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MAKE ALIEN GREAT AGAIN!

MAKE ALIEN GREAT AGAIN!

4 Upvotes152 RepliesUpvoteAdd A Reply
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BigDave

Jul-05-2020 6:37 AM

With the FRANCHISE being in a Pickle at the Moment, with the Prequels being in Cyro-sleep... maybe for 57 Years ;)

The ALIEN Franchise is still Regarded as a Great Franchise that still makes MONEY in other Mediums/Merchandise.

I think that a VAST Majority see ALIEN as a Great Movie

It Spawned a Sequel that i think a LOT of Fans still Enjoy and Respect, and ONE that made the IMAGE of the ALIEN become more Mainstream.

Since that GOLDEN ERA for the Franchise, things got a lot more Divisive and Disappointing for the Fanbase.

I dont think we have had a GOOD Movie since 1986 we have seen some Potential with what Followed, but then also Flaws.

Can the ALIEN Franchise be made GREAT AGAIN?

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

152 Responses to MAKE ALIEN GREAT AGAIN!

SuperAlien

Jul-11-2020 4:24 AM

Attaboy!

The Superalien will make the Alien great again. We are not far from it.

"He survived, he’s now in Disneyland in Orlando, and no way am I going back there. How did he end up in Disneyland? I saw him in Disneyland, Jesus Christ!"

SuperAlien

Jul-11-2020 4:37 AM

To honour the bright future of Alien (and being tired of my old profile) I decided for an upgrade. So much for daliens, from now on I will be SuperAlien!

BigDave, sorry for hijacking your post to make this announcement, but this is the last one I was reading.

"He survived, he’s now in Disneyland in Orlando, and no way am I going back there. How did he end up in Disneyland? I saw him in Disneyland, Jesus Christ!"

Leto

Jul-11-2020 5:10 AM

Masterpiece! Congratulations on rebirth!

SuperAlien

Jul-11-2020 5:34 AM

Thank you for you kindness, Leto.

"He survived, he’s now in Disneyland in Orlando, and no way am I going back there. How did he end up in Disneyland? I saw him in Disneyland, Jesus Christ!"

BlackAnt

Jul-11-2020 12:08 PM

It's Bird! It's A PLANE! NO! IT'S SUPERDALIENS!

I see what you did there SuperAlien! Way to go! 
LMAO!!!! Very Awesome!

Great idea!

MonsterZero

Jul-11-2020 12:32 PM

Nice Dal..err SuperAlien!

Crazy as it sounds...D.C. comics universe might be a better fit for the xeno.

 

SuperAlien

Jul-11-2020 1:35 PM

LMAO!!!

We need to change the strategy, stop living in denial, Disney owns Alien, Disney owns Marvel, it is inevitable the two universes will collide. It will be a terrible fight. The question is not when, but who will be the first! And when everything would seem lost, the SuperAlien will make Alien great again.

We could keep talking about Ripley and Hicks and even the Engineers, but it would never be the same again. Times have changed. No matter how bad I hate to say it, Alien would have a great time hunting the Marvel Superheroes. This is already happening in the comics.

A dream within a dream?

Who's having nightmares now, Ripley?

"He survived, he’s now in Disneyland in Orlando, and no way am I going back there. How did he end up in Disneyland? I saw him in Disneyland, Jesus Christ!"

SuperAlien

Jul-11-2020 2:05 PM

You will see, BigDave, in a few years we'll discuss if the SuperAlien is vulnerable to Kryptonite and if the green crystal in Prometheus' Head Room was not green Kryptonite. You see, we never considered it until now. We need to expand our views beyond what we think we know about the Alien universe. God doesn't build in straight lines.

"He survived, he’s now in Disneyland in Orlando, and no way am I going back there. How did he end up in Disneyland? I saw him in Disneyland, Jesus Christ!"

SuperAlien

Jul-11-2020 2:34 PM

Can you imagine any kid waiting to see a film like this? And these toys are on the market for some time.

"He survived, he’s now in Disneyland in Orlando, and no way am I going back there. How did he end up in Disneyland? I saw him in Disneyland, Jesus Christ!"

MonsterZero

Jul-11-2020 3:04 PM

I'd like to see Superman infected with the black goo pathogen.

A Superman version of monster Fifield would be amazing!

 

 

BigDave

Jul-12-2020 10:56 AM

"defending this loop of senseless nonsense for years…..I digress though we need to save this franchise from all these bad things….I don’t see how yet or if it is even possible."

Thats the Problem we are NOW in the Direction has Displeased a LOT of Fans but i dont think you can come up with any Prequel Conclusion that is going to WORK.  Not for the Majority.

The ADVANTAGE that Prometheus had and also by attempting to STEER AWAY from Alien is you dont STEP on the TOES of the Original as far as those Eggs and the Xenomorph, so you could GO and do other stuff without WORRYING about how it Conflicts with the Alien Franchise.

The PROBLEM with a Direct Prequel Path like Alien Covenant is that as you are LEADING towards ALIEN as far as to ANSWER those Questions then you do RE-WRITE the History a bit, and you have to be CAREFUL because what you do/show will become Canon Answers to what was Mystery before.... 

When these Answers are then something that is NOT going to SIT well with Most of the Fans.. (David Creator Arc) and how it seems the Eggs are just 2nd Fiddle... then this is something that has DILUTED the Xenomorph to Many more than seeing it COOKED by a Alien 5, Alien 6 etc.

So as you said BlackAnt "I don’t see how yet or if it is even possible."

I could not agree more ;)

I think what MADE the Franchise Great was the UNKNOWN and the more Movies about the Xenomorph then the more it becomes KNOWN and Familiar and Hunted Down by Predators at Local Swimming Pools.

This leaves the GREAT UNKNOWN as the Eggs and Origins and the Space Jockey and WHO they are...

Once you go to ANSWER those then it will NO LONGER be a Unknown... and depending on HOW you handle this you could either get something EPIC... or something that Tarnishes the Franchise..

Unfortunately i think we are on the Road to the Latter.

If they had Decided to NOT give us a Direct Prequel and to STEER AWAY from  the Xenomorph and ALIEN then Prometheus had opened up a Galaxy of Unknowns... with MANY things to Explore....

With Alien Covenant the Franchise was PUT back into a BOX, where its simply about a Robot who goes on to Create One of the MOST ICONIC pieces of Sci-Fi History.

This is NOT to be Anti-David.... i think his ARC could have Continued away from LV-426 and those Eggs.

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

BigDave

Jul-12-2020 11:02 AM

Regarding SuperAlien ;)

LOL i do think Joking Aside though this is HOW we can see the Xenomorph eventually Exploited in Games and Comics... (SuperHero Cross-Overs)

IF this then becomes what the Theatrical Future is, then the ALIEN Franchise that ALIEN began a Sci-Fi Horror about the Unknown... and what Prometheus could have laid down as a Foundation of Expansion... would just become a JOKE!

Where The Predator would appear to be a Sensible and Solid Sequel in Comparison ;)

The ALIEN Franchise should NOT be turned into Guardians of the Galaxy meets Starship Troopers ;)

I dont have too much HOPE for the Future... I would expect more Damage to be done than the NEW Star Wars Trilogy did to Star Wars (Especially the Last Jedi)

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

dk

Jul-12-2020 9:02 PM

 SuperAlien I kind of agree and was saying that in a different way- it's going to move forward under Marvel/Disney. Fans can always bow out- I would give it a shot expecting a popcorn movie. I can always quit if I don't like it.

BigDave I would rather keep things a mystery as well and can easily pretend the prequels never even happened- and why not- Bloomkamp wanted to pretend half the quadrilogy never really happened.

Even if RS took over and went with anther movie, it would still be divisive with fans. With that in mind, may as well see what someone else can do with it. Seems a lot minds are already made up.

 

 

 

 

Thoughts_Dreams

Jul-13-2020 3:08 AM

BD

I agree that there are things in the prequels that could be expanded on other than the monsters and the eggs. Giving the alien franchise new things is something that the prequels have done right especially the Engineers.

The themes are interesting, artificial intelligence and creation but it is not good when the themes are given bigger space than the characters and the story. You got to make them all work in the context of the movie. Ash and Bishop worked but they were not allowed to take it all over. Even Call was somewhat interesting even though far from those mentioned before.

Getting rid of them is something that I have no problem with. Letting Hicks or Newt survive would have been repetitive. Either you let Ripley die or Hicks but I would not have liked to have them together in another movie. Ripley and the doctor in 3 worked because of the general feeling in 3 but he died which fitted the mood. Repeating the family motif would be boring, that is my point. The third movie has problems but when you look at the circumstances in where it was made it is a miracle that it is as good as it is, that is another reason why it is my favorite in the franchise. A lot might disagree but to me it is up there with Star Wars 5, Terminator 1, Terminator 2, Dawn of the Dead, Night of the Living Dead, for example.

Sure repetition often gets boring, but it depends on how it is done. They should keep it in the shadows where you do not see it often and also it should not be the focus on the movie. One of the good things about Alien is how they handled the monster. It was there to show our fears or how ever to put it but the story was not about it.

Expanding on the monster is a risk because it might turn into a joke. Because Alien C and Prometheus failed it has made the situation of Alien as a symbol worse. Having some more Xeno related scenes could have elevated the monster in Prometheus depending on how they were done. One example is the Xeno Fifield, that was scary because he was so disfigured, deadly, and fast and it was new.

"... it seems RS felt that having David be the Creator would UPLIFT his Characters Role in the Franchise"

The problem is that Scott just cares about David and maybe Walter and sacrifices the rest. I don't say that everyone have to be written and executed extremely well but you need more than one or two characters. I mean human characters, sure you can have androids but the humans should be the focus.

"The Problem with making a NEW Franchise Movie is IF the Eventual Movie would just STICK to and PLAY it SAFE!"

If that means to getting rid of David as the creator and having less of David then sure. You still need better made human characters because I am tired of androids taking over the franchise. The franchise is about more than Ripley and I am not against having something new but having enough relatable human characters is a must. We need better human characters and less of David if they shall make another prequel. Right now I am at the point where I say erase the prequels as if they never happened, I very much doubt that they will make it all right with a third one. Sure they could maybe make a third one where they focus more on the Engineers, have less of David, and make better human characters but I am not sure how likely that is to succeed. Maybe it is better to keep the prequels as an alternate universe.

Thoughts_Dreams

Jul-13-2020 3:10 AM

Leto

All characters do not have to be logical, in real life there are some stupid people. If we talk about scientists they should have to be kind of smart though. By the way, who would so dumb so they would lick an egg that they do not know what it is? Maybe there are germs on it that we do not know about especially if they find it on another planet.

I liked Oram as a character, he was way better than Daniels because at least he was interesting and had a personality something that Daniels and more of them lacked. Those that worked as characters in AC were David (although he was an asshole), Walter, Oram, and maybe Faris, the rest had as much personality as a chair. You mention that Oram puts his head into an egg, maybe he thought that God would help him since he was religious and also he was curious. Since he was fairly well written I did not got in a bad mood when he died because he was not stupid, while Milburn and Fifield were morons something that I will mention in the next paragraph.

You mention Millburn and Fifield and yeah maybe they were supposed to be victims but they should have been killed off in a smarter way but they were poorly made. Everyone can make mistakes that lead to their death but that does not mean that the mistakes are totally stupid because sometimes bad things happen. Holloway was not very convincing, I just found him to be generally dislikable and also the moment that he removed his helmet I wished him death because he was so stupid in addition to be an asshole. An example of his assholiness is how he was to David.

"Yes - we know whose idea it is!"

I am not sure if Scott tells them to make the characters into idiots but I think that he is too much involved in the story writing by giving ideas about what they should write about. Look at the making of Prometheus and you can see that he gives ideas that messes up the writing.

Thoughts_Dreams

Jul-13-2020 3:18 AM

DK

There is a risk with having Scott involved in a third prequel, and that is that he would be involved in the writing of the story. As far as I know that is what he has been in Covenant and Prometheus and we know how that turned out. Maybe it is for the best to leave the prequels and pretend that they never happened. I am not sure how that would work though because you have the movies AC and P because maybe if Disney came out and said that they never happened you would still have fans that would miss that and still believe that David made the Xeno. By doing this there might be a risk that they say that Alien 3 never happened and I would not like that, I would not mind if that was done to the prequels though.

BigDave

Jul-13-2020 6:34 AM

Regarding the STUPID DECISIONS

Then its IMPORTANT to remember with Movies that introduce a Horrific Threat then they become a PLOT DEVICE to allow the Story/Threat to Develop.

Kane was STUPID but to a Degree plain Curious.

There was a NUMBER of Stupid Moments in ALIENS

The KEY thing is HOW they are Wrote and Executed... with Milburn/Fifield then the Draft had  the Space Cobra Scene having MORE of a Excuse for it (Fifield was STONED) in my Prometheus Re-Write i did make that Scene even more SENSIBLE... so its just how the Writers would WRITE such Scenes and then how they are Executed.

The Oram Scene would NOT have looked so SILLY if he had NOT encountered the Neomorphs and seen Davids Workshop....

If David had said something about Gods Creation, and How the Engineers are like Humans but they BORN from Eggs and that he has something to SHOW HIM and takes him to the Room and then claims that inside are Young Humanoids that are incubating (that he is keeping Safe so the Species has a Chance to Live on)  and tells Orgam to go in close to Listen to their Heart Beat!

Then maybe Oram could be Forgiven for NOT being as Cautious as he should have. But even so he would have still seen Davids Workshop and that should have SET OFF some Alarm Bells.

I Certainly think that a WELL WRITTEN Story that is Executed Well does Work..... and Characters that are Good and Executed well does UPLIFT the story.

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

MonsterZero

Jul-13-2020 6:51 AM

We carefully removed the xenomorph's brain. It made a ‘slurping’ sound as it pulled free...This is  our fourth attempt to keep one ‘active’.  I’d asked the marines for five alien corpses; they'd delivered four. Removing the brain has been an issue, the exoskeleton is damned hard and detaching it from the stem even harder. This one has good mass though, and high brain wave activity. We have good feelings about this specimen. I directed the team to attach the dream monitoring device.  Now it was time to poke and prod, danger free.

BigDave

Jul-13-2020 6:53 AM

I will say it again..... WHAT really made ALIEN Great was the UNKNOWN.

Expanding on ALIEN there was quite a BIT that was more than Eggs.

*WHERE did the Eggs come from?

*WHAT was they doing on that Ship?

*WHAT was the intended Purpose/Target for the Cargo?

*WHY would the Space Jockey had been Intending to USE the Cargo?

ONCE you Answer those then their is MUCH more you could Answer about WHO the Space Jockey were/are!

ONCE you answer some of those Questions you LOSE the UNKNOWN and Mystery... Once you Especially answer the Xenomorph Origins and it is merely a Engineered Killing Machine, then there is NOT much you can do with it apart from more Eggs ==> Xenomorphs ==> Dead Humans.

Another Part of the ALIEN Mystery was... SPECIAL ORDER 937

This implies the Company had KNOWN something about the Specimen prior to the Nostromo being re-routed.

These UNKNOWNS were NEVER touched upon in the ALIEN Franchise, and i think EVENTUALLY even if we NEVER had Prometheus but we got ALIEN 5, ALIEN 6 and ALIEN 7 etc....  then i think Eventually they would have HAD to go for the Origins and Answers to the Mystery of ALIEN after the Xenomorph had got Cremated.

Prometheus was NOT a bad Start!  it lacked any real Alieny Attack Moments (Fifield and Space Cobra were NOT a Good Substitute to a Xenomorph) but it NEVER had to have any Xenomorphs.... the Neomorph would have DONE Fine and the Concepts for the intended MONSTER in the Prequel did look more like the Neomorph.

But with going for a Direct Prequel in Alien Covenant and the Route of David the Creator as Downplayed the Role of the Engineers, it has Degraded the Enigma of the Xenomorph and only Serves to UPLIFT the Theme!

*Knowledge, Technology are POWER

*Sub-Creating something with Free-will and allowing Powerful Knowledge and Technology to Fall into their Hands can be Disastrous for the Creator.

*Desire to PLAY GOD and mess about with STUFF that should be LEFT alone has Grave Consequences.

*That its what you Achieve that Elevates you as Godlike what you CREATE.... so the Desire to Prove you are more Superior to your Creator by Creating something Superior yourself would ELEVATE you do being more GOD than you Creator thought they was...

So these THEMES and ARC looked like it was ALWAYS going to Revolve around DAVID.... the U-Turn coming in WHAT IF...  what if we MADE it that David had Created the Original Monster...

It just Appeared that EVERYTHING else was Sacrificed to PUSH that Arc about David.

Such a Origin of the ALIEN has made it become something MUCH less than it was...

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

BigDave

Jul-13-2020 7:02 AM

@MonsterZero

;)

I like it.... certainly what we need to look at... is how do we EVOLVE the Beast and UPLIFT it... from Experiments can we UPLIFT it... or is their something MORE about them than just KILLING?

Why i have brought up RIPLEY 8 in a Few Posts this Year.. as with Ripley 8 you can say is is more Superior to any other HUMAN... and she Retains the Memories to Ripley.

Surely she holds the KEY to Enhanced Humanity and some kind of IMMORTALITY (Genetic Memory Transfer).

And the BIG THING about this is that the XENOMORPH DNA is the KEY to those Enhancements/Traits that Ripley 8 has.

If the Engineers had encountered a ANCIENT ORGANISM that they had NO ROLE in its Existence and Saw Potential in its DNA to Enhance themselves and that this Organism had some kind of Genetic Memory Transfer...

THIS gives the Engineers FAR Greater Reason to be Experimenting with such a Organism.. than merely it can make a GOOD KILLING MACHINE.

THIS ^^^ is what a Sequel should have looked into... and then SHOW that David would Create his Own Monster.

Rather than the route of ALIEN COVENANT.

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

MonsterZero

Jul-13-2020 7:33 AM

Thanks BD!

I'd like to think we can learn from the beast, not just replicate it. 

 

Leto

Jul-13-2020 7:44 AM

>>>*Sub-Creating something with Free-will and allowing Powerful Knowledge and Technology to Fall into their Hands can be Disastrous for the Creator.

 

No. This is not true. But if the creator is an evil sadist? Perhaps he deserved such an attitude!

It all depends on education. David said: "I think if we are kind, it will be a kind world".

Peter Weyland was not kind, he was tough and cruel creator (father). I know that your words are primarily about sub-creating, about AI - this is why it is incorrect. Peter created David; and influenced him with his behavior. But there are also Vickers. She is not AI, but an ordinary, biological person. And she also despises her father (creator) and when Weyland dies, she like: "Finally!"

I see that you are working on a vision of RS. But RS is mistaken. Warning of the dangers of sub-creation, AI, free will? Paranoid, luddite nonsense! With such thinking, people would still live in dirty caves. If you create a creature with free will, knowledge and technology, but you are not a tyrant, but quite the opposite, then you obviously have nothing to worry about. But if you are cruel, then you really should beware!

Thus, a warning about the dangers of sub-creation discredits the creator, not creation at all.

I think that even the thought about "warning of the dangers of sub-creation" is offensive. Because it shifts guilt and responsibility to sub-creation in advance. And removes all blame from the creator himself.

And here we are miraculously returning to Prometheus! Are Engineers kind, smiling Space Gardeners? Did humanity disappoint or upset them? Or perhaps - did this cruel behavior of engineers make humanity like that? The more I think about it, the more I feel - David did the right thing when he destroyed the Engineers. Most likely they would not tolerate a competitor in the person of humanity, which is capable of space travel, terraforming, and already creating life. Most likely they would have killed David, Shaw, and then sent a team (or army) to destroy the Earth.

hox

Jul-13-2020 8:16 AM

David is a consumate liar, and you have to take everything he says with a very large pinch of salt. But when he said "Sometimes, in order to create, one must first destroy" I'm sure he absolutely believed that. He wanted to exterminate the Engineers just as much as he did humanity. He doubtless regarded them as a failed species in the same way he looked down on us.

When I think about the possibilities for future movies, my biggest concern is the audience itself. If I had half a billion dollars to spare I could make the scariest movie imaginable, full of intrigue, novelty and wonder set in an Alien/Engineer/Space Jockey universe. But I fear those who pull the purse strings are just too wary that modern audiences like their popcorn, superheroes and fizzy drinks. Nothing worse than an audience that has to go away and think about things.

BigDave

Jul-13-2020 10:55 AM

"It all depends on education. David said: "I think if we are kind, it will be a kind world""

Certainly i was mainly looking at it from the Creators POV ;)

I should have expanded upon HOW it effects the Creation. And so your Reply is something i have brought up quite a bit in the PAST, in that INDEED the Upbringing and Experiences can MOLD the SOUL if you would of a Intelligent being with Free-Will especially.

"I think if we are kind, it will be a kind world"

Had always been a Interesting Comment that David had made, i always looked into this Comment in Context to when RS had said the NEXT Movie would be about WHAT KIND of a World that David would Create.

I think some of these THEMES do Hold a Great Importance to what the Prequels were attempting to Cover.

I think its a GREAT point to mention about a KIND and Loving Creator.....  

Sometimes indeed a Creator is NOT really all that KIND and in Numerous Cases the Creator only Creates as a means to their OWN Self Need and Gratification.

Also with regards to Free-Will then your Creation can become Influenced in ways that would be AGAINST what the Creator would Expect....  

People can be Molded by their Environment and this has a MAJOR impact on how we TURN OUT.... but also with Free-will can bring Desire, Ambition, Selfishness.

Such Complex Nature is HUMAN Emotions, that NO MATTER how well you Program a A.I to be so Life-Like then Emotions and Experiences can really MESS UP a Human Mind...

Who knows WHAT they could do with a A.I that can Experience such Intense Emotions..

Its WHY i have felt that David was a Interesting Character he was SADLY a Product of his Environment of which his Treatment by Peter Weyland had MOLDED him into a Very Broken and Disturbed Boy.

If he had a Memory Wipe/Reset Switch and then was Brought up by Dr Shaw i am sure that David would have been Totally Different.

In Part i think Davids dislike towards Humans and Engineers does STEM from their Potential and WHAT we have done with it...  he would see himself as Superior and Strive to show he can DO BETTER.

I think he has learned of the Ways of Mankind and Engineers and seen that Fundamentally we are Wicked Species (but their is Good).

It is WHY i had been leaning towards maybe that David would want to Create his Own Humanoids.... and i dont think he would Necessarily be a CRUEL GOD... but i do think that IF his Creations would show signs of Rebellion then he would ACT in a way to Quell them.

This is WHY i Personally would have looked Forwards to a Sequel.........  I would Suspect that David could USE the Humans to SET-UP a Colony in Small Numbers... then he would DO AWAY with them....

Populate his OWN Creation (Enhance the Human Embryos) these Children would be RAISED to believe that David is their Creator and God......

THIS GOES TO POT!!!

When another Ship with Humans on who look similar but different to those Natives on Origae-6 that David Created.. and WHEN they see another being who MATCHES the likeness of their GOD and this TWIN goes on to say that David is NO GOD... and these Creations of David then Discover their TRUE origins (Human Embryos) and WHAT it is that David had done...

THEN the £%$& Hits the FAN!

Would all his Creations Turn on him?

With his Creations given this KNOWLEDGE.. and the Fear of the Threat and Rebellion... is WHEN it would be that DAVID would have to Unleash his WOLVES to Destroy his Wayward Lambs.

I had posted this Idea a LONG while back NOW... Many Months prior to the Announcement of Raised by Wolves... and i am Wondering is Raised by Wolves a case of RS taking such a Idea he maybe had.. and to Utilize it in a TV Show... thinking that their is LITTLE Chance he would be able to make a AC2 the way he would want?

The Problem is i am NOT sure most Fans would want to see such a Plot....

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

SuperAlien

Jul-13-2020 12:17 PM

BigDave, I would have liked to see the sequel to Alien Covenant. It would have been in the Alien universe, even if the film wouldn't have been focused on the xenomorph, I am sure there was something good in store for it, an evolution that started in Alien Covenant.

They should have allowed this film to happen.

"He survived, he’s now in Disneyland in Orlando, and no way am I going back there. How did he end up in Disneyland? I saw him in Disneyland, Jesus Christ!"

Thoughts_Dreams

Jul-13-2020 2:02 PM

BD

Creation might be interesting but it is too much about David, which I do not like. I am not interested in what kind of world that David will create because that means that it is still too much about him and I am tired of that. People can have different ideas about what they want to see but the way that Scott wants to take it is a direction that I have no interest to follow.

About a kind world, I have always looked at it as a world where David can rule free from competition, like a Mussolini. To me he is a fascist in the head and to people that say that he is not can you show something that supports otherwise? Judging from the movies I can not, to me that is what he is and why I can not support him.

"I think some of these THEMES do Hold a Great Importance to what the Prequels were attempting to Cover."

Okey but that would mean more robot stuff so no thanks. I have no interest in that what so ever.

"Who knows WHAT they could do with a A.I that can Experience such Intense Emotions.."

That kind of theme might not be worthless but keep it to another franchise. I do not want that in an Alien-movie, at least not with the focus on androids. Having more about the Engineers could be interesting, about their culture and so on. What kind of world a robot would want to create should be in another movie or franchise.

"... but i do think that IF his Creations would show signs of Rebellion then he would ACT in a way to Quell them."

Some people have the idea of a benevolent dictator even though I do not claim that you do, but that still does not justify it.

"The Problem is i am NOT sure most Fans would want to see such a Plot...."

It is still too much about an android, I don't want it.

BigDave

Jul-13-2020 3:14 PM

@Thoughts_Dreams

I think your Response is Quite fitting to what has become of the Prequels....

At some Point those who were WORKING on a Prequel had Felt that AS the Xenomorph was MERELY just ONE Horrific Experiment Created to Destroy and it had been SHOWN over and over... that ACTUALLY you never had to make a Prequel about them... KEEP it a Mystery.

Concentrate and Evolve the other Aspects about the Space Jockey Race and WHY they would Create such Horrors...

The intention being to STEER AWAY from ALIEN and thus having Prometheus as a BRIDGE... One Part of what had come from that Place (LV-223) would have gone and connected to ALIEN... but they are LEAVING that place to go off and STEER AWAY from LV-426

So the Intention was to NOT have Sequels become ALIEN Movies but a Spin-Off.  What these Sequels would have been about is NOT CLEAR... they had a Tough Time working on a Sequel idea between 2012-2014 with TWO Writers and a Rumored 8 Drafts...   It did appear the Movie would NOT revolve around Monsters though, not Completely... but that indeed Eventually at the Hands of David then Horrors would be BORN!  (likely NOT our Xenomorph though).

So i think its Likely that the Emphasis would have been on David still..... the Source i had from Early 2015 claimed that the Draft of October 2014 would have NOT been about Dr Shaw her Role was IMPORTANT but Small.

Until we see any Earlier Drafts then we are in the DARK!

However at some point in Spring 2015 those in CHARGE had decided to actually CONNECT to LV-426 by giving us a Sequel that will be a Series that would Eventually take us back to ALIEN and SHOW US those Answers in regards to LV-426.   And Uncover the Xenomorph Origins.

AT THIS POINT!...

Then it becomes a ALIEN MOVIE hence the Prefix of Alien: this did began slightly different with the Alien: Paradise Lost draft though.

The Problem is that WHILE they are going to give us the Xenomorph and its Origins... RS (maybe someone else) FELT that you still can USE the ARC of David but NOW you have him Create the Beast from ALIEN instead of something ELSE.

What they SHOULD have done was just to make a Prometheus 2 instead (Source claimed it was called Pandemonium) and ALIEN Fans... well if they wanted Xenomorphs then go and watch the Quadilogy or AVP.

I HOWEVER.... feel that should have First made another Movie that goes to LV-223 that is Very ALIENY that would Offer more clues to ALIEN and even have a Engineer.

This Movie could have CLOSED the DOOR to ALIEN.

Then RS could go and do what he wanted with where David and Dr Shaw were going... without being SHACKLED down by ALIEN and Explore more about the Engineers and Themes of Creation, Free-Will, Rebellion etc.  Also other Themes too like Immortality, the Quest for Perfection.

But ALAS...

Right now the Prequels are in a Pickle... because i am NOT sure and ESPECIALLY as its supposed to be a ALIEN PREQUEL then i dont think Fans want a Sci-Fi about A.I

If the Franchise was to Continue with AC2, AC3 then ALIEN then i think they have to BYPASS most of AC2 and so you arrive to the AFTERMATH of when WHAT KIND of a World that David tried to Create has gone to POT!

You instead have 1-2 Movies (a 2 Part Movie) that would bring the Engineers back and have them TAKE what remains of Davids WOLF and his LAMBS and Create from them the Superior Xenomorph we have in ALIEN.

What Happens prior to this in Effect AC3/AC4 (AC2) we leave to be covered in a NOVEL for those who wish to look at what David does and those who DONT.. can just SKIP by it.

Even this route WILL-NOT FIX it for everyone..

In HINDSIGHT... the Origins and Space Jockey should have remained a MYSTERY!

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

BigDave

Jul-13-2020 3:35 PM

I think and this is back to the OT

That with Disney we could see Eventually they could do a RETURN to the Franchise, but that to Continue with the Prequels would be a GAMBLE that could NOT pay off.

I think that AR was seen as a Abomination of the Queen and Ripley to many and so doing a Continuation from that would NOT be something that Fans would FLOCK too...

UNFORTUNATELY.....

I think they would go with a Scenario where ALIEN is Canon, and likely ALIENS.. and that Alien 3 and Alien R are indeed Dreams!

How does this WORK?  as far as do we keep to the same Formula and Vanilla Morph?  Can you REALLY give us a ALIEN V, ALIEN 6 and ALIEN 7 and Continue with Ripley and the Xenomorph Portrayed the same as it was in say ALIENS and AVP?

Maybe they bring the Space Jockey into it?  Maybe they could make the Prequels just be another NIGHTMARE of Ripleys from her Ordeal with ASH?

I think you DONT have to go that route!

Its a Question of would the General Population and Casual Fans and Fanboys.... ACCEPT a ALIEN Movie that would NOT have the Vanilla Morph?

I think you NEED it to Re-Introduce us to a ALIEN Movie but then you SOW the Seeds to have something Different in Sequels.

Then you WILL NOT go and please everyone... ALIEN was GREAT... Aliens was a Worthwhile Continuation.. leaving the MYSTERY...  The MYSTERY could have been GREATNESS if done RIGHT... but it was ALWAYS a Poisoned Chalice.

I am NOT sure you can EVER really make ALIEN Great again... but you Certainly can MILK it and Turn it into Starship Troopers.  (for anyone who takes Offense to that... by Milk it i mean a Repetition of the Xenomorph and GOD Forbid Avengers vs Aliens and such.

The UNKNOWN is what made ALIEN Great.... but we dont have that Unknown anymore and what has been SHOWN is Certainly NOT what most expected... when they First Saw ALIEN!

I think you can go with Xenomorph and Queens but you also have to ASK how Often can you get away with THAT.... before it becomes a Space Termite Jason Voorhees

But then would trying to Evolve Jason really be a Good Idea?  What make him Talk? etc NOPE! So maybe your best NOT trying to Change the Xenomorph too much!

So you then have to look at the Agenda of WHO wanted the Xenomorph and WHAT they AIM to gain... and Evolve the Story from this by Changing the Xenomorph a bit..

More likely we will see a HILL/GILER or Blomkamp Alien V or a AVP Reboot NEXT!

 

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

Chris

Jul-13-2020 6:23 PM

Great topic, as usual Big Dave!

Can Alien be GREAT again? I say yes, in the right hands. Will Alien be great again? That is the question and sadly, I have a conflicted opinion on that matter.

Alien has infinite potential to be great, but by who's definition do we define greatness as? For me - great would be exploring the answers to the questions posed in Promethus. Tie up loose ends, tell us what the hell happened on LV-223 after David and Shaw left. Tell us what happens after David takes control of the Covenent. Concludes David's arc but give us more backstory to the Engineers - show us their perspective a bit! To me, exploring the unknown is what intrigues me. The Alien is what scares me, but it's not what gets be excited to watch these films.

Will Alien be great again? Again, by what definition? Profitably speaking, yes Alien has no trouble making money and with Disney's endless pockets, I see great opportunity for this franchise to be properly milked. But, milking often cheapens the brand and the last thing I want to see is Alien becoming an eye-roll franchise that we all get sick of, reminiscing of the good ol' days of Alien: Resurrection (lol).

It seems SO simple to me, there are so many ideas to draw from, so much established lore to fleshed out, it baffles me there haven't been 3 Alien films made in advance like what Cameron has done with Avatar - and THAT franchise truly is being milked. It lacks all the intrigue Alien has - no mystery at all - and IT got 3 sequels?!

The dilema is - people are dumbing down. Popular cinema is no longer a medium to inspire thought and debate. It's no longer used to inspire creativity and self reflection. It's all about how cliche a picture can be, how cheap directors can get with the CGI to capitalize on established visuals and how much nostalgia they can squeeze out of aged actors and dated concepts blended with a mind-numbingly boring plot, bland characters and a cheap cop out to inspire nothing more than awe for the half-zombie movie goers of today, whose IQ is equivalent to that of a grape. The ones who appreciate Alien for what it is live on this forum, they're not people you would see at the theater on a mass scale and that's the problem.

Alien will be great for Disney's bottom line, they'll make sure of it. But will we, as passionate, intelligent, forward thinking fans be satisfied? Sadly, I highly doubt it. But I would LOVE to be proven wrong.

hox

Jul-14-2020 3:18 AM

You nailed it, Chris. My sentiments exactly.

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