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ALIEN: Back to the Future Part 2

ALIEN: Back to the Future Part 2

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BigDave

Jan-12-2019 4:14 PM

Welcome to Part 2 of the Back to the Future Series (First Installment HERE)... were at this Juncture i would like to discus/cover what was SET-UP for Prometheus Sequel.  And where it should have gone.

THE SET-UP

After Prometheus in 2012 Ridley Scott had announced they had plans to carry on the Prequels with a Sequel to Prometheus with revelations that the Next Movie would Steer Away from ALIEN and take us into a NEW Direction.  He felt that the you could not leave Prometheus how it ended and that you HAD to follow on with the PATH of where David and Dr Shaw would be heading.

Ridley Scott initially suggesting we will go to the Planet of the Engineers, were Dr Shaw wants to meet our MAKERS,  we would Discover these beings who are NOT Gods (not in the Traditional Sense) and who are FAR from Benevolent. But David would be Bringing HELL with him and what happens if the Black Goo infects a God or a Machine?

Ridley Scott talks about our Engineers being Fallen Angels, and that the Movie would loosely have elements from Paradise Lost (Philosophy).  He also talks about the Relationship and Dynamic between Dr Shaw and David, where he suggest Dr Shaw is at a Catch 22 Situation, and that David with his head on can be VERY Dangerous but he is very Persuasive.  Ultimately Dr Shaw has little Choice.

We witness from the END of Prometheus that David and Dr Shaw managed to Locate another Engineer Ship (of which there are MANY) and they had managed to leave LV-223 with the Ship.  Prior to Leaving (likely before they boarded the Juggernaught) Dr Shaw had left a Transmission to WARN anyone who comes close, that this place is FULL of DEATH and to STAY AWAY.

THE DEVELOPMENT

The sequel to Prometheus  had gone through quite a Developmental Hell with Jack Paglen brought in to work on a Draft that went through a number of changes, but seemed to be about David and Dr Shaw discovering some World Related to the Engineers.   Then Micheal Green came in to work a number of Revisions, were it seemed the Engineers connections to Fallen Angels and Paradise Lost seemed to play a part in the Direction they would explore our WOULD-BE-CREATORS.

Then it Entered Limbo..... until Harper and Logan came in to give us what eventually became Alien Covenant.

So i propose to you to Discus, maybe were they SHOULD have taken the Sequel...  If we cast our minds back to the JUNCTURE were  David and Dr Shaw had successfully found another Engineer Ship and JUST left LV-223.

Where NEXT! should the Story had gone?

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

36 Responses to ALIEN: Back to the Future Part 2

dk

Jan-12-2019 8:30 PM

It sounds like Jack Paglen's draft at least started out with The Crossing. In hindsight, maybe it would have been better to continue with his draft.

BigDave

Jan-13-2019 3:43 PM

Well it would be interesting to see some of the Earlier Drafts, by Crossing i assume you mean were we left off at the END of Prometheus...

I think we can only Speculate what his Draft involved.

All that seems Certain is that David and Dr Shaw at some point END up on a World Connected to the Engineers, where they discover these beings are NOT Benevolent (do they meet any?)  These beings are NOT Gods...   Dr Shaw still wants her Answers.... WHY was we Created, WHY did the Engineers Want to Destroy/Abandon us?  and WHO Created them.

What we further know is that Dr Shaw would eventually have to Put David back together, knowing the Risk, but he Persuades her and ONCE his Head Goes back on.. he is DANGEROUS...  (and so Potentially could do what ever he wants... WHAT his Agenda is... is the Big Question).

Finally he is BRINGING HELL with him.... (Cargo) and what happens if this infects a God or Machine!

Thats the Nuts and Bolts of it all... HOW they explored that is the Question.... and raises the Problems they Faced...

*Would a Movie about David and Dr Shaw be enough?

*How would they survive if FACED with a Species who are Not Benevolent?

Dr Shaw and David VS  Thousands, Millions of Evil Technologically Advanced SOBS!

If we are to continue with a Non Benevolent Race... was RS referring to those LV-223 beings or the Engineers that David and Dr Shaw would find should they GO to the Engineers Home-world?

Then IF they discover such BEINGS... what kind of Interaction takes place?  David having to roughly act as Translator?

ONE Human, ONE Android and a Number of Engineers were David has to Translate and we get Sub-Titles.. could be a Movie a lot of people would not be interested but the DIE-HARD Prometheus Fans..

So this was ONE Problem they Faced.... a Problem my Prometheus 3 idea (my Prometheus 2 was mainly Not set around Engineers or David/Dr Shaw).  Had a clever way to address!

A way that would have NOT left them Forced to Introduce Humans from Earth! Thus bringing the Engineers Home-world closer to Home!

Nope my Place David and Dr Shaw arrived at was FAR FAR away!

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

dk

Jan-14-2019 9:42 PM

This may sound funny but it is meant to be serious. I really hate subtitles- I hate reading while missing on screen action. I think David might make a version of a translator so we could skip that mess. Here is one of the best sci fi examples of how to get around that whole thing- only 1 minute:

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YWqHkYtREAE

 

BigDave

Jan-17-2019 2:47 PM

Ha ha... Indeed....

There are ways they could have gone, i for one found the Potential for Humans to just be on EARTH to be limited in scope of Prometheus... either some Humans were taken from Earth or Humans came from another Place in the Galaxy are where i would have taken the Story.

Also the Plot indicates the Engineers had influenced our Culture, and so Language is likely influenced by them too, so ONE or more of the Ancient Languages could be spoken on more than Earth Thousands of Years Ago.

Dr Shaw in her Studies would surely Understand some Ancient Languages.   But we also could have a Technology the Engineers  or other Humans have that would allow Dr Shaw to understand them...

Or even have some Device or Spiritual Transfer Method (Vulcan Mind Meld) to allow Dr Shaw to understand the Language of any Humanoids they Discovered.

They would then NOT have a Franchise that Conflicts with the Alien Franchise...

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

BigDave

Jan-17-2019 3:17 PM

The Potential was there to give Great Depth to the Vastness of Space these Engineers had worked in....

The RED DOT is about where our Solar System is and Zeta 2 would also Fall within this Zone....   They could have had David and Dr Shaw travel to any Further Area of Space for example any of the GREEN DOTS.

Thus taking us to a World that is FAR beyond the Space Travel Scope of Mankind Circa Alien Franchise.  To a Place that is 10'000-40'000 Light Years from Earth

Thus allowing them to Explore the Engineers World without any Conflict with the ALIEN Franchise... and by the Time David and Dr Shaw have got to this place and Caused CHAOS.. any Aftermath where would be Engineers on a Warpath would seek Destruction to Earth could take place in a Time Way Past the Events of Aliens or even Alien Resurrection.

The Plot of Prometheus expands our Engineers to the Furthest Reaches of the Galaxy and BEYOND... is Earth the only other Place were we have Humanoids or even Humans the Engineers have interacted with?

The Problem with this would be the Language Barrier but we can at least speculate the Engineers would speak various Ancient Languages and so some of the Oldest Languages on Earth could be shown to exist at some point on other Worlds.

Or there are ways to get around Translations..

The PLOT of Alien Covenant to have the Engineers Home-world also located within that RED DOT has made them Write themselves into a Corner!

If you was the Engineers and invested a lot of Time into the Human Race.. on Earth... would you just Abandon it all?

If the Problem came down to Mankind not behaving in a way that you intended... this comes from Upbringing, Interaction and Knowledge which Corrupts.....

I think it makes sense for the Engineers to have collected some Humans to Breed to make Children and then Raise these Children with a FRESH-START where they are not Corrupted by the ways of Earths Men!

You could then attempt to Destroy Earth... and failing that just WASH your hands with those Primitives because without your Help (Engineers) they would NEVER advance beyond what you have taught (Iron Age) and so you leave them to ROT and Just Kill Each other.... as your Species have Been Involved in Many Worlds and so the LOSS of just ONE World to their Corrupt Inhabitants is NO Big Loss.

You have a number of other Worlds, and Human Colonies to watch over and NOT let the same problems arise again... Let those Mortals on Earth ROT in their Stone Buildings with their Crude Tools.   For they will NEVER master the Wonders that your kind have (Engineers) For without the Engineers in the first place... Mankind would be just as Cave-Men and without the Engineers NOW... we shall be Stuck on our Rock FOREVER!

Or so in HUBRIS they thought!

This route makes sense and opens up many a Potential...

Especially what happens when Dr Shaw and David turn up to a World that has Humans who are Unaware that they are NOT alone in the Galaxy?

But.... ALAS!

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

chli

Aug-09-2019 11:28 PM

It would be very interesting to read Jack Paglen's draft. I wonder if it's possible to get it somehow? I suppose 20th Century Fox has the legal rights to it?

chli

Aug-10-2019 12:01 AM

I think that AC had a kind of logical continuation from Prometheus. David developed towards this even in Prometheus and the relationship with Shaw was doomed and her fate sealed when she attached his head. The doppelganger motif is always interesting and the plot was generally good. I don’t mind David dabbling in creation either (as long as he doesn’t end up as the Space Jockey).

However, the movie was too much about action and a heroine who is like superman. They wanted to please the Aliens fans - not the Alien fans.

Apart from having interesting characters and very good actors, Alien was creepy and scary (which AC was not). The monster was lurking and sneaking through dark hallways and vents. In AC there was action and a rapid tempo. In order to create a scary atmosphere, you have to slow the tempo down and let the camera slowly move through the dark hallways.

So, I don’t think it’s the plot which is the problem with AC, it’s how it’s done.

BigDave

Aug-10-2019 4:34 PM

Certainly i think it would be Interesting to see how far and to what Extent things had Changed with Alien Covenant.  As it was the Summer of 2015 when John Logan had came in to adapt Dante Harpers earlier Paradise into Paradise Lost work which then November changed to become Alien Covenant.

Micheal Green gets Credit in those Drafts, but not Jack Paglen who had began working on a Earlier Project before Green came in Late 2014.

So it would be interesting to see how much different the Earlier Ideas were, i think Ridley Scott had indicated a bit about where it was going, which seemed to be Quite Different to what we ended up with.

Regarding AC i think it was not a Bad Idea Plot wise, i think the David is the Creator Curveball was a Mistake and trying to go a Direct Prequel Route (so that without the Events of Alien Covenant we would not have ALIEN).

I think the Execution was not that Good and the Big Problem was they was trying to get Too Much in a under 2 Hour Movie and so Short Cuts, and Pacing had to be taken into account which is why some Scenes where just RUSHED.

I know the Changes came out of FOX feeling that maybe they should have gave more Clues/Answers in Prometheus, and maybe Fans would like to see Xenomorphs again...

But they could have gave a Sequel that could have gave more Clues to the Xenomorph and remain it as Ancient, and introduce Xenomorphs without having to EFFECT where Dr Shaw and David are going.

Problem would be how do they involved DAVID? it seemed they felt that David and Dr Shaw (in earlier drafts) had to be part of a Prometheus Sequel.

In Hindsight they should have given us a Alternative Sequel and go to LV-223 that would have had more CLUES to the Derelict, introduced Xenomorphs or something Very Similar... and allowed them to CLOSE the Door to ALIEN.

They could have Cast Fassbender as another David Model... he could have been a Survivor who then at the END of the Movie would want to be off to where the Engineers Came from LOOKING to Destroy them... (get Revenge)

They could have then had the Next Movie be about David and Dr Shaw as they arrive at a Engineer World that is FAR FAR away, it may even take a LONG Time..... and it could be open that after these events.... we have a Sequel where the OTHER incoming David is on his way!

But what about Human Characters.... again do we assume Earth is the only Place that had Humans prior to the dawn of Mankind on Earths expeditions into Space...  So it just took a bit more CLEVER thinking to come up with Alternative Stories than we got..

For example you Never had to go and do a Direct Literal Prequel to Cover the Derelict or Xenomorph Origins.. a Re-Visit to LV-223 where more Exploration is done with less Ambiguity... then show a Discovery of some Eggs and Xenomorphs or VERY Similar, thats all that would have been needed.

Oh WELL....  it may seem i put a lot of counter arguments in support of the Eggs not being Ancient... this is NOT to suggest this is the route i am Fond Of..

It should have been KEPT to Ancient and either keep it a Mystery or Find other ways to give the Answers without having to Force them within a Time Frame of Post 2105.

But ALAS.... 

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

chli

Aug-11-2019 8:43 AM

Well, W-Y would have examined what happened to Sir Peter Weyland, Miss Vickers and the expensive ship, wouldn’t they? It seems logical that they would investigate LV-223 before sending colonists to Origae-6?

It would be interesting to go back to LV-223. They would find the body of Sir Peter Weyland. Would the Deacon still be alive? What’s in the other pyramid mounds?

MonsterZero

Aug-11-2019 11:37 AM

Well, W-Y would have examined what happened to Sir Peter Weyland, Miss Vickers and the expensive ship, wouldn’t they?

I'm not sure they would bother?..If my boss flew off to Africa (to do something and crashed the expe$ive company jet).....Doubt I'd even fly down to check the crash site. I/we've got control of the company! 'Time to implement the changes it drastically needs!', "Higher wages! more transparency!...'Sad about the old man and his daughter but we've a company to run.....Now our first change...'

 

I would love a return to LV-223 But I think this opens a can of worms?

 

MonsterZero

Aug-11-2019 11:43 AM

I would watch a LIVE CAM of LV-223 (probably night and day!) Don't need a scripted movie...Just watch the razor storms roll across the planet and a couple shots of the tombs....Hoping to catch a glimpse of movement!

 

Did you see that!!?....Something near the escape pod moved?!?...........probably just the wind?

chli

Aug-11-2019 8:28 PM

MonsterZero

What about a pending lawsuit concerning insurance money? In a way, it was sabotage of the ship where Janek went against company orders (Miss Vickers').

Surely, there would be an investigation . . .

BigDave

Aug-12-2019 7:15 AM

I think Certainly there would have at Some Point been a Mission or Investigation to inspect what had happened to the Ship and its Crew.....   The only way something would be Brushed Under the Carpet would be by someone WHO would Benefit from the Death of Peter Weyland and Miss Vickers.

The other Board Members would likely had known that Weyland does-not have Many Years left in him, so it was only a Matter of Time... so for anyone else at the Company then having Miss Vickers simply Disappear would then Open the Door to Benefit someone else.

If we consider that, then who ever would GAIN could certainly had done a Cover-Up, a Sham Investigation so they could then Take-Over or Benefit from the Company.

They may have NO Concern to what happened to Prometheus and WHO-KNOWS what Officially Weyland had told them about the Mission.  They would only be interested in the ASSETS that Mr Weyland had.

But certainly in Light of the Advent Video by David, then it would be VERY likely the Company would surely Investigate LV-223.

"I would love a return to LV-223 But I think this opens a can of worms?"

I actually think it would Provide Answers, by Virtue of LV-223 being there it is a Can of Worms... a Mission to LV-223 could Conclude with its Destruction which would then make LV-223 something that would NOT Conflict the Franchise.

"They would find the body of Sir Peter Weyland"

It depends on WHICH of the Complexes they Visit! do they go to the Life-Boat, where did Dr Shaws Warning come from etc.

This image is intended to show that the Prometheus Wreckage and Life-Boat too are before the First Temple which the Prometheus Crew Visited.  We see from the Ending that Dr Shaw is heading from Near the First Temple Complex and NOT from the Juggernaught, so she LIKELY had gone to the Wreckage or Life-Boat First.

So it would be Likely the Message was Sent from the Life-Boat so that surely would be a Place any incoming Mission would Investigate, but then they would also likely Check Out the Crashed Juggernaut.

So YES i think its Highly Likely they would Discover Mr Weyland's Body.

"Would the Deacon still be alive?"

This depends on HOW-LONG does the Deacon Live, we simply dont know, or HOW it could Procreate so its UNKNOWN if they would come Across the Deacon, given it could be Many Years after the Deacon was Born.  If the Deacon dies then what becomes of its Body?

We also dont know HOW-FAR the Deacon could Wonder Off and so its UNKNOWN where it eventually went or would be.  But i think if the Crew go into the First Temple or Crashed Ship maybe they could come across Similar by Virtue of Contact with the Pathogen... also have to Consider the Hammerpedes.

"What’s in the other pyramid mounds?"

We can only Speculate, i would assume Similar things maybe happened in those places? It seems for some Reason that Dr Shaw and David were Heading to the 2nd Complex, and we do see that David had Bombarded the Engineers on Planet 4 with a Cargo that was on the Ship they had obtained.  There appears to be more than ONE Hanger per Complex, but maybe Dr Shaw felt the First Complex was Compromised to Risk going back to...

But the other Juggernaut they obtained also has a Bio-Weapon and we could Speculate that maybe each Complex has a Variant of the Black Goo? 

Maybe each Complex has more than ONE variation inside?

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

BigDave

Aug-12-2019 7:35 AM

"Prometheus. David developed towards this even in Prometheus and the relationship with Shaw was doomed and her fate sealed when she attached his head"

This Certainly would be TRUE... before we got Alien Covenant, RS had said that Eventually Dr Shaw would put David back together again, but once she does this he would be Very Dangerous, but he was also Very Convincing.

So Ultimately once he is in ONE piece then Dr Shaw is at the Whim of WHATEVER it is that David wants, especially once she is in Cryo-Sleep then David is Free to do or Go where-ever he wants... HE would surely Care for his OWN Agenda..

But instead of Messing About on LV-223 or going to Earth with a Engineer Ship, he does indeed go to a Engineer World, The Crossing implies that David discovers more about the Engineers, their ways, which maybe could Influence the reason he Bombarded them!

The other Factor to Consider is that David sees himself as ALIVE, he would want to Survive and if he LOVED his Travel Companion then he would want to ensure that SHE also Survives.

He would NOT care much about WHAT she wanted to Find Out, the MOST Important thing would be SURVIVAL... so for that he could maybe NOT risk going down to see the Engineers as you cant GUARANTEE they would Roll Out the Red Carpet and Accept them..... never mind give them Answers.

It is likely that he FELT from the remnants of the Engineers City he could maybe Discover Answers for Dr Shaw.  He could likely then TRY and offer Dr Shaw something she could GAIN from all of this... IF he was unable to get any Answers from what remained.

I think it would have been Highly Likely Regardless of IF we never had Alien Covenant but a Prometheus 2, that David would have Destroyed the Engineers to ensure his and Dr Shaws Survival.

Then i would assume David would want to have Dr Shaw as a Companion but it would be more for his OWN needs than Dr Shaw's own Happiness if he felt that She did-not want to be his Companion or agree with what ever Plans that he has... its likely that David would TURN on her.

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

ignorantGuy

Aug-12-2019 8:10 AM

@chli "I think that AC had a kind of logical continuation from Prometheus. David developed towards this even in Prometheus and the relationship with Shaw was doomed and her fate sealed when she attached his head. The doppelganger motif is always interesting and the plot was generally good. I don’t mind David dabbling in creation either (as long as he doesn’t end up as the Space Jockey)."

That is only your opinions, wishes, and what you expect from the genre. Other disagree with you. Bet let's take into the inventory what we know. Shaw was killed because the studios asked so not because was inevitable. Why, probably they thought they would make more money. It also made David more villainous in a cheap way. He does not grow any bit in Prometheus he hates humans right from the get go, but somehow is stuck on Shaw. On the commentary track Spaiths says that he sees in her and her man some kind of equals because of there smarts (not very well conveyed on Charlie). In Covenant he considers himself better than humans partly because he is Immortal, after more or less dying in Prometheus. He becomes also a rapist (yes Big Dave he sexually assault Daniels) to explain why the Xenomorph is a rape monster and to become the new main villain.

And you know what, for me the only logical way to finish this is for David to become the Space Jockey, because of genre cliches and motifs. Of course, game novelization will be put aside and contradicted, what non-MCU directors and screenwriters have time for those? 

BigDave

Aug-12-2019 9:03 AM

I think Ultimately while things had Changed from after Prometheus it was Unlikely that David would have continued to had become a Friendly Loving Robot..

The Purpose of this TOPIC would be if we could RE-DO a Prometheus Sequel and so we could IGNORE what happens in Alien Covenant like it Never Existed, hence Back to the Future as in to CHANGE.

Even when considering this i FEEL that Alien Covenant still gives us indications to a more LIKELY outcome to what David would have become..

He would have seen himself as Superior, he would only wanted to go to see these Engineers in order to see what he could GAIN that would be of Benefit to himself...

Weyland said in his Ted Talk... regarding the Future Creation of beings like David... "we are the Gods now"

The Logical Conclusion would have been David's Pursuit to become a GOD and Creator to behold the Engineers Secrets and Technology for his OWN gain.

It would not have been 100% Certain if David would have KILLED her (Dr Shaw), it would appear likely that she would have been CONCERNED and Disagree with Davids Motives and Ambition and likely that Dr Shaw would want NO PART of it..

Which i think David would not take being Turned Down, or have Dr Shaw be against his Wishes... so things LIKELY would have Turned Bad for her...

So if we got a Different Prometheus Sequel it would be likely that a Confrontation would have happened between Dr Shaw and David than any kind of Collaboration it seemed almost inevitable that David would become the Antagonist and this would NOT be too Good for Dr Shaw... this does-not mean that SHE could NOT have Escaped or Survived.  or at least attempted to Get Away from a Twisted Dr Frankenstein that David would have LIKELY had became.

I will add that indeed Ignorantguy to FIT with the Themes that appeared to be at PLAY then a Logical Conclusion could be that David becomes the Space Jockey as the Ultimate Hubris for what he had done...

The Xenomorph being Mankinds Hubris for Creating a David, and also the Engineers for Creating Mankind that lead to David...  It would therefor be Fitting that Davids Creation becomes his Ultimate Hubris too.

With a Logical Conclusion that there is NO God and NO One should PLAY God!

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

ignorantGuy

Aug-12-2019 9:37 AM

BigDave

But that is not the conclusion, as those who are truly guilty are barely punished. Weyland would have died in a matter of days so he asked for more life as Batty and for that he was punished. How is humanity even to blame as a whole in a hyper-capitalist world where evil corporations do shitty stuff? What could they do? Shaw was punished for being kind if anything, which none of the so called gods were. Even the current Engineers are they still guilty for stuff that happened 2000 years ago (to the extreme an anti-Semite would say that current Jews are they blame for the death of Christ, which is stupid)?

PS. I never said that David should be a good robot, but I don't think that you can have a good series with a good guy without a given name (I dare you to say her name without Googles).

chli

Aug-12-2019 12:36 PM

The answer to why the W-Y Corp wasn’t interested in finding out what happened to Sir Peter Weyland might be that the Weyland Corp was taken over by the Yutani Corp (2099) with Hideo Yutani as CEO. On the other hand, for about 5 years Weyland Corp did nothing to find out . . .

About the body of Mr Weyland, the Deacon might have munched on the body. In some novels, the xenomorphs eat meat and when the food supply is gone they get into hibernation until new victims appear.

About the complexes, perhaps there are eggs instead of pathogen in one of them? But that would rule out David as the creator . . .

BigDave

Aug-12-2019 4:10 PM

@Ignorantguy

I see what you mean, i Understand that it was Weyland Who Created David, but what i meant was in General the Pursuit of Science for Mankind could become a Hubris, its Unlikely that Peter Weyland was the only Human and his Company the only one that was trying to Further AI and Robotics, it was Weyland who had became a Pioneer with David though.  I would however think that Weyland was maybe NOT doing all of this for the Best for Mankind, i suspect some Personal Gain was his Motive... thats just a Opinion though.

"PS. I never said that David should be a good robot"

I am sorry if you thought i was implying that, i was not pointing it out as such (in response to you),it was just that i was saying that its LIKELY the Prequels would not have gave us a Story about David becoming a Good Robot with the Best Intentions for Mankind...  i feel it would have been about him trying to become a God/King as he would have inherited a Megalomaniac Personality from his Father.

Regarding Dr Shaw, she did show David kindness, her Downfall was her Stubbornness in her Faith and being Naive.   She surely would have known their was a Chance that she would END UP being Dead anyway... but her Faith would have gave her some Comfort that a BETTER place awaited her.  (Unless she got some Faith Shattering Revelations).

She had put a lot of Trust in David... but Ultimately she had NO Alternative... she would have had to WAIT for a Rescue Mission, where she would have under 2 years so Unless Technology Improves she would be Dead before any arrive.

Or she would have to TRUST that Robot... even if she wanted to go back to Earth.... Once David was back in ONE piece she is at his Mercy/Intentions.

But she had a BIGGER objective... she wanted Answers from those Engineers, even if the THEY would NEVER give her any and KILL her... she would know thats the Risk she would take... she would also know that before she could even GET to the Engineers, she would have to Rely on David being Completely Honest and that he would KEEP his side of the Bargain..

But she rather do that, than just SIT on LV-223, which if she did there is a Good Chance the Deacon could have got to her.

Its Tragic in the End for her... as it seemed it was NOT a case of being Naive, as she Genuinely thought she had WON over David, that he was actually only the way he was due to his Treatment by others, and so she felt that he actually would NOT harm her...

I think all along there are clear seeds that once FREE you really could NOT be Trusting David... he Cares only for himself.

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

BigDave

Aug-12-2019 4:17 PM

"About the complexes, perhaps there are eggs instead of pathogen in one of them? But that would rule out David as the creator . . ."

It seems they Certainly had Experimented with Various Organisms that relate to the Xenomorph, we cant rule out them Storing Eggs, or even that Eggs was the Basis for the Experiments.

Going back to LV-223 especially Directly after Prometheus would have allowed for the connections and horrors to be found to have many a Option on HOW to explore them.

Why in HINDSIGHT... i feel in Reaction to the Fans... they should have done a Prometheus Sequel that went back to LV-223 that was more like a Alien Engineers...  giving more Clues, and introducing some Alien Creatures that Attack the Humans...   and then we could CLOSE the DOOR to ALIEN.

Then after that they could have Released a Direct Prometheus Sequel that would go where David and Dr Shaw are going and take us to a FAR FAR away place that does-not have to Worry about what Alien Fans want/expect.

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

MonsterZero

Aug-12-2019 6:27 PM

Surely, there would be an investigation . . .

 

Probably...I could see them sending an unmanned probe OR A synthetic to check the crash, in a really small cheap vessel....or have a ship in the area(to like Alien!!)

Opening credits scene: Razor storms and tombs...Dark and foreboding... 

Opening scene: A small spacecraft landing on LV-223 A synth exits and starts it's survey.....

This android lies completely...reports back false data. Tells Weyland Corp nothing. Only about the misfortune of the crew and the faulty landing node ...Nothing about the tombs.

It's name is Ash.

 

chli

Aug-13-2019 11:20 AM

MonsterZero

As I see it, Ash followed Special Order 937, that is, he did what the company wanted. Had he been on LV-223 (before he becomes the science officer on the Nostromo), the company would already have the pathogen and they probably wouldn't need to search for the xenomorph.

chli

Aug-13-2019 11:32 AM

BigDave

A return to LV-223 after Prometheus might have done the trick. But if, in the next film, we follow David and Shaw, wouldn't the problems be the same? Wouldn't David develop to a vengeful demon anyway?

BigDave

Aug-13-2019 12:42 PM

I would think its likely that David more than likely would have became a Antagonist if we got a Prometheus 2 i think that there would have been something that would have made his Wires Crossed, be it the Engineers saw him as Worthless and Admired Dr Shaw so he becomes Rejected/Insignificant again, and Jelous.

Certainly he would still want to become the God/King and use the Engineers Technology for his own Gain!

To be fair with a Sequel and its maybe WHY they had such a HARD TIME in getting a Story...  Its how do they explore a Paradise... if David and Dr Shaw land and leave the Comfort/Protection of the Ship?

Its the Number of Engineers, what they Knew about our Creation and then our Intended Destruction and how they would React with Dr Shaw and David regardless that makes for a Story thats more TRICKY to get Right.  But not Impossible to come up with something. (just it could go MANY ways and its then Which Idea to Settle on) this is WHY i abandoned my Prometheus 3 idea (Prometheus 2 was set mainly in our Solar System with NO Engineers etc).

So ALL a second Movie that went to LV-223 would have done was to FIX some of the Things and give some Fans a Prequel with more Answers and Monsters than Prometheus gave... in effect a bit of a Alien Engineers like Flick... but based from a Recovery/Investigation Mission.

So giving Fans this KIND of Movie which would be a Prequel to ALIEN but in NO-WAY is a Prequel to the Space Jockey Event... we just get more Clues/Answers,  then this SHOULD please the fans a bit who was Disappointed with Prometheus and NOT interested in David and Dr Shaw wanting to meet more Engineers for Answers in a Franchise that would STEER AWAY from Alien and the Xenomorph.

So those Fans get their FIX and more Answers..

Then a Direct Prometheus Sequel that follows David and Dr Shaw could have been made to explore something else... a Engineers/Space Jockey Spin off Franchise that has NOTHING to do with ALIEN.

In Hindsight going for TWO movies as Such...

Would have KEPT the Space Jockey Event as Ancient, maybe could have kept it a bit of Mystery or certainly drives us down a certain Path of Speculation.  Also could have gave more Clues or Full Answers to the Xenomorph and its Ancient Connection to LV-223 and also at LEAST gave Fans some similar MONSTERS on the Attack.

We THUS would not have ended up with Alien Covenant

We would also had seen more of Dr Shaw and the Engineers and opened up a Endless Potential to where to go NEXT!

What of the Conflict with the Franchise?

As i mentioned a while back on in the TOPIC, who is to say the Place that David and Dr Shaw would go would be WITHIN the Reach of Earths Ships?

Who is to say that they DONT arrive until after the Events of ALIENS or even Alien Resurrection?

Why they could even had gone to ANOTHER Galaxy for Answers.

But Alas it seems the Writers or those who GIVE the YES/NO could not think about such things..

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

MonsterZero

Aug-13-2019 4:34 PM

Chili

'he did what the company wanted.'

My view: Synths and A.I. are working for themselves....Humans are busy with their petty lives....worried about their golf game, stock market and what their are having for dinner.

SO 937 is probably A.I. created.

BigDave

Aug-13-2019 5:08 PM

Thats Absurd!!!!!

Not really ;)

I do suspect some kind of Twist was Planned to Reveal that by the Time of ALIEN the Company is being RAN by AI and Mankind are None-the-Wiser...

Maybe some Humans are in the Know, but they do so as to Benefit themselves,  maybe the AI has given them a Covenant, a agreement something for their Greedy Hands to Benefit from.

If the Plot Remains the Same that David is the Creator, then it would give more Reason for WHY it is that ASH really Admired the Xenomorph.  It was a Creation by one of his Forefathers so to Speak.

A Company Ran by AI would also help Explain the Relentless Pursuit of the Xenomorph at a Constant Folly to those who TRY..... the Human Cost maters not as Humans are In-superior and Expendable.

This Plot was what i was indicating with my Prometheus 2 i was working on in 2013, which i Lost and i Abandoned..  it would have gone the Path to show that Weylands AI Soul is running the Show!

Revelation that he had Created and Perfected David as a Experiment to Create the Ideal Vessel/Shell for a AI Soul to be Uploaded to...

While he thought he Perfected that.... he Sadly could NOT manage a way to Upload a Human Soul, Emotions, Memories and Experiences into  AI that would then REMAIN Stable......   Each Attempt would Fail as the AI Soul becomes Crazy, Delusional and then just completely Crashes/Breaks down.

Programing a Synthetic to have Human like Emotions is ONE thing, and this Potentially has Pitfalls (which we see with David in Alien Covenant) but to actually Transfer and Maintain a Human Soul into a AI is FAR more Unstable.

This was Project Rook which Weyland had discussed with David while playing CHESS in a Flash Back...

Ultimately this NEVER worked out... so Weylands attempts to CHEAT DEATH had Failed and THUS in Desperation he Turned to Dr Shaw and Holloways chasing GODS!

The END of my Prometheus 2 would have shown that Project Rook gets Activated as Vickers Last Action before she Dies... well not really Dies... do Synthetics Die?  But that was another Twist!

Well the END would be shown that Project Rook goes Live... (Weylands AI Soul)... but as with Prometheus having TWO Endings... (Dr Shaws SOS and then the Deacon).  The Very Last Scene was a SHOT of a Juggernaut arriving at a Solar System and seeing a Large Earth-like Planet in the Distance... FADE to Credits.

This would have set up Prometheus 3 which well, i had difficulty in Finishing as to Explore the Engineers, what else they Create and HOW they would react to David and Dr Shaw is NOT something easy.

I can only imagine that Paglen and Green kept finding the same Problems.. with their Countless Drafts.

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

MonsterZero

Aug-14-2019 6:49 AM

'A Company Ran by AI would also help Explain the Relentless Pursuit of the Xenomorph at a Constant Folly to those who TRY..... the Human Cost maters not as Humans are In-superiorand Expendable.'

 

I agree. AI are stuck in their digital bodies...They are probably very interested in becoming bio-mechanical and all this creation stuff is attractive. 

Humans? Lets make it a weapon! lol! (They have plenty of weapons) ...Maybe the Xeno can live for a very long time or heal itself?..I could see the company trying to sequence the DNA to help themselves live longer.

MonsterZero

Aug-14-2019 6:58 AM

I wonder if Ash, finding the tombs/Juggernaut/Deacon before David, would be able to do anything with the knowledge?

Is Ash smart enough(programmed) to read the Engineer language, open tomb doors, fly alien spacecraft?

Ash would probably just do some dissection and make a report.

BigDave

Aug-14-2019 8:00 AM

Regarding the Xenomorph its not Clear about how long they Live for, it had been Suggested they had a Limited Life Span before, but then also Ridley Scott had suggested they can Regenerate.    In context to a AI then if AI became Sentient they could be interested in the Body of the Xenomorph to upload their AI too, if that was Possible.   But then a AI could go about trying to Build their own more Superior Synthetic Body/Shell instead.

In context to this Topic which is to Suggest a Alternative Path to have gone after Prometheus (Re-boot Alien Covenant) then indeed as a Sequel to Prometheus we could have got a Mission to LV-223 set some 5-20 Years after the events of Prometheus as this Topic is a look at what happens after Prometheus, then it is to Speculate things after and so that Alien Covenant  had NOT happened.

So its not in anyway a FACT/CANON kind of Topic but a Re-Writing of History as a Alternative.

So in that Context then Special Order 937 would have came about likely from another Mission to LV-223, its a case of WHEN would this had happened.

And so as FAR as ASH goes, i would DOUBT that he would be involved in any Mission unless it was at least 15 years after Prometheus maybe more..  ASH was a Hyperdyne Systems Synthetic, and its likely his Model was NOT around at the time of the Walter Models.  We dont have a Date for when ASH would have been Active.  I would certainly Speculate after 2110

So for ASH to had been involved on LV-223/426 prior to ALIEN i would assume the Time-Line would have to be after 2115 so bringing ASH into the Story of a Prequel would FIT with this Topic Better.

Alien: Back to the Future PT4 was offering us a chance to think of a Prequel set before ALIEN but likely set after the Events of the Prequels (surround David)  so a Time-Line of say between 2112-2122 and so that would be a Period more suited to involving ASH.

But Fan Fiction aside... the Reality of Special Order 937 would likely come about after what ever the Company do regarding David's Advent Message.

So Events leading to what becomes Special Order 937 would likely happen after the year 2110 and also maybe would be covered in One of the Next TWO Prequels had they been Given the Green Light. 

The Avenue of Special Order 937 would be likely in response to NOT being able to Obtain anything from Planet 4, Origae-6 and LV-223 but then discovering that there is something to be obtained on LV-426 and so i would Speculate that Special Order 937 is issued in result of Events certainly between 2118-2122 but  Special Order 937 likely had been issued NOT that Long before the Events of ALIEN.

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

MonsterZero

Aug-14-2019 5:37 PM

Well, I'd still have Ash land on LV-223 after the Prometheus accident (however long it would take for him to get there? 6 months? 2 years?) around 2095.

It would be Ash 1 or whatever version before the upgrade/ rebuild.( He could pass all his memories to his 'brothers'? Download/upload?)

He is unable to solve the language of the Engineers and is unable to locate David.

The Deacon(fully grown)prevents him form gathering samples and hanging around....So he leaves to bring back help. Some space marines?

 

 

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