hoxFacehuggerMember457 XPFeb-18-2022 12:30 PM
Hmmm. About the time that the Prometheus sets off on its journey, then. How does that work, when David allegedly creates the Alien, some years after that?
XenotarisPraetorianMember3628 XPFeb-18-2022 12:44 PM
well in some sources, David merely recreates the xenomorph that the engineers had already made. But this doesn't make any sense with covenant because everyone will be dead before the colonization project even began, FTL is slower in PROMETHEUS then it is in ALIENS
XenotarisPraetorianMember3628 XPFeb-18-2022 12:48 PM
However from what Big Dave revealed they are using David's xenomorph instead of the original Engineer xenomorph
BigDaveDeaconMember10325 XPFeb-19-2022 12:42 AM
This is KIND OF some Interesting News but its also a BIT of a Confusion. When it was announced the TV Show would be SET in the NOT too Distant Future and would be Centered around and MAINLY on Earth..... this seemed to me to mean we would be at least 50 Years before ALIEN but at least 25 Years from Now.... so i thought we would be looking at a 2047-2072 Ball Park.
We got the Impression the Action would be on Earth and eventually it would see the Xenomorph and it would also be a Action Heavy TV Show once we get DEEP into the Xenomorph Outbreak. This would CONTRADICT the Original Movies and Prequels if its SET on Earth and Prior to those Movies.
Hence i was DRAWN to this being a Ret-Con....of sorts.
It seemed it would NOT Focus on W-Y but other Corporations and this was ANOTHER reason i thought we have a Reboot of Sorts on our Hands.
HOWEVER..... with this News about the Show being SET in 70 Years and so 2092 this PLACES it within the same Year that the PROMETHEUS Mission would have Occurred.. and so the Prometheus Mission would either had been Preparing (Employing Crew etc) or Began its Voyage during the Events of the SHOW!
I am sure we can see where some Conflicts are going to Happen (Example while the Prometheus is on its way to LV-223, then we somehow have Xenomorphs on Earth!).
If the TV Show is NOT a Reboot and so FITS as Canon to the Movies... so while there is a Xenomorph Outbreak on Earth the USCSS Prometheus is on its way to LV-223 then i cant see HOW this cant go and CONFLICT the Prequels..
Especially if the Xenomorph is Discovered away from EARTH.
The Original Idea behind the Xenomorph with RS when working on the Prequels was they was a ENGINEERED Weapon by the Engineers.... Prometheus decided to TONE this DOWN.. but show the Black Goo and other Clues to Draw us to Conclude that WHAT was going on with LV-223 has some Connection to LV-426 (RS even explained it in a Interview, something on LV-223 had EVOLVED in the Cargo Hold of the Derelict, the Pilot Infected then headed to LV-426 to Quarantine the Ship.
The Next Two Movies would STEER AWAY from LV-426 and would NOT go and give us the Xenomorph of Explanation... it would instead at some POINT show that David would become Fascinated with the Black Goo Bio-Weapon and its Potential to Create Horrific Life... that HE would Create his OWN MONSTER after he unleashes the Black Goo on the Engineers and sees the Results (another Type of Monster), he decides to CREATE/ENGINEER his OWN....
You would NOT need to know WHAT came First and How as FAR as the Chicken and the Egg.... if you say SHOWED what came First with the Snake and the Egg... if you Get what i mean?
But come Spring 2015 they had Decided to Change Plans... in what then during the Summer would become Alien Covenant, where we would GET the Xenomorph (seemed RS felt it was NOT needed, but ALAS) and so at some POINT it was Decided that NOT ONLY do we go and SHOW the Origins to the Xenomorph... the Curve-ball would be that David had Created it.
Confusion happened after the NOVEL had indicated otherwise, but this appears to be Alan Dean Foster putting his OWN SPIN on it in Disagreement/Disappointment that David would be the Creator.... but the 4 Drafts of Alien Covenant had NONE of the Additions he made.
The Fanbase was UP IN ARMS over the David Creator Arc..... when we get to some of the Later Comics (2018+) and the RPG Game its implied again the Xenomorph had Existed prior to David, but they did so in a WAY that made a BIT more sense than what ADF was implying in the Novel which makes NO SENSE!
Unless you take Commentary and Comments by RS as Not Canon and IF you pay NO attention to Davids Notes/Drawings (which are not Clearly Detailed in the Movie) then can not 100% Clarify that David created the Xenomorph and with NO MORE Prequels its LEFT as OPEN.
Regarding Davids Xenomorph in the TV Series, what i mean is it seems that Aesthetically it is more in Common with Davids Design than we see in ALIEN/ALIENS (more Organic and Gestates with all 4 Limbs) and so much like the Runner from Alien 3 too (Organic and born Fully Formed).
BigDaveDeaconMember10325 XPFeb-19-2022 12:57 AM
What can we make of this a Surprise would mean that we would either see something we NEVER EXPECT, something from the Prior Movies (not inc the Xenomorph) or a Surprising Thing about the Xenomorph thats either New or something Planned but Unused.
As they claim Surprises this means more than ONE....
They Confirm that NONE of the Characters in ALIEN will appear and it WONT be a Ripley Story so NO like Relatives to her....
This does-not mean we wont see Characters (or other things) from the Prequels... i am NOT sure they would Budget for having Fassbender make a Appearance though.... But as for Guy Pearce? Who knows... this does-not mean the Actual Weyland on the Prometheus, we could have Flash Backs or just his Image used?
But this is Wild Speculation at Best.............
However.... the TV Show which will be set between 2092-2099 Ball Park would mean its LIKELY to take place after the Prometheus has Departed and maybe even AFTER the Prometheus Mission went to POT!
What state is Weyland Industries in after Prometheus? so maybe dealing with this and introducing Yutani as well as other Corporations could be what to Expect.
Surprise could also be we see a Engineer Ship.... does some Company go to LV-223 between say 2094-2099 and bring something BACK to Earth?
What we have seen so FAR is a Structure that resembles the Engineers Architecture/Designs from the Juggernauts which appears to be Partially Flooded.... do they Discover a Ship thats been UNDERWATER for a LONG TIME?
I think the TV Show could Connect/Show some things Connected to the Prequels... well Prometheus rather than from ALIEN/ALIENS so No Colonial Marines etc.
We can only Speculate.... i am Concerned this would CONFLICT the Franchise though... unless its a ALTERNATIVE TAKE.
XenotarisPraetorianMember3628 XPFeb-19-2022 11:08 AM
Oh and here I thought Alan Dean Foster based his book on a pre-shooting script version of Alien Covenant
BigDaveDeaconMember10325 XPFeb-20-2022 1:07 AM
Yes he had worked the Novel off a Script, but it seems the Additions about HOW it was that David Explained he had NOTHING to do with the EGG and he FOUND it as it was, and it was HIGHLY AGGRESSIVE so he had to DESTROY IT. These seem to be additional STUFF that he added.
The last 2 Drafts (inc Shooting) have NOT been released but i would BET that the additions that ADF made are NOT in those Scripts too. Prior to the Release and After we have Ridley Scott indicating then CONFIRM that the Xenomorphs Creation was STARTED by David.
I think the KEY thing to look at is to look at the Drafts, you will see Alien Covenant has made some Changes but for the MOST PART the Movie is the Drafts..... and when we look at the Drafts it is NOT indicated at all that the Engineers have KEPT/STORED anything related to LV-223/Xeno-Virus and Horrors on Planet 4. The same goes with the Movie (there is Davids Lab but thats his OWN WORK).
So we have to Consider the Following........
IF the Egg was already in that Room and Highly Aggressive then....
*Would the Engineers be so STUPID to KEEP such a Danger within that VERY IMPORTANT building to their Species?
*IF David was the MAIN survivor on Planet 4 (Pathogen has no Effect on him) then WHY would the Face Hugger be Considered a Danger to him? If its Aggressive then HOW would that Effect David?
*WHY would David go on to Create yet EVEN MORE of these Eggs? His Xenomorph seems more Aggressive/Feral than the ones in ALIEN/ALIENS. So WHY would he go Destroy it to Create more Aggressive Ones?
*IF there already was a EGG then WHY would he waste his TIME with those Experiments? And his NOTES etc, does he TRY and Create something NOT as Perfect and then SOME-HOW with the Dead Face Hugger and Dr Shaw he managed to THEN go and Create those Eggs.
It seems that IF we had it that David had Found the EGG then surely he would concentrate on Clone that with the Black Goo to Create the Eggs.... it seems Waste Time doing other stuff..... What the Drafts, his Lab Notes/Drawings go on to Show is that he Painstakingly went through a Labor or Love to Finally Create the Xenomorph.
I have NOT read the RPG Material but it seems the IDEA is that the Black Goo contains Xeno-Dna and via Certain Events eventually the Xenomorph would EVOLVE from the Black Goo and Creations from it... at some point the Xenomorph will ALWAYS be the End Product/Evolution.
A BETTER Explanation could be USED.... which i will ADD in my Topic about the CREATOR.
XenotarisPraetorianMember3628 XPFeb-20-2022 11:50 AM
I haven't got to the Alien Covenant novelization yet so I didn't know the details. I am still on the ALIENS novelization
hoxFacehuggerMember457 XPFeb-20-2022 3:08 PM
You have to take the novelisations with a pinch of salt. I'm pretty sure I read in one of the ADF novels that xenomorphs are telepathic!
ifoxOvomorphMember63 XPFeb-20-2022 8:43 PM
AvP was _never_ "canon" in the official alien universe. It is a separate continuity. It cannot therefore be "erased" from alien canon.
XenotarisPraetorianMember3628 XPFeb-22-2022 11:59 AM
"You have to take the novelisations with a pinch of salt. I'm pretty sure I read in one of the ADF novels that xenomorphs are telepathic!"
I haven't read that yet, might be in Alien 3 Novelization but might skip Alien 3 and jump to Earth Hive and mentaly changed Billie and Wilks back into Newt and Hicks or figure out how to edit my copy on kindle
Thoughts_DreamsNeomorphMember1621 XPFeb-23-2022 11:59 AM
Maybe I'm wrong but the AVP’s were alternate things, right? If so they're not canon, and it's a bad head-line.
About ADF and his version of how the Xeno came to be. In the AVP-podcast number 51 they interviewed ADF, and he got the question about that. 45 minutes into the interview he gets the question in which he answers that the script wasn't clear about who made it, so he could make his own interpretation. According to ADF, David used material that was left by the Engineers and made his version. Maybe the Engineers made the Xeno or David made a more advanced version, which according to ADF could explain why the monster grows so fast in AC. This could be interpreted in different ways about who was responsible for the monster.
I prefer the Foster version, rather than Scott wanting David to be the one who made it. Even though I haven't read it, it seems to be better than the movie, judging from the way ADF described it.
BigDaveDeaconMember10325 XPFeb-27-2022 10:27 AM
That would EXPLAIN it... thanks...
looking at the Drafts i have read, then its NOT so OPEN.. it indicates to me that DAVID had Created the Xenomorph.
Just seems to me that ADF was NOT that Happy with the Xenomorph Creation by a Robot (sure most would agree) and so thought he would CHANGE/ADD something to the NOVEL that would Contradict this Notion/Idea
The drafts indicate the Juggernaught has Eggs but these are Described as Varied but Covered in BLACK FUR and this FUR is what Darts from the Eggs to Infect a Host with the NEOMORPH.
Near these Eggs are Broken Urns and so the indication is that the Black Goo has come into Contact with something to CREATE these Eggs. The Latter Drafts these Eggs become Small Spores instead. Also the Latter Drafts the TINY HAIRS/FUR are replaced with Tiny Midges.
The Face Hugger/Egg scenes we see David explain what the Eggs on the Ship Produced... that then Evolved into Insect like Parasites.... and David says he had Experimented with them, saying Evolution only takes you so FAR and he implies he had been doing some Genetic Experiments...
To which he indicates the EGGS are his Perfection, his Creation. The Result of his Experiments.
XenotarisPraetorianMember3628 XPFeb-27-2022 7:04 PM
Ah, I haven't read of the Alien Covenant scripts
BigDaveDeaconMember10325 XPFeb-28-2022 5:39 AM
I only managed to come across TWO..... i have Read in the Past 3 Drafts but i believe there are Four that Surfaced. Ive heard that there was about 6/7 in Total from July 2015 to December 2015 then the Shooting Draft was Early 2016
The Three i have Read do-not DIFFER really in Terms of Content as FAR as the Neomorphs and Xenomorph. Regarding as to HOW they came to be. Did ADF have one of the other DRAFTS that left it more Ambiguous for him?
These are some Extracts relating to Hallet his Infection and Neomorph Birth Scene. The other Draft which i cant seem to Find, did Describe things more closer to the MOVIE as in the Eggs on the Juggernaught were referred to as Sacks and Spore Motes. And Regarding David/Eggs it was very similar to the November 2015 Draft.
I would BET that ADF either used that Draft or the December one. And then Fleshed it Out/Changed things.
BigDaveDeaconMember10325 XPFeb-28-2022 6:06 AM
Here are the Extracts from Davids Workshop and Egg Room
Links to the TWO Drafts i have referenced, i cant seem to FIND the other ONE i Read but in Regards to Davids Lab and Eggs etc... Nothing Changes really.
XenotarisPraetorianMember3628 XPFeb-28-2022 10:52 AM
Cool, I'll have to check them out
BigDaveDeaconMember10325 XPMar-01-2022 12:57 AM
Those Images if you Enlarge or Download them have the Relevant Parts in regards to WHERE could ADF had drawn any Conclusion to the Xenomorph just being Found by David on Planet 4. If you Download the Drafts then its Pages 36-40 and 80-82 Mark that you would get to those Scenes.
XenotarisPraetorianMember3628 XPMar-04-2022 10:14 AM
Ah, I am half way through ALIENS Novelization. So I will download these scripts tonight