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Juggernaut 2

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MonsterZero

Mar-21-2015 8:17 AM

 Not sure if this has been discussed?

   At the end of Prometheus, we see the a second Juggernaut leaving LV-223...We assume it's Shaw and David........But who is flying it? David or Elizabeth?  has David been repaired and is he in the space jockey chair? or is that chair only used for firing the canisters? Can you pilot the ship from the navigation chair? If David hasnt been repaired, Has he taught  miss Shaw how to fly it?

Did they keep the cargo of 'death'? or jettison it?

Did they find more sleeping Engineers on the Juggernaut 2?

Did they have any 'problems' leaving LV-223? Did the Deacon find them?

If the Deacon found them, is he hiding for survival on the Shaw/David Juggernaut? aka Alien?

I would like to see someone write a short story, where the deacon found Shaw and David preparing to take off, and where David has to re-awaken the sleeping Engineers to help them battle the mature Deacon!

4 Engineers versus a mature a Deacon on the bridge of a juggernaut!

15 Responses to Juggernaut 2

brego

Mar-21-2015 11:42 PM

I think the derecict left LV223 2000 years before when the Engineers were chased and died, except for the one who put himself into hypa sleep. I think one engineer escaped and docked or crash landed on LV426 where he birthed a Xeno which made it's way down into a subteranian complex, matured and laid the eggs which Kane found.

I think we'll find that some kind of accident or sabotage happened way back, a Xeno was birthed and this was what was chasing the holographic Engineers.

As far as who was flying the ship, David could have talked Shaw through flying it.

BigDave

Mar-23-2015 8:58 AM

The answers to those questions are not told on screen, for them we would have to wait for Prometheus Part 2 but Ridley has already covered them...

Can David Fly the Juggernaught as he was when Shaw found him?  Its doubtful as why would David then ask and need Shaws Help?

Can Shaw fly the Juggernaught without David? Its doubtful as why would David sugest to Shaw their is a way off this place (LV 223) but without Davids help she would not be getting of this rock....

This would seem to show that as David can use their Technology he would have trouble doing so unless he was repaired.... and that without David there wold be no chance Shaw could leave.

Ridley has set this up as a part of the Plot for Part 2 and has a number of times said that Shaw can not trust David, and well she needs to be careful, but without Davids Help Shaw is stuck on LV 223.

David offers her a chance off this place, which at first David was hopping to take her back to Earth, but Shaw has said she wants to go to where the Engineers came from, for Answers.

At some point she would have to bargain with David, and get him to agree to go there because without Shaws Help David is going no where, and yet without Davids then Shaw is going no where.

Ridley has suggested that once Davids Head goes on, Shaw is basically at the whim of Davids plans, we have to assume that David is reconected before they leave LV 223, and we also have to assume that maybe the distance to Paradise, means Shaw has to go into Cryo Sleep, but this may not be 100% what would happen.

What is interesting is once Shaw does go into Cryo Sleep, or even if not how can she be sure David will go to where she wants? There is nothing stopping him going where he wants.

So the movie will set up some interesting Dialog and Tense Scenes.... Ridley had said that Shaw would be cautious and yet she knows without Davids Help she is never going to get her Answers and so David offers her the only help she can get..

Unless she can stay put for 2 years until and if a rescue mission gets to her in time...

Ridley says that David is very persuasive..

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

BigDave

Mar-23-2015 9:04 AM

As far as the Deacon, Ridley had said they are moving away from the Xeno and related Organisms and that the Deacon is not a path they are going...

I dont think they would go the route that the  Deacon gets to the Juggernaught that David and Shaw are on.... maybe it could, but i doubt it as Ridley wants to try something different.

They will get to Paradise or at least another World that the Engineers or their creators are on...  This is because of what Ridley said, he says they will find beings on Paradise but they are not Gods and are not benevolent...

And that David is bringing Hell with him... Engineer Bio-Weapon Cargo Ship.... and ponders what happens if God or Machine is effected by the Goo?

Ridley as of latest comments said they wish to introduce a new Monster, something different to what we seen in Prometheus and the Alien movies.

So i dont think we would see the Deacon or Hammerpedes at all, but they could cover LV 223 in a 3rd movie as its one MAJOR PLOT HOLE for Alien Franchise.. why would Weyland risk over and over to get the Xeno, and chase down Ripley as the last chance to get their hands on it..

When LV 223 has much more related shenanigans and a treasure trove of Engineer Technology and Experiments that the Weyland Androids know how to use.

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

BigDave

Mar-23-2015 9:11 AM

FINALLY LV 426 and Space Jockey

This event happened some thousands of years ago, and Ridley latter confirmed that this event happened within a few hundred years of the event that caused the downfall of the LV 223 Facility.

The date given for that outbreak was about 2000 years ago... so the Derelict event would been between 1800-2200 years ago give or take but definatelty 150  years before or after that said Event.

How, when and why?  Is a Mystery....

But the biggest clue was Ridley said that the Derelict was carrying Cargo to a undisclosed location but it did not get far before the Pilot was infected by the Cargo.

Looking at the location and that comment, its Logical that the Derelict may have been leaving LV 223 but only got as far as LV 426...

The only less likely scenerio is that it was leaving LV 426 or some place near that system on its way to LV 223 and had to set down on LV 426...

Thus the Cargo on the Derelict was either heading from or too LV 223 from some place that is near by in terms of Engineers Ships Ability to Travel. I think Ridley has intended that the event of departure of the Derelict must had been some place within the zeta 2 reticuli system.

 

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

MonsterZero

Mar-23-2015 4:33 PM

Wow!

Thanks BigDave!

Yes, you are correct about Lv-223...unless it was a top, TOP secret mission, The Weyland corp would just send a few ships looking for the Prometheus...find the goodies on Lv-223 and  have some incredible bio weapons before the turn of the century! Xeno's and black goo would be well known by the year Ripley is on the Nostromo(everyone might have a personal XENO for protection).

No, Lv223's tech needs to be wiped or lost.   'Nuke it from orbit' if the need arises.

Very interesting.

BigDave

Mar-24-2015 6:17 AM

This is why i think the Franchise is INCOMPLETE.... as far as the LV 426 and Derelict and i dont mean why it ended up there but also with regards to Weyland...

Prometheus futher went to make this INCOMPLETE as well as adding LV 223..

By INCOMPLETE  i mean a kinda Plot Hole....

I will go to Alien first...... the company had re-routed the Nostramo to investigate the LV 426 signal..... now Ash knew something about the mission Special Order 937

The fact Mother said the ship was to be re-routed with that order, means the Company knew something was on LV 426 and so it was not just a case of check out the Signal....

Prometheus expanded this, because the event occured near by on LV 223 which if comics are kind of Canon, well accurate as far as location then LV 223 and LV 426 are in the same Star System. 

The Prometheus Viral Files, indicate that the company knew before Project Prometheus was launched, of a signal of Alien Origin comming from the Zeta 2 Reticuli system and the company hope to send out a probe and mission to investigate it.

Somewhere between Prometheus events, and Alien their is a Gap in the timeline that somehow at some point the company was able to gather information that not only is there a Signal but there is also a Life Form that would be found on LV 426.

How they knew this and when, is something we dont 100% know... but somehow they would have found out something between Prometheus and Alien.

Then we have LV 223...  any mission they send or have sent to investigate that Signal be that before or after the events of Prometheus and especially if after would surely also come across Shaws SOS and the wreckage of the Prometheus.

LV 223 at the time of Prometheus end, is still a planetoid that has its Temples, with some Juggernaughts left (David said there are many more.. many does not mean one!) and we have Shaws SOS which would be located to the wreckage site of Prometheus.

Never mind some spilled Goo Canisters and a Hammerpedes and Deacon....

We have to ask, why was Nostramo sent to LV 426 and not LV 223, and why has the company had to go to Hadleys Hope, which could seem like a Colony was set up on purpose to be used to optain the Organism....  

Why go to that bother, with LV 223 near by... why in Alien 3 was the Organism that was on the escape pod with Ripley and Hicks etc the only means the company had to get its hands on the Organism?  And certainly after Alien 3, in Alien Resurection we have to ask why clone from Ripleys DNA to get the Specimen...

Why oh why... if LV 223 is in the same state as it was at the end of Prometheus...

So yes LV 223 has to be answered and any mission or event to LV 223 would give the company insight into maybe the potential of a lifeform on LV 426.

 

But would this be explored?  Who knows?

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

BigDave

Mar-24-2015 6:22 AM

A only Logically route and one that i was taking with my draft for Prometheus 2 and 3 would be that the company does send back a mission....

And the end of Part 2 Shaw and David are done with our nasty little Engineers, so they would pose no threat but Shaw realises the true extend of LV 223 and its horrors and she needs to get back to LV 223 to stop the Weyland Company getting its hands on the Black Goo and other Horrors and Tech that these Engineers was upto and logically LV 223 has to be laid to waste by the end of the Franchise....

However...... the company are aware of the LV 426 signal, and Shaw is not, David is aware as he can understand Engineer, that the Signal is a warning about a failed mission and its Cargo is Compremised..  What i am saying is David would know and maybe other people at Weyland, that the LV 426 signal is a warning and is connected to the Engineers.

And so while the Engineers Tech may seem lost... there is still a reminiscent of their experiments on LV 426..

This leads to Special Order 937 and Alien

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

BigDave

Mar-24-2015 6:41 AM

Now some would and could argue that Special Order 937 does not mean the company knew about the Lifeform..... they may not have done...

A directive of the Nostramos programing was that should while on any mission the ship detect a Signal of Alien Origin, then the ship would automatically be re-routed to investigate..

This is why the ship changed its course to Zeta 2 System and then got everyone up out ot Hypersleep...

So maybe it was routine procedure as the company and mankinds goal would have been to investigate any potential signs of inteligent Alien life...

But here is the thing... Ash was added to the mission latter, he was not a Original intended member of the crew.... His actions seemed to show something odd and he was making every effort to keep the Specimen Alive and push through circumstances that would allow for such a thing to get on board.

From letting them bring Kane onboard against Ripleys Orders, to not wanting to take the Organism off right away, Ash said he did not want to risk killing Kane.. but in reality he may know that he needed to let the Organism do its job.

We can ask, as the company knew Ash was a Android, and Mother and Ash was in cahoots together, then if it was to investigate such a thing, than Ash and Mother could have gathered some intel without having to wake up the rest of the crew..... if they knew a bit about the lifeform then they would need the crew.. but thats saying if they knew what the lifeform would do, and could be just coinsidence...

What happens between Prometheus to Alien as far as Shaw and David, and LV 223 and if any information on either is relayed to the company would give us more clues to if the company knew more about what they was getting involved in.

But these dont add up to the company knowing about the signal before hand, and it could be a prime directive of a Weyland Ship should it encounter a Alien Signal.... so maybe they did not know about the Lifeform, by Lifeform they could mean if they find any signs of life to bring it aboard.....

Here is Special Order 937

SPECIAL ORDER 937: "NOSTROMO REROUTED TO NEW COORDINATES. INVESTIGATE LIFE FORM. GATHER SPECIMEN. PRIORITY ONE. INSURE RETURN OF ORGANISM FOR ANALYSIS. ALL OTHER CONSIDERATIONS SECONDARY. CREW EXPENDABLE."

Maybe this could hint that they knew a bit about the Organism or maybe not....

But Prometheus did then add a whole lot more to that situation, regardless of if they ever sent another mission to LV 223...

The company would have gathered intell that Prometheus had set off to co-ordinants that Shaw and Holloway found in many archaeological digs (Star Maps) so the mission was to go to that destination in the hope of finding out if this place does indeed hold any clues to the Origins of Life on Earth.

Now Weyland Files, Viral site does say they detected a signal on LV 426... before Prometheus got to LV 223.

And if so, or if we throw that out as non cannon, we still have Prometheus flying near by LV 426 so that it surely would have detected the Signal.... if David understood it then he would have had some ideas to maybe what could have happened on LV 223 after they get there.

Regardless of that, if the company detected the Space Jockey SOS/Warning, then surely the company would detect Shaws SOS/Warning and by adding up the Agenda of Prometheus Mission, plus Shaws SOS and then the Space Jockey SOS.

The company even with that little intel should have enough information that there is a potential Bio-logical event that is on LV 426.

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

sp_jockey

Mar-24-2015 7:26 PM

BigDave, the plot theory I have involves the destruction of LV232 or its pyramid sites sometime between Prometheus and Alien timelines. The Company fails in getting anything out of LV232 and causes or triggers some kind of destruction event. They are left with nothing at that location. At some point they know about the radio signal from LV426 having an alien origin. Since LV 232 was such a disaster, the Company minimizes the risk and keeps things secret by issuing Special Order 937 to the Nostromo crew.

I don't read the comic books er.. graphic novels I mean, and wouldn't consider anything in them canon. But if LV 232 and LV 426 are both in the Zeta2 Reticulai system, then wouldn't the Prometheus crew detect the LV 426 radio signal if the signal had been running at that time? Or did the radio signal start later and the derelict is more recent than originally thought? Lots of questions to answer.     

DenzelTH

Mar-25-2015 5:10 AM

The deacon can't have got to them that quick as it was growing inside the engineer.

i think shaw is going to the their home planet with just one question in mind, I don't think she even realises what she is bringing with her, although I'm sure David does.

your right there BigDave. LV223 will have to be blown up or the tech destroyed, we could see shaw and david come back to do it, but there's loads of david 8s trying to retrieve that tech. Although I'd prefer to see the deacon at like 15 feet mashing everyone up and being unobtainable. 

\\\" I Want To Go Where They Come From\\\"

BigDave

Mar-25-2015 8:08 AM

Yes interesting news that Prometheus 2 could see a mission to LV 223, i always thought that would have to be the case, because they simply cant leave the place alone as a No Go area.

Maybe they could because of the risk involved but then look at the risk involved in getting a Xeno Sample, surely the Engineers Tech, the Urns, and the Engineers Ships are a more rewarding prospect than the deadly Xeno Eggs.

I would say that the company or some other would wonder why nothing is heard from Prometheus for a while, and send out a recon probe that could detect Shaws SOS, and if they then knew or know of the LV 426 signal and Shaws, they could then realise that they must have come across something on LV 223 and they would send Androids mainly to investigate what happened to Prometheus and what Life or/and Technology could be used by Weyland Corp or Yutani.

Things would have to not quite go to plan however, and at some point someone would have to determine that LV 223 would have to be laid to waste.

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

BigDave

Mar-25-2015 8:13 AM

As far as LV 426...

 

Alien gave us the impression that ship had been on LV 426 for a very very long time and certainly could not have got their after the event of Prometheus. 

Ridley futher went on to say that the ship had been there for thousands of years, i am sure he in one interview said maybe 10 thousand? But his latest comments made about the event he said it happened within a few hundred years of the outbreak that killed off nearly all the Engineers on LV 223... so about 1800-2200 years ago.

And i somehow think they will go with the same idea, and maybe there is a connection to the Chest Busted Engineer Cryo Tupes on the Juggernaught and the Space Jockey, but then that event had occuried hundreds of years after or before.

 

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

HyperNova

Mar-25-2015 10:16 AM

I've often felt with regards to the Shaw/David concept of flying the Juggernaught how does it even happen!!? The Chair is ENORMUS for both Shaw OR David! And he at best was nearly dwarfed slightly by the Navigation Chair on the side that he sat in. Possibly why Ridley Scott scaled it and the design concept of the Engineers down so that the idea of David sitting inside a very large chair did not seem laughable.

Also, I wonder if Davids head was put into the Chair and Shaw bizzarly sat underneath it when the suit closed in around them until she thinks she can trust him enough to put his head back on.

Or Davids head is somehow interconnected with the main navigation console and it is Shaw who is inside the Chair but again, how does it fit around her if it is designed for someone who is considerably more massive then they are!!?

Does the Chair somehow shrink-wrap to fit exactly around the perameters of anyone who sits in it? or is it encoded 'Engineers Only'?

 

 

DenzelTH

Mar-26-2015 4:44 AM

Shaw could use the pods couldn't she? (the ones without the holes in)  and their Home world could be programmed into the juggernaught as a auto piloted location. id like to see Shaw plugged into  a cryogenic pod to see how those tubes affect her, they could even help with her infection from THAT birth. The cryo tubes must have some serious ability to keep that Engineer alive in cryo for so long, so we could even see it fix David with the tubes, although probably  not, as David would be so alien to it. 

 

\\\" I Want To Go Where They Come From\\\"

BigDave

Mar-26-2015 5:54 AM

I would assume that would have to be the case, if we are related Genetically to the Engineers i cant see why there Cryo Pods can not keep a Human Alive and in Cryo Sleep the only other way is Shaw simply is awake for the journey but i would doubt that and i would also sugest that maybe the journey could be a long distance even with Engineer Tech... maybe this could go so way to explain why they have not come back.  We really cant be sure how far away they are.

LV 223 to Earth is what 35 LY lets say.

Now Earth to the centre of our Galaxy is over 25'000 LY and Earth is between 65-70'000 LY from the futherest point we can travel within our Galaxy.... so at speeds the Prometheus Travels to reach the futherest reaches of our Galaxy would take Prometheus some 4000 years.

So we dont know how fast the Juggernaught can travel but even if it is vastly faster well our Engineers homeworld could be anywhere from a short hop to as much as 70'000 light years and thats assuming that Paradise is in our Galaxy.

As far as the holes goes, we dont have to worry about that the chances are the other Ship that David and Shaw found could have no damaged Cryo Pods.

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

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