A Better Fate for Shaw?7,400 Views36 RepliesAdd A Reply
David, overall, is very much an antagonist in Spaihts’ Alien: Engineers script. At first, he still serves the same function he does in the film: he decodes the alien hieroglyphs and quickly grasps the Engineer technology, and he still rescues Shaw after she is swept away in the storm, but by the midpoint he starts to display contempt for the human crew and, in one scene with Shaw, he reveals a hidden agenda:
David: I was given two operating protocols for this mission. I was to render you every assistance – until you discovered what Vickers would call a “game-changing technology.” I was given a specific list. Then I was to go to protocol two […] Under protocol two I was to make sure that you and Holloway never spoke to anyone about this place. Various acceptable ways of making sure of that.
When he finally assaults Shaw he does so with palpable malice, and when he gives chase he “runs like a demon, his legs steel pistons.” When he captures her it is in a grip akin to “iron manacles”. He then impregnates her with Alien spore. Interestingly, when the facehugger emerges, David strokes it gently – the facehugger ignores his touch and reaches for Shaw.
Is it possible to bring back Shaw in a Covenant sequel in a believable way?
just don't see how. cloning has been done. an offspring if done right but I just don't see how shaw herself can come back in a way that wont be torn to pieces by fans. not meaning that in a negative way against the fans, just I don't see any way that they can put an original and believable idea on screen
You're right, but some flashback scenes could work.
yes definitely. I liked the character of shaw. I feel she brought something different in a female lead to the story and thought she made for a stronger character than daniels. I think the general feeling is for a flash back in length of her crossing with david and to see how she meets her fate, whether it be at davids hands or the remnants of the black goo. I for one don't think david was the one that actually killed her, more believes he is letting her live on through his creations.
I dont think David kills Shaw.When Daniels asks him what you did to her he answers the same thing im going to do to you.And then he kisses her.Maybe David kissed Shaw?
think he may have been trying to put one of those embryos inside her?
I wonder if they have filmed some extra scenes or something similar to "The Crossing" only describing more of what went on?
For instance, the cir***stances that lead up to the signal being transmitted by Shaw in the pilot chair.
What David learns of "their ways" or even the whole truth on Shaws demise.
My thoughts are that N.R was on set for a few weeks and a few things came out suggesting she had a minor role, but really she wasnt even in the film. So that is where my hope comes from. The fact she was supposedly on set 2 or 3 weeks. I dont know much about the industry but if you work on a tight schedule as they do, then a lot could be achieved in that time.
Take This.... This is the blood of our lord
I know how she could be brought back! The vivisected Shaw we saw on the table could have been a clone of her (with accelerated growth rate). Maybe David made and experimented on a few Shaw clones.
The real Shaw has still been alive somewhere this whole time.
(Next can someone come up with a better fate for Bishop?)
@Vivisected --- why not? That sounds totally plausible. At least as plausible as Space faring scientists taking off their helmets in unknown atmospheres...
In the very least David tortured Shaw, it says as much in the Novel and artist instagram.com/matthatt0n says he was told the same, read through his posts to get an idea of David's mindset. It's very bleak. (You'll have to pick through the posts, I can't link the exact one where he says it)
sherries im guessing that would have included filming the prologue and Take me home country roads clips?
VivisectedEngineer that's a very neat solution! Her demise seems empty and hollow, and sadly I think that's all we ever get, but Id definitely be open to your solution.
Thanks!! It makes sense, right?? After all, David is into genetic engineering. Plus, consider all those sketches! "Shaw" mutilated in a variety of mutually exclusive ways.
So far we've assumed that assortment of sketches indicated David's potential plans as he sort of thought "...decisions, decisions..."
But, maybe all of them actually did happen. Multiple Shaw clones: multiple experiments. (...Come to think of it...is this a happier solution?? Well, at least according to this theory our Dr. Shaw might still be alive, lol).
Maybe someone could at least write it up in a fan fiction. A lot of characters in the Alien universe seem to get empty and hollow demises! (Aliens was doing it way before Game of Thrones made it cool!)
Empty and Hollow demises never used to bother me at all, but lately I find myself trying to contrive some happier resolutions. I guess it's hormonal.
Also, IRaptus, was it you who recommended American Psycho to me? Someone on this forum recommended it. I watched it and rather liked it.
VivisectedEngineer yeah that would make total sense! All the sketches = various cloned Shaw experiments.
I'd love to do the fanfiction for it, but I don't like using other peoples characters. But Im sure someone on here could, and should, go for it ;) ;)
I don't think it is was me who suggested American Psycho in this case. But I have seen it, it's a great insight to how psychopaths operate and think....I'm assuming this relates to David's psyche?? Good film!
VivisectedEngineer - Facehuggers recommended the movie, and I mentioned that my uni thesis is about books by Ellis. But my fav is The Informers.
Well, if anyone out there wants to use my idea for a fan fiction, please feel free to do so!! Lol, yes, David is very Patrick Bateman-esque.
Oooh! Must have been an interesting topic to research. ...Wish I could write a thesis on the Alien universe, lol. I haven't seen Facehuggers around here much lately??
Shaw is dead, hell yeah! I despised her character because she was naïve and lacked common sense. One of the things that AC did right was to kill her outside of the movie.
Hopefully they won't make a Ripley and clone her because then we would have to endure her for one more round. It would annoy me if they would get her character in any other movie other than maybe a cameo.
Daniels was better because at least she wasn't naïve or stupid. They got to develop her character a lot better in the next movie because she was sort of anonymous (didn't have a very well-developed character) in AC.
I think indeed the way they dealt with Shaw was bad, ok we see she is Dead, with no real explanation but i dont think they did much homework as far as just leaving her Corpse that somehow looks very fresh and her Chest Cavity open with what appears to be a lot of her Organs Removed.
I am sure they at least could have shown us a more sinister Fate for her, rather than what looks like She had been used to Gestate some kind of Organism, and then had her Re-productive Organs used.
With no real HR Giger/Engineer Technology involved was a bit of a Cop Out....
As far as not seeing Dr Shaw, i dont think we will ever see her again, even in Flash Backs. I know this may disappoint some but i dont think we would ever cover her again apart from dialog from David
I understand her Character was a bit Naive, with her Faith etc, but i have come across some very Religious people who are way more Naive than she is. I think Noomi Rappace is a Good Actress and i think when you look at her Character, she was brought up Religious, she has her Faith, its what she may have used for Strength to get her through a lot of Hard Times in her Life.
Yet she is also a Scientist and this can conflict, especially when her works is to Study Various Ancient Cultures and connections to who Ancient Mankind had interpreted as GODS.
This is a bit of a Flaw, because the Study of many other Cultures would contradict her Biblical Faith.
But if we ignore this... Dr Shaw had gone through a Traumatic Event, she finds out the clues to this Place (LV-223) which she thinks may answer who our Many Cultures had worshiped as the Gods, has just lead her to Discover these BEINGS are no GOD's they are just Advanced Humanoid's who involve themselves with different Worlds, and Cultures and our DNA Ancestry comes via them.
But these beings had Bad Intentions for US, Shaw has found out that her Faith is Wrong, these beings clearly are not like how she would have expected a GOD or his Servants to had been. These beings had indeed played a part in our Creation, Evolution and how our Cultures and Religions had developed.. But then they had wanted to Destroy us and Abandon us.
So ignoring how Dr Shaw was in Prometheus, there was some Pretty Big Questions that needed to be Answered.... Dr Shaw has NOTHING, she has no Reason to Go on and Live.
All she has left is her FAITH and indeed while she found out these Engineers are not GODS, or very nice She still holds on to a tiny piece of her FAITH by asking Who Created Them!
These beings and their Agenda conflicts with the Picture Shaw has painted of GOD from her Faith...
She still holds on to the Hope, that some more Powerful Higher Being of Creation must have been above the Engineers, she is still holding out for maybe their being some kind of GOD or Equivalent out there. She wants to know if this is the CASE.
And so regardless of if their is some higher Being or not, she would still want to know WHY was Mankind created, WHY did these beings visit us and interact with our Ancient Cultures, and then WHY did they want to destroy us.
These 3 Questions and also finding out who Created these Engineers or who are above them, and the ONLY THINGS Shaw has left...
WHAT HAPPENS WHEN.....
A already Broken Woman, who has only her Faith Left finds out her Faith is NOTHING and the True Agendas of who Mankind had persevered as Gods is something very Horrific and Sinister and totally even more darker and further away from her Faith than what she already found out in Prometheus.
THIS.... could surely change a Naive Character and i think exploring the After Math of a Broken Woman whos Faith is Destroyed and proved False, really gives a very INTERESTING Dynamic to how Dr Shaw's Character could be Evolved into something very interesting and given Noomi Rappace something interesting to Portray.
So YES missed opportunity because FOX felt most Fans want Xenomorphs, and i think now FOX is now panicking and will crack in to make the Prequels Connect to Ripley who after Aliens started to become a boring Character, and rightly should have died in Alien 3 and never to be resurrected.
I fill FINALLY add that Daniels Character i felt got a bit Bland at the end also. The change was very Forced.... i think there is potential to evolve her Character after the Events of Alien Covenant but sadly how the Movies ended can-not bold well for her as She realizes Walter is David and David knows this and so she is definitely a Thorn to any Plans David has.
This Logically would lead to her Character being killed off rather early.... hope fully its not done in the same way as Dr Shaw, i.e if its done like Captain Jacobs Character was.
R.I.P Sox 01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017
I don't think shaw was a great character but she had a sense of purpose and was something different to what has come before her. daniels didn't give anything new. she may aswell have just been one of the crew that got killed off at any time and I don't think many would have batted an eye. we only get the sense she is the main character as she has been marketed and portrayed that way but I wasn't a fan. id much rather have seen more of Tennessee
I liked how they executed Shaw's fate. They left it mysterious up until we see her cadaver and it harkened back to Alien 3 (which I'm sure brought back fond memories/feelings lol). Prometheus was never Shaw's story but David's. I really liked the Shaw character as well as she was one tough little son of a ***** and she wasn't dumb. Yeah she had faith and was a bit naive but like BigDave you saw her character grow and adapt. I think that's what David found so interesting about her, her survival instincts. He wanted that for his perfect organism and I think we'll see the same thing with Daniels as she had a knack for survival as well, now David has plenty to experiment with. He has a thing for tough, strong women. I think Ridley is trying to break new ground with these prequels instead of rehashing such as having a female protagonist survive through each film and instead we're getting a male antagonist this go around.
"The trick, William Potter, is not minding that it hurts."
do u think it would have the same feel or just be wrong if say, Tennessee is the one who survives awakening and a possible next instalment? r we stuck with a female lead in the franchise do u think? would it seem weird to have a male lead?
Lol, I don't know why but your hatred of Shaw really made me laugh. Ok, I'm glad someone was able to benefit from her demise then. At least we can both agree that Daniels is a good character whom we hope to see again, maybe she'll get some more character development in the next movie.
It wouldn't bother me to see Tennessee survive instead of Daniels. He's not really the sort of character you'd expect to see in that role. It'd be really interesting.
@Vivisected I agree with you about Tennessee. His character was MUCH better and enjoyable than Daniels' whining, IMHO.
Lol, I'm not sure that's exactly what I said. I'm sure I'd be a little whiny my self in Daniels' situation. But yes, Tennessee would be an interesting protagonist!
The Alien: Covenant Origins summary mentions Hideo Yutani just after the merger and the prequel could stretch back to the Quiet Eye Yutani Corporation technology that intercepted the beloved Dr. Elizabeth Shaw sending a message to Peter Weyland.
And maybe sneak in a mouth cameo from you know who Ati...
@Vivisected Yes I agree, Daniels WAS whiney, lol...
Ingeniero - Ha, thanks for that cameo, but I think it's time to move on. Nowadays I'm fascinated by Olga Kurylenko and Theo James, I'd like to see their bodyparts in the next Alien movie:
Ok Ati. I respect that you have moved on but I will still carry a torch for my beloved Dr. Elizabeth Shaw.