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Alien Origin David's Experiments

Alien Origin David's Experiments

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OvomorphMember21 XPAug-29-2016 1:32 PM

I was wandering what people thought of David's part on the next film.  I've considered Elizabeth Shaw being some sort of test subject in Covenant similar to Holloway and David being some sort of sick Dr Frankenstein.  I'm also thinking though that the Xeno's as we know them pre-date Prometheus and Davie; i.e. The fossilised jockey in alien and the Prometheus jockeys being thousands of years old - similar time to the crashed derelict in Alien.  So if the timelines don't fit with David being the creator I'm wandering whether Ridley may bring in time travel as I think it was hinted before, and or the Xeno already exists...?!!

79 Responses to Alien Origin David's Experiments


DeaconMember10237 XPOct-10-2016 8:12 AM

"Daivd that the Covenant meet is not a synthetic but a blended being"

Indeed this is something that Fire and Stone touched upon with Elden, and my post with the Female Concept Synthetic... and how i thought before i saw Prometheus that David would evolve himself to be more than Machine but ultimately would then be able to be Face Hugged and Gestate a Chest Buster.

Deep Space also wondered what condition he would be in when the Covenant arrive.....    Ridleys comments indicate more than a simply unqualified re-attachment of his head by Shaw!

But while its likely David is back in one piece using Engineer Technology (could a Engineer had actually helped him and made a Covenant? ) who knows....

But i dont think David would be to far changed so that he would look nothing like his former self (i.e how evolved Elden from Fire and Stone had been).    I think David would have to look pretty Human for the Covenant Crew to accept him and interact with him without being alarmed..

As i doubt or hope we dont have a group of Colonists who are stupid..... and so they would be cautious if they detect and see a David who looks totally different.

Maybe David is wearing similar Engineer under Pressure Suit, the Covenant Crew would see this as odd, but he could explain that its technology he came across that can evolve and be beneficial to Mankind.... this is when he can loosely discus Engineer Technology and maybe reveal the Juggernaught?

Who knows...

The only other way is by the time the Covenant meet this new and improved David 8.... their ship is Sabotaged and they cant escape.

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

Michelle Johnston

ChestbursterMember759 XPOct-10-2016 8:14 AM


I also feel for Covenant to flow on from Prometheus what they find is not what Janek speculated but more of the same refined and made clear. From a story telling point of view that closes out LV223 and for future prequels as well as well answer the why not go there rather than divert the Nostromo. Its no longer a plot hole its an irrelevance. 

Michelle Johnston

ChestbursterMember759 XPOct-10-2016 8:24 AM


Thats why I hesitated yesterday I did not think the Eldon outcome would work for the story and began thinking whether David created his own doppleganger but you come back to the same point. We need to get something into the food chain to create the Egg a face hugger and off we go. I think for a tent pole movie David to no longer be just David and Shaw to be plot device where David has access to the tools and knowledge of the evolving creature makes much sense and plays into some thing I know other like that retains the stand off between David 8 and David Covenant.

If we learn in the prologue that Engineer technology can blend David we have the seeds for the rest of the story. A blended being could either cause a woman to give birth to a face hugger or be ripe as you say for a hug themselves.

A good conversation where geekiness can lead to over thinking. Thanks.     



DeaconMember10237 XPOct-10-2016 8:29 AM

Indeed Michelle i think it seemed they was going to cover more deeper into the Fall and Engineers.... this i think is going to be toned down but loosely covered.... like how loosely the Xeno connections was in Prometheus.

In turn... the Xeno connections would be explored in more detail this time.

As far as the Evolving Creature.... its hard to see what they mean by this but it rules out anything regarding the time frame of post Covenant Ships arrival.

Its a case of is this Evolving Creature something that was created by David or after David and Shaw arrived on Paradise, and so was there any remains of Engineers there? and what of Shaw.

Or if there was no Engineers when David arrived, maybe he instead found something that was Evolving left behind...

Ridley implies they made it (Engineers) but in the same interview he mentioned why would they create such Evil Biology and when he has in past mentioned the Evil Biology before he mentioned it in respect to the Black Goo.

So its open to if its implied the Evolving Creature was created by the Engineers as was discovered by David upon arrival..... or if its regarding the Engineers Evil Biology that allowed David to use it to create the creature that is evolving all those years between when David had arrived and then the Covenant.

We cant really be sure as there is one missing clue and piece of evidence... that is we dont know yet how long David had been on Paradise?

Ridley did say that they are not alone (David and Shaw) as another ship is incoming... but its a case of is the Covenant on the trail of Davids Juggernaught and following it?  or is it they are coming after as in they arrive at the same destination but at totally different times.......

One piece of Evidence to help with this is that we have to assume a Engineer Ship can Travel Faster than a Earth Ship in the year 2104 but we have no evidence for this.... we dont know how fast the Engineers ships can travel but the Orrey Room Star map did show other Galaxies so we have to assume its advanced.

So if the Covenant is not far behind or following David then we have to ask what has David been up to all those years before he sets a final course to Paradise....

The Covenant is WY ship and no Merger had happened as of 2094, and Paradise is said to be the other side of the Galaxy... but we cant take Synopsis as Fact here because LV-223 was in the dark reaches of the Universe... but we surely can assume Paradise is not as close as LV-223 and Prometheus took 2 years to get there...  the Nostromo which is a 2101 commissioned ship would have taken 10 months LV-426 to Earth, so i doubt the Covenant would be as fast as say the Sulaco...

So yes a lot of what may be going on depends on When David arrives and what state Paradise is in that time, and when the Covenant set out on its voyage.... and its a case of we may never know these details as we would arrive at the Start of Alien Covenant after these Events...

Pre-Aftermath of David on Paradise and Post Covenant arriving near by.


R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017


DeaconMember10237 XPOct-10-2016 8:41 AM

Indeed its interesting to speculate  the connections and outcome and Ridleys comments are pushing us in a direction that may contradict his other comments..... but its only what is shown on Screen thats Ultimately Canon..

I cant see how they can ignore LV-223 as significant and future movies must cover it to a degree... LV-223 must hold a big part of the Xenomorph.

The think with the comments Ridley has made is he could be misleading with them....

His comments could draw people to think...

*So the evolving creature has something to do with David and maybe this is why the Xenomorph is Bio-Mechanical

*The Xenomorph Origins starts from after the events of the Covenant Crew coming across David and this evolving creature.

But we have to not forget that THEY (Engineers) created it and so its a statement that could be a misleading one as could it mean some Organism Evolving that David finds.... that the Engineers created or maybe the THEY CREATED is with regards to the Black Goo?

They cant pass of LV-223 and all those clues, and our Engineers and how it connects to a Fall and Fallen Angels...  the events on LV-223 had occurred thousands of years ago....  where something related to Xeno DNA was present in those Bio-Weapons and the Mural/Fresco and other clues...

Was this event merely a Prophecy.... (Mural and Fresco) or are we going to have Time Travel?

For me the Sources comments about RE-CREATION seem to be interesting and something that can cover both aspects and provide a Creation Event within the timeline of Prometheus to Alien 2094 ==> 2122 that does not contradict clues and events seen in Alien and Prometheus.


R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017


DeaconMember10237 XPOct-10-2016 8:54 AM

A few things are for Certain....

The Covenant crew will come across David all on his own, but would soon be Faced with a Horrific Evolving Creation that is very related to the Xenomorph..

Paradise does not seem to be in a thriving state as far as Engineer Civilization....  There is a Scene of Disaster in the movie but is this on Paradise and when does this occur?   And is it related to LV-223 as we also see this place had been a Disaster too and all that remained was ONE Engineer (maybe) on LV-223 that the Prometheus Crew had awakened...

Are their any survivors on Paradise..?  it looks unlikely by the time the Covenant arrive... but we cant say as far as when David arrives.

I think this is a interesting Shot....

We dont know what this implies exactly.... as it could just be a place on set where the Production Crew Store these Props.... but i feel the whole Cave look and Ancient Shelves look is a big give away for this to not be the case.

Janek proposed the Engineers would not be so stupid to conduct Bio-Weapons Testing on their Door Step... but we cant be sure if he was correct...

We can assume these Urns are on Paradise but its a case of when and where?

*Is this a set that is to be used as a Ancient Flash Back, where these Urns end up there and do the inhabitants of Paradise know their purpose because if they did it does not look a good way to Store such things..

*Is this a place that David or the Covenant Crew Stumble upon among Engineer Ruins.... and these are left over Urns that have been there for a long long time?

*Is this a place that David has transported his Cargo to, and maybe he could trick the Covenant Crew to thinking they have discovered evidence of a Ancient Civilization and these Urn/Jars pose no threat?

Are these the Tools David has at his disposal? and with a number of Couples on the Covenant David could Re-Create his Experiment that he had done on Holloway/Shaw.

But i think that the Non-Synthetic Doppelganger could play the key role in something that ultimately is Bio-Mechanical.


R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

Michelle Johnston

ChestbursterMember759 XPOct-10-2016 9:48 AM


You have misunderstood my point about LV223. What I am saying is that if Covenant which moves on fluidly from Prometheus answers all the questions raised by LV223 (the black goo, the headroom, the vials, the mutagen the fresco and mural and the attack on earth) then in story telling terms we have all our answers. If Paradise is a disaster I am sure its an extension of the same disaster as LV223 and if we get answer to why a disaster occurred on Paradise then we will have the answer about LV223.

I am not for one minute suggesting we will ignore the story telling value of LV223 but we can get our answers through Paradise and if there are heads (Yes) a destroyed engineer race (highly probable) Vials (Yes) and the follow through from the Deacon what story telling value does LV223 have.      

Michelle Johnston

ChestbursterMember759 XPOct-10-2016 10:13 AM


We also know the answer about why ten years. Its to fit the timeline down to the original movie and because it makes plausible the relative state of David/Shaw/W-Y at the moment the Covenant sets out on its mission. 

So David must be a place thats suitable for the story so must Shaw and the W-Y merger has had sufficient time to take place and the merged company set off. I am sure it has nothing to do with light year travel other than they would not make it entirely implausible. Its a long way away and it takes some time to get there audiences do not study warp technology potential.

The ten years is about whatever the story needs to get the pieces on the chessboard in the right place.

Whilst Ridley may use a phase enigmatically and he may of course change his mind during filming when he says they come to Paradise and find an evolving creature I am sure he means that there is enough ambiguity with our being an outright untruth.

One thing we definitely can not be certain of is their are two roles for Michael as David but we can not guarantee that one of them is own board Covenant though any other option seems less full of drama.  

Deep Space

FacehuggerMember320 XPOct-10-2016 11:05 AM

@ BD & MJ

Some very interesting ideas there- I do enjoy the detail you both go to and ideas you generate!

@MJ in particular - Your idea about David becoming/evolving into a bio/mechanical being was what I was kind of alluding to.  The idea of him then being 'infected' in the traditional sense (face-hugged) could then lead to the Xeno we see in ALIEN (or very similar)

@ BD - I also feel this could be done to David (C) by David (P).  I'm not sure I like the idea of the former being a hybrid construct rather than purely mechanical.  I think it has mileage, don't get me wrong, but not sure I'd want the franchise to go into Bladerunner territory, or riff on the comics, in this instance.  ( I imagine i may be in a minority on that though ;) 

@ MJ - Re. the evolving creature - my guess is that this was once something similar to the Deacon and used directly or inadvertently to initiate the disaster we have seen glimpses of on Paradise.  I assume a lot there but that's where the clues and my imagination, aligned to reasonable logic, take me!  

I think David will find this but perhaps 'modify' it in some way that will produce the 2nd type of beast we have been promised.  i.e we have an 'evolving original' and the David 8 model Xeno ;)

The 'evolving' bit of the synopsis does cast some doubt here though . . .  Much like how the use of the word "synthetic" suggests to me that David 8 is, or will become, not what we last knew!


DeaconMember10237 XPOct-10-2016 2:24 PM

Indeed Michelle i think i maybe did not quite get what you meant when you said "From a story telling point of view that closes out LV223 and for future prequels as well as well answer the why not go there rather than divert the Nostromo. Its no longer a plot hole its an irrelevance. "

So you think if Alien Covenant can answer some of those connections from LV-223 then future movies can pass it by, i am not sure if you mean it would be irrelevant as in Story Telling Terms or as in for what the company can gain from there.

As it stands now, it seems LV-223 has more rewards and treasures than LV-426 but after Alien Covenant it could be shown that Paradise has the greater reward. And so going to LV-223 is no longer important?

Forgive me if i am wrong on that interpretation of your comments.

I guess a lot depends where they are going with the Plot... surely they are not going to ignore the back ground Weyland information about detecting Acheron LV-426 in 2039 however at this point it could be merely as a point of interest for supporting life and in no way any detection of the Space Jockey SOS.  Further background information latter exposed that they thought that LV-426 would hold more importance at a greater risk than LV-223 and that David would be assigned on the Mission as the only person in the know as far as Lv-426

So i would assume we are not going with the LV-426 at the time line of Alien Covenant (circa 2104) not having a Derelict on the surface?  I hope they dont go the route that the Derelict gets there after the events of the next Movie..

I hope Ridleys backing into Alien is just that... a going backwards and not forwards once Covenant is out with its Alien Xeno clues as i feel the change of plan is to answer these sooner rather than latter to please the Fans and allow Alien 5 to not have to step on any ones toes.... so that latter movies can touch upon the LV-223 and Engineers connections.

I totally agree we dont need Spoon Fed scenes... they need to however be less ambiguous than Prometheus for the most part as while some could figure out Prometheus and its trying to connect LV-223 with LV-426 and Derelict/Space Jockey and cargo with the Juggernaught/Engineers and Black Goo.... not everyone could make the connections.

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017


DeaconMember10237 XPOct-10-2016 2:36 PM

So yes i agree as far as story telling we dont need a full on what happened from when David and Shaw get to Paradise to when the Covenant Crew arrive....    Prometheus showed us them leaving in the Juggernaught (its safe to assume it was them) yet it never showed us Shaw and David finding these other Ships or how they managed to get to take one off the Surface with David in Two pieces..... but maybe this was not needed to be shown to know that they managed to get a ship and fly it to Paradise.

Prometheus we never got the Full Sacrificial Scene with Translations.... but the one we got with no Elders still performs the same purpose to tell us the Engineers Sacrificed themselves to create life.

Like we never got a full detailed look to what happened on LV-223 thousands of years ago....

However the clues, from Carbon Dating the Head, to seeing the Dead Bodies the Hologram Engineers running for their lives to the Big Head Room, the Sterile environment of the Big Head Room that prevented the Urns from activating prior to the Humans with no Helmets entering and how the infection within the Space Jockey Head had ceased.... and was preseved... with the effects of the Black Goo,  Shaws Ebola comments and Janeks WMD Facility comments...

All provide clues for us to get answers....

We just need similar for the next movie in a less ambiguous way than to actually be shown every detail of what happened on Paradise both post Davids arrival and prior (Ancient Past).

I think this is kind of the point you was making?

And its totally logical.... it seemed originally it may have been more deeper, but its been toned down now... like how the Xeno connections from Spaights draft was changed for Lindeloffs... 

They now seem to want to cover the Xeno Questions and DNA in more depth, and we could arrive at the After Math of previous events.  And so maybe little would be told of those events but enough so we can paint the picture..

I do wander if the backing into Alien comment means latter movies can explore these Post Alien Covenant events?

As we have the Merger already, no details perhaps why and how,  if we are also not going to cover to deep anything regarding what befell LV-223 and Paradise from when these places was in their prime..

That leaves 2 more movies after Alien Covenant to Alien with a 18 year timeline and surely thats too short a time line and to much screen time to feature Xenomorphs over and over.


R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017


DeaconMember10237 XPOct-10-2016 2:54 PM

"David becoming/evolving into a bio/mechanical being was what I was kind of alluding to."

Its possible... i had covered it a number of times years ago and as i put in this thread its where the Prometheus Trailers was taking me as far as David... but then latter Trailers (quick shot of Davids Head) proved this theory wrong....

Its something Fire and Stone picked upon as far as Evolving a Synthetic but Elden was not a 100% Synthetic like David.

The Synopsis is very open to interpretations and the comments by Ridley Scott, that we can make our own theories which is all part of the fun of debating.

I am however drawn to the "Synthetic David" in the Synopsis and the two roles Fassbender will play and curious for the big idea for how David is in One Piece

But Ridley can be very ambiguous with comments and could lead us astray.... acting like a Magician with distraction?

The Synthetic comment had lead me before to these and they are what Deep Space you and Michelle seem to be touching upon...

What can be meant by Synthetic David?  is it just to inform us of the Synopsis that they find the Android David on Paradise the survivor of Prometheus?

Or is there something to the Synthetic?  which brings us to maybe 2 possible answers.

1) Is it a clue to tease that the second role of Fassbender the Doppelganger is different?  A common mistake people think when they look at Doppelganger is like a Twin... If you had a Twin unknown to you would they be a Doppelganger or if you was cloned?

But it is to show us someone similar (usually in appearance)  who are not however connected.  I would think but i could be wrong that if we had David 8 and another David on Covenant say David 9 would they use the term Doppelganger? or that he is playing TWO Roles?  Why not say Fassbender returns to play David and another Android.... but then these comments could mean the same thing.... that he is playing Two Davids....  as we do see a brown haired on with the Covenant crew.

But then what if the Synthetic was a clue.. so David 8 is Synthetic and it alludes to the other role being non-Synthetic or different.. i wandered if it would have been a Human who David was created in the image of until the Covenant Badge had Weyland-Yutani which is thus a post Prometheus mission so this would not add up... unless earlier David models had a different likeness... i even thought this would have made a cool encounter for David to meet a Human counterpart... David would be Jealous a little as his Doppelganger would have a Soul.... but then this Human Counterpart would be Mortal after all... and not have potential for near immortality that David 8 has.. i felt this would be a interesting Dynamic... but again with the Covenant Ship being a Weyland-Yutani mission i abandoned this idea.

2) The other only idea i had which is what you not long ago touched upon Deep Space is that the Synthetic in the Synopsis is to allude us to that David 8 is supposed to be Synthetic.... however when the Covenant Crew arrive he is no longer and has some what Evolved and Transcended himself.  But off course not in the way to make him totally different like Elden from Fire and Stone.


R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017


DeaconMember10237 XPOct-10-2016 3:11 PM

As far as the Light Speeds etc.... what i was trying to do there was prior to the Alien Covenant Badge which showed us a Weyland Yutani mission.

Was that the distances was important as far as to the when the Juggernaught David was on, departed (assume 1st January 2094) and when it arrived which is some date post 2094 but prior to about 2104...

And then also the same goes with the Covenant, we dont know where Paradise is or how far as they have not officially mentioned it... The Source gave me a destination but we cant take that as being Fact... his destination was about 600 Parsecs but they think it could been 600LY or so...  Thats some over 15X or up to 50X further than LV-223 from Earth.. but we cant take the Source as being correct.

So my comment has no relevance really it does not matter, all i was using it for was to establish (even though we may never be told) how long the Covenants journey was and what year it had left for Paradise.

My thinking is this...

No way a Engineer Juggernaught could leave LV-223 and arrive at Paradise and take nearly 10 years..... not if a Earth ship was heading to the same place.. unless the Earth ship departed many many years prior and arrived by coincidence.

The Covenant Badge shows us a Weyland-Yutani ships and so within the context of the movie the 10 years that have passed has to have seen a Weyland Merger of sorts and then the ship leaving.... but we have no idea of if this Merger happened in the year 2095, 2098, or 2101 or any dates between...

But its not important really...

So my whole point was mainly trying to figure out if David 8 had been on Paradise prior as i doubt the Covenant would be just behind him... i would assume David had been on Paradise for sometime....  how long depends how long it takes him to get there from LV-223 and so only reason i brought up Speeds of Travel is that if David had only been there for say 5 years.. then what was he doing in those 5 years as if it takes him 5 years how can the Weyland company merger and send out a Earth Mission within 10 years..

I would thus assume David had been on Paradise for like 7-9 years i would assume... 

And back to the debate, i think its a case of how much or little of what has David been upto prior to the Covenants Arrival and Post leaving LV-223 that we would find out about.

I doubt we would cover loads, as you hint to Michelle it would be a distraction to cover the A-Z from leaving LV-223 to the Covenant arriving.... it would distract from the main story of the Covenant crew and their fate in being caught up in the Nightmares that await on Paradise for them.... and show us the Xenomorph connections and Origins somewhat.

And so just as with the what happened between when Shaw collected Davids body and head and made the Warning Message to when we see the Juggernaught leave LV-223 what happened to every bit of action regarding finding the Ship, and getting David to be able to Fly it...

Simply put, did it really matter?

And so if we arrive at the Aftermath of David being on Paradise, we dont need to have much time devoted to it, just as we never got a complete in time frame showing of the Outbreak that killed the Engineers off.... we never saw this happen, we never saw the events of that event.... only clues left via the Aftermath and Prometheus Crews findings, encounters and theories regarding what went down.. and the Hologram Scenes...


R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017


DeaconMember10237 XPOct-10-2016 3:21 PM

The Evolving Creature is a definitely known Plot Device.

We have to ask in what way does this imply..... i think it would be interesting to see David play a role in this but who knows as Ridley said the Engineers Created it.... but then Ridley in the same interview asked why would they create such Evil Biology and we will discover why they did, when Ridley mentioned the Biology another time it was in context to the Bio-Weapons on LV-223.

What is this Evolving Creature and the event of it and will be discover the making or this creature.... or just the discovery of it... which we have to ponder.

1) Is this something related to what the Engineers Created in the past that was discovered by David 8 after he arrives on Paradise?

2) is it something as above but its discovered by the Covenant and maybe David is not aware it was there.. (this seems unlikely).

3) Was it something Evolving from some aftermath after David had arrived on Paradise and so was nothing that was on Paradise prior to Davids Arrival and if so does this Evolving Creature have something to do with the Role that

a) Engineers or related beings was involved in after David 8 arrives on Paradise.

b) Shaw is involved with in some way and if so is this prior to their arrival or has part of this evolution of this creature been started before David had arrived on Paradise. or  a event involves Shaw after they arrived?

I am draw to one of those 3 events being the most likely explanation.... which ever one it is.... i think David plays a role in how it eventually interact with the Covenant Crew, so even if David does not discover it already there... and he does not experiment with it... he has to be deeply involved in how this Evolving Creature goes from being there to then unleashing Horrors on to the Covenant Crew


R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017


OvomorphMember21 XPOct-10-2016 3:26 PM

I hope the Doppelganger isn't like Bishop in Alien 3, the human bishop.  Something cheesy like Weylands hidden son....


DeaconMember10237 XPOct-10-2016 5:36 PM

I certainly hope not too....

I do think that we are going to see in effect Fassbender in Two Roles... one being David 8 from Prometheus and the 2nd some look a like on the Covenant..

I think its a bit of a coincidence if the other role is a Human look-a-like...  who just happens to look similar.

I did wander did all the David Models look the same from David 1 who was created in the year 2025, and did Weyland continue to use the same likeness all the way through?

If so who was this based off? a Real Person who maybe worked as part of the team?  Surely not a real Son of Peter Weyland... But how would this Human look-a-like who David models had been created in the likeness off had been around prior to 2025 and then in 2104+ and look a similar age...

Once we knew the Covenant was Weyland-Yutani it was safe to assume the Mission had not left Earth until at least some point past 2094..... so it cant be a look-a-like who David models had been based off.

David 7 had came out in 2068 with the David 8 Model mainly available from 2073 (Pre-Ordering late 2072)  So the David models had Evolved over time, always improvements.

However after 2073 it appears no more models, and Prometheus had set off in the year 2093 with a David 8 on board and so this model had been in service for 20 years.

With Model 7 being 4 years before replacement with newer model, Model 6 having 6 year+ Shelf-life, Model 5 with 10 years, likewise with David 4 ... David 3 at 7 years prior with David 2 likewise 7 years and  3 years after the First David.

so thats a long time to keep David 8 model which means they must have Perfected the Design by then.

Weyland called David the closest thing to a Son... but David 8 was not the first... he may have been Weylands Favored David 8 model but Weylands First Son was David 1

But Weyland meant that the David Androids was created as a Son to himself...

So it would be interesting to see what the other Fassbender is.... distant relative of a Scientist who Weyland had based Davids looks? 

or maybe a David 9.. less Synthetic Model..

Either way i think David would be amused at the discovery of a Doppelganger and could be Jealous a bit if its a distant relative of the Human who David got his likeness...

Or if its a Advanced less Synthetic David model again it may make David feel a bit insecure maybe this Doppelganger could look down on David.... But ultimately pay the price.

I am still betting on a David 9 Synthetic Construct model similar to Elden from Fire and Stone.

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

Deep Space

FacehuggerMember320 XPOct-11-2016 11:51 AM

@BD - I do like the way you run through the possibilities!

Here's a very simple idea:  David discovers tech that can help make him bio-mechanical either at, or en route to, Paradise.

He arrives a good few years before the Covenant crew and discovers Xeno type being (or beings?).  He then experiments (perhaps using Shaw here in some way) and kind of reverses the experiment on himself with this Xeno.

et Viola . . . you have your bio-mechanical Xeno.  Plus lots of the 'natives' all ready and waiting for the loved up crew! ;)

That's most probably far too simple, I know; but whilst I don't want to be spoon fed, I am realistic in thinking that if the links are too vague, and we stray into too much 'Engineer politics', it would most likely negatively affect the films reaction en masse.  

As MJ has often highlighted, the effects on Shaw's reproductive system after the 'insemination' could remain, and David could be aware of this.  Perhaps he utilises this to his advantage in creating/developing the Xeno life cycle on Paradise? Even if it reverts back to a 'barren' state, he has, in Shaw, a being with the potential to create life in a way that a male could not!

 It does make we wonder also if she is perhaps the 'missing link' as it were, and perhaps the one who is 'making' the eggs? (possible tie in to Queen here as well, maybe?)

Which also begs the question - will David find eggs or create them?  Or a bit of both . . .  We do know that we will see the full cycle from Egg to Big Boy so they are making an appearance in some form - I can't help thinking of the Giger image of female looking creatures attached to some sort of birthing(?) or who knows what machine

If, as I suspect,  Shaw has had to use the Engineer tech to make the trip alive, then some part of that may be irreversible.   e.g. the suits the Engineers in Prom wore looked almost bonded into the skin. Perhaps it's also through Shaw that David gets his breakthrough?

Ha, so much for simplicity!  

Whether Ridley chooses to reveal these details or not is questionable but I do hope we get some clues (and think we will).

What is really bugging me though is whether the Crew simply arrive and find these monsters or whether they are in some way part of their development?  Could be a little bit of both . . .

The wrapped up Daniels clip suggest some medi-pod or scan to me, although it could just be coming out of hyper sleep.

I will add that my one bug bear with the synopsis is that it doesn't appear to be covering the why they made and then wanted to destroy us - something that after watching Prometheus I was eager to delve a little deeper into.  However, maybe what we see in AC will at the very least give us some clues or answers in an indirect manner.

Also how much WY really know about the Xeno and the android 'situation' are also things I'd like touched on - but perhaps best leave those to another thread :) 


Michelle Johnston

ChestbursterMember759 XPOct-11-2016 1:27 PM


Before the Covenant arrives :-

1) We have a disaster on Paradise. We know there is strong connective tissue with Prometheus which in all likely hood includes the mutagenised goo and an evolving creature the Deacon being the forerunner.

2) We have a technically alive Shaw. I believe it is Shaw that is head wrapped with a slopping shouldered David in his utilitarian outfit looking on the reflection. He has designs on her "womanhood'

3) We have a big idea David who has access to on board Juggernaut technology including a fused bio skeletal suit.

When the Covenant arrive ecstatic at the finding of their dream we see three elements :-

1) The idealists on a colonising mission.

2) Some stiff W-Y sub military types including Daneils.

3) Some robots pre ash post David 8.

The crescendo of the first act is finding the "synthetic" David.

In the second act the character of the crew begins to emerge as Daniels begins to chip away for the truth. Stuff will happen which will ratchet up the fear but towards the end of this act we will begin receiving answers to whom David now is, what the fall was about and this place is no Paradise. Something awful will happen at the end of the second act and deep .... begins.

3rd act is the terror act where everything that is going to be revealed in this movie is made clear. We may see David and Shaw  in the prologue and now come to understand what we saw means.

Ridley will riff ALIEN we think its all over but its not. The connection with Ripley will be made and someone has a career in finding out answers to the questions set in this movie. We will know W-Y is still interested in the Engineers broader technology and Daniels wants her answers. Does David go through a redemption arc as his humanity grows. If there are more prequels expect slightly more survivors otherwise you have to rebuild again and if Ridley has got it all clear there will be more natural continuity with A L I E N : ........      

David is a mechanical being involved in a big idea and Shaw is a reproducing member of mankind who is technically alive if these things do not play into the re (creation) evolution of the life cycle I will eat my helmet. How is the beautiful part of this and in less than 300 days we get to find out. Yo ! 

I do believe passionately that this film will have the flow and momentum of the Martian and the colouring in of the mythos will be direct rather than elliptical and some of it will be through exposition and some of it will be made obvious by the horror we witness. So if we see "Shaw" connected to a birthing machine we will know precisely where the Face Huggers come from whereas David will offer those wonderful one liners to explain what the Engineers fall was about. "It would seem the forbidden fruit caused all their troubles"...."Rebellion has a price" and of course big things are still emerging from small beginnings.

Deep Space

FacehuggerMember320 XPOct-11-2016 2:18 PM

And that, MJ, is why I go on this forum :)  Excellent stuff!

I'm not sure that's Shaw all wrapped up though - could be - but the lips look very similar to Waterston's to me.  Not that it detracts for the overall gist of your post one way or the other, really :) . . . Also, I just don't see any reflection - again, I don't doubt it's there, I just can't see it - annoyingly!  

Indeed . . . the How is the beauty of this and I can't wait!

Michelle Johnston

ChestbursterMember759 XPOct-11-2016 10:41 PM


One of the curious things about even the most casual make up is you can make a woman lips extremely variable. A particularly good example is Cate Blanchett. The mouth she is given in say Carol as opposed to the Tolkien films is radically different. What strikes me with Katherine is she has a very rounded face which is very notable in the face book picture with other other actors including Michael and Uli Latukefu and her Covenant "Bob" emphasises this more rounded face which is quite different from Noomi's angular face.   

The reflection is the body element which is wearing David's Prometheus utilitarian shirt with the scruffy collar and is not quite lined up with the head.   

Deep Space

FacehuggerMember320 XPOct-12-2016 3:15 AM

 Hmm, interesting example MJ!  I have zero knowledge of make up so will keep an open mind here . . . either way it's an intriguing image.  If it is Shaw, with David onlooking, then it definitely gives us a big clue as to what is going on.

I will look again to see if I can spot this reflection . . .

Question:  Yourself, and other posters here, have been referring to Daniels as more 'military type' than colonist per se.  Why is that?  Is this based on info. released about her character or on the images/peaks we've seen?  I've probably missed something here, and it would make sense, but just thought I'd best ask - thanks :) 


DeaconMember10237 XPOct-12-2016 2:51 PM

Darn it one time i dont copy my post incase, and i get timed out.

Here is a Nut-Shell version... i had studied before that Cryo-Sleep Image in great detail, even using a photo editing program to scale and then super impose over the top photos at same angle of Waterston and Rapace... and at close look ven though  they are similar in a way... i always felt it was Waterston.. but after using a Photo Editor and looking at % Ratio of Features i am pretty much 95% Certain its Waterston and if its not then i feel its unlikely to be Rapace.

Shaw was not in the Synopsis too, and Daniels is touted as a main Character and she appears the most in the official images we have seen so far.  And so i think this adds up to it being Katherine Waterston...

As far as what the Scene is, well who knows it could be a Cryo-Sleep Pod it could be a Medical Pod... hell it even has that Happy Birthday awaken from Production look to it.. but i doubt she would be a Robot...

What a Twist if it was though... we are being led to her being maybe the Ripley Link..... then Ridley pulls the Synthetic construct (like Elden) on us and she is the reason for the Xenomorphs Bio-Mechanical look...   We would not see that coming...

But to have TWO non-Human Leads would not be likely.

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017


DeaconMember10237 XPOct-12-2016 2:56 PM

Its certainly interesting to discus what we could potentially be seeing and each of us make our own view that differ, its all part of the fun.... its very open and vague from what clues we have... but i think there are from the Synopsis, Ridleys Comments, the shots we have seen and onset production and other casts comments then we can paint a broad picture... i will highlight these points maybe latter but i think i had covered them before.

But as far as how these are expanded and in detail what they mean is where its any one guess really..... i dont think they are showing us all this stuff to give  a lot away and i would not be surprised if they are misleading us with some stuff.

They are not lying... they are just showing snippets that can seem to lead us to a more spoon fed conclusion... when actually its not that simple.

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017


DeaconMember10237 XPOct-12-2016 3:29 PM

I will first tackle the Daniels Military comment...

We cant be 100% sure at the moment,  all we know is the Mission is a Colony Ship mission to find and then colonize a New World and we have couples.

I think after Prometheus failed to draw us into the Characters, they are going to make sure they can change this for this movie.  If we look at the Martian it was so well done that a Plain Jane or John Actor (Matt Damon) who is not really someone who in his career has had many deep roles.... well in Martian i at least got the sense of worry for his plight at every pitfall that occurred... this is how well his characters was written and then portrayed on screen it was a good job by Matt and also Ridley....  even though you knew he would survive, at every obstacle the movie made us feel his plight... Ridley pulled this off with Alien too and sadly Prometheus did not deliver the same sense of care for the Characters.

So i think Ridley has to work out how can we connect with the Characters and Especially Daniels... Its seems that they did try and change Shaw's Character to becoming more closer to Ripley (she had to change and harden up because of traumatic experience) But Ripley it took the events of TWO movies to turn her into that Bass Ass....   with Shaw it never worked as it was from innocent scientific believer in God and After-life to signs of becoming that more Tough Female Role, after her C-Section it seemed a bit rushed... 

The deleted Scenes showed Shaw in a more changed way, like when she got Davids Head and she was manhandling him and called him a "F-king Robot"  But the version we got was as if Shaw had all forgiven David for everything he had done and came across as not being to badly effected as if all she been through was someone had split wine on her 2nd favorite dress.

So i think yes they are trying to Mold Daniels in a similar way to Ripley and we have to WATCH for Ridleys comments as he could be giving us a Red Herring and the Ripley Connection is just like how Daniels is to become the similar Character.... it would be like if we did not know David was a robot and then we found out latter after he had his head ripped off and Ridley after the movie had been out for a while said this is the Ash connection.

So we have to look at Daniels and ask... if they are trying to go the route of a Ripley Character are they going to have it where we see the Character Evolve...  like they did try with Short in Height Religious Scientist Shaw....  or do they have a more Hardened Roots to build up from like how Ripley was a Warrant Officer and so someone who had a bit of a tough attitude.

Or do we get the All-Ready Packaged Military kind of figure... so are they giving us more of a Vasquez?   when we see that one shot of her in the ships corridors the look and outfit.. fits the Vasquez mold more than Ripley

But its how do we get drawn into her to care about her, are we going to care more for a Military Toughie and especially if she is in on the Act so to speak....  but has a change of heart when she realizes the true extent of the objective? Would this be a bit of say a Burke in Aliens having a change of mind?  We already had the Tough Character who shows a softer side latter with Vickers.

We as of yet dont know how the Covenant finds Paradise but surely its not by Coincidence?  But we again have to ask if its a Mission where they have some idea of whats ahead why take a Colonists Ship there....  but then the same could be asked for why send the Nostomo in Aliens and maybe the answer is similar and maybe the Covenant just happens to be off some other place and then gets information that a more suitable place has been found to go to... this could explain maybe why they could send a Colony Ship because there is one already not far away... well closer to Paradise than others... this assumes the company gain a little information but not massive amount.

But we really dont know the whole Plot and Reasons for how the Covenant ends up at Paradise.

But if i carry on to this Topic in this post which is Daniels Character then yes at some point she becomes that Tough Female lead like a Ripley... but its how far  does the Character have to Evolve to this ROLE?

Is She prior to arriving at Paradise.

1) High Ranking Officer type like Ellen Ripley was in Alien

2) Is she some kind of Scientific/Medical Role. (important to the ship but not in chain of command).

3) Is she some kind of Security/Military Personnel (Vazquez)

4) Some kind of Corporate figure (Vickers).

5) Or is she just a Colonist with a Partner trying to make a new life but hostile encounters force her to change.

We have to ask which role and evolution would draw us into her Character more?


R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017


DeaconMember10237 XPOct-12-2016 3:41 PM

Onto your comment Deep Space

Indeed as its been discussed a bit on this post a few times, i think the potential to see at least some Evolution of some Character to Evolve/Transcend is highly possible.

a lot of the little clues could nudge towards seeing a Synthetic or a more Advanced kind of Synthetic being changed into something new...

Its a case of does this happen prior to the Covenant arriving or after?  If its David 8 thats Evolved we have to assume he wont be to far changed.. not like Elden as i feel it should cause for concern and caution with the Covenant Crew...  But saying that seeing him in a Engineer Under Pressure Suit like the one the Last Engineer wore prior to getting into the Pilot Chair... i feel this would not make the Covenant crew too suspicious.

I would assume someone gets evolved in this way, and it could be a Synthetic well non-human.....

But again we cant rule out what happens to Shaw, again i would think she is key to the Plot, but it does not appear she would play a massive role as far as screen time.. but we can still expect maybe she plays a big role in the Plot Device..

Could she be connected to  some kind of Experiment?

who knows... we have to remember Rapace is cast and so Shaw has 100% left LV-223 on that Juggernaught we just dont know what state she is in by the time David arrives at Paradise, or at very least after they arrive at Paradise but prior to before the Covenant arrives.

David is alone...  or so it would appear, and something is Evolving on Paradise something surely related to the Xenomorph or that plays a role in the chain of events that lead to it or something similar.

And so we have to ask where is Shaw then? it does seem that she could have fell foul to what ever plans David has for her and surely would he want to follow Shaws objective or has David got his own Agenda?

But we dont really know... Ridley teases a few things... but we cant be 100% sure..

But its safe to assume that one or more of these fit into the Evolving Creature or the Outbreak of Xenomorph related Monsters.


*David's Doppelganger

*David 8

However i think David 8 is the one pulling the strings behind all this and one or maybe both of those above will unfortunately be the Guinea Pig for what ever Horrors David creates.

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017


DeaconMember10237 XPOct-12-2016 4:13 PM

"I will add that my one bug bear with the synopsis is that it doesn't appear to be covering the why they made and then wanted to destroy us"

This should only really be a Bug to those who have not seen Prometheus those who had and especially those who took interest in it would know this was one of those burning Questions left from the first movie that sets up the whole supposed purpose of a sequel.

This is not included in the Synopsis because the Synopsis wont give us to much away... Prometheus did not give away much as far as finding out these Engineers had created Experiments meant for us that ended up getting out of control and killing them all (but maybe one) on that World that the Prometheus was heading to.

As Michelle covered the points i will cover these too, there is something we know from Ridleys comments and sets we have seen, and then we have ways we can interpret theses and fill in the gaps.... i knew someone who had spoken to someone who had some SUPPOSED information about Prometheus 2 Sequel as of Fall 2014 there information does give us a bit of insight into what could be going on in spite of maybe a Re-write that John Logan had done to the Final Draft... so we dont know how much is changed from Logans re-write to the Green Re-writes which the Source claimed their information was about... this assumes the Source is even Correct.

But i will only cover what we really know so far officially (include comments by Cast and Production).  And so as Michelle said.

1) The Covenant are arriving at what they would think is a uninhabited Earth Like World... but what they find eventually is a dark and dangerous world that has been the scene of a Disaster* (post Alien Covenant comment*)

Which to expand on what Michelle said, indeed prior to Alien Covenant Ridley confirmed David and Shaw would be off to the Engineers Homeworld and David is bringing Hell with him... they have taken a Juggernaught and its safe to assume this ship also has a Deadly Cargo.

We have a shot of a scene of some kind of Disaster/Punishment that seems to be taking place on a World related to the Engineers if not Paradise and upon beings who could be Engineers or related...  Its safe to assume these were once the inhabitants of Paradise....  but we dont know when this Scene had occuried..    

*Post David 8 and his Hell with him Cargo

*Prior to David 8 and some Ancient Event that explains a bit about the Downfall and Destruction of Engineer Society/Civilisation

There is a set photo of Ridley Scott in some kind of Catacomb or similar with Shelves that have Black Goo Urns.. but are these from David's Juggernaught or have they been there for a long time?

2) We know Shaw had asked David to take her to the Engineers Homeworld and not back to Earth as she wants answers, and without her help David we can assume is going no where, and without David's help Shaw is going no where... David offers Shaw a chance to go and seek her Answers.... But once David is put back together well Shaw is at every whim and mercy of David... she has no choice and David is very Persuasive.

Originally indeed they had arrived at the Engineers Homeworld and found some beings who where not Benevolent... David however was bringing Hell with him...  Ridley had thus informed us they was going to find some beings who are not nice.. which does not bold well for Shaw or David (look at what the Engineer did on LV-223 to a few of the crew) but Davids Hell Cargo could be the Ace in the Pocket... a Bargaining Chip?  Who knows.

Alien Covenant we are now arriving 10 years latter, a World where No One is home apart from David 8, no Shaw, no Engineers only something Evolving related to what the  Engineers had created... (created as in actually created, or as in David created via Tools at his disposal the Engineers had created).

So its still safe to assume as Rapace is cast that she will play some role.... but is it a Flash Back?  as the scene of disaster looks likely to not be set in the same time frame of after the Covenant arrives.. and so we could be seeing a lot of Aftermath.

Shaw must have made it to Paradise or at least she was on the Ship that David was flying to Paradise... but she is on where to be found... but will play a small part.... 

Did she get her answers? or has David used her to gain his answers?

3) David has managed to Navigate and Fly the Juggernaught,  Ridley had said Shaw does put him back together or helps him to be back in one piece...  Shaw is no Engineer and surely cant fix him up as good as new... and Ridleys comments hint at bigger things for David more than merely a Quick Fix Head stuck back on job..

How long does it take to Paradise, would Shaw be able to survive the journey by just hanging around the Juggernaught, its likely she has to fix David in some way and then end up in Cryo-Sleep.

The Engineer fused to the Chair in order to fly the ship, its safe to assume the Engineers Pressure Suits Holes are not for Ventilation or Show and maybe function as the old 80's Cartoon Characters from the Show Centurions 

If you watch this show, you will see the Engineers suits are like HR Giger versions of there suits... they can connect to various Technology.... so this is maybe how they fuse with the Space Jockey suits and Chair.

Is the Engineers suit therefore needed?  can the ship be flown by a David in his Weyland Industries Space Suit?   We can assume not...

Ridley has a big idea for how we find David back Whole again... its ambiguous but certainly is interesting....   We can at least assume that during the Journey David would not be sleeping... in Prometheus he was taking on board information and exploring the Ship and i would assume he would have done the same on the Juggernaught.

I do however feel we would arrive after the fact and so not to expect seeing David marvel in all the Engineer Tech and knowledge he would be getting his hands on.

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017


DeaconMember10237 XPOct-12-2016 4:30 PM

To expand on the other points Michelle made..

1) The movie seems to setting up for us first following the Colony Ship Covenant as it arrives at Paradise, its safe to assume we would see some scenes of them awakening from Cryo-Sleep and then some scenes where we can get acquainted to some of the Characters.

But for the most part the crew would be made of Colonist Couples who believe that they are arriving a un-populated Earth Like World to start a fresh new life.  They really would not be expecting what they are in store for... or maybe prepared.

2) The ships is a Colony ship, but then are we going to see the same kind of non-security prepped ship like the Nostromo? surely we are not going to see a Military Mission like the Sulaco but surely there would be some degree of Security in place like Prometheus had.

The ship has a Pilot, and we have a cast who are primarily couples but that does not mean we wont have a few more added cast who are not so credited like Prometheus had the Mechanics and Mercenary Protection.

The mission is a Weyland-Yutani funded mission and it would be interesting to see how much they know (the company) before sending Covenant to its destination... this would no doubt have a impact on any Corporate Personnel or the level of Security the ship may have.

3) Indeed its been company policy a lot to have a Synthetic on-board.... apart from the Nostomo but then Ash was added covertly but this was in part the company policy (unknown to the crew they was Synthetic).

So its very likely and well a certain that the ship has a Synthetic and maybe this is where David 8's Doppelganger comes in, as Fassbender is playing TWO Roles and one is David 8 but we have seen on set a Brown Haired Fassbender and i doubt Shaw has decided David needs a change of hair color after she puts him back together.

The interesting thing here is....

*do the Covenant Crew know they have a Synthetic? or is it a undercover job like Ash?  I would imagine once they find David 8 and notice he looks like a member of their crew they would start to come to conclusions (assuming they never seen a David model before).

*Is the Synthetic on the Covenant really a Synthetic? are they a more advanced, less Synthetic model like the Synthetic Construct in Fire and Stone Comics Elden?

The Synopsis does indicate David 8 is Synthetic which we should already know, and he said Fassbender also plays a Doppelganger and so why not say another David? and then there is that Big Idea....

Points to the Doppelganger  is either not quite Synthetic.... or that the Doppelganger or David 8 get upgraded/evolved into something less Synthetic.


R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017


DeaconMember10237 XPOct-13-2016 8:18 AM

If we try and look more to the OT Questions of what role does David play in Alien Covenant and what about Shaw then we can look at these points.

Previously a Prometheus Sequel was set up to follow David and Shaw who have left LV-223 on a Engineer Juggernaught off to the Homeworld (where the Last Engineer said they came from) Shaw has a lot of Questions she wanted to ask these Engineers IF/WHEN they find them...  These Questions would revolve around.

*Why was we created?

*Why did they visit us and leave clues to LV-223 and then abandon us?

*What was they doing on LV-223 and why did they wish to use what ever they was doing to destroy Mankind?

The original movie plan seemed to indeed show us that Shaw and David arrive at some world related to the Engineers but it is not no Paradise but more like Hell and they do find some beings who are not benevolent. They (Fox/Ridley) also had planned to make a sequel that would go off on a different Tangent to Alien and it would explore the Agenda behind these Engineers and why they created life and then would create such horrific experiments that would in effect destroy the life they had created... it would touch upon the Agenda behind the Engineers, a insight into what they was thinking when they created us to when they created those experiments on LV-223 to destroy us.....  it appeared they wanted to step away from  the Xenomorph as far as showing us more deeper clues to it or go and show us more Xeno DNA and Monsters more closer to the Original rather than the mildly connected Organisms we saw in Prometheus.

If Shaw had hoped to get answers she may not get quite the answers she wanted as these beings related to the Engineers are not benevolent towards us.  But David was bringing Hell and what would happen if the Black Goo infected a God or Machine.  So Ridleys plans for Prometheus 2 seemed to be going the route to show us.

*Shaw and David do indeed get to Paradise

*Shaw would have had to put David back together

*They find beings on Paradise who are not Benevolent

*Paradise is more like Hell, and those beings more like the Devil

*The Engineers are more like Fallen Angels

*We would not be getting a movie that would follow directly to the events of Alien and we may not be getting Xenomorphs but a movie that would cover the purpose and Agenda of the Engineers and those above.

*We would however find out why we was created, and why the Horrific Experiments on LV-223 was created for.. so mild links to the Xenomorph but perhaps a better explanation for the purpose of LV-223 and why Earth was a Target.

How this would have ended? is anyone's Guess, but it would appear that David is a Key Character again and would no doubt survive the Movie and we would get a 3rd one.  And it would appear we would find out more about the Engineers Agenda, and while these beings are Dangerous there must have been something David has in his favor to make sure he survived,  we would get more insight into WHY both Mankind was created and the Black Goo Bio-Weapon thats related to the Xenomorph.

For David to survive we have to wander what would Force these Hostile non-benevolent beings to not be able to Destroy David... does David unleash Hell on them... or in some way he can make a Covenant?


The Source had given information upon the sequel at a time when Ridley had said No more Gods and Dragons and the movie would further step totally away from Alien.... but the Source claimed the movie was very much Gods and a bit of Dragons.  But we cant say for sure if the Source was in anyway correct.


So now we have Alien Covenant....  and from the Synopsis we have a missing Shaw, and no Engineers....

We arrive at a time 10 years after Prometheus where a Weyland-Yutani Colony Ship (USCSS Covenant) is arriving at the same place that David and Shaw had set off to 10 years prior, in what this Crew believe would be a un-inhabited Paradise....  But they find that the world is a Dark and Dangerous World and the only sole survivor is David 8

But there is something Evolving on Paradise, a Evolving Creature that they (Engineers) created, or at least their Evil Biology had created.

The Covenant crew would for the most part not be aware of what they would discover and so no doubt finding David would be a surprise and our David can be manipulative and persuasive and so it would be interesting to see How and What he does to explain why he was there.....

He surely would not be telling the whole truth..

Fassbender said David was a fun Character to play and he was Creepy which means he has some alternative non benevolent motive hidden behind a persuasive Character.

David is not alone, there is the Evolving Creature and at some point the Covenant Crew would come across and be introduced to this creature and we would see the aftermath as the Crew being killed off one by one.

We are to see multiple Chest Busters and so this evolving creature that is discovered must have means to Procreate unless the Evolving Creature could mean more than one...

David would no doubt be the Main Character again, Ridley has invested in Fassbender having Two Roles and also a Big Idea for his Character.  

We have to logically ask how come David is alone? Is he aware of this Evolving Creature and what part has he played in its Evolution...   Ridley has hinted that the Black Goo plays a connection to the Xenomorph, and in this movie we would find out HOW and WHY the Xenomorph would have come to be and WHY it was Bio-Mechanical.

If they created it (Engineers) what % of the final and eventual Xenomorph are they responsible for and what % is David?  For Ridley to hint that we find out why the Xenomorph was Bio-Mechanical must mean that the events in Prometheus both from the Past (LV-223 outbreak) and the Deaths to the Prometheus Crew at the hands of the Black Goo did not have a Bio-Mechanical DNA to it yet.

But somehow a event in Alien Covenant would show us this, is this a event from the past... prior to David's arrival?  or post David's arrival but prior to the Covenant turning up?  Or a event after the Covenant arrives?

We cant be sure, but regardless of this Evolving Creature being something David played a role in or not..... we can be sure the way the Covenant Crew are drawn in and then affected by the interaction with this Evolving Creature is something that David definitely plays a part in.

Its logical to assume David has a idea of this Evolving Creature, the movie would show us how the Xenomorph could eventually be Bio-Mechanical compared to what the Black Goo showed us.

David had brought the Black Goo with him, there is a scene where we would see the Urns but are they from a past, or is the scene we have seen a shot off (Ridley Scott in front of Shelves with Urns) something related to David bringing them to that place?

We cant be sure, but we can safely assume that what ever this Evolving Creature is... it has not finished Evolving yet to become anything close to the Xenomorph but we would be shown it evolving towards this and you can bet that David plays the main part in this..

We will however see Shaw, but in a smaller role.... we can only assume what this is.....  but we are left in the AFTERMATH of what ever David and Shaw found on Paradise when they arrived as we can assume well before the Covenant... and ask how come Shaw is not with David when the Covenant turn up?

And what about those Engineers?

Why is the movie called Covenant and who made such a Agreement could this explain the where abouts of Shaw and the Engineers?

And so yes while we dont know what role any Engineers play, regardless of if David and Shaw found any or just ruined civilization that had seen Disaster, David will at the very least get the answers that Shaw wanted...

David could well have his own Agenda.... and what ever wishes Shaw had would take the back seat to what ever plans David has... why would Shaw be in hiding?  If they never found any Engineers how would Shaw feel and get her answers...? If there was Engineers how would this turn out for Shaw....

What ever had happened to the Engineers and Shaw, i think we can assume David had a massive part in this...   If there was no Engineers then David would have a idea of what happened and no doubt find out and maybe give Shaw her answers.... but at what cost?

So yes in some way David is pivotal to the Plot... regarding seeing a Evolution  from the Black Goo to what ever Horrors befell the Crew of the Covenant.


R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

Michelle Johnston

ChestbursterMember759 XPOct-13-2016 8:20 AM

@BD & DS

I have absolutely no idea how Covenant flows from Prometheus and how the Covenant narrative works. However what I offer is based on two things "Whats the point" and "what will not work" 

This is a movie about the Covenant which comes into a pre existing story of a two part David and Michael playing two roles and Shaw playing a small role. They come to a planet which is not what they think it is and their is an evolving creature and post disaster society. These are facts so how do you use them baring in mind Michael has confirmed what I indicated the moment I came to this forum this is going to be a pacey movie with a strong narrative set inside some big ideas where the director and final screen writer are happy to use the Xenomorph.    

Good Drama and the franchises related motif's would suggest :-

1) The Covenant has two agendas. Why I think Daniels is military and not a couple is the way she look she survives and she is holding a damn great weapon in her revealed shot. I think she and D C know the truth. 

2) They come to place where David knows they are coming he has baited them (has to make sense and its quick connectively, think of all the options they are either lame, complicated or a plot hole).

3) Shaw is in for continuity technically alive she ain't interacting with the Covenant crew think of other movies where stars play cameos after about 8 days of work. Probably two scenes at the most where she starts and where she finishes. How can you use her in an interesting way and make her victim this seems a slam dunk to me she is part of the Xeno trigger story.

Going back to David 8 he looks like David 8 (prometheus continuity but he is transformed and that will play into D8 verses DC) these two roles need to be antagonists for a tent pole).

The strange woman I have a still of the head, I am more convinced  than ever the body is out of alignment with the head particularly on the right hand side and if you look at images of Noomi there is a Prom one where her mouth is identical to the still.  But hay ho lets wait and see.   


DeaconMember10237 XPOct-13-2016 8:46 AM

Another Key Element is the First Image of the New Xenomorph

Ridley has said as well as finding out why the Engineers created such Evil Biology and what was they thinking.... we would not only come across a Evolving Creature that the Engineers created but at some point we would find out why the Xenomorph was Bio-Mechanical.

Well the image of the Hand above is Tagged where it all begins.. meaning they could imply this shows us where something Evolves to become the Xenomorph.

This hand is not like the Xenomorphs, it is not Bio-Mechanical its digits are not the same, or the hand itself.

The Source claimed that (February 2015) so a long time before any information came out, that the planned Prometheus 2 would have not ONE but TWO Monsters.... both would be different from each other but we could trace connection in both to the 1979 Xenomorph.

One Monster is from a previous event and not at the hands of David but the other is from a event at the hands of David.  They claimed the one Monster was very related to the HR Giger Necronom IV and the Ultramorph concept from Spaights Alien Engineers, below i will show his TWO Ultramorph Concepts.

Note the Hand in this looks much more like the Alien Covenant Hand, at first i thought the Alien Covenant hand had 5 digits but it seems the Thumb is split into a double digit.... This Ultramorph has 5 digits but it has a 6th coming from its arm..

Here is the other Ultramorph and this one has 6 digits and apart from how these digits are laid out...  these hands look more like the Alien Covenant Hand than the 1979 Xenomorphs.

These Ultramorphs do have a Bio-Mechanical look but its not as Mechanical as the 1979 Alien.

Not to long ago, we had various images of the Alien Covenant Clapper Board which had the image of the HR Giger Necronom IV on it of which the Ultramorph was based.

Does this mean something similar could be connected?

The Source claimed the other Monster was supposed to be based off the Original Design but a more Fresher take on it.... whats interesting is the Original Design was the Necronom IV Ridley got Giger to design something that combined his Neconom 4 and Necronom 3 ideas into a New Monster....  before HR Giger had arrived at the final designs that the 1979 Alien was based off he had designed Two Other Creatures.

For the Source to claim TWO Monsters who are different and One is based off the Necronom 4 and they are both different to each other and yet similar to the Xenomorph in Alien... to me rules out the other one being based off Neconom 4/Ultramorph and also not looking like the Final Xenomorph....

This was a hint that the Two Monsters are different to the 1979 Alien, and there is also some differences between Monster One and Monster Two and they are from Two different events which David plays a role in the latter.

While i can never say the Source is correct.... things do add up...

If there is a Evolving Creature....  but the movie shows us how the Xenomorph becomes Bio-Mechanical....  and looking at the "where it all begins" Hand.. thats clearly not Bio-Mechanical.

It could be safe to assume this is the Evolving Creature that the Engineers Created.... but maybe some event at the hands of David leads to us seeing something that Evolves to show us how the Xenomorph becomes Bio-Mechanical.

This means TWO Monsters surely?

Alien Covenant is not directly going to link to Alien, we have Two more movies to do that and we have to ask if the Final Xenomorph is revealed in this movie, can they really pull off Two more movies with this seen to death Monster before we get Alien? especially with a Alien 5 on the Horizon?

So could Alien Covenant potentially show us a less Bio-Mechanical Creature that plays a role in to becoming Bio-Mechanical with David playing a role in this... and could this Bio-Mechanical Creature actually not be 100% the Xenomorph but a middle stage to get to this point?


Evolving Creature ==> Davids Experiment ==>Bio-Mechanical Creature ==> Evolves to the Xenomorph?

Certainly fit in with the proposed 3 movies to Alien... and also matches what the Source Claimed.




R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

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