Alien Movie Universe

Reload the Starbeast to help David, the xenomorph and the story
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MemberXenomorphOct-17-2018 7:02 AM

There was an adroid in every film of the Alien franchise and nobody complained about Ash, Bishop and Call. What's wrong with David?

I think most people were upset by the fact that David wiped out the engineers, created the xenomorph and killed Shaw in between. That was a little too much from an android.

David as the creator of the xenomorph bothers me a little, too. To fix that, in a sequel to Covenant, I would wake up Walter and have him explore the dead city of the engineers and beyond,  until he would find a pyramid whose interior would be heavily decorated with murals describing a xenomorph life-cycle, a race that inhabited the planet long before it was chosen to become a home world for a new civilization, that of the engineers  There would be no eggs in the pyramid because they were loaded in the hold of a strange looking ship and sent away for safety reason (that would be described in a more recent mural added by the engineers), a Juggernaut that was never seen again. The ancient murals of the xenomorph race would also depict their creation story, where a biomechanical bird-like god gave birth to the first xenomorph by ingesting some black goo from a kind of vial that remembered Walter of the vials seen in David’s lab. Some of the recently added murals would show a deadly battle between engineers and the bird-like creatures whom were defeated and the engineers then sacked their world and carried off huge quantities of plunder among which certain ampoules. Another mural, or fresco, likely the most recent of them, showed the arrival of a discoidal ship and an engineer drinking from a cup, next to a waterfall.

But if Walter was torn to pieces and unable to walk again, I would let David tell the story to a mutated but beautiful creature, like the one depicted in Giger's mural above, slightly resembling Daniels. She opens her eyes slowly, with no memories, awake from a strange dream and feeling alive, chosen, unique. She sees David smiling besides her, waiting patiently for her first words. She speaks softly: "Am I...?" "Perfect?" (David ending the sentence for her).

What do you think?

"He survived, he’s now in Disneyland in Orlando, and no way am I going back there. How did he end up in Disneyland? I saw him in Disneyland, Jesus Christ!"

15 Replies


MemberDeaconOct-17-2018 8:01 AM

I certainly think introducing some History to introduce another Species is something to get the Franchise back on a more ALIENY Aesthetic

Our Engineers are being relegated to being more Ancient Humanoid, rather than those in Prometheus.  And yet those beings on Planet 4 are referred to as the Originals.

The Creator/Creation Plot is more evident in these prequels... LV-223 had a lot of Mystery that Planet 4 provided little to explain!

Regardless of the route taken with the Xenomorph, we are still left with the Organisms being related to the Black Goo which is related to Mutations that have a very Xenomorph/Deacon and Neomorph Aesthetic

The Derelict Aesthetic was a little more Organic than the Juggernaught, and we could see there appeared to be a related Aesthetic between the Derelict and the Xenomorph.

HR Gigers Mural which the Topic Poster Shows, seems to indicate a shape of the Derelict that is in the Aesthetic of the Xenomorph which implies they are Connected, it appears this ship Produces the Eggs.... hence the Genetic Connection if you will.   HR Giger envisioned the Ships were GROWN and that the Cargo Hold/Egg Silo actually Produced the Eggs via Huge Pregnant Bio-Mechanical Belly like apparatuses and in the Vicinity of these are where the MURAL was to be located.

What we have with the MURAL is what look like Humanoids in Space Suits not too dissimilar to the Space Jockey/Engineers and in other Concept work by HR Giger it is revealed these beings are BALD Humanoids.

I think maybe we need to get back to looking at HR Gigers works....  and ASK ourselves WHY are these Humanoids Sacrificing themselves to Procreated these Organisms?

what role do they play (Humanoids) are they the Masters and Creators of those Ships and WHY do they Procreate these Organisms?  Now Prometheus explores this loosely... but it appears in a way that they have Engineered or Experimented on such Organisms...

But when we look at HR Gigers Mural we have to ask could we interpret it in another way.... are those Humanoids being used as some kind of Sacrifice by some other Species/Purpose and they are merely Servants/Slaves or is the relationship somewhat beneficial to those Humanoids...  ARE they in some kind of Symbiotic Covenant with the Creators of those Ships? Or are these Ships a Creation of those Humanoids?

Exploring these Humanoids as Lower on the Level of Hierarchy and being Subjugated by some-other being or species would allow for the Introduction of something more ALIEN something more Related to the STARBEAST

A Bio-Mechanical Species that requires a HOST to Procreate like the STARBEAST would need to have suitable HOSTS to SURVIVE.  And then we could ask does a Intelligent Humanoid Host make for a better HOST for the Starbeast Species?

Are these Humanoids (Engineers) created by the Starbeast, or a Race encountered that are then used as more ideal Sacrifices...  DO those Humanoids owe the STARBEAST a Dept... which is repaid by the offering of Sacrifice?

This kind of PLOT will fit with the Prometheus Themes.... especially if we go the route that eventually some of those Humanoids managed to ESCAPE the Bondage that their Masters had over them...   They Rebel, overthrow the STARBEAST and then begin to Re-engineer/Steal the Starbeasts Technology.... the Stealing of the FIRE.

What a Hubris this was for the STARBEAST in using a Host that has the ability to be Intelligent and Sentient and then Rebel!

The same Hubris Replicated by the Creation of Mankind, by those Humanoids, and Replicated by Mankind in the Creation of Androids (David).

This FITS the Themes of Prometheus, it connects to the Plot of STARBEAST  and connects to HR Gigers Mural and Concepts, and gives us a Background to the Bio-Mechanical Technology and Origins of the Xenomorph like Aesthetics that the Black Goo and Derelict have.

This is the kind of Plot Twist i had intended for my Prometheus sequels back in 2013-14 and i think using something like this to a degree is the ideal way to introduce something more ALIEN as the Origins of the Derelict Technology and Black Goo Aesthetic

Only the STARBEAST does not have to be a Xenomorph Knock off...

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017


MemberDeaconOct-17-2018 8:32 AM

Somethings that were never cleared up from Prometheus were the Fresco Organism which had a Aesthetic like the Xenomorph but also above the Doors to the Big Head Room and the Mural we see that Skull Like Part of the Archway. 

Why that kind of Imagery?  To me it reminds me a bit of a TURTLE and one idea i was going to expand on with my ideas regarding introducing a Starbeast Element, was to maybe introduce the Cosmic/World Turtle into the FOLD..

A Giant Bio-Mechanical Turtle like Ship, where this Ship would Produce the Derelicts and Eggs (not Xenomorph) but various Eggs that are used for other Purposes... (Cosmic Egg Theory) where these are HOW Worlds are created, EVERYTHING...  I did not have to take it so far or deep... but that Skull above those Doors in Prometheus does remind me of a Turtle to a degree..  The World Turtle and Egg Ideas are part of a number of Creation Mythos.

I am not saying we should go this route, but i think we could ponder that any Starbeast like Species would NOT have to resemble the Xenomorph too much... but maybe it could resemble the Fresco or those Doorways?

Dan O'Bannons idea for the Starbeast before deciding with RS to go for a design inspired by HR Gigers works, actually looked a bit like the Fresco Creature.

Artist T-Rex Jones came up with this interpretation of the Fresco Creature which indeed looks a bit like O'Bannons Starbeast Concept.


I am not saying this is what we should go with... but that i think it would be interesting to introduce a Bio-Mechanical Species as the Origin to the Technology and that this Species while it should have some Bio-Mechanical Aesthetic it does not mean we have to have something that is VERY CLOSE to the Xenomorph.

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017


MemberXenomorphOct-17-2018 8:56 AM

I thought more of Ron Cobb's pyramid than the egg silo. The egg should be just for the long storage of the facehugger embryos, an organic sort of alien incubator, that can be replaced by the incubator on board Covenant (we see David placing the two alien embryos next to the human embryos). For this reason I don't see the necessity of a silo with pregnant bellies laying eggs, all the more of a gigantic ant egg laying queen.

As for the host, it doesn't have to be humanoid or intelligent,  just a living organism.

Xenomorph race and engineers could have been created by the same higher beings, the biomechanical bird-like creature, as antagonists. Those bird-like creatures could have created the Juggernauts and the black goo, and they were ultimately defeated by engineers  (as shown in the changing fresco from Prometheus).

"He survived, he’s now in Disneyland in Orlando, and no way am I going back there. How did he end up in Disneyland? I saw him in Disneyland, Jesus Christ!"


MemberXenomorphOct-17-2018 5:01 PM

Speaking about the mural in Prometheus, in it's negative enhanced version the xenomorph vanishes completely, the result reminds me of H.R. Giger's Necronomicon:

"He survived, he’s now in Disneyland in Orlando, and no way am I going back there. How did he end up in Disneyland? I saw him in Disneyland, Jesus Christ!"


MemberTrilobiteOct-17-2018 5:25 PM

To the OP- There was an android in every film of the Alien franchise and nobody complained about Ash, Bishop and Call. What's wrong with David?

It seems that David's role was put to the forefront more than the androids of the Quadrilogy, for good or bad. I like the David/Walter dynamic but the last two movies feel like the overall franchise has lost direction and focused too much on the android side. 

What seems really different is that the Quadrilogy had solid characters while the prequels both had forgettable cast members who were there to die- one died in AC without even being shown save for a flashback scene.  


MemberXenomorphOct-17-2018 6:16 PM

"The Last Supper" should have been included in the film together with other deleted scenes, but even so I still wonder why they picked James Franco for such a role. 

I don't think Alien Covenant had forgetable characters, maybe it's my fault for seeing the film so many times.

"He survived, he’s now in Disneyland in Orlando, and no way am I going back there. How did he end up in Disneyland? I saw him in Disneyland, Jesus Christ!"


MemberTrilobiteOct-17-2018 6:25 PM

Last Supper was deceptive- it suggested we would see a tight nit group with lots of personality and then we got nothing. Franco probably won't even bother adding it to his resume- "Alien Covenant Captain, only dialogue is in a flash back, and in the movie is shown as a piece of charcoal with boots".


MemberXenomorphOct-18-2018 5:48 AM

 Yes. I'd take the story in that direction.


I'd have Walter and David visit the original derelict on LV426. Have David bring up the orrery. The planetary system would be red in color. (not the Prometheus blueish)

Walter "A time of war"

There would find no eggs, just the chestburst SJ and the hole in the floor.

They would enter the hole to find a massive alien webbed to the roof of the chamber.

Before they wake the alien....they would view the ship logs and watch what took place 2000 years ago.


MemberDeaconOct-18-2018 8:12 AM

"I thought more of Ron Cobb's pyramid than the egg silo"

Interesting as before HR Giger came on board the Ancient Species of the Starbeast was indicated to be a Culture not to dissimilar to our Planet 4 Engineers, by that it explored very Ancient looking Architecture that housed some Chamber that had a very Ritualistic purpose.

The interesting thing with Ron Cobb's concept was that the Chest Buster Organism does resemble the Adult Trilobite in Prometheus to a degree, the concept work for the Face Hugger from Starbeast is not too dissimilar from the aborted Trilobite Fetus.   Prometheus borrowed a number of unused elements from Starbeast.

The Sacrificed Organism, has what looks like Mandibles like  ANT but then it could also be a representation of a similar Organism to Dan O'Bannons Starbeast Concept.

The Fresco in Prometheus is interesting as it seems to show the Creature in a Submissive Pose, but it is also a Fetal Pose too, so its very open to interpretation, i notice what could be seen as a Scar on the Engineer around his lower Ribs and also the look on his Face reminds me of the Prometheus Punishment Fresco.

The Mural when negative enhanced is interesting...

As i can make out a number of Faces/Heads of Organisms, which include Birdlike, BabyHead Alien like, and even like Wolf-like.

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017


MemberDeaconOct-18-2018 8:22 AM

I think with the Derelict being kept as Ancient and yet trying to keep to the same Plot as Alien Covenant could raise a few problems especially regarding the ADVENT Video.

Once the company Received this Video, you would expect them to send out a mission to investigate LV-223 and they should discover anything on LV-426 and any ship that wonders close surely cant miss Dr Shaws SOS and the Space Jockey SOS.

So on one hand having the Derelict NOT being on LV-426 at the time of Alien Covenant in the year 2105 would cover up WHY no signal was detected on LV-426 (i know there was in the Weyland Viral Marketing for Prometheus, but its if this counts as Canon now).

I just think that introducing another species is something that i think could be used to explain the Space Jockey.

I think daliens going a route that some other species created the Xenomorph or a Earlier Version and the Engineers or their Ancestors would be a wise move.

I think the BIG Question to be asking regarding the STARBEAST if we go back to this kind of Plot would be ARE these beings confined to the same Life-Cycle that the Starbeast and Xenomorph had?    If they are then we maybe have to ask WHY would they create another Sub-species like the Xenomorph that is tied to the same Procreation Restraints as themselves?

A Xenomorph like Creation may fit more by having the Engineers attempt to Re-Create something in the Image/DNA of their Old Masters.

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017


MemberDeaconOct-26-2018 7:59 AM

I think that introducing the Starbeast Element of the Starbeast could be interesting but we have to consider HOW we actually tackle this and portray the Starbeast.

The Starbeast was the Name of the Draft/Story that ALIEN was latter based off, where the Organism Encountered with a VERY similar Life-Cycle to the Xenomorph was called the Starbeast. Essentially the Starbeast evolved into what became our Xenomorph but there are a number of changes between the Xenomorph and Starbeast that we have to consider.

While both Organisms Shared the same Parasitic Life Cycle  Egg/Spore ==> Face Hugger Parasite ==> Chest Buster Juvenile ==> Adult Organism, that after this the Adult Organism could Mutate/Evolve a Host into the Egg/Spore Stage.

The Starbeast was inferred to us as being at some-point a Civilized Ritualistic Alien Species who had (so it appeared) constructed Pyramid Complexes that would House the Egg/Spore stage of their Species, and there would be Rooms where they would Sacrifice Organisms (Hosts) to Procreate their Species and these Rooms were Decorated with Murals that depicted the Alien Organisms Life-Cycle and Stages and the whole Procreation Process/Ritual and had a Religious/Historical look to other Murals/Pictograms and also had Sacrificial Tables.

Would introducing something like this to the Xenomorph actually work? or Introducing a Species that would fit the Starbeast Plot but look a lot like the Xenomorph?


Upon looking at the Ritual Sacrifice Chamber we see the Sacrificial Table and Doorway appear to be HUGE and both appear as though they would be the right size for some Organism that is 12-15ft Mark (we can assume the Hosts) but then for the Table to be so high, the Starbeasts must also have been over 10ft Tall too (makes sense if their hosts are Large).

But the thing is IF we introduce something like the STARBEAST it does-not have to match what Dan'O'Bannons Story or Concept work shows, and so while we could introduce a Ritualistic Sacrificial Chamber, the Sacrificial Table does not have to be as Large or High.

The other difference is the Aesthetic of the Starbeast which went through many designs...  which however the draft had described as looking like a Octopus at Face Huger Stage, concept work also matched this, the Chest Buster Stage was described like a Worm but shown in the Mural to be again a Cephalopod looking Organism and then the Adult stage was described as having Arms/Legs a Head but also having Tentacles and so looked Quite different to our Xenomorph, i am not sure some of the Concept/Idea work for Starbeast would be very fitting as some designs looked odd.

We did see Alien Engineers trying to replicate the design of the Starbeast with the Infection to Holloway (Cephalopod type Face Hugger and Chest Buster) and with Prometheus we see Dr Shaws Aborted Trilobite Fetus has a appearance similar to the Starbeast Face Hugger and the Grown Trilobite looks similar to the Depicted Starbeast in the Mural for Starbeast.

Some designs/concepts do look odd and in NO-WAY suits the Starbeast, but the Cephalopod types (Octopus/Squid) do have that touch of HP Lovecraft to them.

Here we see some of the Concept work for Starbeast was used in the Original ALIEN prequel idea (Alien Engineers) as far as Holloways Fate.

While these seem to fit more with some of the concept (Mural) in Starbeast, would such designs really fit a Alien Species that are Intelligent and some-what Civilized?

So i feel if we explored the STARBEAST and introduced something as far as a Intelligent Alien Species i feel we need to do something Different to the Xenomorph, yet some of the Starbeast Concepts and Prometheus/Alien Engineers ones are not quite fitting for a Alien Species that can Build Pyramids and Technology.  And so i think maybe we need something that is a AMALGAMATION of Designs something that Merges a HR Giger Aesthetic with a HP Lovecraftian Aesthetic but also has some Humanoid Aesthetics to it.

Does anyone agree?


R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017


MemberXenomorphOct-26-2018 11:29 AM

Absolutely BigDave!

I'd go with ghostly translucent human types...extremely intelligent. Earthlings would be ants to them. They use mind control. BUT on a scientific level. Engineers were there children and we are the Engineers children. 

We are the result of inbreeding aliens.


I might try to sketch something.....


MemberDeaconSep-11-2019 5:13 PM

More Enhanced Images of Dan O'Bannon's Starbeast idea.  We can see from the Full Image which i Enhanced a bit on the Left, that the Creature was similar to Ron Cobb’s Effort at the Bottom as far as its Anatomy to a degree.

I think the Bi-Pedal like Xenomorph we got was better as far as Design, but maybe a Amalgamation could be used for the STARBEAST.

There was ONE Concept for Alien Covenant well Prometheus 2 or was it Alien 5?  That had Praying Mantis like Appendages that was Bipedal but i cant seem to Locate it.

I would like to see some of O'Bannon's Concept introduced into the Franchise if they Explore something NEW.

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017


MemberTrilobiteSep-11-2019 6:06 PM

I haven't seen Star Beast. At this point, why should I?


MemberDeaconSep-12-2019 7:28 AM

I think there are some Elements of the Starbeast Story that has yet to be fully used in any of the Franchise Movies, Prometheus borrowed some Elements of it...........

The Franchise had seemed to indicate and Ridley Scott, that our Xenomorph was just a Engineered Bio-Weapon, nothing more and nothing less.....

So we have some fans who felt the Xenomorph in ALIEN was more than the Animalistic Beast that the Rest of the Franchise seemed to indicate.....

I think its past the Point to show the Xenomorph from ALIEN as being Greatly Different to the rest of the Franchise and that INTRODUCING something else, to have some of the Ideas about a more Intelligent, Self-Aware Alien could be explored by using the UNUSED ideas from STARBEAST.

So we could Speculate the Engineers had encountered the Remnants of a Alien Species Civilization or Birthing Place, and they then took the Spore Cycle of this Alien Species as the Foundation to their Experiments that became the Black Goo.

I think if we ever go that route, then WHY NOT have something that is Different and so is not a COPY of the Xenomorph, not in the sense of being too close to it.... and i think O'Bannon's Starbeast Concept is something to explore.

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

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