Alien: Covenant
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Continuity is a fickle [email protected]#@ with a short attention span

ninXeno426

Jan-12-2019 2:12 AM

We've talked a Lot lately about where the franchise could go,should go etc. So I've come up with a reason why Alien could be rebooted(i'm still against a reboot for the record) The reason is simple:continuity Starting with Alien 3,The series has struggled to keep a consistent timeline.Alien 3 as great as it's become for a lot of us still can't overcome or properly explain where that egg or eggs came from on the Sulaco.It's proof that Fox was really just concerned with making a little money,not to mention all the versions and directors Alien 3 went through. Alien Resurrection is a tougher case.Not to much wrong with actual continuity(Though Fiorina 161 has become Fiori 16)But it jumps so far away from the trilogy with a clone Ripley and its place in the time line has been virtually ignored ever since. Then we have two sets of prequels.On one hand there are the AVP's which did very little to act as prequel,instead they're disposable pop corn films at best.On the other hand we have Ridley Scott's ambitious but ultimately flawed prequel duo.Prometheus for starters as has been noted numerous times here is much too high tech compared to the retro aesthetic of the original films.Also it's rather loose ties to Alien divided more than anything,only reinforcing Ridleys "don't call it a prequel" campaign. And to make it worse Covenant disregards most of Prometheus.Remember the mural showing what looked like a xenomorph?Nope forget it because according to Riddles David is indeed the creator of the iconic xenomorph.Never mind the fact that i believe he also confirmed the LV-426 derelict had indeed escaped the outbreak on LV-223 only to crash after the space Jockey had a little chest bursting accident. There are probably a whole bunch of things i'm forgetting to mention,but the fact o the matter is Alien hasn't been able to keep it's stories straight for over 25 years now.Maybe a clean slate isn't the worst idea after all...

Nothing the God of biomechanics wouldn't let you in heaven for 

10 Responses to Continuity is a fickle [email protected]#@ with a short attention span

Leto

Jan-12-2019 6:52 AM

No full clean slate, but - far time and far new place. Can be worked.

BigDave

Jan-12-2019 3:41 PM

I think a Reboot would be a bad idea.... Certainly a lot of inconsistencies arise because people working on Next Installments dont seem to consider how any ideas they propose could cause some in-continuity errors.  But certainly such things do allow for us to Discus them because we dont have a Consistent Spoon Fed Explanations.

Alien Covenant seems to open up some ways to explain the Eggs on the Sulaco....  

1) The Movie showed us SMALLER versions of the Eggs, so a Queen could have been Producing some Smaller Eggs, that was in the Process of moving into the Egg Sac to Grow and then be Laid... so she could have had inside her a few Smaller Eggs and Stuck them on the Ship where they Grew!

2) The Movie and Comments by RS, does seem to indicate that AI could be playing a Larger Role... and so the Sulaco could have had a Hidden Sleeper Cell/Android or Bishop had a Special Order that he may not be aware off... a Order that is Activated and then he has no recollection of.. so similar to the Manchurian Candidate or The Montauk Project  

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

BigDave

Jan-12-2019 3:54 PM

In Hindsight a Prequel was always going to be Problematic... because NO Matter what Direction you take that reveals WHO the Space Jockey was and WHERE the Xenomorphs came from... you are NEVER going to please EVERY FAN...   sometimes a Mystery is best kept as such, were we can indulge our individual ideas.... but when anyone FINALLY uncovers these Mysteries they may find it hard to give us something thats a Good as our Imaginations.

This Especially could be said about the Engineers Plot... but i understand WHY this route was taken, which i have explained before and so wont take up a lot of Space giving MY TWO Cents on it.   Then we had the David Created it Plot which again i can understand WHY they had chose this route.

Things Change as they go along... and indeed at the Time of Prometheus and just after, the Xenomorph Eggs were on the Derelict Thousands of Years ago and NOT created by David.   I will say HOWEVER... there are NO 100% Clues to suggest the Xenomorph was depicted in the MURAL it was kept a bit vague... but it was to represent the Deacon.

The case of doing a ALIEN movie was also going to be Tricky... if we never had the Prequels but they gave us a ALIEN Movie, then Fans would be wondering WHY it doe-not continue the Ripley Saga....  or have connections to her!

Doing  a REBOOT! would be a BUST to a degree..

How do we do a Reboot?  Does it follow the Same Plot... a Company Ship is sent to a ALIEN World after detecting a Signal and they investigate and get infected with Xenomorph Eggs....      Doing a COPY of ALIEN would not be ideal, but then doing a REBOOT where certain aspects are Changed, may affect the Original Franchise.

Does a Reboot Change were the Eggs are found? so they are found in a Temple or in a Egg Silo?  Do they change the Protagonist to a Male?  Do we get the Egg Morph?  Do we get the Xenomorphs shown to be the remnants of a Intelligent Species like in Star Beast?

All of the ABOVE can be covered in a ALIEN movie that does-not have to Reboot anything!

Its pretty open to where else those Engineers could have experimented on similar things that they did on LV-223, its open to what other worlds they may have deployed or attempted to deploy the Bio-Weapon..

So i dont think any Reboots are Necessary!

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

dk

Jan-12-2019 9:47 PM

A reboot might not be such a bad idea. I just don't think it should be in theaters. Take everything that works and is great about the franchise and keep it while ditching the baggage of the time line issues and such. 

BigDave

Jan-13-2019 3:15 PM

I still think its a Tough Cookie to decide what route to go with any Movie... i think regardless, a Majority are going to want Xenomorphs or Similar,  they may be split on a Action Passed Movie or more of a Alien/Alien 3 Flick.   I also then think Fans would be interested in Part in Queens, while some would want something NEW and a Majority would like to explore the Space Jockey Race and again some may want something more than the Engineers.

There is plenty of Potential without having to Re-hash anything or Re-boot, they just need a idea with some Imagination...  i could THROW OUT a number for them ;)

As i have said before... we DONT KNOW what becomes of these places between Alien Covenant and ALIEN.

*LV-223

*Planet 4

*Origae-6

*The Covenant Ship

All could have remnants of either Xenomorph (or similar) Black Goo, and Engineers, include their Technology.

And with the Scope of Prometheus are such things limited to ONLY those 4 Scenarios and LV-426?  But i doubt those who work on the Projects have any such imagination and so we would always come back to LV-426 and Ripley!

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

ninXeno426

Jan-14-2019 1:55 AM

I'm still against rebooting as well.I know i use it as an example too often but Terminator is a good example regardless.We have Terminator and Terminator 2,then we have a 3 which made numerous continuity errors(have to consult my brother for that one)Then Salvation which was 4 and a soft reboot.Then there's the tv series that ignores the latter films.Then Genisys was yet another reboot that discarded 3,4 and Tv series only to fail which leaves us with this years new reboot that acts as a "true Terminator 3". It's a mess to say the least

Nothing the God of biomechanics wouldn't let you in heaven for 

ninXeno426

Jan-14-2019 1:58 AM

Another thing regarding Scotts prequels.I believe it's been noted that they at times seem to disregard everything but ALIEN,including Aliens.

Nothing the God of biomechanics wouldn't let you in heaven for 

BigDave

Jan-14-2019 7:44 AM

Indeed that seems to be a issue with any sequel to some Movie Franchises, there is not a lot of thought concerning In-Continuity.... i would say with TERMINATOR they have Time-Travel to get around such things, because with Time-Travel Events of the Past/Future can be changed...

Thank Goodness we dont have Time-Travel in the Alien Franchise.

The Star Wars Franchise is not so bad in respects to In-Continuity as they do link up to each other EP1-9 but its a case of how often can they continue the same Saga!  20 years, 30 years time could they consider a Re-boot!

Star Wars had tried something different with a Parallel Story that Connects to the First Movie with Rogue One which i think was a Good Movie and i think its better than the Prequels and the New Trilogy so Far.... ALIEN could do with something similar.

Han-Solo is a different Kettle of Fish all together, but Disney and a bit Goofy... but i think a Lesson should be Learned here for ALIEN....  if we went to do a Alien Prequel that was about a Younger Ripley.. we could be setting ourselves up for the same kind of Disappointment...  to be fair Han-Solo could have been better if the Character and some other elements were more Faithful to the Original.  But i guess in defense how many people change compared to when they was younger, i.e in there early 20's compared to early 40's.

Amanda Ripley was a interesting thing to explore... but i do think if this Saga is Milked it could end up not being as important...  We needed a Isolation Sequel... as either a Game, Movie or 6 Series TV Show... but then if we have too much Amanda Ripley, you risk Diluting her...

So i think they have to think of other things and NOT have to connect to Ripley just because its what some Fans expect... i mean RS even hinted the Prequels could connect to Ripley Some How!   Which got Fans wondering is Daniels Ripleys Mother?

But this would not FIT within the Given Time-Line and Background for Ellen Ripley but who knows what they could change... i think RS meant it as in Spiritually as in we would be seeing Daniels being shaped to be a NEW Ripley... which she clearly is NOT.

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

BigDave

Jan-14-2019 7:57 AM

"Another thing regarding Scotts prequels.I believe it's been noted that they at times seem to disregard everything but ALIEN,including Aliens."

Good Point to bring up..... and you could be CORRECT!

Who knows what Vision RS would have had if he was able to had made ALIEN 2 and ALIEN 3....  i doubt it would have been too similar to Camerons Aliens..

Ridley Scotts sequels open some In-Continuity within the Franchise.... such as WHY bother with Hadleys Hope when there is LV-223, and now Planet 4 and potentially Origae-6 as far as where to obtain Xenomorphs or the Tools/Knowledge required to Create One!

What becomes of these places by the time of ALIENS that means the Company only pursue the Xenomorph via Ripley and her Queen Chest Buster/DNA!

We then have the ENGINEERS.. why do we not see or reference them in the Franchise after ALIEN? and with the Prequels... we have to ask WHERE have all the Engineers Gone?

Once other Engineers FAR FAR away detect Mankind is around and can Travel the Stars... depending HOW Many/Few Engineers remain, should they surely NOT want to come back to our Solar System and ERADICATE US?

Ridley Scott talked about his Plans for WAR OF THE WORLDS...  regarding what happens when Engineers Return and other stuff.... well such a PLOT would surely Cause Continuity Problems with the Franchise!

NOT IF ALIENS on wards are Ignored!

Is there any Evidence this may have been his Plan?  Well in the Run Up to Covenant and Discussing Sequels....  Ridley Scott did hint about bringing Ripley Back and mentioned you could DE-AGE her....  WHY would we need to do that, WHY bring back a Ripley who would appear like she did in ALIEN or ALIENS... or did he mean a Ripley before ALIEN?

Or as i have mentioned before on here... is this  CLUE that RS would have liked to have Ret-conned ALIENS like Blomkamp was going to do with ALIEN 3?

If indeed Ridley Scott had planed to make it his Prequels, ALIEN and then continue after Alien with his own ideas, then NOTHING in the Prequels would cause any In-Continuity with the Future after ALIEN and certainly regarding Ridley Scotts  planned WAR OF THE WORLDS

So maybe his Plan was to IGNORE the Franchise after ALIEN?

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

ninXeno426

Jan-14-2019 12:02 PM

It seems that way.Despite what some think,Ridley does like Aliens,he and James Cameron planned on making Alien 5 after all.They both walked from the project after Fox decided to pursue AVP,James cut all ties to Alien after that.Ironically James Cameron turned out to be a fan of AVP,ranking it third after Alien and Aliens.Ridley on the other hand has never seen AVP.

That being said,Ridley is certainly more concerned with fulfilling his vision than franchise continuity.A good example is who exactly is Michael Bishop Weyland from Alien 3 then?It seems Peter Weyland had no heirs with the exception of Meredith Vickers,and she didn't seem to have any children.It's safe to say at the very least Ridley isn't counting Alien 3.

Nothing the God of biomechanics wouldn't let you in heaven for 

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