The Mutagenic Pathogen and the Parasites Bursting from the Dying Engineers

great content. i am a fan of the "one goo" which this also supports i guess ?

The only issue is that the engineers are the only ones who have these parasites coming out of their bodies instantly almost and are you saying this is due to the amount ingested ? 

i think it is a stretch to think that the result is closely linked to the engineer death and deacon entrance ? 

are you saying the engineers died in that way as that is how the pathogen destroys that particular life form ? so humans suffering the same rain down of the pathogen would produce different effects on humans ????

sherris - Thanks!

I think it's a remarkable summary which explains every event in Prometheus and Alien Covenant:

Pathogen ---> Host ---> Death

Pathogen ---> Host ---> Mutation

Pathogen ---> Host ---> Hybridized creatures are produced (trilobites, insect-like motes, parasites) ---> Host again ---> Xenomorph-like hybridized creatures are produced (deacon, neomorph)

'the "one goo" which this also supports i guess' -- Yes!

'this is due to the amount ingested' - Yes, but we should take into consideration the DNA Reflex thing mentioned in the text.

'so humans suffering the same rain down of the pathogen would produce different effects on humans ????' - Probably yes, but I'm sure sudden death is obvious and some kind of parasite will occur but we don't know this situation since the movies haven't shown that possibility yet, and again the DNA Reflex can be a significant factor...

sherris - Only the summary chart was created by me, the text was edited from the source site.

Sacrifice Engineer:

Lv-223 Engineers: there are holes everywhere on their bodies, arms, legs, head, etc.

The exploding Engineer head:

Planet 4 Engineers:

More or less, we see the same process...

Ati -

This, for me, is without doubt the theory  that i am most happy about.

i tried for some time to make sense of it all. what is relevant ? what about this/that etc..

it ticks all the boxes for me. based on the evidence at hand that we have. perhaps someone will find a personal flaw but i am well happy with it.

it has all the answers and has enough to debate any area of the theory/evidence

great post Ati !!

sherris - Thank you very much, I agree with you, the chart above can explain everything in my opinion.

Ati - 

The sacrificial engineer kind of nails it. There is without question some relevance to his demise and the Planet 4 event.

That is real evidence for me after looking through it. awesome

sherris - And I think that the holes on the Engineer cryo pods are not caused by Deacon bursts but they are the result of parasites bursting from their bodies:

The burst can be so intensive that it breaks the top of the cryo pod - similar result is the holes on the Engineer suits:

Plus, I don't claim that the LV-223 Engineers are not escaping from a Deacon in the hologram scene, but it is possible (and more probable) that they are running away from an infected and mutated fellow Engineer - similarly to the scene where the mutated Fifield attacks the crew members.

Hmm just thought of something, perhaps one of the engineers, or the two who's cryopods are blown open, managed to get the liquid on to themselves without realizing it

They left the pressure/atmosphere sensitive room (Like the ampule room), at which point it atomized (As David says it does) when it came into contact with the air inside the juggernaut or tunnels in the pyramid

Not realising they were now infected (Like the two humans on Paradise) they went into statis, but they birthed two...."somethings", which is what you hear in the recording.

But, that still doesn't explain why the bodies were piled up against a door/wall or why/how their heads were blown out and how they got infected too.

Maybe the scream we heard in the recording wasn't a xeno after all, but the screams of the engineers whos heads were exploding.

AdamPD - 'But, that still doesn't explain why the bodies were piled up against a door/wall or why/how their heads were blown out and how they got infected too.'

I think Alien Covenant explains the why the bodies were piled up. We see the same during the bombing scene and later when the crew enters the plaza at the huge doors: they were escaping but weren't able to get out in time.

It is probable that infected Lv-223 Engineers were not able to enter the room because other Engineers had closed the door.

AdamPD - 'Maybe the scream we heard in the recording wasn't a xeno after all, but the screams of the engineers whos heads were exploding.'

Exciting possibility!

As for the scream in the recording, we do not know what it is. Is it a scream? I'm not sure. I compared the 'screams' and I think that the Deacon scream is different.

A relevant question: why do we hear only that 'scream' at the beginning of the recording? Why don't the Engineers shout or speak in the recording? They are running but we don't hear their steps. Strange!

This is spot on the money. I've been saying this in various forms for weeks now. The Deacon is basically just a Neomorph when you break it down this way (if you watch Prometheus in HD, you see that it is "blue" because of the lighting reflecting off of the blood on its flesh; it's actually a grayish color). Alien: Covenant shows us why different parts of the Engineers were blown out: the Neomorphs can bust out of different cavities (back, throat, head). I'd like to think that the crew arrives finding the aftermath of a Neomorph/Deacon (same thing) outbreak in Prometheus. 

Side note, if you look at David's illustrations in Covenant's Blu-ray extras, you find two different variants of the creature: the "bumpy head" which looks like the Covenant Neomorphs, and the smooth head (or something) and it looks very much like the Deacon 

Ati, I don't agree at all that this is the same form of the pathogen that we saw infect Holloway or Fifield, but I completely agree that this is the same form that wiped out the Engineers of LV-223 and the revived head that exploded. It was, after all, what they were supposed to be taking to Earth.

Here is another nice head pop from Covenant.

Rewatching the bombing scene in HD and pausing to see some of the scenery that the camera flies around and through as the "Engineers" are all exploding with black tentacle things, you can see the horror/pain in their faces.  Crazy good scene to see all of this in high detail.

I'm with you all on the one black goo theory.  Davi has said that the effects are different in every organism, meaning with just the one goo, you could technically get every result we have seen in all of the movies from the same goo, just reacting differently with different organisms.  And the ingestion amount also seems to make a difference.  This is plenty evidence for me to believe that all of the different outcomes from the goo are just due to the organism, and how it was ingested. I see that as also meaning that you might get similar results from two different types of infections.

It sounds like a way to simplify all of the mystery around the black goo, by saying you could get any result from it, or you could get the same result (like the two neomorphs).  I don't mind that part of it being simplified.  It doesn't make it's origin any less mysterious, and it gives the franchise more freedom to expand without having to come up with an explanation for how different goos were created for different effects.  Gets too messy, no pun intended.

Thnaks for posting the breakdown chart as well.  It was a lot easier to comprehend than some of the infographic charts out there lol.

A L I E N 4 2 6 - 'The Deacon is basically just a Neomorph when you break it down this way' - Yes, I think you're right. We could say that. They both belong to the final group, the group of the Xenomorph-like hybridized creatures.

Kethol - 'I don't agree at all that this is the same form of the pathogen that we saw infect Holloway or Fifield'

Ok! I see your point. This is my opinion: people, fans, etc over-explain the Holloway infection because of the sexual factor. I strongly believe that the fact that he had sex with Shaw is not so important. In the mirror scene we see the small trilobite in his eye, and I think that he would have given birth to the bigger trilobite if he had not passed it to Shaw. Do you remember the concept art showing the trilobite bursting out from Holloway?

So I think he just passed it to Shaw. No sperm, no egg cells were involved in the process... The trilobite belongs to the group of the Hybridized creatures.

drucea - 'I'm with you all on the one black goo theory.' 'Thnaks for posting the breakdown chart as well.  It was a lot easier to comprehend than some of the infographic charts out there lol.'

Thank you very much! I'm glad that there are more members here who mention that the chart is useful.

'Do not overcomplicate it.' - that should be our key idea. (It is complex and complicated enough!) :D 

@Ati - "Ok! I see your point. This is my opinion: people, fans, etc over-explain the Holloway infection because of the sexual factor. I strongly believe that the fact that he had sex with Shaw is not so important."

Possibly, but the writers have implied it does have to do with sex. Damon Lindelof said this - "this is what happens when an android gets involved in ‘fertilizing’ something that was invented by The Engineers with a human host which then has sex with another human who gives birth to an offspring that recombines with The Engineer". "Let’s put mankind’s creators, mankind, and the beings mankind created all in the same room together, and have them screw and see what comes out." On the Blu Ray commentary John Spaith's said this right after Shaw and Holloway had sex - "It is interesting to see the alien franchises built in sexualization of menace play out in different fronts...that sexualization, the rape and pregnancy is what makes the monster so scary...you see an alien mutagen become a sexually transmitted disease...the primogenitor chest burster was conceived by the love of a man and a woman."

Ridley said on the Blu Ray commentary that "the union can only be from this - the embryo" - as Shaw and Holloway start to have sex. Later he says "She's pregnant".

"In the mirror scene we see the small trilobite in his eye, and I think that he would have given birth to the bigger trilobite if he had not passed it to Shaw. Do you remember the concept art showing the trilobite bursting out from Holloway?"

Yes, but that was from Spaiths version of the script. He said on the Blu Ray commentary that Holloway was implanted with an alien when he was face hugged in his version. That's what happens in the leaked draft of his script too. That white worm chest burster design evolved into what was used as the trilobite in Lindelofs rewrites, but the intent in Lindelof's rewrites was totally different than Spaiths.

Interestingly, in Lindelof's final draft, there is no eye worm or reference to worms inside Holloway at all. He just looks sick and has a fever. He starts to transform and enlarge just before he was killed, so I think the original idea was that he was mutating in the same manner as Fifield.

The shape change stuff was dropped and the worm stuff was added later to make Holloway's infection different. I don't think the eye worm was intended to be the trilobite Shaw gave birth to either. There is a photo of a makeup test of a late stage Holloway with dozens of those small worms protruding from his face, so I think they were just intended to be parasites resulting from the pathogen infection, but it is all purposely left ambiguous.

Kethol - We say the same. :) --- 'you see an alien mutagen become a sexually transmitted disease' --- Exactly! Yesterday I nearly added that it behaves like an STD. :) It is passed, but it does not mean that the result is produced by sexual organs!

'the primogenitor chest burster was conceived' - I do believe that this phrase is not used by him directly. This expression is a brilliant example to the phenomenon I had mentioned previously: we tend to overexplain every word uttered by him/them. We see too much in these comments.

'She's pregnant.' - The same. :)

'the worm stuff was added later to make Holloway's infection different' - Why does it make different? It does not make it different. It fits the chart.

eye worm = small trilobite

Shaw's baby = middle-sized trilobite

monster raping the last Engineer = huge, adult trilobite

The trilobite is a parasite. It is in the group of the Hybridized creatures.

'There is a photo of a makeup test of a late stage Holloway with dozens of those small worms protruding from his face'

-- I know. But that is not a problem for me! The best wins! On the other hand, you mentioned that only the movie counts. And there is only one in the movie. :)

'intended to be parasites resulting from the pathogen infection'

Exactly! :) worm = a kind of parasite = trilobite (As I mentioned previously.) These are three different names used to describe the same creature. Three stages of its growth are revealed in Prometheus, and, beyond doubt, this fact can be confusing.

@Ati - "'the primogenitor chest burster was conceived' - I do believe that this phrase is not used by him directly."

Listen to the commentary track.  "the primogenitor chest burster was actually conceived by the love of a man and a woman" is exactly what Spaiths said. He actually said primogenitor first, then primogenital, which I thought was kind of funny.

"Kethol - We say the same. :)"

Well, no, not really. You think the eye worm parasite is the trolibite. I do not. When something is not clearly explained in the movie, I always look to the scripts, film maker comments, and cut scenes or concepts that were not used to determine the intent. That unused/cut makeup test of Holloway with the worms coming out of his face tells me that he was infected with hundreds of parasites. 

"On the other hand, you mentioned that only the movie counts. And there is only one in the movie. :)"

No, not me. You may be thinking of something someone else said.