Why the Engineers created us and why they ultimately decided to destroy us

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Kozmoz

MemberOvomorphJune 24, 2012
I firstly want to say that I enjoyed Prometheus, The film has its flaws but it challenges me to think about big ideas and concepts about existence and I love it for that. Why did the Engineers create us? That answer is simple. Our own Search for other extra terrestrial civilisations has shown that the cosmos in its vastness is barren when it comes to other forms intelligent beings. The engineers IMO revere intelligent life, without this the cosmos is a barren void. There are plenty of worlds that contain basic microbe, plant and animal life but nothing that is advanced or has evolved self awareness. Most life forms that have the potential to evolve into intelligent life are wiped out due to some cosmic cataclysm before evolution can run its course and produce intelligent technological societies. The engineer that seeded the earth sacrificed his own life by donating his biology, using his genetic genome to create a line of evolution that has a high probability of producing complex organisms and eventually us. The result of this ritualistic sacrifice is a race of Self-aware and intelligent beings that share the genome of their creators. Why did they choose to destroy us? The clue to answering this question lies in the cave paintings discovered by Elizabeth Shaw at the start of the film. The God like figure in those paintings is pointing to a star system and Dr Shaw interprets this as an invitation to go and find them. I believe this to be true, the paintings are an ‘invitation’ but not just in the literal sense. The figure that is pointing to the star system is not only inviting us to join them. He is challenging us to aspire to become greater then we are. In my opinion, the engineers represent physical and spiritual perfection. They appear to be physically superior, but the demonstration of how willing they are to sacrifice themselves to create new life shows that they are a race of beings that are selfless and have a high spiritual awareness. For us to earn the approval of such beings, and meet their expectations we must not only grow as a technological species but as a selfless and spiritually aware civilisation. Had we achieved this, the base on Lv 223 would have been occupied by emissaries waiting to make contact and guide us to the next stage in our evolution. Instead, we failed and the military were sent in and the base was converted into a facility for manufacturing our demise. I don’t believe that the engineers decided to wipe us out because we failed to worship them, a highly advanced intellectual race would not be so childish or petty. The whole point of religion is to seek a higher level of spiritual awareness, it was never about worship. This is the problem with religion in the real world. All to often we miss the point. The collection of pictograms that we see at the start of the film show us that the engineers were very patient with us and sent emissaries for many thousands of years to teach and guide us towards becoming something greater than we are. That is the whole point behind the cave paintings. “Aspire to be like us and join us. When you are ready this is where you will find us” We worshiped them like gods because through the lens of an ancient human the engineers would easily be seen as supernatural deities. But worship is not what the engineers were ultimately after. In the end, the human race squandered what we were given, 2000 years ago Mankind was brutal, (and unfortunately we still are) we waged war for greed and power and enslaved those that were seen as inferior. Through an act of selfless sacrifice, the human race was given the gift of existence and instead of using it to aspire towards a higher state of physical, mental and spiritual being, we were squandering it. Time to wipe the slate clean and offer the gift of existence to a species that could potentially be more worthwhile. This is my interpretation of the film, a purposeful look at existence, religion and the origins of human life.
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Hadley's Hope
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Have you by any chance noticed a thread called "[url=http://www.prometheus-movie.com/community/forums/topic/8616]Why Humans were created? Why they were to be destroyed?[/url]" ? And why do you assume that a) the Engineers created humans b) they decided to destroy us. ? Have a think about how much is conjecture, how much is proven, and then consider the alternative explanations for what is on screen. I think you'll enjoy it.
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Gavin
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@ Hadley's Hope... Everyone is entitled to their opinions, and the OP is stating a different theory to that suggested in the thread you link. Furthermore, and to answer the assumptions you state... A) The Engineers are virtually identical to us physically and genetically, and it's pretty clear the film is stating the Engineers are our creators. B)It's also very clear in the film they intended to wipe us out, not only 2000 years ago but again when they woke up the surviving Engineer. If you have some other, provable explanation then please voice them...

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Hadley's Hope
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The thread I link to is a QUESTION, and it is the same question. This guy has a different answer, and I've no problem with that, I'm just saying, it's a duplicate thread. As for provable explanations, there are none in favour of what you've stated, nor the alternative. It is not at all clear that the film is stating that these guys are our creators. It is clear that Ridley Scott opens that door (which may be a trap door), but there's not one shred of proof that scene 1 is on Earth, nor in the distant past. It is also not clear that they intended to wipe us all out. Why is it assumed, because David said something cryptic to Shaw, who drew her own conclusions which matched her biblical Armageddod fears, and she then fed them into Janek's WMD fears. But as I've mentioned before, the pattern of David's speech is that he speaks plainly when telling the truth, and vaguely when wishing to mislead. He was not plain speaking in this case. I have argued that there is circumstantial evidence that all these missions to Earth involve bringing humans to LV 223 - The Space Jockeys can breathe that toxic local atmosphere, and yet there is an atmosphere generated inside the Dome, which is perfect for humans - the hangar set up is perfect for transferring from the ship to the tunnel without passing through the outside atmosphere. - the spacing of the urns in the chamber is more in proportion to humans than Space Jockeys. If each of the visits to Earth, involevd rounding up awe-struck humans, convinced that they were meeting their makers (especially if treated to a 3d holographic light show of the star system) then the labs on LV 223 would be kept busy in a way that would also fit the description of 'to create, one must destroy'. And if one the things produced in that lab, was race of strong obedient slaves with no body hair or skin pigment and superior size, that could also explain the DNA match (much more likely than the idea that throwing fragments of DNA into a primordial environment, would after billions of years produce an identical genome.) The urns are nasty, but they don't seem to be designed for dispersal like a bomb or torpedo. They seem to actually work best in close quarters confined areas, rather than battlefield condtions. So the victim is brought to the weapon, rather than vice versa. Also, if the plan was to wipe us out, why was this not done in the 2 subsequent visits (Hawai'i 7th century being the most recent.) ? And as I said, I've no problem that the OP's opinions are different to mine. It would be a boring place with no discussion if we all agreed, but that's what the comments on threads are, discussion on a topic. Posting the same question is duplication.
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Hadley's Hope
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[u]If you have some other, provable explanation then please voice them...[/u] And we HAVE had this exchange in the other thread already, I have voiced this alternate interpretation. Which is why duplicate threads get boring very quickly.
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Gavin
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As you state the answer the OP gives is different, therefore it is not a duplicate thread, it is another member stating a different theory to that offered by the OP in the thread you link. Also, the points you bring up are valid points, but they do not disprove the theories of the assumptions of the OP of this thread, rather your points ask questions posed in the film to which no current answers are known. Therefore we as fans of the film and the universe in which it is set hypothesize, postulate and speculate theories, ideas and assumptions to answer those questions. That being the purpose of these forums. You have your opinion, your views, your theories and your assumptions, and I have mine, and the OP of this thread has theirs.

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Hadley's Hope
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I have a different take on moderating forums and what constitutes duplicate threads. I am not, of course moderating [u]this[/u] forum. I was merely trying to be helpful, in case the OP was unaware of a pre-existing thread where s/he could add her/his opinion to the others, on what are only 2 pages of comments thus far. I never said I can disprove the assumptions, because almost nothing in the film is conclusive. There is no need to hammer home the whole 'diversity of opinion' bit, you are pushing on an already open door. I ask people why they make certain assumptions, because I find it makes for better discussions to know what they base their positions on. It is not a challenge to their right to differ.
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Hadley's Hope
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Oh, and seeing as Kozmoz is a new member, welcome to the forum!
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Richie
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Hadleys Hope raises some outstanding food for thought...I like the urns were created for a close contact theory... But then, when they enter this chamber, the actual rush of air triggers changes in the whole room and the urns start to leak. So now, I am back to it can be disperesed aerially....got me an impasse here
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Hadley's Hope
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It is triggered by the atmosphere, not spread by it. Much like a frozen ebola sample isn't airborne, but thaw it out in a well and anything that drinks the water is screwed. Remember that ancient cultures were barefoot or in open-toed sandals, not walking around in hi tech waterproof space boots. Standing in a pool of black goo might be all it takes, after all, we do absorb things through the pores of the skin.
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Gavin
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What I think richie is trying to say is that the contents of the urns could be deployed in the atmosphere, whereby it would spread across the Earth unseen, infecting people by both contact, and consumption of food and drinking water, much like how the "spores" were spread in Invasion of the Bodysnatchers.

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Hadley's Hope
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It's possible, but why such small urns then? It's inefficient. A few large tanks connected to an aerial dispersal system, they could spray us like crops. Drop the stuff like rain over cities, water reservoirs. There's no sign of a deployment mechanism in the cargo hold. They are stacked like pots. But of course, this would be a bit trickier given that their ships are vulnerable to our technology, and can be shot out of the sky, much like the prometheus brought one down. But rather than argue over the viability of doing this, I think we are getting away from, whether or not it is even the case. Was Shaw doing a [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henny_Penny]chicken little[/url] impression, or did she really hit the nail on the head? Under pressure, we don't always make good decisions, but if you're going to ask a man to kill himself based on your advice, it would be prudent to have checked things out properly. Simple things like asking "Okay, David... what EXACTLY do you mean by that cryptic statement" would have been useful and hardly difficult to do. He could either say "Well, Dr. Shaw, they intend to wipe the Earth clean of homo sapiens" or something like "Their plan was to kidnap a few hundred 1st century desert dwellers and bring them back here to do horrible things to them". Janek might not have been quite so willing to kill himself if scenario 2 where the case.
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Gavin
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if this kidnap theory was viable, I would expect remains/evidence of humans within the temple on LV-223. Instead what we see are hundreds, if not thousands of urns containing the means to produce a Xenomorph MKII. A possible theory as to how it could be spread via the atmosphere is by dropping the urns from orbit, which then burn up upon entry into our atmosphere, spreading the contents as previous mentioned. Lots of urns would help ensure a widespread deployment of the substance to infect the ecosystem of the planet. Personally, I actually think the idea of dispersal in the atmosphere makes a lot of sense, and is a viable theory for how the Engineers may have intended to spread the substance. It would also have the means to bypass 2094 technology, and is an effective deployment method over the deployment of eggs.

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Hadley's Hope
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Actually that article is full of holes. [u]if this kidnap theory was viable, I would expect remains/evidence of humans within the temple on LV-223. Instead what we see are hundreds, if not thousands of urns containing the means to produce a Xenomorph MKII. [/u] Why would they not tidy up and dispose of remains, after (if they are not dead themselves)? Also, if they are not killed but instead altered, there would be no remains lying around. [u]A possible theory as to how it could be spread via the atmosphere is by dropping the urns from orbit, which then burn up upon entry into our atmosphere, spreading the contents as previous mentioned. Lots of urns would help ensure a widespread deployment of the substance to infect the ecosystem of the planet. [/u] You're assuming the black goo would survive those temperatures, rather than being destroyed. [u]Personally, I actually think the idea of dispersal in the atmosphere makes a lot of sense, and is a viable theory for how the Engineers may have intended to spread the substance. It would also have the means to bypass 2094 technology, and is an effective deployment method over the deployment of eggs.[/u] There could be a way of doing, it, sure, I think not the most efficient, but there's no conclusive evidence that their plan was a worldwide genocide. It would be rather pointless, and the plan was devised 2,000 years ago, when Earth's population was not only defenceless but numbered less than the current US population. What would be the point of flying 35 light years to wipe out 200 million bronze age humans with primitive technology? And we still have the question, why was such a plan not executed by two later visits?
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Gavin
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Not wipe out but harvest, as for the later visits, that is discussed in this [url=http://www.prometheus-movie.com/community/forums/topic/7023]THREAD[/url].

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Hadley's Hope
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That still involves wiping us out effectively. And from the OP of that thread (and I'm not going to read 105 comments, if you're not prepared to summarise the point) it's not clear why the plan would not go ahead, if one ship was taken out. What would prevent the next visit from initiating the 'harvest role'?
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Gavin
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To summarize - those that invited us after the 2000 year mark may not have received the "memo" that the game plan had changed, or it could be, as another posted suggested another faction of Engineers.

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Hadley's Hope
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Well, that's entirely speculative, and presupposes a poor communication system in an advanced culture. An internal conflict is a possibility. I think the alternative, that Shaw jumped to conclusions is also still in the running. I think if/when the sequel hits, fewer people will rely on Shaw's interpretation of what's going on, than did so in Prometheus.
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Forever War
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Kozmoz Nice job with this clear summation, it covers a lot of what I got from the film, and for me it's irrelevant if bits of it appear elsewhere on the site, I think you pull it together very well. We simply don't get all that many films like this that require association and extrapolation, actual thinking on our part at the same time we get to see the story unfold and the characters' parts engage the environment of the film. Your thoughts that humans squandered what we were given is so well expressed and I think in the film humans had one small chance to avoid getting the slate wiped clean and that was Shaw's interaction with the Engineer. I'm looking forward to the home release to provide clarification on this small chance, but I don't think the film really suffers without more of what I'm looking for and the result would have been the same...the Engineer dies. He could have easily killed her in the juggernaut like the others and he could have done the same in the lifeboat instead of taking the time to pin her down, holding her..for what? I think that Ridley had a way to depict the Engineer giving Shaw a chance to tell or demonstrate to him why he should not go to Earth and wipe the slate clean...it may be in the BluRay, it may not, but as I said, the results would be the same...Shaw caused his death in her own panic, terror, and misunderstanding.
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jaystein777
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From Sir Ridley Scott himself: "If you look at it as an 'our children are misbehaving down there' scenario, there are moments where it looks like we've gone out of control, running around with armor and skirts, which of course would be the Roman Empire. And they were given a long run. A thousand years before their disintegration actually started to happen. And you can say, 'Let's send down one more of our emissaries to see if he can stop it.' Guess what? They crucified him." [url=http://geektyrant.com/news/2012/6/11/ridley-scott-reveals-the-engineers-true-intentions-is-it-con.html]Your text to link here...[/url]
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jaystein777
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Thank you Forever War. Well, how I interpreted what Scott was saying is that they removed the "Jesus" connection from the script not the story, but now that we'll most likely see a sequel we'll just have to wait and see. =) And as for Ridley Scott dropping interview bombs he seems to do it quite often as with the case when he revealed that Deckard was a Replicant....
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jaystein777
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Well, I'm perfectly willing to accept what Scott is saying in that quote. A link to the info that he "dropped" that idea would be appreciated. Here's a link to the full interview: [url=http://www.movies.com/movie-news/ridley-scott-prometheus-interview/8232?wssac=164&wssaffid=news]Your text to link here...[/url] I haven't read the entire interview as of this posting, so this is still unanswered....
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Forever War
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Ridley likes to yank chains of all types, he's a pro at PR as well as laying his visions out. When we see the home release become available, I'm sure he'll have some more zingers to stir up the rabble.
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Hadley's Hope
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He said he dropped that idea. And let me ask you something. Which do you consider more likely : a) Ridley Scott will give away an important plot detail for the sequel, akin to telling people before "Empire Strikes Back" that Luke is Darth Vader's son. or b) He's trolling, and enjoying the hype it creates around his film. ? There is at least one other example where he does something like this, which would impact on the sequel depending on what way he answers.
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Forever War
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[url=http://babbleon5.wordpress.com/2012/06/11/prometheus-the-greatest-story-ever-told/]Full context here[/url] jaystein....Thats the interview thats been all over the place "We definitely did, and then we thought it was a little too on the nose" Thats the operative phrase in him dropping that idea
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jaystein777
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Very excited about the Blu-Ray release. Hope there's lots of goodies in there...
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Hadley's Hope
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[u]And as for Ridley Scott dropping interview bombs he seems to do it quite often as with the case when he revealed that Deckard was a Replicant....[/u] Did he do that while the film was still in theatres? And with a sequel in planning?
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Hadley's Hope
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[u]"If you look at it as an 'our children are misbehaving down there' scenario, there are moments where it looks like we've gone out of control, running around with armor and skirts, which of course would be the Roman Empire. And they were given a long run. A thousand years before their disintegration actually started to happen. And you can say, 'Let's send down one more of our emissaries to see if he can stop it.' Guess what? They crucified him."[/u] And if we're to be wiped out for that event 2,000 years ago... only to be saved by an accident and an oversleeping 'angel of death', how come when two later visits result in cave drawings (most recently in 7th Century Hawai'i) no wrath was delivered? That seems to put a bit of a hole in the 'revenge for killing jesus' theory.
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artyoh
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"Too on the nose" means it would piss off Christians if they [i]explicitly[/i] went there. IMO, it just illustrates how there's a direct correlation between specificity and cheese-factor in any "ancient astronaut" human origins story. It's unavoidable, given all the pop-cultural goofiness associated with the entire subject.

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