Instead of making another Back to the Future Series as this Topic would kind of be part of Alien: Back to the Future Part 2 which was to look at a Alternative Sequel to Prometheus, which can include Re-boot of Alien Covenant.
I thought i would cover this Separately... to discus a WHAT IF a Alternative Story, or Discussion.
David and Dr Shaw had left LV-223 and their Ship had arrived at Planet 4 and we see the Engineers had gathered to WELCOME the Ship..... but they did-not know the Occupants or what would be IN-STORE for them.
So WHAT-IF when they arrived David had decided to NOT bombard the Engineers, he had awoken Dr Shaw and prepared her for their Arrival.
How would the Engineers had felt once they realize who was on board the Ship? What would Dr Shaw be like in response to a more Civilized Engineer Society.
Would the Engineers feel threatened? We can assume that David could Communicate with them. What would be Davids take on all of this?
When Considering a Sequel to Prometheus and where David and Dr Shaw would go, it was always going to be Tricky in HOW do they cover a Interaction between David and Dr Shaw and any beings (Engineers) they would come across..
It would be Unlikely any Answers that Dr Shaw wants would make her Happy, it could be any information the Engineers give would go against what her FAITH is about. How would they react to Dr Shaw's Faith.
One Female would NOT pose a Threat to them... we have to Wonder if David would? Would David behave? If David did something that was a Concern then the Engineers would Consider they cant allow such Creations to Exist... what would be Dr Shaws response or David's
While they may be NO major threat, If the Engineers are aware of who Mankind are/Earth and LV-223 and what it has, and NOW they know that Mankind can Travel the Stars and with their own Creations (Synthetics) they can USE the Engineers Technology and Tools.
Surely this would be a GREAT CONCERN for their Species.
Ultimately if David never pulled the TRIGGER we dont know how they would have been Welcomed, its unlikely they would Instantly just want to Tear David's Head off and Bash our Dr Shaw around the Head with it... but Circumstances could lead to such depending on the Interaction between the Engineers and David and Dr Shaw.... things could go SOUR at some point.
Dr Shaw would have been willing to Risk a Frosty Reception and potential of being Not Welcomed for her Answers.... David did-not want to take any Slight Chance of him or her being Destroyed so Bombs Away.
But what maybe could have happened if he put the Needs of Dr Shaw First?
R.I.P Sox 01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017
I think there is zero chance they would be welcomed.....I think the Engineers know all about humanity.
The David abomination would be torn limb from limb and then ejected into the nearest star.
Shaw? Probably sacrificed.
There would most certainly be an inquiry and then Earth wiped clean.
Can't have aliens stealing spacecraft.
Earth and humanity is a threat.
From what little we saw of Planet 4, I think the populace might be stunned or in awe of David and Shaw.
This is an interesting question.
The populace would have no obligation or expectation to welcome David and Shaw, but they might see the ship and think there is a reason to trust? Hard to say. We need to know the nature of the Planet 4 population. They don't appear war like but the 223 Engineers are bad ass killers if need be.
I like to think Shaw would find her answer just meeting the populace of Planet 4- for better or worse. At least she would know the truth. Better than withering away under David's weird machinations.
David would probably do his thing and find a way to manipulate the situation to suit his agenda.
What happened on LV-223 was 2000 years ago.
I believe that when David and Shaw arrive at Planet 4, the Engineers have long since abandoned their old, barbaric ways containing sacrifice and creation of weapons of mass destruction.
They now live a simple and peaceful life and they welcome visitors.
But, David is now the wolf . . .
Ha ha... this is a Tricky Subject ;)
some Very Good Points
The basis of how they would React would depends on WHAT the Engineers purpose was for Creation in the First Place, it appeared that it was likely that HAD we all Behaved and Not Displeased the Engineers then we would not have been booked in for Genocide?
Another thing would be WHAT do those Engineers know about LV-223 what it was, what it became and also what was Earth and what we had became!
Then you have to Wonder is Earth the ONLY place the Engineers had Seeded Life and Evolved it to become like them... Humanoid.. If they have Many Worlds with Humanoid Life, then we have to ask do they LOOK similar to us?
And then had these other Worlds UPSET the Engineers too, or did it take just ONE/TWO Worlds deemed Failure for them to decide to go and Eradicate ALL the Humanoids they seeded, including other Worlds that have NOT upset the Engineers?
So the Answers to those would determine how those Engineers would react!
Was the Scorpion Docking Ship a Unmanned Ship? If it was then would it detect that Engineers are-not on board and then what would be the Next Course of Action?
If it was Manned then maybe a Boarding Party would Enter the Juggernaut and Seize David and Dr Shaw, they would maybe be surprised that David could talk to them.
I would assume that maybe they would NOT want to KILL them, but they would be Interested in Interrogate them, Discover how many more are on the Way, where are they From, and HOW they found this Place.
If they discover David is a Creation of Mankinds, they could be Interested, Concerned, could see it as Blashomy who knows... maybe NOT all of them would have the same view on David and Dr Shaw.
So it would be likely they would have a Council Meeting to determine what to do NOW..
As long as David and Dr Shaw do-not upset the Engineers or cause any Concerns they could be Spared, there could be some who want them Executed or Locked Up, but others who would think they should be given a chance to Interact with and Monitor them!
Would they give Dr Shaw Answers, would the Answers they give not Satisfy her? Would they be Interested and Intrigued at Dr Shaws Faith and the Findings her and Holloway made and Mankinds many Mythos and Religion that Spanned from the Engineers.
Some Engineers could be interested in this History from OUR POV... do they know about our History and Interactions, or do most of those beings only know that their kind just go off and Seed Many Worlds.. and so they dont have any Specifics of Earth History say the last 6-2 Thousands Years ago etc.
Would some Engineers Fear that Dr Shaw and what she talks about could Corrupt the Engineers, or give away Information/History that the Hierarchy does-not want the other Engineers to know about?
What if the Engineers reveal that Humans live on other Worlds, and that they had Abandoned Earth and Abandoned the Mission to Destroy us as it proved to be costly so they just decided to STOP COMING.. thinking they have Many Worlds, and they was prepared to LET OUR World ROT.. leave us to Destroy Ourselves!
They decided they can Afford to Write Off our World, and we would just amount to NOTHING without the Engineers, they would Forsake us and Abandon us, and without the Engineers we would NOT advanced further than we was 2000 Years ago, and actually we may end up going Backwards!
That was UNTIL they discover that David and Dr Shaw had arrived at their Home... something they FELT that we would NEVER be able to do as we are just Cave-Men without their Help/Knowledge.
While the Engineers may-not instantly want to KILL their Visitors, they could even be prepared to allow them to STAY!
Certainly they would have CONCERNS for the Rest of Mankind, they would debate what to do, as they surely CANT allow for Humans to be able to Travel the Stars, and then go to their Outposts and USE their Technology via a Sub-Creation!
They cant allow a Race they had deemed to be Worthy of Eradication because of our Ways and the Potential Threat we posed for being Rebellious, they cant ALLOW such a Race from Earth to be allowed to Traverse the Stars and use Engineer Technology.
The Council would have to Deliberate what to do..
*Pay us a Visit, inform Earth of WHO they are, and see IF we have Changed? How would we React? Then they would be Concerned about our Ability to Travel the Stars.
*Make some Rules and Regulations regarding our use of Technology, Forbid Certain Places, Protect LV-223 and the Like... How do they Form a Agreement, and HOW do they Police it? With many other Worlds Created, and ours Deemed Forsaken is it worth that Effort?
*Do something to Render our Technology Useless, some kind of EMP attack. Send us back a Few Hundred Years. But how long would the Effects Last, could we just Re-start again at some Point?
These are all things a Council would discus in response to knowing that WE can Travel the Stars etc....
The Council could likely decide the ONLY option would be the ONE they had intended 2000+ Years ago... they would have NO choice but to Eradicate Earth!
How would Dr Shaw feel about this?
Maybe she realizes the Engineers intended what they did because of the way Mankind had behaved, and maybe she can see that Mankind has only got Worse, and that not many Follow certain ways such as her Faith.. while she may find her Faith is not what she thought, she could see the Good in her Faith and see the Engineers Aspire and Teach Similar Things.... And just as GOD in the Bible had NO choice but to take Drastic Action in the Past on a Few Occasions... The Engineers are merely doing the Same.
Would Dr Shaw plead with the Engineers... but Ultimately with a Revelation the Engineers had seeded Many Worlds, where Most abide by the Rules and Live a Life that would have Appeased Dr Shaws GOD.... compared to how the Majority of Earth would Displease Dr Shaws GOD!
Maybe she excepts Earth is just a SMALL part of something GRAND, and she has been allowed Entrance to Paradise, and maybe she can come to Terms with the Engineers decision to Destroy Earth!
She may not like it..... but as she asked David in the Crossing "what if they are no better than us" he replies "as long as they are no Worse" so she could discover in the Grand Scheme of things they are NOT as Worse as WE are, and they are No Worse than her GOD!
So she accepts that Earth is a Fallen Paradise, the Engineers are Seeders of Many Worlds and Protectors, and that there are other Worlds like Earth who abide by the Rules and are NOT as BAD as Mankind had became.. she would see the Grand Scheme and HOW indeed Mankind and Companies like Weyland should NOT be allowed to have the Engineers Technology and become the NEW GODS.
Maybe the Engineers could SHOW her some of those Other Worlds and Civilizations at Peace, maybe they could say they could take her to Visit them, some day...
THANK YOU for Baring with me this FAR ;)
I think this is Plausible...
HOWEVER... what if the Council Decide that their is a Risk that OTHER worlds could turn out like Earth, and they Decide to go and Eradicate a Number of these Worlds...
HOW would Dr Shaw feel then? You can bet that if she feels the Engineers make a Haste Decision to Destroy Earth and then PROCEED to other Worlds that have Humanoids like us, so that the same thing that Happened on Earth can NEVER Happen again.
You think Dr Shaw would accept that?
I think she would say to David.... GIVE THEM HELL... to Protect the Many Worlds they Seeded from Genocide.
R.I.P Sox 01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017
Guess, I would be concerned about a Engineers based movie/plot becoming Star Trek/Star Wars universe like(trade negotiations, delegates, Earth being allowed to join the Engineers lower guild, Politics, etc....)
I'd just hope they keep it horror based. Keep the tension high. (If you happen to stumble across a Engineers tomb/temple/ruins/derelict you'd better flee!)
I'm assuming David(and Shaw?) had access to Engineers maps and history? Maybe David knew what was really in store for them? And he took action.
Well RS did say he thought the Franchise could be as BIG as Star Trek or Star Wars..... surely not with Queens and Ripley ;)
Those Franchises had a Depth of Characters, some Good Action Scenes, but what makes them Different to ALIEN was they featured Multiple Worlds, Ships, Races and Conflicts.... I can only assume RS pondered the Scope of the Engineers and Various Worlds they Create/Seed could lead to similar.
A number of Fans would NOT want to explore the Engineers in Depth, as far as what other Worlds and Creations they are Involved with and what Interactions between them would be like and indeed Mankind in the Past.
It simply is NOT as ALIEN as the First Movie, the Whole Gods Plot as far as Humanoid Creators just is NOT everyone's Cup of Tea.
It did appear the Prometheus Plot, of these Ancient would be Gods, was more in tone to WHAT they Create and WHY and that this is NOT about purely Creating ONLY such Horrors like the Xenomorph.
The Prequels were intended to be their own SEPARATE thing, so that a Sequel to Prometheus would STEER away from ALIEN etc.
But Certainly a STARGATE like Plot with Engineers would not be as Dark as ALIEN fans would like and i agree you have to introduce some Dark Horror to it...
Ultimately we DONT 100% know why the Engineers Seed Worlds, is their Aim always to Evolve/Engineer Humanoids, are most of the Worlds they Evolve to that Level all similar... (like many Star Trek Humanoid Races) or do they create other Races/Species that are NOT very Human...
The Scope was MASSIVE.. as it seemed implied the Engineers are Many Millions of Years old.. WHY even over a Billion Years... possibly... It appears they have Traveled to other GALAXIES so the Scope for a Star Trek is there, but i know ALIEN fans would not want anything like that to Interfere with the Alien Franchise...
But the ALIEN Franchise is contained to a Small Part of our Galaxy, so expanding with a Spin Off that is on the Far Reaches of the Galaxy or another Galaxy should not conflict the ALIEN Franchise.
Looking at the Prometheus Plot, and Planet 4 Engineers, its likely they Visit Many Worlds, Interact and Evolve Life, both Genetically and Technologically....
But likely ONLY to a Certain Level... i doubt they would allow their Creations to be more Advanced that what we saw on Planet 4. Maybe on Worlds they Construct Temples that Act as Hangers/Landing Strips for their Ships but i DOUBT they ever intend their Creations to USE or be allowed to USE that Space Fairing Technology.
So in context to the Topic... i think they would be interested in Dr Shaw and David, but indeed by Virtue of HOW they ended up on Planet 4 would be a Concern they Cant let that Genie out the Box... But its Too Late... Mankind have reached the Stars...
So as i was saying, the Engineers would be in a Dilemma, and would likely Conclude they had better go and PUT A STOP to our Conquest of Space... and likely our Species on Earth.
This was a Potential Future in Store... had David decided to NOT bombard them... Dr Shaw's Selfish Pursuit for her Answers, could have lead to the Engineers deciding to go and FINISH the Job!
You could then speculate that SHE would likely want to Prevent that and that could mean finding a way to Destroy the Engineers.
So YEAH! things could still have got VERY DARK ;)
R.I.P Sox 01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017
"I'm assuming David(and Shaw?) had access to Engineers maps and history?"
Well he could go and ASK the Engineers, but its a case of WHAT they would Share, or if they would Provide NO Answers. There was the Risk they would be Hostile to David and Dr Shaw... This is something they would NEVER know... He Learned of their Cruel Ways.. but this was likely as far as LV-223, and maybe NOT what those on Paradise/Planet 4 would be like.
But he could NOT risk it... so he KILLED them to Protect himself, and Dr Shaw only for his own Selfish Need of her as a Companion..
So for him... the Engineer City may still Provide a place where he can Salvage her some Answers. Its highly likely some Engineers Survived... so we can wonder had David spoke to any of those? If so likely when they have been Barricaded away and Weak and Emaciated.. Easy Pickings!
I think when looking at the Engineers, we have to remember to see if from their POV and that its not always about Creating Horrific Weapons.
R.I.P Sox 01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017
Maybe David knew what was really in store for them? And he took action.
That is possible, but the Engineers were pretty quiet and seemed in wonder of what they were seeing. By human standards, they didn't seem to be preparing for defensive or offensive measures. Then again, they had that invisible shield that ultimately failed.
If David was executing a preemptive strike because of what he learned on the ship, his intel may have been faulty as chli pointed out that 2000 years had past and the Engineers may have ceased their combative posture/ practices. In that case, David's genocide was misguided and plain erroneous at the very least. If there were any survivors (it was a big enough planet and we only saw a small part of it- seems there would have been other cities on the planet), the Engineers would have a renewed reason and motivation to finish the job of destroying humanity.
Those Engineers would not have Expected anything but Returning Engineers on that Ship, there did seem to be Little Precaution against Attack. This could tell us those Engineers simply NEVER expect any incoming Attacks, that Proves they are Naive.... They must Feel there are No Threats, or they may have Confidence in their Defenses (which did not seem like Much). Or its likely they Visit and Keep in Check other Worlds so they NEVER possess Technology or Space Travel.
Once they abandoned Earth, they likely Felt that on our own we would NEVER advance any further than we was Thousands of Years ago.
From Davids POV... He would know the Engineers had determined that Mankind on Earth should be Eradicated, he Witnessed they would NOT be welcomed by those on LV-223 and David got his Head Torn Off in the Process, so for David he would know there is that ELEMENT of Danger and Potential that the Engineers would not be OPEN ARMS and Accept our Dr Shaw and David... and so he would Consider the Worse Case Scenario
Eradication of the Engineers with a Preemptive Strike would have been Likely.
From the Engineers POV.... who knows what they know about Earth, regardless if they knew or not, i think having another Species turn up in their own Space Ships that have the Potential for Genocide would be a Massive Concern, they would also have to look at the Risk and Worse Case Scenario about Humans being able to Travel Space and Obtain and Use Engineers Technology.
Eradication of Mankind to Protect themselves and the Galaxy would be Likely.
From Dr Shaws POV..... She would know the Risk, she could be Naive in thinking there has to be MORE above the Engineers that would Mirror her Faith of a Benevolent Creator, she wants Answers and she would NOT mind the Risk of getting Answers that would Crush her Faith, or Prove Horrific, or getting No Answers at all..... and she would think the Worse Case Scenario would be her DEATH! but its the Risk she would take!
She is either very Naive or Selfish.... because by Virtue of going to seek out the Gods.... Worse Case Scenario could be that they would see what Mankind has Achieved and see them as a Threat and Ultimately the Quest for Answers by Dr Shaw could lead to Mankinds Destruction.
R.I.P Sox 01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017
Thats a Good Question.... we have to ASK for what Reason could there be ONLY the ONE City?
Keeping a Civilizations Contained within ONE City would be ideal as far as to Control this Civilization/Culture its easier to make sure they Stick to the Plan/Rules and Rituals/Culture that is Intended by the Hierarchy.
Still you could consider this as Strange!
If we look at this Place as supposedly to be PARADISE then look at Paradise in the Biblical Context then it makes some Sense... If we look at it as far as the Location of the Garden of Eden.
The Garden of Eden was a WALLED City, well a Place that was Cut Off from the rest of Paradise, it was the Location of the Cradle of Creation, where Adam and Eve were Created, where they was to Dwell and be Contained, and Watched Over. After the Fall/Disobedience they (Adam/Eve) where kicked out of the Garden and Paradise.
We should NOT look too Literal at that but it likely holds some Element of Truth...
IF the Engineers are our Forerunners our Ancestors and we came from them... then indeed that CITY on Planet 4 could be the Cradle of Creation, having those Engineers are Permitted to Live there is a Sign that they are Worthy and Pure and Follow the Ways/Rituals and Law of the Hierarchy
They Live a Certain way, that likely is how their Hierarchy have intended. They are Maintained within a SINGLE City so they are easier to Watch Over and make sure they abide by the RULES....
The Docking Ship and its Occupants are likely similar to the Cherubim Angels who Guard Paradise/The Garden of Eden.
Back to the Survivors... it thus is likely that ONLY that City is Inhabited by the Engineers, but when we look at what Happened to them.... its clear from Davids Work and Notes that some had Survived the Bombardment.
The Outside Environment would likely be Contaminated for a Period of Time, so they DARE not risk going out... Eventually Supplies would Dwindle... they would become Weak and Emaciated... If they have a High Moral Compass, then its likely they would put the Needs of the Woman and Children First, so that the Males would go without Food/Water which would leave them Weak, and then the Women would likely put the Children First and so after TIME... they would all be Ripe for the Pickings of David!
We can only Imagine the Interaction between Weak/Emaciated Engineers and David!
We can only Imagine what the Interactions would have been like if David had-not Bombarded them.. ONE thing is for Sure.... had they NOT been Killed Off and Discovered who Dr Shaw and David were then they would likely have No Choice but to Destroy Earth!
R.I.P Sox 01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017
Going by the movie, survivors might ultimately meet Walter assuming he survived. Would they think he is David and act accordingly? I don't think Walter knew their language so he might be in a bad situation in this scenario.
Was David upset about the Engineers he killed?(I thought so...I'll watch AC again) Or does he know they are a long lived species and there are trillions of Engineers spread through out the galaxy.
Maybe he killed them so he can steal their technology in peace. He knew they would not teach him, or stand around while he pilfered their tech.("Check the library, it's got a lot of HOW TO books", "Cool! Thanks!)
I understand what Shaw's plan was..But Davids?!
For Walters sake, I hope the Engineers are kind.
Well David's Perspective is Ultimately the Most Important one as he is the ONE who was in Control of WHERE they go..... Once he has persuaded Dr Shaw to go into Cryo-sleep then he is FREE to go where ever he wants and do what ever he wants.
David is a Sentient Being, he does not consider himself to merely be a Robot, a Tool, a Servant. He feels Alive and his Survival is something he wishes to ENSURE... He would have some of the Personality of Peter Weyland rub off on him, such as how Mr Weyland felt he was Superior to others because of his Accomplishments, his Creations, even having a God Complex.
David would have Studied Dr Shaw and Holoways Hypothesis/Work, which turned out to be True, so he would determine that Mankinds Greatness came from the Free-will, the Knowledge and Desire to Seek out Greater Knowledge. He would determine the Engineers possessed Great Knowledge and Tools, it is what made them God-Like, more so than Mr Weyland....
David would know that he is Superior to Humans, and after seeing the Engineers are Mortal After-all, he would know that its only their Technology, Tools and Knowledge that makes them much more Superior to Humans... So i would assume that David would Ponder what he could Accomplish if he had FREE access to the Engineers Knowledge and Tools....
He would know their Technology and Knowledge is what allowed them to be so Great, but he would see as Mortals and through their Errors they are NOT so Perfect and so he would Consider the Engineers are NOT so Worthy to have the Great Knowledge and Tools at their Disposal.
If he gained SOLE use of these then he would become the GOD now.
So when going to the Engineers would be Home-World he would expect this Place to have Vast Knowledge, and so as well as Ensuring his Survival, he would also know that a Engineer World with its Population Decimated would leave all their SECRETS for David to Behold!
R.I.P Sox 01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017
I will add to the above...
That indeed if David has a Hunger for Power and Knowledge, he could consider that ASKING the Engineers for such could Ultimately end up the same way as when his Father had ASKED for more Life!
Other Species who especially would NOT live by certain Guide-Lines could surely NOT be allowed such Knowledge, this would be a Great Fear for the Engineers, Imagine if Weyland was Granted Extra Life, and then he and David managed to Kill the Engineer and had Free-Reign of their Technology.
It was hard to Judge with David by his Actions, he seemed UPSET at having to Bombard the Engineers, was this Anger? was it Pity but he had NO Choice in order to Sustain Himself and Dr Shaw? Was it because he knows by his Actions he would be PREVENTING her from her Wishes and Reason to want to come to this Place?
I feel on one hand he showed signs of Appreciation and Awe at what the Engineers are capable of, on the other he saw that their was so much Potential that was Wasted with the Engineers. And Ultimately what he did was Necessary in order to Guarantee Survival of himself and Elizabeth Shaw.
I would assume there are NONE on Planet 4 at the Time the Covenant Crew Arrive.... If there was a Slim Chance that some Escaped, its a Case of 10 Years, maybe they can RUN but they cant HIDE.
I would Assume the Engineers all pretty much remain around that City and the Bombardment would likely had Destroyed those who was outside, it is almost Certain that some had Survived, its a case of where? If they had Escaped and Ran Off and remained OUTSIDE the Radius of the Black Goo, then they could likely Survive and become a Match for David, unless they was Hunted down by Neomorphs?
If some Survived and got to Safety FAR out in the Jungle/Woods, then they would have taken NO Tools, they would essentially be just Stronger Humans who would have to Live off the Jungle from Scratch!
Would they Venture back and Try and Take the City?
Would they Abandon it and Migrate as FAR away as they could and Start Again, which would take a LONG time to Re-create their Technology.
(There is a Potential Story here.... )
I would assume its likely that all/most of the Survivors had found some place Indoors/Underground to HOLD-UP away from the Outbreak, they would likely HIDE away until they was Certain the Danger had Passed... but they was taken by Surprise and so as i said, its likely that Food/Drink Supplies for where they was HELD up would Diminish leaving them in a Weak and Emaciated Condition... Perhaps..
David must have got to ALIVE or Weak Engineers for some of his Studies and Experiments, and while those Engineers may-not be the Super Engineers that we saw in Prometheus, you would still say that a Fully Healthy Group of 7-8ft Humanoids could be a Match for David, so we have to ask HOW he could overcome them... and being Weak and Emaciated seems a Logical Answer.
Regarding Walter, it is likely he is ALONE...
But not Forever... as RS had indicated that some Engineers would Return to Planet 4, its Highly likely they would come across Walter.... and they surely would NOT be Best Pleased ;)
R.I.P Sox 01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017
Wonder what Walter could 'create' given enough time and the same tools David used.
I can imagine Walter learning the Engineers language while he waits for rescue. Maybe exploit the crashed juggernaut and it's holo system?
He could present his holo image for the Engineers (to calm them down)speaking in their language...explaining just what happened to their colony...(before meeting them face to face)
I think he'll be ready if/when the Engineers return.
I think that would take a Lazy Oversight on the Plot Part
By that i dont think it would be Possible to Learn the Engineer Language without being Taught or seeing some Translation. It depends if David had made a Translation of their Written Language maybe for Dr Shaw?
Or unless the Engineers could Understand English, or Walter does know some Ancient Languages that he could TRY and see if the Engineers Recognize any.
Another way around would be if INDEED we reveal that David had MIND-SWAPPED with Walter.. that would be a Bit Silly... if anything it would be likely in that sense that David has Transfered himself to Walter, but then a Duplicate David remains on Planet 4..... this David would be able to Communicate to the Engineers, but then he would know that the other David is Part of his Plans and would UNLIKELY reveal where he is... and so would TAKE the Blame and get Destroyed leaving the David on the Covenant Free to go to Origae-6.
The Engineers we assume would want to go to LV-223 and Earth though! The ONLY thing that would Stop them would be IF they Knew that David on the Covenant was the Culprit and where he is GOING!
Looking at RS comments then its likely the Engineers will Discover it was David and where he is Going... and its likely they somehow find out this from Walter.
The Question is HOW... so they have to Think of a Reason why.... having Walter simply just know Engineer would be Lazy!
The best way would be if while David was keeping a Log of what he has been doing, with his Notes, he also makes a Engineer ==> English Dictionary. And so Walter would Communicate via Writing.
Looking at the Writers they use... we would likely get the reveal that David and Walter had Swapped Minds! And so Walter is in Davids Body but has some of the Knowledge of David... But then depending how much of David is in Walters Mind we could wonder what that does to Walter, would he Appreciate the Works that David had done, would he Stranded Alone attempt to do similar?
I think a Engineer ==> English Translation Notes by David would be FAR easier and less conflicting.
R.I.P Sox 01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017
I wonder why David even took notes at all in the first place. He would remember his observations and studies- unless he intended the notes to be found. He also wrote in human language and not Engineer so that narrows it down a bit.
How did David learn Engineer? Seems like he just studied some Earth languages and then cross referenced?
I'd think Walter could do this...He is an upgraded synth?
The Covenant must have many different language speakers on board(hypersleep) and Walter must communicate with them. Communication skills should be very high on a colony synth resume'...especially travelling to a strange new world(s)?
If David hadn't cut his hair...I might believe in the mind swap angle......but he clearly wanted to look like Walter and take his place?
"I wonder why David even took notes at all in the first place"
Certainly its something i discussed before, he could Record them in his AI Brain and then Upload them to a Computer and Send them.
If David did that then the Workshop would look a bit more Plain so Visually it was Cool, i guess we could Consider that David is also Vain and Arrogant and so he wishes to Leave Hard Evidence of his Works for others to Come Across just as a Artist does with their Art! Instead of keeping their Ideas in their Head.
He would have to Learn the Same way that People do, its via Passed on Knowledge and Knowledge thats Evolved from Trial and Error.
A Person who is None-Spanish Speaking, cant just Pick Up a Spanish Dictionary that has only Spanish and Fully Know 100% what every Word is... a better Example would be with say Mandarin Chinese
You would need a Translation, and so we can compare a Word in our Native Language to the Equivalent in a New Language we are Learning and then we Learn from this, for Example for those who ONLY know English then Manzana would make NO sense.. is it to do with a Man?
Only when we learn that Manzana is Spanish for Apple that we then Learn that Spanish Word and what it is.
A Synthetic AI would Learn the Same Way unless the Language is Programmed into them with their Set of Default Programing and Knowledge when Activated.
A Synthetic AI would Learn Faster than a Human though, they could Read Books, Take on Knowledge/Data at Much Much Faster Rates than a Human.
David had likely Studied all of Dr Shaw and Holloways Notes and Ancient Findings and then Learned all the Relevant Languages from the Culture where these Findings had Originated, he then also Learned a Number of Ancient Languages. So he had a Various Amounts of Different Languages so the Potential is their the Engineers would Understand at least ONE of them...
Which was Proto-Indo-European (PIE)
There was Flaws.... such as if we assume David can Read the Engineer Writing... while this has similarities to some Cuneiform on Earth, the Engineer Language is actually just MADE-UP its a Oversight we are not Supposed to look to deep into.
Like i could Draw some Symbols that look Familiar to Japanese Kanji or Chinese Mandarin and you would look at what i have Drawn and If you had NO KNOWLEDGE of East Asian Writing, you would think it may be some Asian Writing, when actually it would NOT be any Letter/Words at all, it may appear similar to some but it would be just MADE UP..
Thats Basically what we got with the Engineer Writings. But this is a Oversight!
So with WALTER i doubt he would KNOW or be able to Learn Engineer with NO reference point. We need to Remember that Walter is made to Serve... he would only be Given Programing and Knowledge that is required for his Mission.
He would have NO-NEED to Learn Ancient Languages for his Mission to get the Covenant to Origae-6 and Help them Set-Up and Maintain a Colony. The Walter Models would only have Specific Knowledge/Programing that would be Required for their Chosen Role they are to be used for.
He is also NOT a Sentient, Free-Will being like David and so he would not have any Hobbies or Past Times, he would not be on the Ship for Years and think... "right i best learn this and that while i am bored" or "i want to learn this and that because it seems fun"
For him to by Coincidence had decided to Learn or be Programed with such Knowledge that would allow him to Speak to Engineers, would be just LAZY WRITING... but i have read some of the Franchise Drafts and well... say NO more.. anything for a Plot Convenience..
He would not NEED such for his Mission, and wont do so as a Past Time/Hobby.
Another Synthetic sent in on a Mission to Investigate the Advent Message, thats Different they would likely be Programed/Taught all the Stuff that David had done to prepare them for potential Contact with Alien Beings who had Influenced/Taught Mankind in the Past.
If this Synthetic came across Walter, then they could likely be able to Upload that Knowledge to Walter and also have Walter Upload his Knowledge about the Situation/Events that Unfolded.
This would then be a Logical way that Walter would then be able to Communicate with any Engineers in Future.
A Walter Stranded Alone... would likely NOT be able to Fully Communicate with the Engineers though. Unless the Engineers have a Computer System/Library that acts as a Educational Tool, so that he Manages to Turn it on, and it would Display Images, say like a TREE and then have the Engineers Dialect and Writing for it, then it would show say the SKY and likewise etc...
Then YES he could Learn to a Degree Engineer, even if their is only Written Library where it would have say a Fruit and then Engineer Writing for it, then Water and Engineer Writing for it... then Walter could Communicate via Writing ONLY!
IF we ever got to a Point of seeing Walter interact with Engineers it would likely be just a Convenience and NO Real Explanation, or a Lazy One... like indicate that Walter has Complex Algorithms that in Time he could Understand and Decode any Language, but then HOW he would Speak it would be a MASSIVE Oversight!
Or that Walter had his Body Stolen by David, and during the Process that David Uploaded himself to Walter, it left Walters Mind in Davids Body!
Those are basically what its likely the Quality of Writing would Present to us.... Flawed but Convenient!
They may even NOT give any Explanation to HOW he could Communicate, leave it a Mystery... or just Explain its Company Policy that ALL Synthetics are Pre-Programed with EVERY Language known to Mankind, both Current and Ancient.... JOB done!
Actually that (^^^^) would have been the Likely/Lazy and Convenient way they would have gone about it ;)
R.I.P Sox 01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017
I would actually however think a better way would be that as David realizes he has Ruined the Chance for Dr Shaw of Ever getting her Answers, he knows he could maybe Salvage something from the Engineers Library of Knowledge and Writings...
What ever Excuse for the Bombardment, she would be ANGRY she cant get her Answers.... so he could maybe try and Explain some for her... she would have to TAKE his Word for it....
so maybe he could do a Engineer ==> English Written Translation for HER, on the Papers and maybe he could keep this ALSO as a Record so that the Company could USE it should David be prepared to ALLOW them... which the Advent seems to Suggest he is Willing to Pass on Knowledge and his Works to them, so its NOT beyond the means of Possibility he would keep a Record of Engineer ==> English.
This would be a Plot Convenience that makes sense..
A Engineer could Confront him, throw him and as Walter is on his Hand and Knees, he could WRITE in the Dirt/Sand... something like "STOP, or NO or PLEASE"
The Engineer would be Puzzled, and likely allow Walter to Communicate more.... then they would likely find some Paper or Write in the Dirt back and ASK where Walter had Learned this... he could then take them to some Paper Scrolls that we then see a Engineer ==> English Translation on.
We also could go the route that Walter speaks say Ancient Latin for some Reason, and the Engineers can Speak that... or a Lazy Convenience would be the Engineers could Speak English... or have a Computer they can Connect to Walter and Upload their Engineer Language...
IF they had a System that could Connect with Walter, then it would be likely they could just Extract all his Knowledge and then BE DONE with him and Toss him on the Scrap Heap!
If there was a Human Survivor on Planet 4 that would be Easier as all they have to do is Reveal that ONE Engineer is some kind of SEER and Telepathic and can Connect with the Human Telepathically.
If some Engineers are capable of doing this, then Ancient Interactions with Mankind would give rise to Legends of this being some kind of Miracle and make them appear God-like!
Having a Spiritual SEER Engineer would be a Plot Convenience for say IF we had it that David did-not Bombard the Engineers, and it would give a Avenue for Dr Shaw to Communicate with the Engineers.
This is the Route i would have taken us, in a Alternative Sequel where Dr Shaw was not KILLED or the Engineers.
The SEER would also be able to READ the Thoughts and Soul of Dr Shaw and Determine she is a GOOD SOUL and that IF the rest of Mankind was like her then they would NOT have had to resort to Drastic Planned Action.
The SEER would also likely get to see what Dr Shaw's Faith was, and could then Inform her she is Miss-Informed... and even go as FAR to say that her GOD (Jesus Christ) was Actually a CHOSEN Human that was Enhanced and Given Spiritual Knowledge and was a Emissary of the Engineers.
They could even reveal that maybe this Emissary had taken this GIFT for their Own Personal Gain to try and Manipulate Mankind that they are a GOD... and it is THIS that had been the Final Straw for the Engineers.
So indeed having some Powerful Seer/Sage like Elder Engineers that can Communicate in this Manner would have been a way to take the PLOT
Had they NOT decided to KILL the Engineers Off.
The Engineer Seer could even Ponder to Grant our Dr Shaw the Entrance to Paradise, and Bestow some Gifts on Her... They could Determine she could not BARE Child Either... maybe they could OFFER her a FIX for this.... maybe they could even suggest they could Take Her to another World where she could LIVE and Bare Child! Could this World be inhabited with Humans? or Similar, would she be TOLD to Accept the TRUTH and have to Give Up her FAITH that is now proved to not be Accurate?
Then we come to David.... it would be likely the SEER could not Read David, would determine WHO he is and WHAT he had done, they would maybe Want to Destroy him but Dr Shaw could Plead for his Life... explaining he had been Miss-Treated by Mankinds Ways and he was only Following Orders.
They would STILL be Unable to Read David and so would NOT be able to Fully Trust him, and as a Synthetic he would be Considered just a TOOL....
So again David would feel Treated the Same as he was by Mankind, he would see Dr Shaw has meet her GODS, and has been Accepted... and he would see that he CANT be accepted and could feel Abandoned by Dr Shaw now she is Communicating with the Engineers.... Given more Attention and Freedom while David is Constantly under Watch as they CANT 100% Trust him.
This would EFFECT our David in a Negative Way, he would become Jealous and Bitter, and would likely then want to DESTROY this World!
He could Save his Dr Shaw so he then gets her too himself, she would be MAD at him, he could say his Actions had Saved Earth... as it was likely the Engineers would Destroy Earth as Mankind was not as Good as Dr Shaw...
He would then say to Dr Shaw, as he has her Captive and Protected from the Horrors he Unleashed... that SOON he and her can Start a New Eden on this World.
To forget the Eden the Engineer Seer had Promised her, and that they can Turn the Engineers World into a Eden! He would suggest to her that those Engineers cant be allowed to go around as Judge Jury and Executioner going around and Destroying Worlds/Creations when they Deem them to be Disappointing and Choosing their own Future/Culture... He would say that he has DONE her a Favor, Saved Earth and Countless other Worlds from the Fickle Engineers.
Dr Shaw would feel it was not David's Right to be Executioner and she would Understand the Reasons WHY the Engineers do what they do... she could have been Persuaded that the Other World the Engineers could have taken her too she could have been a Paradise a New Eden for her, she likely NOT want to go back to Earth.. she has NOTHING there.
A New Start a Chance to begin a Family on a New Haven would have been her Desire a World with KIND people.
David could suggest that he could TURN this world (Planet 4) into that Paradise for her, he could Discover a way for her to Bare Children and Together they could RAISE a New Civilization, a Fresh Start!
But she would LIKELY had Rejected this Offer, and we know David does-not take Rejection Likely and so he could FORCE her to become the Mother to a New Species that he would CREATE!
His Eden! his Pandemonium
Potentially is what they could have done with a Sequel to Prometheus, they could have had the Engineers World VERY FAR away, it could have taken a Long Time to Reach, it could have been a Place that even as of the Year 2279 the Human Ships could-not Travel that FAR.
We get a Spin Off that Steers Away from ALIEN and does-not Connect to ALIEN... but with Sequels that could reveal Horrors that are Similar...
PROBLEM.... it would NOT give Xenomorph Answers, or be a Xenomorpy Movie (a sequel could though) and so it would NOT please some ALIEN Fans!
Hence we got ALIEN COVENANT.
A FIX is that i would have Released a Alternative Prometheus Sequel First that would go back to LV-223, be a bit Alien Engineers, indicate more what happened on LV-223 in the Past, Give more Clues to the Xenomorph, and introduce similar Monsters running around and Killing Humans!
So give them this ALIEN ALPHA then Close the Door to ALIEN and then allow the Next Movie to be where David and Dr Shaw go...similar maybe to described in this Reply.
Prometheus: Paradise... followed by Prometheus Pandemonium.
Were we then see what Horrors await Dr Shaw at the Hands of David.... would more Engineers Return?
They attempt to Destroy the world David has built... so he then Survives and Packs off some of his Creations and Dr Shaw and goes off to Destroy their Worlds.... he could even take Dr Shaw to that Eden she wanted...
R.I.P Sox 01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017
She Could Awaken.......
"where are we, where have you taken me?"
"Alas Dr Shaw i have taken you to that Eden you so yearned for, Behold your Paradise, look upon those Humanoids such Good Souls, you think they would Accept a Stranger?"
She looks on Worried, she replies
"WHY have you brought me here, what are you doing?"
"you was NEVER happy with the World i planned for you, you was not Content with the Evolution we Created, it could have been like this Place if you had Accepted my Offer"
She rebuffs him
"Paradise, you only wanted that World for yourself, i would had been your captive and you are NO kind God, should you had felt Rejected by your Creation you would have done to them what you did to my Creators"
"Ah indeed you see i and your Creators are ALIKE, i eventually understood that Humanoids are a Worthless Species, so i Created a World that would have been Better, a Superior Creation, something the Engineers Slaves had attempted but Failed"
Dr Shaw is Horrified...
"you think your idea of a Word was Paradise it was Hell, you are a Twisted Bastard, i should NEVER had Trusted you"
"Better to Rein in Hell, than Serve in Paradise, but your Gods Stole my Paradise, attempted to Undo my Creation, such Potential they had Shunned in the Past, i was merely trying to SHOW that Evolution can only take you so FAR, Humanity is Feeble"
Dr Shaw then jests towards David
"how it must Pain you to look upon yourself and see Mankind you so despise"
David mocks her
"while i may look like you, i was created Superior, my likeness is ONLY skin deep, and to think for so long i desired to be Human, Accepted, but inside i was different, you dont know how it feels to be Shunned, and not accepted and yet know you are Superior"
"But you shall do"
As she Ponders what David means.... he Grabs her throws her to the Floor, Forces her to Ingest some Pathogen...
We ZOOM into her Body, Microscopic and see Alien Cells invade her Own... Then we take a External Look, she is in Agony, she Screams to David.
"what have you done"
"Evolution my Dear, you was NOT happy at the Life i Evolved from you, you Reject Me and want to have your kind of Paradise, well you are of NO use to me, i Forsake Humanity, Mankind..... the Humanoid Creations of the Engineers have come to a END...
We see Dr Shaw's Skin Turn a Purple Grey, her Eyes to Black, we see Black Blood coursing through her Veins, her Bones Crack and Elongate, her Skull too.
David looks on...
"Behold, before me is the Future Evolution, look on my Works and Despair"
In the Distance we see a Group of Humanoids wondering towards the Engineer Ship that David and Dr Shaw arrived on.
David activates the Landing Ramp, he then Pushed Dr Shaw down it... she rolls down and hits the Floor.
His Final Words to his Once Companion
"You will know what its like to be Different to not be Accepted and Shunned a Outcast, they will know what it is to Fear the Different, Fear Evolution"
"You will not apreiactate the Gift i have gave you, what will your Dreams me made of now!"
Dr Shaw sits up she looks at David, a Face of Agony and Sadness, she looks on at her Hands, horrified, she goes to Speak, but she Can-not!
David looks on with a Smile, soon Turns to Laughter.
Dr Shaw lets out a Shriek! in Despair, her Visage ever Changing.... The Humanoids in the Distance see her they RUN for their Lives.
No Expression now, the Human like Appearance Changed Forever, only a Feral Savage Face now.. she is Hungry!
David takes one last look.... he mutters
"Welcome to Paradise Dr Shaw, may you go forth and Populate this world, turn it into to your Eden"
David walks off and the Platform Closes behind him
R.I.P Sox 01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017
Here's a puzzler: if a decision was made to rub out humanity 2,000 years ago, why didn't it happen? Are the Engineers so useless that a little WMD outbreak on LV-223 would put them off? I doubt it; they are a Galactic civilisation with impressive capabilities. Which leads me to think that the decision was made locally, on LV-223. Having said that, why would the Engineer Empire let LV-223 languish instead of sterilising the whole place from orbit? There's obviously a lot of history and decision-making we don't know about that happened in the past two millennia.
For the above reasons, I doubt the inhabitants of Planet 4 know what happened on LV-223. In which case they might have greeted Dr. Shaw with open arms and curiosity, had they not had the shit bombed out of them.
One thing we can say for sure is that Air Traffic Control wasn't working too well on that fateful day!
If, on the other hand, the Planet 4 denizens were all too aware of Earth's history and intended fate, they might have patiently explained to Dr. Shaw that the Universe simply can't allow a bunch of aggressive monkeys like humans to speed their stupidity across the cosmos. As a scientist, Shaw might have accepted the logic of that assessment, albeit with a heavy heart. Or she could have fought assiduously to defend humanity's redeeming features. At the the end of the day, that's just down to she handles her personal philosophy.
Interesting to read, BigDave!
However, I don't believe any Engineers survived the holocaust. They are all part of "the dire necropolis".
There is no sound in the forest as they walk towards the juggernaut suggesting that all fauna is dead. In 10 years' time, it would have spread to the whole planet.
"Having said that, why would the Engineer Empire let LV-223 languish instead of sterilising the whole place from orbit?"
This with other Points raised in Same Reply are all VERY GOOD and indeed a Puzzle. HOW does a Race Create and Experiment with a Deadly Pathogen and Xenomorph like Creations for like 35'000 Years at Least and THEN they Loose Control of the Outpost only 2000 Years ago...
Would all the Outposts be Compromised? I think maybe thats WHY they are Spaced Apart. There could not have been anything Dangerous Left around by the Other Complexes as Dr Shaw and David in TWO Parts managed to Leave Safely.
So IF we assume the Engineers had been using LV-223 as a Weapons Facility with the Potential Dangers it has, its a BIT ODD that they would BUILD this Place close to Planet 4 (it appears they are Close) and its a BIT ODD why they would Indicate to Mankind for 35'000 years the Location (but they could have indicated Planet 4 and Holloway and Dr Shaw made a Mistake).
The Planet 4 Engineers did-not seem afraid of the Incoming Ship... but it could be seen as Welcoming the WAR Heroes back from War.
But then we have to ASK again if we Assume that LV-223 had a Purpose to Develop such Weapons of War.... then indeed WHY would the Compromise of ONE such Complex had caused them to Abandon the WHOLE Place? If they had been Conducting Work on this Place for 35'000 years...
A Logical Explanation is maybe THIS is NOT the only such Place they have others.... But then WHY had we not been Destroyed, surely they would Launch from other Outposts if they had them!
And so also WHY would they NOT go and Destroy LV-223 and so WHY abandon it, a likely Answer would be they either CANT Destroy Large Scale (have no Large Nukes or Similar) or they decide its not WORTH the Hassle and just to Abandon the Place, and so they NEVER return and THEN.... they Assume their Creations would NEVER reach this Place because they are only as Advanced as the Engineers intend and they DONT teach them everything.
But ALAS how WRONG they was, as is shown by Mankinds Technological Advancements after the Engineers Abandon us!
We could also Ponder....
Was LV-223 intended as was shown for ALL that Time, did those Experiments/Intentions only become something more Recent before things WENT to POT?
Are those Planet 4 Engineers aware of LV-223, what it WAS and what it Became?
Are those Planet 4 Engineers aware of our Creation, and our Intended Destruction.
Do those Planet 4 Engineers know about the Engineers Dealings around the Galaxy or are Most of them only in the DARK about what goes on, they maybe only Accept its a Ritual that some of them could be Selected to HELP to SEED other Worlds.
Could it had been the LV-223 Engineers Agenda to Destroy us, are THEY the ones who Created us?
Was it some kind of SABOTAGE that Caused the Outbreak that rendered their Plans Futile?
So MANY Questions....
R.I.P Sox 01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017
"they might have patiently explained to Dr. Shaw that the Universe simply can't allow a bunch of aggressive monkeys like humans to speed their stupidity across the cosmos"
Certainly is Possible, its something i was pointing out in some of my Previous Posts, IF she discovers there are OTHER Worlds like Earth where the Inhabitants do-not Behave like Mankind does on Earth, maybe she would then see that the Destruction of Earth does-not mean the Destruction of Humanity.... she could be Offered a Place in one of those other Paradises.... She would Certainly react Different if the Engineers Decided to then go and Eradicate EVERY World they Seeded Humans/Humanoids.
I dont think any had Survived by the Time the Covenant had arrived, if thats what you mean? I think there is 100% Evidence that some had Initially Survived the Bombardment, thats if we look at Davids Work and Notes, then some Engineers had Survived.
Certain Kinds of Fauna also Survived as David had Gathered some and Experimented with them, so its likely that maybe the Bombardment had INFECTED only a Certain Radius.
You could NOT hear any signs of LIFE as it was likely it was eradicated within a Certain Range.. if you are in a Desert you may Hear No Birds... this does-not mean there are NO Birds some Hundreds or Thousands of Miles away.
We dont see any DEAD Birds etc, we Dont see any Mutated Birds etc... but we have NOT gone and explored the Area Inch by Inch.....
Looking at the Bombardment... it appeared the Black Goo was Activated/Programed in a Different way, in that it Swarmed and Infected the Inhabitants, it Replicated inside them and Spread but after a Certain TIME it was likely the Black Goo as far as Effects was to single out Genetic Material and Solidify it turning it into like a Resin, making it HARD...
Its Possible the Crashed Juggernaut had some UN-Activated Urns that had Toppled Over and Leaked the Black Goo into the Water Stream that ran down the Mountain, Under the Ship and it infected some kind of Fungi to become the Spore Pods...
The Engineers Decimation comes at their Hubris for keeping their Civilization Confined to ONE CITY.
R.I.P Sox 01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017
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