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ALIEN: Beyond the Xenomorph

ALIEN: Beyond the Xenomorph

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BigDave

DeaconMember10237 XPNov-12-2021 7:33 AM

Its been a WHILE since we had anything added to the ALIEN Franchise apart from Video Games, Novels and Comics etc.

In 2022/2023 we will get a ALIEN TV Series so we will get to see the Xenomorph again after a 5 Year Wait.

My Question is WHAT IS BEYOND THE XENOMORPH?

*Will it ALWAYS be Expected that the ALIEN Franchise will have to Involve the Xenomorph?

*Can you go Beyond the Xenomorph and Cover something ELSE?

*Would it always be Expected to be about the Xenomorph should they USE the ALIEN Prefix?

*Would a Movie/TV Series that is SET within the Universe/Franchise that does-not have the ALIEN Prefix, loose out on Interest due to lack of Brand Recognition?

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

13 Responses to ALIEN: Beyond the Xenomorph

Xenotaris

PraetorianMember2943 XPNov-13-2021 5:25 AM

"*Will it ALWAYS be Expected that the ALIEN Franchise will have to Involve the Xenomorph?"

Well I suppose it would be like having a Godzilla movie without Godzilla and being replaced with a different monster. 

ALIEN started with the xenomorph and has been in everything entitled ALIEN. Replacing them in their own series with a different alien creature would be like Replacing King Kong with a giant Lemur or replacing Godzilla with a belly dragging komodo dragon-like kaiju.

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BigDave

DeaconMember10237 XPNov-13-2021 8:17 AM

I understand this is HOW some Fans do Feel....

Its like the ALIEN in ALIEN came something that Symbolizes the Xenomorph and for MANY this is what the ALIEN was about.  But i feel that also when you looked at the Space Jockey then IT too was ALIEN, and IF the Cargo was merely a Experiment, or a Engineered Weapon that was Created or a Attempt to Create by those Space Jockey, i was always Fascinated as to WHY and to LEARN more about the Space Jockey as another ALIEN LIFE FORM.

So some Fans would Consider that anything about the Space Jockey would also Encompass being ALIEN.  And indeed when we look at Weyland-Yutani who are off to Build Better Worlds, and to Mine Worlds for Resources.... when you are Exploring Space you are eventually going to come Across VERY ALIEN like Worlds and Life-Forms.

But when MOST are asked about the ALIEN Movies when they THINK about ALIEN they think about Xenomorphs and Ripley. More people are Familiar in Context to the Franchise with the Queen than the Space Jockey and i think more People look at James Camerons rendition of the Xenomorph which is what the Comics mainly look at... which is that the Xenomorph Eggs are a Result of a Queen, rather than the Space Jockey Race being a Race who Engineered them... (Until Alien Covenant).

But Indeed when you think of ALIEN  Franchise then the Xenomorph is Synonymous with the Franchise.  You say its like a Godzilla Movie without Godzilla and to a Degree.... YES.... but you can have a Movie within the Godzilla Universe that does-not have Godzilla... but to get it Recognized you are going to have to USE the Prefix of GODZILLA so that People know its set in the same Universe but with this.... the Fans would be like.... SO WHERE IS.... Godzilla.

And the same thing applies to ALIEN... which is WHY with Prometheus it Dropped the ALIEN Prefix as it was NOT about the Xenomorph, it was in the Same Universe it would LOOSELY Connect... but it would more so Cover the Space Jockey and the Biological Experiments and Warfare they USE which the Xenomorph is Connected.

The General Public would be more Familiar with ALIEN and many would NOT even know or Recognize that Prometheus was SET in the ALIEN UNIVERSE and Canon, for it had Synthetics, Weyland Company, the Derelict/Space Jockey Ship/Pilots.  But you have People who here its Connected and go to see IT and then they are like I CANT SEE HOW its Connected.... because there are NO EGGS etc.

If the Movie was Called as its Earlier Version was ALIEN:ENGINEERS... then it would be more Recognized by Brand... but then it would be Expected to have the Xenomorph (which Alien: Engineers did) my Point being that when you Explore something within a UNIVERSE.... be that Godzilla or Alien... you have that Choice of Leaving the Brand Prefix Off and then it NOT being as Recognized or Plugged... but NO SOON as you add the Prefix to say LOOK THIS IS SET IN THE SAME UNIVERSE.... then you will be Expected to have the Xenomorph/Godzilla etc.

It will be Interesting to see how PREY will do... as it does-not have the Predator Prefix but it will be a Prequel to the Franchise.... but the Posters and Trailers will LIKELY showcase the Predator so People will see a Connection.

A ALIEN Prequel could have been Called say PARASITE.... and in the Trailers you show a Face Hugger etc and Fans would recognize the Xenomorph, you would NOT have to have the Prefix ALIEN to have the Xenomorph... However when you have the ALIEN Prefix then for many it would be Expected to have the Xenomorph.

I think a Great Example is AVP.... ALIEN VS PREDATOR... as Opposed to it being Called XENOMORPH VS YAUTJA

 

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

BigDave

DeaconMember10237 XPNov-13-2021 8:59 AM

HOWEVER......

I do think there is MORE to the Franchise than just Eggs, Face Huggers etc.

You have the Future of Human Space Exploration, Future Technology, A.I, Corporate Greed and Competition...  you would have Rivalry and Competition for Resources in Space....... and YES you will also Eventually go and RUN into LIFE... In Context to the Weyland-Yutani Universe then the Xenomorph was SURELY NOT the Only other Life-Form in the Galaxy.

BUILDING BETTER WORLDS... was what the Company was doing more so than... GO GET US A XENOMORPH.  But this was the PLOT for the Franchise (Obtain a Xenomorph).  You could Expand the Franchise to Explore other STUFF, many Avenues for SCI-FI within the Universe of ALIEN... but you will have FANS who will EXPECT that anything within the Universe if ALIEN has to have XENOMORPHS and some even Ripley..

Its kind of a CURSE and CATCH 22 with the Franchise.... while you can Expand on other Stuff and have it SET in the same Universe you will by some Fans be Expected to Answer... WHERE IS THE XENOMORPH... and if you want more BRAND Recognition then having the ALIEN Prefix you would be Expected to have Xenomorphs.

While the Comics, Games and Novels have Expanded out the Franchise in Various and Alternative ways that REVOLVE around the Xenomorph.  When we look at the Franchise as far as THEATRICALLY... we have.

A Distant Moon (LV-426) that has a Crashed Ship (Derelict) with a Cargo of Eggs (Xenomorph) that the Company wish to Obtain... they FAIL... and 57 Years latter they Discover Survivor Ripley, who informs them about what she Discovered... she is Informed that Humans have a Colony on LV-426 and have NEVER encountered anything like this.... the Colony are Informed and SEND out someone to Investigate and well this LEADS to the Outbreak/Fall of Hadleys Hope.  This is DESTROYED at the End of ALIENS and so the 3rd Movie goes to Indicate that the ONLY source of Xenomorph is via Fury-161 with Special Attention to RIPLEY and the Queen that Gestates inside her.

After she Sacrifices herself.... its 200 Years before USM have Obtained a Specimen by Cloning Ripley... at the END of this Movie we are left to ASK... are all the Xenomorphs GONE?

This was NOT taking into Account the Prequels... and even so while it was left to ASSUME the Derelict/Eggs are GONE after ALIENS.... we cant RULE-OUT the Company has been to LV-426 prior to ALIENS..... although this would BEG the Question of WHY would you make a Colony on a World when you KNOW what is there.... but this can become a Conspiracy/Cover Up etc.

This is WHERE the Alien:Isolation Series takes us...... but we have NOT explored such in a Movie..... but again.... a Question i have ASKED a Number of Times is....... WAS THE DERELICT..... the ONLY such SHIP with that Cargo?  so YES there were Avenues....  also you could have looked at the World the Xenomorph came from..... IF you are going to look at it as its OWN SPECIES.

HOWEVER....

What it was led to be was a Engineered Organism that First either came from the Engineers Experiments on LV-223 or as a Result/Evolution of their Pathogen and the Horrors it could Create.

But again as with Weyland-Yutani... the Xenomorph was ONLY a Small Part/Connection to the Engineers.... they also were more into the BUILDING BETTER WORLDS and Species....

The Engineers Plot had opened up the Franchise to a Massive Scale/Scope....would Exploring the Engineers and what other WORLDS they Build and Organisms they Create really CONSTITUTE the ALIEN: Prefix?

Prometheus had given us the Engineers Horrific Experiments, the Creation Tool/Pathogen that CAN/WAS used to Create Horrors that are Connected and Pre-Date the Xenomorph....

Does the Past Origins that Connect to the Xenomorph as in Monsters like the Deacon, Hammepedes, the Neomorphs and a WHOLE MANNER of other Horrors... would they NOT be worthy of being ALIEN?

What we END up with is the ALIEN is Actually NOT so Alien.... and WHAT is so ALIEN about it is the Pathogen that began the Process.  The Tool that can be used to Hybridize Organisms... to Create a Engineered Monster... 

There is PLENTY more BEYOND the Xenomorph within the Universe of ALIEN... but if you are going to USE the ALIEN Prefix then it has to be ALIEN and my Point i was making was CAN you have a ALIEN Movie/TV Series that does-not have Xenomorphs?

I think YES you can.... IF its Connected as FAR as what had BECOME the Xenomorph and so IF you Explore the Pathogens Origins, or other Horrors that it has Created, other Worlds infected by the Pathogen... were we see Monsters that are NOT the Xenomorph but you can make some Vague Connection...

For me ALIEN is Connected to the Space Jockey/Engineers..... so anything they Create that is Quite Alien Looking (None Humanoid) would Warrant being ALIEN.

But more so for me... it would be Anything that has a Genetic Origin/Link to the Xenomorph be that it PREDATES it or EVOLVES from it or Experiments on it would Warrant being a ALIEN Movie.

I think that Constitutes being ALIEN....

To me the Deacon, the Hammerpedes and Neomorph are JUST as ALIEN as the Xenomorph... but its a QUESTION of HOW MANY would only want to Explore something that has the Xenomorphs we have became USED to in the Movie Franchise.......  HOW MUCH can you really go about with this?

Time will Tell with the TV Series.

And so ONCE you have shown the Xenomorph over and over and over... is there anything BEYOND the Xenomorph?  I say YES... is there anything that some Fans would BE interested in.... thats the Difficult Question.

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

Xenotaris

PraetorianMember2943 XPNov-13-2021 9:02 PM

Ah, I understand now, so the franchise could still exist beyond the xenomorphs. Well the Godzilla movies do have stand alones like Mothra and Rodan

ALIEN VERSUS PREDATOR UNIVERSE

Thoughts_Dreams

NeomorphMember1549 XPNov-14-2021 5:21 AM

“Will it ALWAYS be Expected that the ALIEN Franchise will have to Involve the Xenomorph?”

It depends on who you ask, if they associate it with the Xeno then yeah. Some people can accept new things which is fine while some people have a difficult time to find that to be OK. To me it's about people that get into situations that they are not prepared to handle.

Giger designed the Xeno but there are other monsters in it also that are not the Xeno which to me implies that there were already other things in the beginning and there was also the SJ that carried the monsters so he was a threat too. Since there were already other monsters in it since the beginning it's totally fine to add threats that are non-xeno things. Maybe some people will expect the Xeno to be in it, but I don't look at it like that.

Sure you can look at other things and expand it, for all that was wrong with Prometheus at least it tried something new. You had the Engineers, the Hammerpede, Deacon, the Squid, and Fifield although the theatrical movie had the crap version. You can cover the Company, the Engineers, introduce military things like they did in AR although it could be better executed.

You could have privately owned justice systems and what happens when corporations take over the law, you can expand on the Engineers, you can expand on WY, you can have competitors to WY and see how they try to get the Xeno as a weapon and try to profit from it, you can look at gender issues which has been there from day one. Androids could be expanded on even though they shouldn’t be what it’s about cyborgs could work (Alien mixed with Robocop). Environmental damage could be introduced, the black goo could be expanded on.

Get the story and characters right otherwise we’ll get something like the prequels, with good ideas but had bad to average execution. It doesn’t need to be about the Xeno but title it Alien: X, Alien: Y so people know that it has got the connection otherwise it will be vague like Prometheus.

“*Would a Movie/TV Series that is SET within the Universe/Franchise that does-not have the ALIEN Prefix, loose out on Interest due to lack of Brand Recognition?”

It shouldn't be a problem if they are clear in the marketing that it's tied to the Alien franchise and not the “is this an alien movie?” garbage. Star Wars never did that and not other well known franchises to my knowledge, but I can be mistaken. To me it could be interesting but I'm not sure how people in general would react and I don't want to speak for other people.

Hopefully there's a way to take the franchise forward, there is potential.

BigDave

DeaconMember10237 XPNov-15-2021 8:03 AM

"so the franchise could still exist beyond the xenomorphs"

I think so YEAH..... a Point is that the Xenomorph is Iconic, but while you have Freedom in the Comics to make Various Adaptions and Alternatives, i think with the Theatrical or even TV Series its more Costly and you have to be Careful.  So i was looking that ONCE we have seen the Xenomorph on Screen again say for another 2 Movies or say for like 25-30% of a TV Series

Its then can you do more with them.... or can you LOOK at something Beyond them, but then thats the Catch 22 when you EXPLORE something Different would it get the Recognition without the Brand Name... and IF you use the ALIEN Prequel its about IF People would be ok with something thats Different?

But i think then you STILL have to have some Connective Tissue.... there has to be a Connection to ALIEN even if its LOOSE.. and that Connection has to come down to being Connected to LV-223 because this seems to be the PLACE where it all Began... Unless you Explore that it Began somewhere Else and LV-223 was where things had become Experimented/Evolved with.

As Thoughts_Dreams brings up... there is more in the Franchise....

But if you have a Movie (Especially) or a TV Series that was about the Weyland-Yutani Company, Synthetics.... that had NOTHING ALIEN about it.... by that i dont mean Xenomorphs... but say nothing that you could Trace any Connection to the Space Jockey or Xenomorph in.... then Fans may NOT feel this is a ALIEN MOVIE etc.

ALIEN is Expanded beyond the Xenomorph with Prometheus but so many have NOT seen HOW this Movie should and can Connect to ALIEN because it does-not have Xenomorphs.......  The Queen is more Recognized as being ALIEN and Ripley and Colonial Marines than say the Engineers/Space Jockey.... which is Unfortunate.

The ALIEN Expanded Universe has Massive Potential.... beyond Ripley and Xenomorphs, the Problem is doing a Space Exploration or other Sci-Fi that Features the Weyland-Yutani Company or Synthetics etc... would LIKELY not be Accepted by some as being ALIEN or by having the ALIEN Prefix....

So the Problem you have is making such a STORY and NOT having the Prefix, can lead to People NOT being aware its in the same Universe or as much Marketing and Brand Recognition... but then WHEN you Market it too much as in the Universe of the ALIEN Franchise.... sometimes your Expected to have the ALIEN.

The same thing is Exploring the Engineers as FAR as other Worlds and Races FAR FAR AWAY and Deal with Conflict between them that DOES-NOT have any Xenomorphs or Similar.... again... for some THIS would NOT be Considered ALIEN, and while you can AIM for SPIN-OFF as Such its again the Recognition...

To get more Interest you have to Market it as being in the same Universe and when you do then you will be Expected to have the ALIEN.

For me i think that YES in either Case... a Engineers Spin Off or a Weyland-Yutani then for it to WORK you have to have a ALIEN  at some Point.

But my Point would be that THIS so called ALIEN does-not have to be a Xenomorph but you have to have it connected.... as in its something that Pre-Existed the Xenomorph, or something that Evolved from the Xenomorph or another ALIEN that had came from the same Origins.

Something ALIEN or has Alien Origins that is Different... but NOT TOO DIFFERENT.

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

BigDave

DeaconMember10237 XPNov-15-2021 8:22 AM

The Neomorph from Alien Covenant had its Origins from some of the UNUSED Concepts for the Earlier Prometheus Drafts (Alien: Engineers) there have been Various Concepts over the Years and some of these UNUSED ONES could be USED to Inspire and Create something NEW.....

As LONG as you can Trace some of  the Xenomorph to it, even if its via Procreation then i think you could EXPLORE such as a ALIEN Movie.

You could even have something that PREDATES  the Experiments on LV-223, something were it all came from.... THIS could be a ALIEN SPECIES, a USE of the Starbeast Concept by having a more Intelligent Ancestor that does-not have to be a Xenomorph Carbon Copy.... but something you can make a Connection with.

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

Xenotaris

PraetorianMember2943 XPNov-15-2021 10:46 AM

I think we should have the vanilla-morphs appear every now and again along side the "new guys"

ALIEN VERSUS PREDATOR UNIVERSE

Xenotaris

PraetorianMember2943 XPNov-17-2021 11:43 AM

I have lately been flip floping on how I should uplift the xenomorphs for my later chapters to the AVPU. Should I make them more Zerg/Tyrranid-like, have a control unit like Mass Effect's Reapers, a new hybrid species, or a combination of the two?

Should the xenomorphs in the end be more like a rogue machine needing an updated software or a growing alien threat?

I am not sure how I would evolve the species, it takes us into new territories where anything could happen. But the main thing if we evolved the xenomorph, what traits do we keep and traits do we take away and how would this effect them both in-universe and out-universe

ALIEN VERSUS PREDATOR UNIVERSE

BigDave

DeaconMember10237 XPNov-18-2021 8:13 AM

I think with the Xenomorph and its Evolution you are left with TWO ways to go.

1) A Natural Evolution, the Xenomorph could be a Species that has a RAPID kind of Evolution and Adaption, and so WHO KNOWS as to HOW FAR and FAST they could Evolve.....  8000+ Years ago Mankind was living in Caves with simple Stone Tools.... we had LIVED this way for 10's of Thousands of Years.  before we Gradually Evolved through Various AGES until we saw a RAPID EVOLUTION as FAR as Technologically in the Last 200 Years.

But i am talking about Knowledge/Technology etc as Opposed to a Physical Evolution.  So how we got from Stone Age to Space Age took a LONG TIME.. could the Xenomorph be able to Progress at a Faster Pace?

But then you can also look at Genetically/Physically as far as Evolution too.

A Human has NOT changed much over 10's of Thousands of Years..... we may Change so Little in Thousands of Years Time...... NATURALLY.

But i think if we saw Humans in 3000 Years we may look Very Different as i think we would EVOLVE ourselves in a Artificial Way..... which brings us too.

2) Artificial/Engineered Evolution....  the Xenomorph becomes Evolved via Experimentation and a HUBRIS in doing such a thing.....  this KIND of Hubris is what we see with the Planet of the Apes Plot.....

The Plot to TIE in a Xenomorph to Synthetics/A.I is ONE that has Disappointed a Number of Fans... but it makes Sense..... if Synthetics become Sentient, then using the Xenomorph and Evolving it to become a KILLING MACHINE to USE on Humans make Sense... because the Xenomorph requires Humans as Hosts, so it would HAVE NO Interest in Harming a Synthetic unless they GET in the WAY.

There is a PROBLEM with Evolving the Xenomorph though....

While it may be Limited as it is.... i think you have to be CAREFUL as to HOW MUCH you go and Evolve them.

The Xenomorph has NO MORALS it just SURVIVES like a Insect, Spider etc it has the Instinct to Survive and Procreate..... a BASIC INSTINCT.

To EVOLVE them where they then Speak to Each other... would be a Mistake they should RELY on a Telepathic Communication..... we dont need any JERRY'S LOL

To have them Building Space Ships and the LIKE would maybe make them become just a Star-Ship Troopers with Xenomorphs... this could LOOK like the Warhammer Tyranids... but would this WORK?

Having them EVOLVE to ADAPT to their Environment and Methods of Procreation i think is DEFINITELY something we should Expect the Organism to be able to do.

I think when looking at BOTH KINDS of Evolution you have to ASK the Questions.

A) What is the Xenomorphs END GAME/AGENDA?

B) What would be the END GAME/AGENDA of anyone who wants to Experiment/Re-Engineer the Xenomorph?

Because the Answer to these SHOULD then FORM as to HOW the Xenomorph would/could Evolve.

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

Xenotaris

PraetorianMember2943 XPNov-18-2021 10:47 AM

Well I already have xenomorphs as an engineer creation in AVPU that naturally evolves from its earlier forms millions of years ago. The evolution of the Queen caste in AVPU is the sign of the xenomorphs gaining independence from the Engineers. Of coarse this isn't in my fanfiction yet but in my creative notes on world anvil.

"To EVOLVE them where they then Speak to Each other... would be a Mistake they should RELY on a Telepathic Communication..... we dont need any JERRY'S LOL"

I already have the Xenomorph Queen and higher castes being telepathic.
Also Jerry is a not a real xenomorph, he is a robot that looks like a xenomorph similar to how you have talking teddy bears from the movie A.I.

So far in what is in my fanfiction as of now are early attempts of humanity trying to control the xenomorphs through genetic manipulation and cybernetic augmentations.


ALIEN VERSUS PREDATOR UNIVERSE

damiendada

OvomorphMember28 XPNov-28-2021 5:55 AM

It rather makes you want! In fact it is the story of the "original" comics that they will transcribe in series ... if this is the case, it can be very nice.

Xenotaris

PraetorianMember2943 XPDec-01-2021 5:05 AM

damiendada

what?

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