eggs, as being well Eggs and for a Egg it needs to be laid, this is where the Queen came in... we are then left to assume that.
1) The Chest Buster was a Queen and got into the Cargo Hold and Laid Eggs...
2) A Queen Lays the Eggs some place and the Engineers somehow manage to transport them into the Cargo Hold.
Prometheus: This movie provided a link between the Xenomorph and Experiments conducted on LV-223 which include the Black Goo that is connected but how its connected is a question like the Chicken or the Egg.
Alien Covenant: I feel this movie will give us more detailed clues as to how Alien Eggs could arrive, which route they would use at this point is unknown.. and if the route they show is also to be considered how in the same/similar way those Eggs on the Derelict came about... i think we should find out.
I will like to add one more thing......
HR Giger: He had some ideas about the Eggs the Derelict etc that was different to what we have ever been shown... he implied the Derelict Ships could be Grown like Plants, and he went further by suggesting the Derelict Ships would actually Grow the Eggs themselves.
His Alien Mural that was never used seems to imply this.... but this was never used and Gigers ideas seemed to not be what we was ever given..... but the Door is open to explore some of Gigers Imagination and theories in future movies.
R.I.P Sox 01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017
From what I understand, all the facehuggers produce drones, from any one of which can morph to a Queen, if one is not present.
Additionally, I believe the Xeno's "See" by scent, and partially communicate through pheremones, and the various hisses and howls they can produce. (The first Queen encounter in Aliens, when the Queen hisses at the hive guards to back off when Ripley threatens the eggs with her Flamer.)
The Xeno's are a Silicon based lifeform, so I'd imagine when their normal lifespan is reached, they breakdown relatively fast, into that black sand you see everywhere.
In the Big Head room on the Engineer's ship in Prometheus, there was a mosaic that seemed to imply that the Engineers saw the Xeno's as some sort of perfect being, obviously holding them in high regard. (Or at least the "Pro-Destruction" faction seemed to.)
There are a lot of factors that are missing, so I can only guess as to some things, such as if the Engineer's are infected by a Xeno, do they produce Deacons, or was that because Shaw's fetus was infected by Holloway? Do facehuggers all produce Queens, which stay as drones if a Queen is already present, or can there be multiple Queens. It seems a hive would produce faster if there were more than one.
According to the Mural in the Big Head room, it was a Queen Xeno, which means that either the Engineers had access to humans, from which they could experiment on to produce the regular Xeno's, or an Engineer, when infected, can produce a regular Xeno, rather than a Deacon.
So many missing factors, so most of this is just an exercise in logic.
I wonder how they'll maintain the Queen and Egg factor. I bet they'll write it off as being just one other randomization of the Black Goo having infected a native life form. I feel as though the eggs we see will vary depending on the environment with which they're placed.
I actually watched the DC movie of Alien some days ago. It was a huge plus that they kept the egg morphing scene of Brett and Dallas in it. The egg morphing scene didn’t reveal too much but it was interesting. We really don’t know how they would appear later since they didn’t show the whole cycle of the egg morph. It probably makes sense that they got infected with something that started the egg morph I have thought about how it could probably start so that makes sense.
Cameron came up with the idea of a queen that lays the eggs but they could be made more interesting. I have been flipping between supporting the egg morph and the idea of a queen. Right now I think that the idea of egg morphing seems to be more interesting.
Prometheus despite all its faults at least gave us an interesting thing about the black goo. I hope that they will continue to expand on the goo in Alien Covenant.
I agree that we will probably be given some explanation of the eggs in Alien covenant, that is what I have guessed since a while ago. Since the monsters is an important part of Prometheus-Alien I think that they should expand on this something which it seems that they will do. Hopefully they will explain the eggs in a way that is interesting, I wonder if they will use some of the ideas of egg morphing in the movie (something that we obviously don’t know about right now). Maybe they will show us how the eggs got at the Derelict but they don’t need to show us everything about it but that is not to say that it should be as vague as Prometheus since many might find that confusing which isn’t to say that it should be obvious.
As far as the ship laying the eggs I am not a fan of that. It is just too bizarre but I like the idea that the Engineers put the eggs there after they have been able to either experiment to get the eggs or to capture the monster that laid the eggs and collect them.
Chris P: Maybe the eggs can be produced in different ways but with similar results? Either through egg morphing or by a queen. I agree that the environment will play a part in how they are being developed.
Very Bizare and Alien Thoughts Dreams but that was the kind of surreal and Alien thinking of HR Giger and it depends if they are going to make the Xenomorph some Alien Chicken, or like Ant/Bee or something very surreal who knows.
I am not 100% sure where they would take us with the Prometheus ==> Covenant links as the Xeno DNA and Black Goo as the Black Goo and clues in Prometheus really open up a wide ARCH of areas they could take it.
The Mural was so VAGUE its like looking at Clouds and everyone can interpret and see things differently.... i think this was the purpose..
And so when we see the Deacon... we can also make out a kind of Queen Carapace/COWL and so it could hint at that too.
As far as the Queen Egg Layer and Egg Morph, Prometheus gave us clues to how both could perform, because the Hammerpedes could be Egg Layers and also the Black Goo Mutates and Evolves DNA which is what the Egg Morph Scene does too.
The way i look at the Egg Morph and Queen to have them not contradict has been for a long time that a Drone is sent out, and its function is to create a Queen Egg Via Egg Morph and then defend her, and once a Nest is Built Certain Pheromones or Chemicals or other ways of communication occur through out the Hive Structure that then Prime the Eggs to produce Warriors.
If a Face Hugger wanders and infects a Host such a distance away from the Hive it somehow does not detect these signals and so then produces a Drone. And not a Warrior.
R.I.P Sox 01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017
I know this thread is about how the eggs will end up in Alien Covenant, but some people are going in depth about the eggs and the reproductive cycle in general, so I just wanted to weigh in a little and then try to answer the actual question.
Going along with the egg-morph theory... my big question is how the hell does a human body physically morph into an egg with a creature inside? I know they could pretty much get away with any explanation because it's an alien, and normal logic doesn't apply, but that would feel like a cop-out. So does the cocooned human just turn into an egg with a creature inside? Or is there more to it?
I once read something (don't remember where) where Ridley stated that maybe the humans don't necessarily turn into the egg, but instead provides nutrients for the creature inside. But in that case, where does the creature that feeds off the nutrients come from? Does the Xeno first impregnate the host with some kind of smaller embryonic version of the Facehugger and it literally eats the host from the inside while an egg forms on the outside? To me, that seems to make the most sense. Especially regarding the "nutrients" comment. But I don't recall ever seeing anyone talk about the Xeno impregnating a host before egg-morphing it. So I didn't know if it was a common held theory. And I could see some people thinking it's too far fetched... "a Xeno impregnating a human who then turns into an egg with a Facehugger which again impregnates a human?". I personally have nothing against it and like I said, it makes the most sense to me... Anyway, let's assume it's not the case, for all intents and purposes. So how else could it happen?
In Star Beast there were male and female versions of the adult alien but they could reproduce asexually. So if they can reproduce asexually, why are there 2 forms? Perhaps the females lay eggs and the males fertilize them. And in case there are no females around, a male could egg-morph a host, fertilize the egg, and boom; asexual reproduction. (I know this is probably a stretch, but the important part is the fertilization concept)
So maybe this idea was carried over to 'Alien', and the egg-morphs need to be fertilized in order to contain a life form? So in that case, an egg would remain dormant until it is fertilized.
Prometheus threw another wrench into the mix by introducing the black goo. If the Xeno DNA contains any traces of the black goo (which is likely), perhaps this is what physically morphs the humans? This is likely the most convenient explanation.
So then where does the Queen come in? Is it one or the other? (Egg-morph or Queen). Or are both involved in the reproductive cycle? Is there a way to involve both without being too convoluted? Or are we willing to accept a convoluted concept because this franchise is already pretty damn convoluted as it is? If done in a way that makes sense, I will gladly accept a concept that involves both.
Going along with the concept that the Queen and egg-morphs are both involved in the reproductive cycle, where exactly does each one fit in?
Let's say the Queen is the "main" source of reproduction. In that case, where do the egg-morphs fit in? I have some theories on that...
I personally like the egg-morph concept better than the Queen. It's much much creepier and horrific. But you have to admit, it's just not very efficient when you think about it. Imagine trying to create a whole colony of aliens with just the egg-morph. Eventually you would run out of hosts.
So to me it seems that the Queen is in fact the main source of reproduction. The Xenos are supposed to be the perfect organism, capable of surviving and reproducing at all costs, right? So what happens when there is no Queen around? This is where the egg-morph comes in. A lone Xeno just has to find a viable candidate and morph it.
But what comes out of an egg-morph egg? Is it just a regular Xeno? If it is, that still presents the problem of eventually running out of hosts. So there has to be some way to create a Queen. So how is this done?
In a deleted scene from 'Alien 3' there was a Royal Facehugger, which impregnates a host with a Queen Chestburster. It came about from using Royal Jelly on Xenos or Xeno eggs in some manner. The Royal Jelly comes from a Queen or Queen Mother... this doesn't really make sense to me because if there is no Queen around, how does one get Royal Jelly to begin with? This makes me think that the whole Royal Jelly/Facehugger is not involved. (I know this is getting into the later BS Alien stuff. I don't really care for too much of that stuff. I prefer Ridley and Cameron's vision. But I just wanted to throw it out there).
So with that aside, how could a Queen be created? A lot of people say a Xeno can simply transform into a Queen after some time. (Aka, molting). I don't buy this at all. So let's put it aside as well.
Maybe a Chestburster can take on characteristics of a certain host (possibly a species other than human or a mutated human) and a Queen is the result. But that still proposes the problem of eventually not having the right type of host around when they need to create a new Queen.
In order for the egg-morph and Queen concept to work together, I believe that a lone Xeno would need to have the ability to create a Queen by itself.
So this leads me to believe that a Queen can come from an egg-morph. How? Maybe they have to somehow physically change the egg. Maybe somehow they use the black goo on the egg or the creature inside. Or my personal favorite... When there is no Queen around, the Xeno gives off pheromones that communicate to the egg, letting it know it needs to reproduce. This in turn makes the regular creature inside into a Queen creature.
My one last theory is maybe all egg-morph eggs automatically have Queens inside them. Aka egg-morphs=Xeno Queen and Xeno Queen eggs=regular Xenos.
But what if they leave the egg-morphs out altogether? Aside from me being bummed out, it would still propose the problem of how a lone Xeno could create a Queen. My only thought on that is basically everything that applies to creating a Queen from an egg-morph also applies, but instead of an egg-morph egg, it would be another adult Xeno. Basically a Xeno experimenting on another Xeno by somehow physically changing it, and the result is a Queen.
I could be totally wrong about everything. A lone Xeno might not be able to create a Queen by himself at all and if he runs out of hosts he's just S.O.L. In that case, maybe the first Queen was an anomaly that came from a naturally evolving Xeno or a chain reaction of experiments where the Xeno kept absorbing traits from different types of hosts. And the result was a Queen, and then when they needed a new Queen they just replicated whatever "recipe" led to that outcome.
Keep in mind that the egg-morph and Queen concepts were different visions from different people that weren't necessarily supposed to work together. That being said, I believe Ridley did/does like the Queen concept (don't remember where I read that). Whether he intends to bring these concepts together, I don't know. A lot of people like the Queen. A lot of people like the Queen+egg-morph. Some people do like the egg-morph by itself, but I'd say there's fewer of them.
In the end it's really just about Ridley's(/writer's/producer's) vision and if he wants to use just 1, or both. And to me it seems it would depend on whether the concept made enough sense or not. I doubt Ridley wants to put out a half assed concept.
So if he can't think of a clever way to implement both, I think he would just use 1. But that could potentially piss people off that don't like 1 of the concepts. Not that it matters, because I think he will want to do what's best for the franchise, but it's still something to think about.
If he does use just 1, which 1? Although I like the Queen, I have always been more of an egg-morph fan. It's just so much more horrifying and it goes along with the Xenos being a perfect weapon because they literally NEED to murder to reproduce. That is just badass and terrifying. So if I had to pick 1 I would pick egg-morph all day.
As for OP's original question, to keep it simple, I think the eggs we will see in Covenant will have come from a pre existing Queen, an egg-morph, or from a distant relative species of the Xeno.
Sorry for the novel, this just put me in thinking mode :)
Indeed the Egg Morph can be very Alien, we cant compare Earth Biology with Alien, it can be very Alien where anything we try to compare to goes out the window.. but Ridley had hinted at Insectoid connections, Bacteria/Parasite and Crustations. So maybe some Biology can apply?
But yes the Egg Morph of a Human to Egg is very plausible...
All we need to do is look at how a Maggot, or Mosquito larvae, even Caterpillars all Metamorphosis into Fly, Mosquito and Butterfly etc.
They each have a stage thats similar where this process happens the PUPA, why we even see it in Gremlins.
We know the Black Goo effects and re-writes DNA, and so the Egg Morph Process could re-write a Human DNA to become a Egg.
The only problem i had with the Egg Morph was the size... they was much larger than the Eggs....
*so do they shrink?
*or produce a Larger Hybrid Organism?
It was never explored as the scene was removed and along came Camerons Egg Laying Queen... which makes sense but takes away the very Alien Nature of the Egg Morph.
Unless as my theory i always had applies... where a Egg Morph creates a Queen Egg
R.I.P Sox 01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017
"But in that case, where does the creature that feeds off the nutrients come from?"
Good Questions... unless the Creature is Actually the Outer Cocoon?
"Does the Xeno first impregnate the host with some kind of smaller embryonic version of the Facehugger and it literally eats the host from the inside while an egg forms on the outside? "
Nice idea, but it looks like something was growing around and not from inside Brett and Dallas.
As far as the Xeno Impregnating a Host, this would rule out the need for Egg Morph or Queen so i dont think they would follow this for the Xeno... but its something that a Xeno related or Black Goo created Organism could do... this method was explored in AVPR with the Pred-Alien
"In Star Beast there were male and female versions of the adult alien but they could reproduce asexually."
Have to go back and read it, as i am not sure there was Male/Female but i could be wrong, as i thought there was just Adults, but refered to as in Parent so who knows... its been a while since i read it though.
Funny enough Most Worms are asexual... well they are both Male/Female but cant produce Eggs on there own i.e Parthenogenesis, there needs to be Two Worms and they mate and both become Pregnant....
Maybe the Hammerpedes are the same, this would explain why we saw a Pair Together and also why one went down Milburns Mouth, and to be fair i think the Hammerpedes could have been explored more and even made sense to use as the basis for how the Xeno Evolved.
R.I.P Sox 01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017
I was replying to things bit by bit, and put my reply before reading all of yours... which you basically had same idea as my reply LOL
Indeed i think its the most logical step....
As far as Alien 3 and Royal Jelly, this is just a take on how Ants and Bees work in that by changing the feeding habits to some Ant/Bee larva that determines what they grow into and so when there is no Queen the workers can make one from treating a Larva different.... Scientists ages ago thought this was some Royal Jelly... but its proved to not be the case.
And so this is how Alien 3 alternative versions tried to explain, again fitting more with the Bee/Ant Cameron concepts.
But the Royal Jelly route could be replaced by the Egg Morph.
Makes sense.... look at Alien for one moment what was the Agenda?
Go around killing, then eventually die? makes for a Perfect Weapon, but not the Perfect Organism..... thats without looking at the deleted Egg Morph or the Queen.
So if we take the Queen, then in Alien what happens to the Xeno? Going by Alien 3 a Egg can be changed to a Queen Egg by Royal Jelly or similar process to how Ants/Bees can create a Queen when there is not one.
But with No Eggs on the Nostromo how can the Xeno Procreate?
If we look at the Egg Morph then how would this work?
We have Dallas and Brett and so we end up with TWO EGGS, which then maybe end up being picked up by a rescue mission which gives us ONE Xeno, and TWO EGGS which needs Two Hosts for the Face Hugers, thats a big ask which would assume the Xeno can overcome who ever comes across the Nostromo and capture Two Hosts with enough time to Gestate more Xenos.
What if we have Brett EGG and Dallas Cocooned Host (like in Aliens) Then when the Nostromo is intercepted we would have TWO Xenomorphs....
BUT THE BIG QUESTION IS....
Why Kill Lambert and Parker? could they have not been used to make 4 X Eggs Total (5 if Ripley never survived) or 2 X Xenomorphs..
The only logical way i can think, would be that the Brett Egg Morph = Queen Face Huger.. hence Larger Size...
Then the Nostromo would have 1X Xenomorph and 1 X Queen who could then Lay Egg after Egg after Egg...
This to me would be a more perfect form or Procreation.
R.I.P Sox 01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017
I will however follow up on your other suggestion which again is something i mentioned before.... that is what if Egg Morph = A Organism that is between Chest Buster and Adult Stage...
i.e we dont get Face Hugger, that way No Face Huger means no need for Hosts... so a Egg Morph produces a Organism that can grow with no Host.
This to me does seem the more Perfect Procreation Method... maybe it could combine with the Queen concept, in that a Egg Morph Produced a Baby Queen so no Royal Face Hugger, this ULTIMATELY would make the Xeno more Perfect
As the Need for Hosts is a Major Drawback.
It will be interesting if any similar ideas are explored in future Alien Movies.
R.I.P Sox 01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017
Yeah I think you're right as to the possibility of a human being able to morph into an egg. Especially comparing it to real life biology.
As far as the size of an egg-morph goes, if you go along with the nutrients thing, I could definitely see the eggs shrinking to the size of a regular egg. If the body is being broken down, then it wouldn't need a bigger egg. But... the bigger egg could go along with the "all egg-morph eggs are Queens". That could explain the size. And the nutrients could be the extra nourishment needed to create a Queen. Basically like the Royal Jelly.
"Unless the creature is the outer cocoon"
yeah I could see this. The Queen eggs are creatures themselves, so I believe an egg-morph could be the same.
When I was talking about a Xeno impregnating a host, I meant he puts something inside the human before they completely morph. Then it feeds off the body inside for nutrients inside the egg to become a Facehugger or Royal Facehugger. They would still need a Queen for mass production. But if we accept that the egg is the creature then none of that would be necessary.
I should clarify about Star Beast. There were males and females in the concept. I don't remember if they made it into the story.
Good point about the worms and Hammerpede. So you think the Xeno's asexual nature evolved from the Hammerpede? That would be cool. I also agree that they could/should explore that more. Cause I loved the Deacon as well.
Yeah I'd like if the Royal Jelly was replace by egg-morph. I never liked the Jelly or most of the other stuff. And basically like you said, the egg-morph is more efficient at times when there aren't eggs around.
And I totally agree about Brett being a Queen egg-morph and Dallas being the host. It makes the most sense. It would give the Xeno's a way to thrive and build many hives with minimal resources and effort.
I never thought about an egg-morph being something between Chestburster and adult. It's interesting and it would definitely make them more perfect.
Waiting on this movie is killing me :)
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