Feb-15-2016 3:21 PM
Yes very interesting comments, i commented on a post on this Topic the other day and also discused what the Monumental Forest and Rock could mean as far as the Synopsis and taking other comments into acount.... include Ridleys about the place being Dark, Dangerous world (could mean Dark as in Sinister and not Dark as in well void of light) Ridley also said that its a scene of Disaster... and Micheal Biehns comments about the movie being set THOUSANDS of years prior to ALIENS.
Does start to paint us a Picture as i mentioned in my Topic Alien Covenant the story so far.
Ridley had said he is using the Sydney Fox Studios and also they are working on the Ship (Covenant) and so a lot of CGI work would be done there... but there is room for outside shots to be done in New South Wales.... and now seems New Zealand too...
Prometheus was shot in a few locations... most noticeable are Isle of Skye (Sacrifical and Cave Painting Scenes) and Iceland... LV-223 Planets Surface Scenes.
So the Forests and Rocky Terrain of New South Wales, and New Zealand offer a good choice of Locations.. That would fit into a world that is a Utopia or Paradise as far as a ideal place for Future Mankind to set up a New Colony with little or no Teraforming.
And i think this is what the Synopsis means... that the place Covenant is off to is a World that long range surveys etc have revealed to be a very Earth Like Paradise... those locations certainly fit into a Primordial World... Lush with Vegitation and a ideal Habitat to Settle Life, or Seed...
But the other Synopsis and comments point to a Dark World....
if Ridley wants to go back to what scared us in Alien, i cant see him taking us to a Jungle Scene and Aliens running around... so no Predator movie type setting for the poor Humans to be hunted... But we cant rule that out...
But maybe it could point to some Scenes of Paradise how it was Thousands of years ago, or Hundreds (as dont forget a world say 400LY away that was destroyed today by the Death Star... we would not see it for 400LY in the Sky etc). or maybe the place was a Paradise when David arrived?
I cant see David arrive at the place of the Engineers with a Flurishing Civilisation and be left the only one to tell the Tale over a maximum period or upto 10 years.... it does not fit into a Good plot that has no Plot Holes.
But David arriving at a World that has scene War and Destruction would explain similar connections to LV-223 and explain why our Engineers have not paid us any visits or LV-223 for a very very long time.
For the movie to work, there has to be some Engineers left.... for same Reason Prometheus would have been more LAME had there been no Engineers left.... and on the other hand it would not have worked if they arrived and found well a whole Outpost Full of them.
So i think it bolds well for some Flash Back Scenes...
Feb-16-2016 5:59 AM
A little worried about all these lush forests....Hope like BigDave says, they are part of a flashback, a time before the Xeno's destroyed the planet.
Forest planets remind me of Predator or Avatar and those have been done.
I like the Alien series/Prometheus for their barren dead worlds.
Feb-16-2016 8:06 AM
Well knowing Ridley that's the case... I m sure that he will use those locations for flashbacks;
That's the best way to show contrast! I even began to think that Covenant is going to introduce new type of alien... maybe the ultimate creator of Engineers and life itself (maybe thats the creature from the mural)? I somewhere read that black goo is in fact DNA of that creature... some substance with DNA creator and destroyer agent.... Remember that the head of that creature was on top of the holder of inner compartments of black goo capsule (coincidence???), and that same head (five same heads to be precise) was right below mural showing Engineer and that creature.
Dave speculated that mural represent picture similar to that in Sistine chapel ceiling (Creation of Adam)... and yes... it is inspired by that fresco (and have similar religious connotation), but I think that it represent the act of stealing from that creature who actually seems to sleep on that mural. The postition of Engineer legs (and it seems like he have different clothing from what we saw on last Engineer), seems to me like some kind of sneaking, but the creatures head and Engineer hand behind it, is cryptical to me... Maybe if we analyse picture above with creature with opened mouth and relief with Deacon below that (and whole relief have shape of an egg), we can note thate there is something that looks like hands and fingers, on the right side of creatures head... like holding its head or something...
So we can presume (considering all this clues) that Engineers stole something from that creature (like Prometheus), and used it for their own purposes... Second thing thats important is that movie explicitly suggest that humans were made by Engineers who are in fact same as humans (geneticly speaking, and are mortal as David said, suggesting that they are not Gods!), and then we see that they want to destroy humans or to create something different using human DNA and black goo in vases... BUT WHY remains a mystery...
We can see that last Engineer didnt attack David and Wayland instantly so we can rule out that he was infected with something and that those group of Engineers under effect of that infection wanted to destroy humans... (but Engineers head found in capsule room was infected by black goo and under that effect it exploded??? So that scenes hide some interesting clues) so we know that their trip to Earth was planed and intentional (no matter the infection)... What else can we analyse... Well when we look the holograms of Engineers, it is plain that all those Engineers who were running were atacked by whatever came out from all those Engineers in cryo pods on Engineer ship... and this is geograpicly correct statement, because all those Engineers on Holocaus pile (as someone from movie said) were running FROM THE SHIP BACK TO PYRAMID and to capsule room (why for god sake there???)! Some of Engineers from that pile exploded from inside! So there must be some backstroy to all sthis.
Feb-16-2016 8:08 AM
Yes i fully understand what your saying, Avatar 2 is shooting around the same time in New Zealand and Alien Covenant could well be facing off with that kind of a Movie and the last thing they want is for both movies to have some similarities.
The only way formidable CGI and Monumental Forest and Rock can work if applied together to give a Greener World... would be a Jungle/Forest that has a Alien looking look to it and i dont mean Alien as in Giger but as in Avatar or Star Wars Felucia etc... maybe Pretty Much like LV-223 in Fire and Stone Comics
Surely they cant do that..... as Fire and Stone we have a excaped Colony Ship Crashed, we have a group of Human Explorers/Rescue Mission that land on a Engineers World (once a outpost now desolate LV-223) that now is lush with Forest and Lakes and Life, but Life that has been infected by the Black Goo and the Largest Threat comes from Xenomorphs..... and we have a lone Engineer and we have a Android who Evolves himself... well someone Evolves him with the Black Goo.
Surely Covenant can not try and tick those boxes with..... Colony Ship lands on Engineer World that is Lush with Forests, Lakes etc... has signs of Black Goo DNA.... site of a once thriving Engineer World, with little or no remains of Engineers (maybe a few) and a David who upgrades himself and then Xenos hunting down the Humans... is for me too similar to Fire and Stone.
Feb-16-2016 8:37 AM
Yes, sounds like Avatar, " Out there beyond that fence every living thing that crawls, flies, or squats in the mud wants to kill you and eat your eyes for jujubes."
And just like Fire and Stone.
Hope they push a little deeper then just a bunch of xeno'ed creatures who want to kill you! I like action flicks...but that idea sounds very cliche'.
Feb-16-2016 8:53 AM
While a bit off topic, yes you raise Questions that we all hopped would be answered in the next few movies, i however cant be sure we would have such Answers... it really could be a U-Turn and a complete re-design of the Story and Connections... and a simple answers...
What i mean is we have to ask, when they was working on Prometheus both prior to Spaights and Lindeloff drafts... what kind of Back Story did they have.... as Alien was what they was trying to answers as far as these Two Questions.
1) Space Jockey, who was he, what was his purpose and Agenda and why was he carrying those Eggs. What was the Mission and Purpose of the Derelict...
And to evolve that... what is the Space Jockey Race, where are the others what has happened to them?
2) The Eggs, how did they get onboard the Derelict, what purpose did they have and why was the Space Jockey carrying them or what connection did the Space Jockey have with them...
And evolve on that.... how did those Eggs and Xeno come to be!
And here is what we got as far as the Nuts and Bolts.
A1) The Space Jockey are a Giant Humanoid Race who played a part in creation of Life on Earth and Evolving Life on Earth and indeed maybe many other Worlds... they are who Ancient Mankind saw as Gods and Worshiped and Engineer Contact had Evolved Mankind Technologically and Genetically over thousands of years. The Engineers used a Mutagenic Substance to Seed their own DNA to start or Evolve life on Worlds.
A2) These Engineers had ships called Juggernaughts that are related to Derelict and have the same Purpose... this is to be used in Biological Warefare.. to a lesser degree to Carry Cargos of Biological Nature that in application can be used as a Weapon.... well lead to destruction.
These Engineers had played some role in the creation of the Xenomorph or related Organisms that have same DNA Ancestry and they conducted experiments on such DNA to Develop Biological Warefare and this Bio-Weapon was to be used on Earth some 2000 years ago to either destroy us to re-set and start a blank canvas to start again... or to Evolve Mankind.
These experiments and Bio-Weapons are so deadly the Engineers lost control and are nearly all wiped out by what they had created.
These are the nuts and bolts.... that Both drafts had adapted and portrayed in slighty different ways.
The Big Question is when they EVOLVED those 2 Questions into a Story and then started to Story Board this to how they want these things explored on screen did they have a COMPLETE PLAN and so they had the EXPLANATIONS to everything they tried to show and connections?
By Explanation i dont mean Answers to show us.... they can be Ambigious with what they show, but they still NEED TO KNOW the Answers themselves.... so they should know the answers of.
*Black Goo Urns and Connection to Xeno DNA
*Mural Purpose and what it shows.
*Frescos Purpose and what they show.. how connected to Xeno DNA Origins.
*The Engineer and Xeno Connection how they are connected, creation, creator, or something else created not by the Engineers but experimented on to re-create something else.
*The Engineers Bio-Technology how they optained it, did they create it and how then is it similar to the Xenomorph, or was it reverse Engineered from something they found or stole and was that related to the Xeno or was the Xeno and Engineers Bio-Tech and Ships all re-engineered from something else.
*The Architecture of the Engineers and Xenomorph have similar look, some of the Architecture and Technology including the Face/Head ontop of the Door Archways have a similar Alien Looking look to them and so what is the whole connection between Engineers Bio-Tech and Xenomorph?
*Why was Mankind Created, and why did they visit us and play a role in Ancient Mans Evolution... if they did not then how come Mankind depicted such things and the Star Maps.
*What drove them to want to destroy Mankind, or Evolve us and was this the plan all along or did something change?
*What became of the rest of the Engineer Race and what was their true Agenda in context to what they do.
*How did such a Calamity hit those Engineers, what really happend in the Outbreak and what connection does the Chest Busted Engineers on the Juggernaught and Derelict play... did these events happen as a result of the Outbreak... at the same time? or Prior and After and if so by how many years.
These are the MAIN PLOT POINT...... that they surely should have the Answers to before they started to Shoot, and Produce the Props and Sets... they have to have more than a Basic Idea for the above for the movie to be Coherent... they did not have to show them in detail... they would have to give a bit more clues to them and answers in future movies as many fans felt the Ambiguity was too much.
But they at very least have to know what those connections are before they finished the Movie Prometheus.
BECAUSE! If they did not and so it was like Lindeloffs writting on Lost, or if they had the Basic Idea but are now Changing the Idea... it could lead to a Mess!
But i think thats what is happening.... many of those things will never be answered... they could be going for a different more simple... Xeno Origin and Connection Answer.... that will be more emphasis on the Xenomorph.....
Despite many of us hear wanted those Questions i put above answered in more detail and expanded.
Feb-16-2016 9:07 AM
So yes we have all tried to figure out the Connection between LV-223 Outpost, the Mural, Frescos, the Bio-Mechanical Connection... the Black Goo and the Urns and its connection to Xeno DNA and Mural and Frescos.... and how indeed the Face/Head at the top of the Door Archs and what connection they have too as it also has a very Alien looking look to it, that you can losely connect to Space Jockey Suits and Fresco Creature..... But how? How is all this connected..
Sadly will we ever find out? Or are we in for a Lost TV series kind of, flash to something different with no explanation of one that those clues above do not fit... so they remain a Mystrey...
Seems Fox think no one wants to know about LV-223 and all those Ambigious Clues, and Engineer Gods and all that.... but just how the Xeno came to be, and how it came to be on the Derelict... these are now the Central Questions... but hopefully those left behind from Prometheus need some answers and how it connects... but how much we would get or even if they will be discarded is unknown.
You bring up the Adam and David Fresco... many drew the connection... my Theory was and i replied to you before on a Topic About this.... to me it does not fit... it looks more like the Prometheus Punishment by Zues Fresco.... This fits more with Prometheus Mythos...
We have to remeber the Franchise is not Literally going the Gods route... i.e there be no Space YHWH, Space Jesus, Space Satan or Space Zues and Titans... in the Literal sense... but a way of showing beings or great or devine Power that you can see such Fables and Mythos and Religons could be based off.
So yes i think Prometheus Mythos plays a role, loosely and so the Fresco being his punishment fits...
You sugest something was Stolen from that Creature... could it be the Origin of the Xenomorph and Engineers Bio-Tech? Who knows but it plays a role...
One Theory i have is yes, like you said and i discused this a few times... What if that creature is the Eagle Punishment.... sent to punish a faction of Engineers who had done things, and used or stolen things and used them in a way the Gods did not intend.... they was sent a Punishment..
Then these Engineers broke free of the Punishment and reverse Engineered this Punishment to create a whole manner of Tech and then intend to use this on their Creators or Hierarchy something like this or within about that Ball Park is what i think could have been going on.
But it is so Ambigious that it could show a Adam and God depiction as in Creator, but maybe a unintentional one i.e Creature in Fresco is Created from the Engineer but the Engineer does not look pleased about the creation but looks like a Fear, or Sadness as if the Result is something they did not intend...
Feb-16-2016 1:38 PM
Guys... this green planet setting could serve as "Paradise," yet maybe the concept here is the classic "Not Everything Is As It Would Appear" construct.
We already heard Ridley go on about how nasty and dark and bad this Paradise place is. He said it is anything but a paradise, if I remember correctly. Something like that. So. I have a theory.
This lush, green setting is nothing more than a manufactured illusion on the part of the creators.
Didn't we also hear something about forbidden fruit? Adam, Eve type stuff? Maybe this is where that sort of thing takes place? Some fake trickery on the part of the creators.
So, again. Think about it: This could just be a "Matrix" like illusion. Something to attract humans to, like flypaper. Then BAM!!
Chances are I am way off-base. Just a theory.
Feb-16-2016 2:11 PM
lol well Nice Theory.... who knows...
come to think of it, a source i had who had supposed information to Greens Draft Paradise Lost or Prometheus Pandemonium as they also said was a working Title... and he claimed the movie has elements similar to The Matrix so who knows ... then again we cant take those comments as Fact even though information relased after i heard this.. seemed to add up to it.. prior to Covenant U-turn mind.