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Alien: Covenant

Alien: Covenant - Prometheus sequel by Ridley Scott

Alien: Covenant

COUNTDOWN TO COVENANT MISSION LAUNCH:

Cave Paintings: What Can We Infer?

Cave Paintings:  What Can We Infer?

Deep Space

Member

24

Posted Aug-15-2016 9:10 AM

  Well, we can safely assume that they weren't an 'invitation'!  But we can be pretty certain that Engineers had visited Earth, and different civilisations, over a long period of time.  Also, that humans had interacted with them to some degree (hence the paintings) and were aware of the LV223 system.

So, why were the Engineers coming to Earth?

  Well, it would seem like they had a hand in our creation and possibly helped us evolve and develop technology.  This idea could have many possibilities (as have been theorised and discussed in very engaging and thought provoking ways by posters here!) but I am leaning towards them using us a part of their experiments - mostly, as a way to develop/perfect the Zeno.  For revenge?  For use as a weapon?  Curiosity (because they could)?  As for reasons 'Why the Zeno?' I am still very much unsure and can't wait to see how much light AC will shed on this . . . a year is soooo long ;)

And why did they leave a star 'map'?

  Is it a map?  Hmm, not sure, but it does seem as though they were indicating, quite specifically, where a (at least one?) 'laboratory' they used in connection with the Zeno/black goo was/is.  I do wonder if they were taking humans back to LV223 to use in their experiments;  perhaps they were idolised by earlier humans and the star maps were a a way for 'us' to direct our prayers and offerings etc.  i.e. "up the in the sky somewhere is where the chosen ones have gone . . ."

 I'm in no way saying this is accurate but does seem like it could fit.  It's also worth noting that this detail could well have no further connection to the sequels but, to me, it feels like it is telling us something.  What that is is unclear but there are enough clues in Prometheus to suggest that we were clearly a significant part of Engineer culture/experiments.

  I suppose the next question is why they would want to eradicate us but if the Zeno idea is on point than that clears that one up :) 

I can't help checking for new news items/leaks etc and being disappointed to find none!  This site is the only thing keeping me going, lol!

What do others think about the paintings?  Do you think they have some plot significance or are just an idea that will not feature further - just used to get the ball rolling in Prom?

(apologies if a similar topic has been posted - I did have a look but couldn't quite find a thread that dealt with these questions directly)

Replies

Leto

Member

0

Posted Aug-15-2016 9:44 AM

I think, it was an invitation. In past. When Engineers was biological (how the sacrifice Engineer), before biomechanization (how the last Engineer). In past rock-painting was actually an invitation. After unknown to us incident (not disaster on LV-223 2000 years ago), when Engineers was beomehanization, their plans too was changed And we have two variants:

1. Engineers want to "destroy" us. On truly - make us biomechanoids.

2. Engineers want to recreate xenomorphs and our planet is perfectly suited for this. Rock-painting is already simply outdated.

 

P.S. Sry for bad English.

Deep Space

Member

24

Posted Aug-15-2016 9:57 AM

No need to apologise, thanks for the reply! 

I think that's an interesting idea - that perhaps we were initially encouraged to develop and evolve to the stars; to be like our creators.  Then something happened to Engineers (possibly events we have seen glimpses of in AC setting pics) which led to a change and hence our destruction.

That could work and would also explain the paintings. 

Diz

Member

10

Posted Aug-15-2016 10:10 AM

EH, yeah, so much for the friggin' invitation idea.  Why would those fockers direct us to a bio-weapons station where they were planning our death?  You know looking at it now it makes no sense.  Unless that's the equivalent of bow down and worship us, or get the "or else".  Maybe at the time they couldn't picture (huh) us ever getting our shit together and becoming a space-faring race.  So why not show the talking monkeys where the bio-lab was.  Perhaps that was our origin?  Before it became contaminated and produced the black goo, eggs, and zenos. 

Yeah a year is long time to wait for answers.  But at least Ridley is attempting to right the franchise so another year will have to do. 

 

 

Thoughts_Dreams

Member

3

Posted Aug-15-2016 10:21 AM

Diz: I also have problem with the idea that it is invitation. Whenever I hear Shaw say that I think that she is an idiot. The cave painting could have meant a lot of things but I think that they need additional material before they can draw a conclusion about what it means. At least in the start of the movie Shaw seems to be too irrational, this is an example of it and to me that makes her very unlikeable.

Diz

Member

10

Posted Aug-15-2016 10:51 AM

Yeah, I mean that was a stretch to say the least.  When Shaw says: "...we were so wrong...", I was like, no shit, that is about the most epic fail, ever.

And yeah, I gotta give her props for jocking up and heading to the engineer's home planet in search of answers.  But trusting the tin man should be a No-Go, as well as just waltzing up to the engineers again- unarmed.  If you want answers, put a det cord necklace around David's neck, and send him out with a flame unit filled with black goo.  That should get their attention.

Maybe it's just me but if we came all this way and got this kind of response, I'd be looking for a little pay-back.  They obviously planned on destroying us.  Janek, Chance, and Revel put a stop to that shit.  So bump the reason why, return that shit, croissant express, and give them what they had planned for us. 

And then draw on their walls, the names of Janek, Chance, and Revel.  And when I point at them, it's with the middle finger for an Adios Mike Foxtrot. 

 

MonsterZero

Member

0

Posted Aug-15-2016 11:35 AM

Who painted the markings? Did the Engineers pose for it? I assume the visitors(Engineers, others) showed their location in the dirt(or pulled out a fancy star map TV...or a big hologram view?)..then the cave painters transferred what they saw.

Was it the Engineers in the paintings? Or some other alien visitors who are WARNING humans of this other nasty race?

The Engineers must have know they were talking to dirt farmers..

"After you pull up that carrot and wipe your nose...get in your starship and follow us.."

Did they have that much confidence in humanity...that they would develop spaceflight and MIGHT find a cave painting or two?

I think it's a message: "We come from the stars...and we are just checking our experiment ....And, not that it matters(you are dirt farmers)..., this is where we are from..."

If I was going to leave a invite to primitave...I'd have them build a large pyramid system like Giza....something big...not a some cave paintings that may or may not be found.

 

How would you leave a coordinates to Earth, if you encountered a backwoods alien race on another world and wanted them to visit when they advanced to space flight?

 

Deep Space

Member

24

Posted Aug-15-2016 11:53 AM

'Did the Engineers pose for it?'

That's just made me picture an Engineer in board shorts, sunglasses and a vest posing next to his fancy holo-star map, in front of some bewildered looking ape men, lol :) 

To me, the 'maps' very existence suggests that there were interactions between them and us.  To what extent we were aware of their plans/practices on LV223 is unknown.  Perhaps, like I think BD has alluded to, many different ages of humans, i.e. different 'molds' of man, if you like, have been created and had ties with the Engineers in the past.

'Was it the Engineers in the paintings? Or some other alien visitors who are WARNING humans of this other nasty race?'

Could be.  Could also be another type of Engineer, different to what we see in Prom.  My money though is on them being one and the same - but their 'agenda' may well have changed over time.

Michelle Johnston

Member

0

Posted Aug-15-2016 12:30 PM

Thanks for raising the cave paintings because I have not considered them for some time and my thoughts have evolved a great deal.

The Engineers clearly returned to visit mankind and visited a number of cultures openly. This was part of their original plan and to delight in the progress of mankind since Earth amongst other planets had begun to evolve. The Isle of Skye visitation occurred during one of the retreats in the Ice about 35,000 years ago.

We do not know precisely when the Engineers rebelled, when Paradise Lost occurred, but given the catastrophic events on LV223 and Paradise and the widespread nature of the retribution and the break out of the mutagen it was probably swift and ended just 2,000 a years ago so the visitation to the Isle of Skye may pre date their fall. However if Big Dave's source is on the money then the Engineers may have returned with non benign intentions leading up to their destruction.

My belief is the creation of the lifecycle, which lead to the Deacon immortalised in the mural, requires procreative human kind and they would have been included in such experiments. Once perfected the fallen angels decided to pursue "in order to create first you must destroy" mercifully fate intervened and the very thing that they had created destroyed them.

So Elizabeth's notion it was an invitation once we had achieved the capacity for space travel makes sense. The original Engineers were very open as to where they had come from and might expect visitations.

The original gardeners were billions of years old and had seen other species evolve and travel and have sacrificed to create and instructed and sped up our development they would be delighted.

Sir Peter who was much more important to the story than the film allowed time for was the delusional crazed old man expecting gods who would grant him immortality. He would have been wrong both pre and post Paradise Lost. There is an ordained way this mythos works we know the Engineers have rebelled and suffered a disaster, Sir Peter's attempt to break the bonds of mortality represented a different but equally important fall. He views himself ironically to be the same as the Engineer he speaks to through David in the alternative cut. The Engineer is a wicked fallen creature bent on unspeakable actions of death and cruelty and once again we see his immorality turned back on him humiliated, raped and used as a host for one of the abominations he and his kind created, but born of mankind, a supreme irony. Just as the Engineer rips of Davids head and that action leads to Sir Peter's death.

The unscheduled creation responsible for the creators death. How this plays out in Covenant will be absolutely fascinating.            

At the core of my belief about what is unfolding is one simple thought.

For the Engineers to fall there has to be relativism; to what, the hierarchy that created them for the purpose of gardening, and I "chose to believe" those opening shots of the re ordering of DNA molecules represent the work of a positive creative endeavour into which evil has come. 

 

MonsterZero

Member

0

Posted Aug-15-2016 12:51 PM

I could see the Engineers(or whoever) showing up on Earth every 10 million years...

 

155 million years ago....Cool! life! large land animals! fills zoo on Gorblat 7.

145 million ...same old land creatures..

135 million g..same old crap .. 

125 million years ago...same creatures..

115 million didn't bother showing up

..

 

65 million years ago....What same old critters!?! BORING!

Hauls in a large asteroid and drops it on Earth.

6 trips and 60 million years later...Still nothing!

Drops some goo on Earth.

Something Real

Member

94

Posted Aug-15-2016 12:56 PM

DEEP SPACE - You raise a very interesting question! I have always assumed that the cave at was, in fact, a form of invitation - but not in the normal sense. In my opinion, Mankind was intended to locate LV223 so that his evolution could proceed. After many long years of thought, I have come to the tentative hypothesis that the Engineers were intent on enhancing the human race with the "black goo"; it is a hyper-advanced, biological catalyst designed to speed up natural evolution. However, the Engineers are the only ones with the working knowledge necessary to utilize it properly; in the hands of bumbling humans and androids, it becomes something nightmarish. Who knows? Perhaps when it is exposed to various sonic stimuli (such as that produced by the flute-like instruments carried by the Engineers), the substance takes on a much more benign and beneficial nature? It is extremely fun to speculate! However, I feel very strongly that the Engineers were not interested in eradicating the human species. I draw part of this inference from the look of shock and uncertainty that the lone Engineer gives Shaw as she is shouting at him. He looks bewildered and hurt - as if his purpose has come under unwarranted derision. Of course, I could be completely and utterly off the map with my theory! :)

Something Real

Member

94

Posted Aug-15-2016 12:58 PM

MONSTERZERO - Hahaha! That scenario takes the "gardening" aspect to towering new heights! :)

MonsterZero

Member

0

Posted Aug-15-2016 1:10 PM

@Something Real

Thanks!

Not sure I would invite any alien species:

"Come to our homeworld! Bring your weapons! Bring your diseases ! and if you like our world...Invade it! (or at the very least, start a good war)"

Something Real

Member

94

Posted Aug-15-2016 1:24 PM

MONSTERZERO - Hahaha! That would certainly be an attention-grabbing invitation! :)

BigDave

Moderator

261

Posted Aug-15-2016 2:59 PM

Well this is a subject that has many many options and posible outcomes and explanations and its another one of those things that is a bit of a mess... we have to ask when Ridley, Fox and Lindeloff and Spaights sat down to work on the Engineers plot and the clues on Earth that lead to Zeta 2 system.

We have to ask did they know what the reason and agenda was... but even so, many things change as they go along.... The Full Engineer Scenes including ones we have not seen on any extras or bonus material... could have sent us down one Path... but they changed their minds.. (Fox/Ridley)  and they cut certain scenes because they had a change of mind as far as the Agenda of it all...

Indeed the Elders Scene seemed a benevolent Act... the Last Engineer in deleted scenes, seemed to be intrigued with Mankind well especially Shaw and how far Mankind had come since they (Engineers) Abandoned us.  The Deleted Scenes showed that...

The shot of the Engineer and a book in his hands, which could be the Bible was never shown we only have one still shot of this scene.

The Full Elder and Sacrificial Scene.. was never ever shown in full... The Sacrificial Engineer had dialog with the Elder...  This scene had a purpose!

Wishing those around the World who finally get to see AC this week a very good weekend

BigDave

Moderator

261

Posted Aug-15-2016 3:01 PM

so was it a invitation?  it may have been... the place may have been a Paradise for us for when we are ready but after some War/Rebellion and maybe after they felt Mankind was Flawed and we had Rebelled against them... this once intended Paradise was changed into a Death Trap? 

It could be... this can be very complex thread to try and answer... i shall next attempt to answer it from the Original Purpose!

Wishing those around the World who finally get to see AC this week a very good weekend

BigDave

Moderator

261

Posted Aug-15-2016 3:27 PM

The Premise of the movie was that we had these Humanoid Bald Giants... who seemed to have a very ritual maybe religious agenda... which Sacrifice plays a important role.

We see the Elders, they look Old, frail compared to the younger Engineers.. these are just as with Native Indians or Primitive South American Tribes...   the Old, Wise Elders of the Tribe.

They for some reason, choose Younger Engineers to Sacrifice for some gain to their entire Culture or Agenda for the Greater Good.

A Benevolent Race, and Act.. but maybe only as Benevolent to their own Agenda.. (would you consider our acts against Livestock in Slaughter houses as Malevolent? not to our needs.. but as far as those Animals its not a Benevolent Practice..

Its Survival

The Elders seem to choose selected Sacrificial Engineers, who appear to be in their Prime.. the best Psychical Attributes of their kind... it would be like when we pick a Miss World... or Mr Universe etc.

This chosen Engineer is selected with a Sacrificial Task to Seed his DNA so that it becomes either the starting building blocks of life (intention) or to allow his DNA to evolve basic Life to Complex that carries his traits (what we actually got).

This Sacrifice has a purpose, a great important purpose for the greater good of their Race...  As the Elder said

"Let your body become the dirt. Your blood become the waters, and may your soul become their way back to us".

This shows their is some need and greater purpose in the Sacrifice....

Ridley explained it and said it was a scene of great importance for the Engineers Race... and it would be like when a Ancient South American Tribe would choose a Sacrificial Host to Sacrifice to their Gods for the greater good of the Tribe... this Sacrifice would be treated as a Prince for a year until the time comes when they are ritually Sacrificed into a Volcano.. to please the Gods.. so that the next year would return a greater Harvest etc... for the greater good and the Sacrificial Host is often proud of the task they have been given.

Ridley also said this is not the only way the Engineers can procreate or create life... its just the way they CHOOSE to do so...

So we have this Benevolent Act for the greater good...

Ridley has also commented on the Engineers, and Mankind and he said these Engineers had came back to us over and over every so many thousands of years or hundreds.... to Evolve Mankind not only Genetically, but also as far as Technologically...

They are shown to thus be responsible for teaching us how to build things, and how to maybe grow crops.. they thought Ancient Man Knowledge... and when they came back they further evolved our Knowledge.

The Interactions with Mankind could have led to the various Star Maps in many cultures separated by vast distances in locations and time.. many who had no contact with each other but they all shared the same Pictographs depicting Giant beings pointing to the stars being worshiped by Mankind.

Then there was a time when they stopped coming, when they had forsaken us... something had happened that caused them to not come back..

This has been explained in a few ways, that differ a little... we are told that at some point Mankind had started to behave in ways that was against the intentions they had for us.. we started to do things that was against the rules, the purpose.. and we maybe stopped worshiping them.

They tried to get us to see our ways, but then they had forsaken us.. even as far as to work on some Biological Experiments to create something to Destroy us with..

But the other clues we had, and comments we have been told by Ridley is that these Engineers could indeed also have at some point suffered a conflict between factions or even their Hierarchy and maybe some reason for this conflict that we played a part in... or just after a War between Factions we was left to the will and Agenda of the lesser Benevolent Faction.

We have not been told which way this happened, and it can be many things...

*It could be after a Faction War... one Faction had then tried to get Mankind to Worship them as Gods... and after a while we started to rebel against them... so they decided to get rid of us too

*or it could be that Mankind had another purpose... but a Faction freed is from bondage, and taught us things we was not meant to know.. and tried to nurture us as the God of the Bible is shown instead of us being create for a Purpose as the Sumerian Annunaki Tale had.

But a War broke out and the other Faction realized what the other had done, as in to take Mankind and teach us stuff, to nurture us and have us Worship them... and so the other Faction or Hierarchy realized this and destroyed those Engineers who tried to nurture us and get us to worship them.

*Or it could be that Mankind was created without the Consent of the Hierarchy and other Engineers and when found out a conflict had occurred and we was to suffer the same fate as those who tried to Evolve us.... or maybe the Faction saw we was created with out consent.. but then tried to find a use for us... and found we would not submit to them or fore fill a purpose they had for us.. and so we was destined to be destroyed.

These are all varied explanations....

 

Wishing those around the World who finally get to see AC this week a very good weekend

BigDave

Moderator

261

Posted Aug-15-2016 3:41 PM

This was what seemed as the intention and the clues....

So was it a Invitation?  We have to ask and look at the above clues...

Why was we created, in a event of great importance to the Engineers, what was this Agenda.. was the aim to create Humans? was there other Generations prior?

In comming back to Mankind, and Evolving us... if we assume the outcome of the Sacrifical Scene was not Advanced life but the kick start of Evolution its a long path to get to Humans... and so on the way its logical and has Ridley hinted that they came back to further Genetically Manipulate certain life on Earth, over and over until Mankind was the Result... was this intentional?

Regardless at some point some Engineers had invested a lot of time and effort to come and visit Ancient Mankind and give us knowledge to evolve ourselves Technologically.

HOW DOES THE STAR MAPS PAY ITS ROLE?

The First was the Cave painting 35'000 years ago.. its  a bit of a coinsidence that other cultures and Ancient Man had similar depictions thousands of years latter.. surely this is not a Fable and Story passed on generation by generation that evolved into the many Ancient Cultures identical Star Maps?

Nope Engineers must have visited each culture...

IS IT A INVITATION?

Most likely not.... it could be a simply case of these Ancient Engineers showing us "we created you, we are your Gods and this is where we came from"

But they did not come from LV-223... the Last Engineer said so.. he also said we was not invited..

So its a case of "this is where YOU was created from"

LV-223 could have been a Greenhouse/Plent Nursery where these Genetic Gardeners would experiment on various Genetic Experiments and when they had achieved the desired results they would then return with their improved creation and seed it on Earth...

LV-223 is a Quarantined Enviroment to create, evolve and test creations and upgrades safely to then seed back to Earth... you would not want to try and experiment on a New Plant, Hybrid Fruit if you was  a Gardener and do so in your Garden...

You would carry out these experiments on some of your Harvest/Fruits in a environment away from the Garden as you dont want to prematurely seed a new creation amount the others in your Garden in case it has a adverse effect on the others...

Once you are pleased with the experiments in your Greenhouse/Nursery then you plant these seeds in your Garden.

This is the theory i had.. the one that seems to fit the bill...

I mean why was LV-223 a place that inside the Temples could support a Atmosphere that Life on Earth could breath in... yet outside was hostile to us... but not the Engineers.

Why the Big Head Statue?

Maybe it was a place they would one day when we evolved enough we could visit... but the Engineer said we was not invited.. or certainly invitation was not on the cards back when those Maps where done...

Wishing those around the World who finally get to see AC this week a very good weekend

BigDave

Moderator

261

Posted Aug-15-2016 3:53 PM

The other thing we could look at would be what if LV-223 was a sinister place...  and a Faction of Engineers decided to Warn us...

Or some other previous Creation below them prior to us...  it could be escaped Humans who would Warn of the Experiments on LV-223.

But i doubt it as the Pictographs seemed to indicate Larger Beings than Humans being worshiped by Humans or seen by us as being above them.... low and behold the Engineers fit this bill.

So it could be a Warning.... but then we are shown that about 2000 years ago the Engineers for some reason had decided to destroy us... or another faction had overthrown those with good intentions and they intended our demise...

And so some of the Good Guys (if you can say that) Warned us...

Problem is 35'000 years ago was the first, and its seems Engineers came back over and over to teach and upgrade for some purpose... we dont know what that could be...

The Question is... our Creation

1) Intended and if so how far up the Hierarchy chain is knowledge of our creation and permission given... for what role was we intended.

2) If it was not intended as in a Faction took it upon themselves to sub-create.. then what point did the others and Hierarchy find out and what immediate action did they take.

Because we have the 35'000 year old Cave Paintings and then we had the experiments on LV-223 to create what ever they was doing there that got out of hand... and all but destroyed them 2000 years ago... if they had always had such Evil Biology and Experiments how did they manage to be able to maintain the safety of LV-223 for thousands of years and then in one maybe short span (weeks, months or years) they lost control of it?

Perhaps those Experiments that led to the destruction of those Engineers on LV-223 where never created back in the days of the 35'000 year old Cave Painting or some of the latter Pictographs.

After such a decision of what ever had happened to lead to LV-223 Experiments related to the Bio-Weapons maybe after this was prevented... some Engineers came back to us to to Warn Us?

where did they go.... did they go back to Paradise...

There is so many ways this can be explained, its very hard and contradictions occur and this is without bringing the Mural and Fresco into it..

Wishing those around the World who finally get to see AC this week a very good weekend

BigDave

Moderator

261

Posted Aug-15-2016 4:02 PM

But alas...

Changes had been made... deleted Scenes, that seem to downplay the Engineers Role... Elders removed because they did not want to show us GOD in the first movie.. and these Gods are not Gods and are not benevolent.... (Engineers are not Gods) The removal of scenes, has downplayed the Engineer as maybe no more what David 8 is to Mankind... a Tool/Servant.

Then we can maybe look at Fire and Stone which Ridley said they had collaborated on with Dark Horse to make sure they are not treading on the toes of Prometheus 2 and its plans.... and so stuff that Fire and Stone showed while maybe not being definate Canon... could show us what could happen all the same (cant be canon as to do so would link Predators into the Franchise)

But the Comics showed other Humanoid Lifeforms with two pairs of Arms... who were also left same kind of Star Maps...

Yes this may not be Canon.... but Ridley had teased that the Sacrificial Scene did not have to be Earth... he teased that these Engineers may have create Humanoid Life in many places in the Galaxy... and so Fire and Stone (Predators one) showed us this... and that maybe the Engineers left Same Star Maps to other creations Worlds too..

The Multiple Temples may have been intended for different Worlds they had created Life on.

it appears they are or was going the route of a more sinister Agenda... which the Source hinted at... which Ridleys comments seemed to back up.

LASTLY....

while Ridley teased the Space Jesus, and Biblical connections he then said they abandoned that as it was a bit on the nose... but seems themes loosely have not been abandoned..

And so PARADISE LOST comes to play... we have to ask how in context does this fit with the Star Maps?

Could LV-223 had been the Garden of Eden prior to the Fall?

 

Wishing those around the World who finally get to see AC this week a very good weekend

BigDave

Moderator

261

Posted Aug-15-2016 4:17 PM

I will add that Ridley had said after Prometheus about how maybe Earth had other Life before us... and mentioned Atlantis...   

Latter he said after talking about Prometheus 2, and David 8 bringing Hell with him... Ridley proposed things like is Earth only place they had created life... and maybe the Engineers have destroyed to create before...

The Source had suggested that the Engineers had a bigger role... their creators too and its beyond Galactic...  Earth is not the only place they had created Life on...

The Biblical Events are to be seen as events that have happened but not maybe to modern man but previous Generations.... maybe not even on Earth...

They said we cant look at the events as literally as in against Mankind, on Earth... starting with how we have Heaven above Earth... Paradise on Earth and the Garden of Eden on Earth and Hell Below Earth...

But Prometheus showed actually Paradise is not on Earth but far away... so i think they could be trying to tease that Hell is not on Earth.... Garden of Eden not on Earth...

And maybe the Biblical Punishments may had taken place on Earth.. or elsewhere... and maybe against previous Generations of Mankind...

We are 4th/5th Generation and we did not evolve from Apes as Charles Darwin's theory of evolution

But from Engineers... well they play some role in that Evolutionary path...

Darwin has Apes as the start and Mankind as the Evolutionary End....

But instead Engineers maybe fit in this Evolution instead of Apes... So its kind of a halfway theory from Charles Darwin Evolution from Apes.... and Creation Stories of in Gods image.

This is what they was trying to allude to...

Then low and behold months latter we get those on set shots of disaster that stuck Humanoids who are Bald

And now it makes a bit of sense..... these beings are they Engineers... what position in the Evolutionary Scale... as we have Darwins Ape to Mankind we have 4 Generations of Evolution Between...

But if Engineers are the source of our Genetic History which role in those 6 stages Ape to Man do Engineers fill... 1st? 2nd? and what stage doe those beings getting punished fit?

If they are a previous Generation of Mankind... maybe these are the ones who left us the Warnings about the Evil Faction of Engineers on LV-223?

Some Ancient Mythos/Cultures have Generations of Man.... where in earlier ones there was no Females.... they came after.. and soon after that is when trouble began... when Rebellion Began..

The Bible... its the same.. Adam was first, Eve next some theorize that the Bible is not in context of Plural... so in reality when we had Adam.. he was Man as in.. many Men... then came Eve Woman as in Many Women... just how God is maybe not God but Gods...

Eve Sinned.... not Adam... but Adam chose to Sin and Eat the Fruit because he could not bare to see Eve suffer the punishment by herself... Adam had grown fond of Eve and he choose to Sacrifice his eternal life... to spend his life with Eve....   So Adam chose Eve over God...

If there was no Eve... maybe there would been no Way Adam would have been tempted to eat from the Fruit... because Adam was Loyal only to God.

Those beings in the Shot from Alien Covenant... they look Engineers,... or related but was there Females? or maybe this is a latter Generation where there was then Females?

If you take the Picture of Evolution from Ape...

We see its starts with a Small Hairy Ape... and each stage the Humanoid grows in height and gets less hairy....

If we are from Engineers or related beings and Engineers are just a Evolutionary stage in between... 

Then as with Ape==>Human we see growth in height and less growth in hair...

What if its from Engineer==> Human and its the reverse... and we go from Taller to Smaller, and More Hairy at each Stage...

This would fit in with maybe what the Source said...

I think the purpose for our creation and how Paradise Lost fits, and those scenes from Alien Covenant is very relevant to the Star Maps.

Cave Paintings etc

 

 

 

 

Wishing those around the World who finally get to see AC this week a very good weekend

MonsterZero

Member

0

Posted Aug-15-2016 6:20 PM

Are the Engineers using the Earth as a Petri dish?

The culture escaped the dish and maybe the Engineer was just returning to contain the spill?

Humans have been bred a warlike race to be subjects to the Engineers. Maybe to help them fight some battles they themselves are hesitant to take on.

Seems more interesting if we have a purpose in their plans.

Michelle Johnston

Member

0

Posted Aug-16-2016 12:42 AM

@BD I know you like to rehearse all the possibilities where as i like to make deductions based not just on what is there but what is not there which is equally powerful. But two points :-

1) Charlie indicates the "Invitation" is not to LV223 but the star maps highlight the system it is  Weyland Corp that make the deduction with their long range analysis that LV223 is a moon capable of supporting life and assumes thats where the Engineers come from. When I say it is an invitation it is not in the sense of being invited to a party but in the more general sense that the Engineers openly express which system they come from and by deduction can expect civilisations capable of Space Travel to visit them. The fact that the Jockey placed a beacon on LV426 was to worn anyone travelling capable of interpreting to stay away. The Engineers would by deduction expect others to gain the capacity for space travel.

2) I have just listened to the dialogue of the deleted scene with the dialogue with the engineer and the dialogue filmed does not include him refuting the Invitation the question from a now knowing Shaw and delusional Weyland are about other matters.

  

Michelle Johnston

Member

0

Posted Aug-16-2016 12:54 AM

@BD

"Let your body become the dirt. Your blood become the waters, and may your soul become their way back to us".

This shows their is some need and greater purpose in the Sacrifice....

This statement by the Elder is huge and suggests that the soul is on a divine journey. Whilst the body and blood (a riff from communion) will act as a catalyser the soul will return to…..

This is such a big philosophical foot print if we assume the scene occurred but was left out merely for dramatic considerations it reinforces the notion of a mythos where the sacrificial act was part of the plan and blessed and that the acolytes soul will return to the intergalactic gardeners who by deduction must themselves have a soul. This kind of deeply immersed thinking may still remain unresolved in Covenant and unless there is mediation David, Elizabeth and the colonists can only speculate as to where the Engineers have "gone".      

BigDave

Moderator

261

Posted Aug-16-2016 8:14 AM

Indeed MJ...

The Engineer Speaks Scene.. is a mish mash...  Fasbender and Whyte had to learn more dialect than we saw... and we dont know what the full conversation was... well i have found not information on it.

After shooting they decided to edit over Whytes Performance and so while Fassbenders is based of Ancient PIE the over dubbed Engineers Words are some what made up.....

Also they then cut it down even more for the theatrical cut...

As far as the INVITATION.... i explain it as this.... its just a way of the Engineers showing what they have achieved...

We know they said they are not from LV-223 and Covenant will further prove this..

So its not a case of the Engineers saying this is where we are from.. come and find out...

Its more them showing them this is where we are from... or this is where we created you from.

They never intended or thought we would actually get their and its so its like if you turn around say your from XXX... like me saying im from the West Midlands England... its not like im then doing so that people on here decide to come and find me...

I think the Engineers are very arrogant..  i think the movie is set up to show and as Ridley confirmed these Engineers taught us many things.. gave us knowledge.. just as Prometheus did...

And so its like them being the ones who evolved us mentally as well as genetically, and taught us many things and that without their Help... Mankind would still be living in Caves.

Without Prometheus and the Fire... Mankind would struggle to keep warm and have limited diet.. it was our first piece of Technology that really helped to advance our Race as far as ability to adapt and survive... and without Prometheus gifting us this... would we be where we are now.?

So when the Engineers abandoned us... they in there arrogance felt without their help we would divert back to primitives or not evolve beyond our Technology and Knowledge that we had thousands of years ago.

I think the Engineers look on his face, and also how he reacted with the Violin Girl in the deleted Scene and the Reading of the Book in a shot of a Scene we have not seen...

They all show how surprised and fascinated the Engineer was at how Mankind had evolved without their help.

Wishing those around the World who finally get to see AC this week a very good weekend

BigDave

Moderator

261

Posted Aug-16-2016 8:19 AM

But then as always there is the Warning possibility and that the invitation is a Warning by other Engineers..... but i am not sure how this fits with the older Original Star Map in the Cave... 35'000 years ago

As Ridley and the movie hinted, that all was well as far as Mankind, and Engineer interactions with us until a point about 2000 years ago..

When something happened... between Engineer Factions and maybe we was a Forbidden Dirty Secret... or we had upset the Engineers...

Again we could go further by what if this was a casual them showing us where we was created from... again without them expecting we would ever be able to get their without there help..

And so those Urns was left as a Trap a Back Up plan should the mission fail.. and Mankind evolve enough to Technologically travel to that system then the Urns would prove our downfall due to our Curiosity?

Thats the wonder of the movie so many things can have any number of interpretations.

Wishing those around the World who finally get to see AC this week a very good weekend

BigDave

Moderator

261

Posted Aug-16-2016 8:22 AM

As far as the Zeta 2 system.... the Weyland Viral Files and Site... indicates via probes or some other survey that the Zeta 2 system has a Planet that has moons that may be able to support life..   they expected to send a mission within the next century.

Once Holloway and Shaws Star Maps they found in many ancient cultures seemed to point to the same system... then Weyland knew it was more than just coincidence and these guys may be onto something.

We can assume further survey was carried out on the way or prior... as Holloways presentation said that there evidence pointed to that one system and that in that system there was ONE Star, that had a Planet System with signs that one of those Moons could support life.... and they arrived at that Moon that morning (before the presentation).

 

Wishing those around the World who finally get to see AC this week a very good weekend

Capt Torgo

Member

0

Posted Aug-16-2016 3:49 PM

Awesome stuff guys! How did the engineer have a placenta organ when the blue boy births through his pressure suit. Just saw the green stone is hollow or has opening on the side facing the giant head.

BigDave

Moderator

261

Posted Aug-17-2016 7:33 AM

LOL Capt Torgo..

I will attempt to do this as quick as i can.. bear with me...

If we assume Urns contain Broken Down Xeno DNA or even if not... but we see that Black Goo has Xeno traits it passes onto those infected..

Then a Infected Holloway has either his Sperm infected or he passes on parasitic Goo through Sex with Shaw..

Either way Shaws womb is infected and one of her Eggs becomes infected with the Xeno DNA...

A Egg is a organism in itself its a separate cell that evolves into a Embryo..

Each of these Organisms grow into different fully form fetus when born... but at stage one Embryo they are all similar..

So we can theorize that a Egg/Stage one Embryo has less DNA to re-write its a base canvas and so takes on more DNA and thats why the Trillobite is more like a Face Hugger..

But as the Goo makes a Hybrid... so Hammpedes are Worm/Xeno Hyrbids...  the Trilobite is a Human/Xeno Hybrid Face Hugger

If you look close it even has hair as its fully grown..

So Human/Xeno Face Hugger infects Engineer instead of normal Face Huger and the result is a Organism thats Part Human/Xeno grown inside a Engineer Host.

This is why it had ..

*A Placenta

*Human Hands and Feet and 5 digits

*Enamel Teeth (not Metallic)

*Why is is born fully formed, like a Mammal and not like a Chest Buster.

Hope that was easy to understand as thats the quick version lol

 

Wishing those around the World who finally get to see AC this week a very good weekend

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About Alien: Covenant

Alien: Covenant Movie

Release Date:

May 19th, 2017

Plot Synopsis:

Ridley Scott returns to the universe he created in ALIEN with ALIEN: COVENANT, the second chapter in a prequel trilogy that began with PROMETHEUS -- and connects directly to Scott’s 1979 seminal work of science fiction. Bound for a remote planet on the far side of the galaxy, the crew of the colony ship Covenant discovers what they think is an uncharted paradise, but is actually a dark, dangerous world -- whose sole inhabitant is the "synthetic" David (Michael Fassbender), survivor of the doomed Prometheus expedition.

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