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Alien: Covenant

Alien: Covenant - Prometheus sequel

The Alien: Covenant, Alien: Awakening & Prometheus Movie Community

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Posted Jan-12-2018 6:30 AM

I woke up today and remembered that there is an entire untold story in the ten years between the two movies....Will we ever get to see this story?! I would be satisfied with just concept renderings, something like an extended "the crossing" which I find to be almost better than the entirety of Covenant...There are so many unexplored story lines in the Alien Universe, will the series ever get back on track? Why are we again waiting years and years in between films? The in between time only seems to pollute the vision for this prequel eres at least. We were waiting for a Prometheus 2 for hat 6 years? Then we get something on a whole different direction with the paper thin Covenant. Now we're waiting for a Covenant 2, and already there are cancelation, story changes, and various other forms of threatening positions. What happened to having a 6 movie story already laid out? I just dont understand all this back and forth, I wish they would just stick to what Prometheus started. I wabt a work of art Alien film. One that makes sense and explores the themes and concepts it brings up or nods to. RS and the movie studio have a lot to work with in the Alien Universe, I hope they can realize that for the next one...Any thoughts Alien Covenant.com? Does anyone get what I'm saying? I want a movie that looks, sounds, and feels like that moment in the Covenant trailer where we see Davids crashed ship, I feel like that few seconds in the trailer was more "Alien-y" than all of Covenant. Anybody else feel this way?

23 Responses to Between Prometheus and Covenant

Svanya

Jan-12-2018 5:32 PM

That's what the next movie is supposed to be about, or so I thought, the whole story of what David was up to after the crash. It was to be called Alien:Awakening. Alien: Awakening’ May Be the Next Film in Ridley Scott’s Franchise

Pred-Alien2011

Jan-14-2018 12:09 AM

That's exactly what I've been saying. I love Aliens movies and we have to wait forever for sequels to come out just to feel lost like well what happened to this and what happened to that? Why can't they pick up where Prometheus ended and tell that story. That's the one I'm waiting for. And why did they create us just to try and destroy us later? I mean I still love the movies and I will watch them regardless but I'm left wanting. 

MonsterZero

Jan-14-2018 7:30 AM

I'd like Disney to hire writers to fill the gaps. Release new Alien novels every month. Fan Fiction can only go so far... And instead of spending 100 million on a new movie..spend 10 million and create their own Alien verse.  Use it on conventions. AlienFeast2018.....Planet4 novel series. Some audio dramas.

They really need to GROW the franchise. Every year we are losing tens of thousand of Alien fans from death. Where are the new fans coming from!? ( Releasing 6 movies in 40 years doesn't help. ) James Bond has 26 movies in 55 years...Alien should have more than 6.

Star Trek is facing the same problem...Fan base is getting old and dying....then CBS puts it behind a paywall!?!? crazy.

 

 

Critters5

Jan-14-2018 8:46 AM

Monsterzero, that's a great point. 

BigDave

Jan-14-2018 3:50 PM

Welcome... and indeed these are interesting things to ponder.

First we have to wonder what is meant by Alien Awakening as Svanya pointed out this first slipped in a Interview RS had done, where he did mention the Order was Prometheus, Awakening then Covenant. But we have to bare in mind RS is prone to mistakes, and can get misquoted by taking what he said as Literal and not paying attention to any mistakes.

Here is a GOOD example.

"So we've reinvented the idea of Alien, I think, which is that Covenant gets us a step closer to who and why was this thing designed to make human beings. And if you think it's them [the Engineers], you're dead wrong."

Some at Face Value thought this means we would find out why/who made Human beings, and the if you think it was them (Engineers) your wrong... so that means ENGINEERS did not create Humans?  Only if we look in context to what AC was about that it makes sense..  Thus i feel RS meant this.

"So we've reinvented the idea of Alien, I think, which is that Covenant gets us a step closer to who and why was this thing designed to KILL human beings. And if you think it's them [the Engineers], you're dead wrong."

By swapping Make with KILL then we can see this comment clearly fits the AC Plot, were we find out who/why this thing (Xenomorph) was created to Kill Humans, and while we assume Engineers, Alien Covenant throws the Curve-ball its DAVID

So again when RS mentioned

"There will be another one before we kind of literally and logically, clockwise, back into the rear back head of [the original] ‘Alien,'” Scott said, making sense of where in the “Alien” world the films are placed. “It will go ‘Prometheus,’ ‘Awakening,’ ‘Covenant’ … fairly integral where this colonization ship is on the way.”

Knowing what AC had laid down... which is David Created the Proto-Xenomorph, and we are going Clockwise, which means A-Z, 1-10 as in a sequel, that leads closer to ALIEN with a sequel that leads closer still.  "fairly integral where this colonization ship is on the way.”  thus meaning the Ship at the end of AC is on its way to FILL-IN the Plot Device that leads us to ALIEN that being David, his Face Huggers and Thousands of Viable Hosts.

Then it could be that RS actually means Prometheus, Covenant and Awakening.

RS had mentioned in other interviews about the next one being Awakening, but then he also said this was Blomkamps Title for Alien 5 and so while Awakening is the name of the Next Movie, it does not 100% mean that it will Cronologically be set after Alien Covenant, but when i look at the comments RS makes regarding the sequel and where its going next and his "literally and logically, clockwise, back into the rear back head of ALIEN" comment all point to the next movie being what happens to David, the Covenant the Colonist and if they GO to Origae-6

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

BigDave

Jan-14-2018 4:16 PM

"What happened to having a 6 movie story already laid out?"

Upon completion of Alien Covenant, RS was refering to the potential for another 6 movies, or 6 total, its where he feels his ideas and plans could take it, we dont know what he meant by 6 movies.  I doubt it would be 6 Movies directly set leading to ALIEN, that would be silly.  Its likely 3 Prequels after Prometheus to loosely connect to ALIEN or literally, and then the other 3 could be expanded stories that either take us away from ALIEN (explore Engineers) or that are set after ALIEN or indeed Parallel to ALIEN but will not be Xenomorph movies.. (the latter 3)

This was as far as RS feeling it could expand more than the required Prequels, and regarding Prequels RS had said that Alien Covenant will need ONE Maybe TWO Sequels before we get to ALIEN

"Why are we again waiting years and years in between films?"

It appears that when working on AC they had rough ideas how it would connect to ALIEN as far as sequels, and the Plan was to make the Prequels more closer BACK-TO-BACK and so at the time of AC release they actually had a nearly finished ready to go SEQUEL and it appeared the plans would have been for a Summer 2018 shooting, and April 2019 Release.  No doubt the 3rd and maybe FINAL Prequel in the NEW Alien Prequels. (set after Prometheus) would likely had been planned for release by say 2021-2022 for sure.

The Disappointing BOX Office for Alien Covenant and mixed Reception, had made FOX have to consider what went wrong and take a TIME-OUT than Plow Head On into a SEQUEL i would safely ASSUME if Alien Covenant made $350-400M World Wide and had less Criticism (or same complaints but made $400M+) then the Sequel could well be under way as of NOW as far as Production.  Pending the Disney Take Over....    

As of NOW any sequel is in a state of Limbo... Pending if Disney are keen and in any rush to make a Alien Covenant Sequel, and they would also have to consider WHY did Alien Covenant Disappoint? I cant see Disney rushing into Producing a Sequel or ANY other ALIEN movie unless they feel it would make a 300%+  Return on its Budget.

"there is an entire untold story in the ten years between the two movies....Will we ever get to see this story?"

Unfortunately the answer will be NO as far as Movie, i think a Novel would be handy, or a Comic Book Series but who knows.  I think it may be kept a Mystery, as they had laid down a lot of clues between The Crossing, and Alien Covenant and the Viral Videos such as the Advent and Davids Notes.  while we can paint a picture we cant get a 100% Spoon Fed A-Z of what happened, there is a bit of ambiguity but a lot of clues that send us down a certain Path... i can give my TWO CENTS if you like, i think its accurate and detailed and should be somewhat like what must have happened but with a few areas that i would have to propose a few alternatives due to the ambiguity.

"will the series ever get back on track?"

Hopefully but its a case of too many cooks in the kitchen and NO set A-Z Plan thats kept to, its pretty much like a Game of Make it up as you go along, where you started with a IDEA, pass it on and someone comes in and changed its and adds to it but often disregards what was set down prior.  Its a mess if i am honest.... but i think it NEEDS closure, i would hate for it to be left as it is, and then 10-15 years we get a Re-boot of the Prequels, that disregard the TWO we already have.

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

BigDave

Jan-14-2018 4:49 PM

The ALIEN Franchise has Potential, as Monster-Zero said... but potential maybe only as far as LOW-Budget adaptions, Disney will know they can market the Franchise as far as Merchandise, Comics, Games and Toys etc....   Its a case of would they feel doing Movies with $80-150M Budgets be a worthwhile investment?

I know a number of people would have wanted to pick up from Prometheus, but we have to try and think what would a Prometheus 2 had been?

We have to ask the following Questions when setting up a Sequel.

1) Does the Company send a Mission to LV-223 and would a Prometheus sequel cover this Plot, either fully or in part/set up it for a 3rd movie?

2) Does David take Dr Shaw to the location where the Engineer in Prometheus had referred to how we (Mankind) would call it Paradise? Or does David go somewhere else?

3) If David and Dr Shaw head to Paradise, would they find a World that is in a state of Destruction, or a World that has a thriving Civilization and so what state is Paradise in?

4) Are there beings on this World, and if so are they Benevolent/Malevolent and how would they feel about David and Dr Shaw?

5) Are these beings aware of LV-223, Mankinds creation and interaction with the Engineers and our intended Destruction?  If so how much are they aware and what do they feel regarding these?

6) Would these beings welcome David and Dr Shaw, and give Shaw her Answers?   Would these Answers be pleasing to Dr Shaw or Horrific?

7) Following Interaction of Dr Shaw/David and the Engineers, (or what ever beings) and what goes down, how do the Engineers/beings respond and what plans would they now have?  And how would Dr Shaw/David respond depending on what Dr Shaw finds out and how they are received and the knowledge of where Mankind Technologically are now?

8) Would we see a lot of time devoted to Dr Shaw and David on their Voyage towards Paradise?

9) Would the events of finding Paradise or what David/Shaw do, reveal any more about the Black Goo, the Xenomorph or LV-223?

10) Would we require any length of time with Flash Backs to Engineers and would they be on Paradise, Earth or LV-223 or maybe each?

These i feel are the 10 Big Questions that Set up a Sequel, and depending on the answers to these, sets up the way the next Questions are answered...  I.E  the Answer to Question 3 effects Question 4, the answer to Question 4 effects Question 5 etc etc.

And you will see its a Pretty Hard Task to do any justice...

Ridley Scott however kindly during the years between Prometheus and Alien Covenant, he had basically told us what was likely...

Prior to the Sequel Plans, he mentions that he DID-NOT want to meet GOD in the First Movie, in regards to the removal of the Elders Scene, and he referred to that act as BENEVOLENT but referred to the Engineers as FALLEN ANGELS and Nasty/Aggressive $"£%^$

Then months latter he said they (Dr Shaw and David) are off to the Home-world of the Engineers, they do find beings, these beings are not GODS, not in the Traditional Sense, they are also Far from Benevolent.... but David is bringing HELL with him.

Thats a Big Clue right there.... he also then mentions, the Engineers are Fallen Angels, the Idea would follow themes from John Milton's Paradise Lost and Dr Shaw would be off to get her answers but the Paradise she hopes to find will be a Connotation of a Dark/Dangerous World.

At the time just prior and when Alien Paradise Lost was announced (month of so before Alien Covenant Name Change) Ridley Scott had mentioned that David and Dr Shaw are off to the Engineers Home-world but they will discover a Evolving Organism that they made (we can assume Engineers).  He then also mentioned that in Paradise Lost the Fallen Angels seemed like they had the most FUN in that Poem....   He then also mentions you have ONE GUY who is Handsome goes to all the Parties, gets all the Girls, while you have another who is NOT as Handsome and stays at home being boring.

Finally RS just prior to Alien Covenant Announcement, says that if the Engineers are the Forerunners to Mankind, then what makes it possible for Worlds to be able to allow for that (Create Life on) were is the BIG GUY and then he mentions about the Big Bang, was it a Accident?  then he says even Stephen Hawking Questions whether the Big Bang was some Natural, Accidental Event.

So it appears things changed over time, a lot in reaction to Prometheus and it not answering the Xenomorph Origins, it never had Xenomorphs or similar, and that going for a movie that steers further from Alien/Xenomorph and follows Dr Shaw and her Quest for Answers with these beings they find.. was something maybe most fans would not be fond of.... HENCE Dan Harper/John Logan re-writing the Plans that gave us ALIEN COVENANT and basically BY-PASSING what ever Prometheus 2 would have been.

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

LV226

Jan-15-2018 7:48 AM

Thanks @BigDave I'm confused as to why Covenant box office was such a derailer for the series. The movie did make a profit did it not? Maybe I'm just naive to the industry but it all this uncertainty about whether they SHOULD make another one just doesnt make sense to me when they didnt lose money, maybe just didn't make as much as they wanted... I guess they think then the next one would lose them money but still just seems preemptive. 

Yeah I remember all that talk from way back about the engineers abilities to change climate and such and how those abilities or technologies could explain away alot of the events that transpire in the Alien Universe. Definitely lost in RS's rantings... His quotes, some of the more infuriating ones you quoted @Bigdave, are always so nonsensical it makes me think he does it on purpose? Or is he just confused, it seems like a paradox to me that the man with the supposed keys to the universe, and the grand plan, can't give a basic and clear idea what he's got in mind, must be part of the game you have to play to keep people interested, but for fans like us It really messes with your head! :)

@bigdave, yeah I would love to hear what you believe transpired in those years! Paint me a picture so I can pretend they made prometheus 2. I'm dying to have "answers" to those questions you listed.

The way I see it, the story being told here is that we are a version of many humanoid beings the engineers seeded across the galaxy as part of some spiritual and religious belief they have about they're place in the universe. I love the hierarchy being presented with this story, the wolves, the sheep, etc.  

Not sure RS really has three additional stories to tell after the prequel trilogy, seeing as its been like pulling teeth with him just getting these initial three out... I wish there was someone at the movie studio that could convince him to loosen his creative control when it comes to story. I think we could see a consistantly good set of movies if he were just responsible for visuals. Get someone in there that will tell a better story, adn then bring RS in to make it look awesome.

LV226

Jan-15-2018 7:51 AM

@Svanya Yeah exactly articles like this! Ho many Prometheus 2/Covenant plots have been written and scrapped at this point?

LV226

Jan-15-2018 7:56 AM

@MonsterZero I never thought of it that way. 


Thoughts_Dreams

Jan-15-2018 7:56 AM

Leave that to some comic that those that really want to know what happened can read. I do not really care what went down between David and Shaw during that time. My attitude to this is like move on.

"I wish there was someone at the movie studio that could convince him to loosen his creative control when it comes to story."

Exactly this, otherwise it will be even more about David, which sucks.

LV226

Jan-15-2018 8:14 AM

@Thoughts_Dreams Yeah! a book a comic whatever anything! I mean it just starts to look like a movie made for one (RS) at a certain point. Like how is it that an Alien Homeworld for example is not an interesting avenue to explore? Why cant they open an Alien film with no dialogue just beautiful shots of Xeno's on a planet they're taken over and then Engineers flying in and starting over or something. I think that would be pretty awesome and world building. You could then take it from there, adding little bits of information within a horror typical people in space in trouble story would be full bodied and engaging to more people.

I like mystery but they insert mystery into lame stuff! TBH I think it's the horror Jump scare bullshit that they cant get away from. The scene in Covenant when Rosenthal gets attacked...I mean the whole thing there with her head and the obvious set up and then the jump scare...I mean did that need to be in the movie but not an explanation to what Engineers are? Or what happened to the Deacon and the Weyland trip in general from the company's perspective? Or the City they found on an alien planets in a distant system that looks remarkably like ancient earth civilizations!? That wasn't something they felt needed to be in the movie? I know I sound like i hate the movie, I don't, but I can't hide my disappointment and at least we got a movie...

BigDave

Jan-15-2018 8:20 AM

I think Alien Covenant was a real Disappointment...

I think FOX certainly expected the movie to have done better, they looked at what some fans had to say about Prometheus, decided that following Dr Shaw and David and interacting with the Engineers may not be the movie General Fans would like, and doing this kind of movie would be hard to do, because of HOW we address those 10 Questions i posed.

FOX had taken on-board how Prometheus was not very Alieny, and as a Prequel it was not giving enough clues to the Xenomorph Origin, and maybe lacked any Alien Monsters killing Humans, which the Franchise was always based on, which was the Peril of Humans vs Aliens, this did not mean we had to see Xenomorphs, its just Prometheus maybe did not please all because the only Threat Humanity Faced was the WHAT IF the Black Goo got to Earth, and the Crew was mainly just Maimed by a Zombie FIFIELD and a Angry ENGINEER  and so Milburns Hammerpede Encounter did not feel as rewarding or interesting as a Face Hugger Attack, because there was no Follow Up/Pay Off.   And Dr Shaw's C-Section was just not quite as effective as a Chest Buster (but then how can you make Chest Busting effective once its been done over and over).

I think the Problem AC had was..

*Prometheus fans wanted to see where RS was going with the Engineers and their whole part in the Franchise and finding out what the Black Goo is about and LV-223. And explore the Philosophical/Creation themes.

*Alien Fans felt they would like to know more about HOW this Black Goo would link to the Xenomorph and maybe hopping that AC would bring back some of that Horror and Haunted House Feel of ALIEN

*Aliens Fans, felt the movie would bring back Xenomorph and maybe hint at the creation, but also bring in some Action that Prometheus lacked, and leave them pondering what Created/Laid those Eggs in the Trailer.

Alien Covenant was Marketing very Heavy, RS and FOX pushed that the movie would Scare People, would introduce the Xenomorph and something different (Neomorphs) so that got the Alien and Aliens fans interested and expecting something... but RS also mentioned about David/AI and Engineers so this may have concerned some Fans who was not keen on Prometheus, and it may have given some hope to those Prometheus fans who with the ALIEN Prefix were concerned this would be steering away from Prometheus.

The movie got Over-Hyped and Over Marketed, i mean look at the ONE Poster that had NOTHING to do with the Movie.

so the Movie Release Came, and i think some Fans were a bit apprehensive...  But the WHOLE Release Schedule for AC was Flawed and so it did quite WELL on Premier Weekend etc... but the movie was not released State Side until far to long after it made its World Wide Premier... by the time the USA Domestic Box Office was to get to see it,  the reports and reviews came in, which showed that Fans felt the movie was NOT what they was expecting due to the Marketing for the Movie.

This may have affected some USA Fans from going to see the Movie, but it still had a OK response, but then after the USA Premier, then the movie had more Criticism and this passed on and on and i feel just turned a lot of people off going to see the Movie.  I also feel AC lacked that Repeat Viewing for many Fans.

Thats what i feel had happened with Alien Covenant...  It simply could not Please Every Kind of Fan... but it Marketed itself to being able to Please Every Fan, and to a degree it tried to by giving each kind of Fan a little of what they hoped but no where near enough to please them and certainly not as much as the Build Up and Marketing had done.

The David Creates the Xenomorph and some of his Character Quirks certainly seem to be something that had disappointed and divided most Fans, be it Alien Fans, Aliens Fans or Prometheus.

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

BigDave

Jan-15-2018 8:41 AM

"I mean did that need to be in the movie but not an explanation to what Engineers are? Or what happened to the Deacon and the Weyland trip in general from the company's perspective? Or the City they found on an alien planets in a distant system that looks remarkably like ancient earth civilizations!?"

These are all interesting things that fans of Prometheus were looking to find out, but these things did not directly give us the Xenomorph Origin, or bring Xenomorphs back in some kind of Horror/Action kind of way that a Alien/Alien 3 and Aliens/Alien R had done....  It appeared FOX felt bringing the Xenomorph back and tying it literally towards Alien in a Modern Time-Frame was the way to go.

"what happened to the Deacon"

We may never know... the Comics Fire and Stone basically showed it had gone to the Temple/Cave Complex and simply Merged with the Wall like the Mural and became part of the Mountain and showed the Outpost/Mound was actually living...  erm!

The Deacon for all intensive Purposes was a link to the Xenomorph, it was basically "you know these Engineers are the Space Jockey, and that stuff they are experimenting/creating in those URNS under certain series of Events Creates a Human/Xeno Hybrid Face Huger, that created a Human/Xeno type Chest Buster" thus it was to show us that the Xenomorph was connected to the LV-223 Outpost and those Eggs on the Derelict are a result connected to this place either prior to the Outbreak or after.  So the DEACON was a Plot Device.

"Weyland trip in general from the company's perspective"

This again is a Big Question, one i thought would be addressed or set up for future, what becomes of Weyland Company with its TWO main CEO's missing?  When/Why does the Rival Yutani Company Merge and then why would NO-ONE investigate the Prometheus Mission?  We have to wonder if anything had been done, if not then certainly after Davids Olive Branch (Advent Viral) to the Company we then have to wonder if they would explore LV-223 and i am sure the Companies Agenda regarding the Xenomorph will become more clear down the line (if we ever get to see any sequels).

"looks remarkably like ancient earth civilizations!?"

This is a interesting one, and one that some fans felt disappointed by... i think many fans maybe felt we should see a Truly HR Giger Atheistic.   There is so much with the Engineers that its very open to where/when and how that HR Giger Bio-Mechanical Aesthetic comes about..  The Elders Scene in Prometheus those Engineers lacked it, the Pebble Ship lacked it.   Ancient Mankind had lacked any Bio-Mechanical Architecture, even as far as Thousands of Years ago.

So did those Engineers only achieve this Technology way after the Sacrificial Scene, did they choose to not Share this with Mankind?

Planet 4 we see is like Ancient Civilization there is Technology in Places but only Places where it seems necessary, it appears these beings LIVE by the Ancient Rituals and Codes that the Sacrificial Engineers Scene Reflected.   They had some Technology, but mainly for Lighting and Heating and so they chose to live a almost AMISH people Life, by that they Shun Technology for the most part.

We have to ask WHY, is it because those above them those who lay the Rules for their Civilization Forbid it,  was there a event where they decided to Shun Technology and Revert back to a Ancient Ways.  Yet we still see they have a Hanger for Engineer Juggernauts, they even welcome the Ships back and so there is a whole Explanation here...   ONE that i think many fans of Prometheus would like to have Answered at some point...  One where i FEEL the clues are there however.

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

Thoughts_Dreams

Jan-15-2018 9:01 AM

LV226:

I am not sure if one shall explain everything about the Xeno, not knowing is a part of what is interesting. The thing is what do we need to know and why? When you explain too much then it is not interesting anymore.

Do you mean the floating head? I thought that was lame.

Nah, let the deacon be it seemed that it was there to give some Xeno connection.

That is totally fine, AC is just OK but nothing special. A movie does not work when the characters are underdeveloped which is my biggest problem with it and that goes for Prometheus also.

Thoughts_Dreams

Jan-15-2018 9:32 AM

Big Dave

Yeah, unfortunately it wasn't that good. About lacking any aliens if they mean Xenos then that was wrong at least I was not disappointed by the lack of Xenos. Having new monsters in Prometheus was kind of interesting.

I would have liked if they continued the Engineers thing in AC, I would rather have watched that than a movie about a mad robot.

Yeah I did not like the zombie, I would rather have the Xeno version. The Hammerpede was nasty, it is just too bad that Milburn was such an idiot so it was difficult to feel sorry for him when he died. Shaw's c-section scene was nasty so that worked for me at least.

The black goo was and is interesting, and yes it had too little action in it. I remember that flute scene more than the action scenes because it made me tired towards the end not because of the themes or what they were talking about.

More action scenes I the next one please. It was not my main problem with Covenant but I hope that it will not be as slow (for example flute scene or Oram and Daniels talking by the fire).

Perhaps we can have more about the Neomorph in the next movie. One thing that the prequels have done right is that they have new monsters.

"I also feel AC lacked that Repeat Viewing for many Fans."

If you call it alien and put most of the focus on androids when people connect that to Xenos then I guess that is what you will get. The movie should have been called Alien: David, just a little honesty you know.

"The David Creates the Xenomorph…"

Yeah, screw that

BigDave

Jan-15-2018 3:19 PM

It is a shame because i felt that if someone had taken Lindeloffs Paradise, and tried to add a bit of Spaights Alien Engineers and then tried to Tidy them up to merge together, we could have had that Prequel movie that would have given the Alien Fanbase something to Chew on, and more clues, while a Prometheus 2 could have then attempted to take it some place else, and then in a 3rd movie introduce us to back to more Xenomorphy Alieny Action.

I think its a shame that for me Alien Covenant is not a movie i can go back to watching over and over, Prometheus was, Alien is too, Aliens not so much since i turned 35 it does not appeal as much as it used to do.

I think they have a lot to repair if they want to get the Franchise back on track, i think they need to Stick to a Plan and keep to it, even if it upsets some Fans you cant please them all.

Regarding the Time between Prometheus and Alien Covenant, there is a lot of Back Ground stuff that we thought we would have found out more about, such as the Company Merger etc but i think they just Bi-Passed it because it was not really necessary at this point to the Plot... but as Alien Covenant draws closer to Alien, then things like the Company and Agenda would come to light more.

I think some would have liked to see what happened as far as David and Dr Shaw too, but the Crossing and Alien Covenant gave us a lot of clues...   a Super Nutshell Version without much Detail is as Follows.

*After Prometheus, Dr Shaw knew she would need David (or so David has her believe) in order to get off LV-223 and to the Engineers Homeworld for her Answers.  While she would be very cautious regarding David, she would eventually have to Repair him, and David would know this and he would have to try and Persuade her...   It appears Months had passed before She Finally Repaired David, in which Time a Bond had Formed (but could this be David just letting Dr Shaw feel there is one for his own gain?).

*David puts Dr Shaw into Cryo-sleep, he informs the reason is that he Does-Not know how long the Journey would take... This has to be a Lie, and with Dr Shaw in Cryo-sleep David has freedom to carry out what ever he wishes.  So he has some knowledge of the Engineers, he has some knowledge of their intentions towards Mankind and he has to then weigh up the likely hood of being accepted by these beings they may find on Paradise/Planet 4

*David arrives at Planet 4, he realizes at some point maybe prior the place may be inhabited, he has some idea of their Culture and has weighed up the likely hood of what would become of himself and Dr Shaw once they had interacted with the Engineers.  David would not want to take any risks, he does not want to have his head torn off, he is free and wishes to explore and be free.  He also may genuinely have a bit of affection for Dr Shaw and would not want to see her Harmed.

So he Bombards the Engineers...  i would assume without Dr Shaw even having knowledge.

*During the Bombardment, Davids Juggernaught likely gets loose but it crashes into the Mountains, on top of a Stream of Running Water that rushes down the Mountain Range to the Valley below.  It is likely after this at some point he awakens Dr Shaw, and informs her of what happened, either by Accident or that it happened after the Engineers tried to attack the Ship, or maybe David could tell her he found out their intentions and he had no Choice to do so to Protect her. (and Mankind).

*David would confine Dr Shaw to the Juggernaught, explaining the Environment is Hostile and Contaminated, but he will try and find her clean Water and Food, and through the Ruins of the Engineers City he could maybe get her Answers.

*The Bombardment likely did not kill all the Engineers, some would have made it to that Cathedral as a Sanctuary, mainly Women and Children.  With the Outside indeed contaminated, its only a matter of time with limited resources that those Engineers in Shelter would start to get weak from Dehydration or Starvation.   Maybe some wondered to the outside got infected and this unleashed death onto them, but at some point there numbers would be diminished they would be exhausted and become RIPE PICKINGS for David to Experiment. 

*Overtime David began Experimenting on Various Life Forms, including Engineers that were no doubt inside the Cathedral at the time of the Bombardment.  While David also documented the areas surviving and mutated Wildlife and Plant Life etc.

*At some point Dr Shaw discovers what David had been doing, maybe David offers a explanation to why,  maybe David even shows MORE-THAN Platonic Love and either or both of these Revelations causes her to Try and Escape and Attempts to Set off the Juggernaut, but to No Avail... before David captures her, and brings her to the Cathedral, where she may be Captive.  Down the Line David realizes Dr Shaw wishes to get away from him, and is not interested in Davids plans, or ideas (maybe he attempts to offer a Olive Branch to Bear Children or be Evolved) and she rejects this and him and grows to Hate David and want to get away...  

So David has no choice, and she is either killed accidentally or on purpose, or becomes ill/infected and David then Proceeds to use her to Forward his Experiments.

*Once David had achieved his Masterpiece, he then uses a recording from the Juggernaught to Broadcast a Signal to Attract any near by Human Ships in the Future.

THIS ^^ is what i think had transpired in those 10 years, and if we ever had a Movie then i feel it would cover all of this or be close to it....  Yes there could be a few things extra or different, like who knows if David discovered a FEW surviving Engineers and attempted to make a Covenant with them which he breaks.

Maybe the Juggernaught does not crash on the Mountain but lands or crashes some place else, Dr Shaw is informed about the Environment and Infection and so has to stay on the Ship, but at some point she maybe ventures out and discovers Davids Lies, and Plans and attempts to take off with the Juggernaught that sends it crashing into the Mountain.

The Neomorph Spores are likely the results of UN-Activated Urns falling from the Crashed Juggernaught (be it after the Bombardment or a latter date) where the Black Goo Liquid seeps into the Stream that runs down the Mountain and infects Mold/Fungi that grows from near areas of stagnate Water.

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

LV226

Jan-15-2018 6:43 PM

Thanks for the timeline BigDave! That sounds about right with what we were given. I like our conlusions about certain aspects like how Daid had live Engineer specimans to experiment with. Even though your timeline makes sense to me, it still has mystery and more questions which goes to show it wouldnt have been a bad avenue to take the prequels. Doesn't it seem like they could have made any other movie but Covenent and still made the same third movie connecting to original? I guess it doesnt matter Covenant kinda sucks, they'll just have to make up for it in the third. Exactly because it didn't go deeper or answer many questions, We can just take it for what it is....

LV226

Jan-15-2018 6:47 PM

@thoughts_dreams I thought the Neomorphs were scary and interesting, although certain times not rendered very well. There is a stark difference between the awesome shot of it bent over Rosenthal and a lot of the other adult Neomorph shots. Do you think David can talk to it, or did it not kill him simply because he was not organic?

LV226

Jan-15-2018 6:47 PM

@thoughts_dreams I thought the Neomorphs were scary and interesting, although certain times not rendered very well. There is a stark difference between the awesome shot of it bent over Rosenthal and a lot of the other adult Neomorph shots. Do you think David can talk to it, or did it not kill him simply because he was not organic?

BigDave

Jan-16-2018 9:11 AM

"which goes to show it wouldnt have been a bad avenue to take the prequels."

I think this in essence was part of the Problem when working on a sequel,  what kind of movie would it be to have say the first act mainly be David and Shaw and so like a extended The Crossing Prologue if we had say 25 minutes of this or more, it would be ok...  But then when they arrive at Planet 4 and David Destroys the Engineers, the movie would revolve again around David and Shaw interacting, then maybe David experimenting on Engineers... we have to wonder, are these Engineers he finds in very good condition, because surely those Charred Engineers would be no use.

So how does David handle a interaction with Engineers? Surely if there are a number of them, they could destroy David with ease, so there has to be a few and in very weak condition.. Do we get them pleading with David?  Does David ask Questions and demand Answers.   So i think yes a few scenes of David talking to a few frail, emaciated Engineers and then feel their pain as David kills them and experiments on them could be interesting.

But how much of a movie would these scenes take up?

To then return to more scenes between David and Shaw, that conclude with the moment things turn sour and Dr Shaw is in fear of David and attempts to escape.

The movie would for the most part be about David and Shaw, and what a hand-full of Engineers, with subtitles at best....     Yes we could have some Flash backs of Engineers in History, and maybe have some Flash Backs between David and Weyland.

But i am not sure this kind of movie would settle well and attract many people, so you needed to bring in some Human Elements and thus have a Sub Plot, where we go back and forth between David/Shaw and Planet 4, and then some Humans preparing for a mission that arrives where David is or will be heading.

So its kind of hard to do...

The Covenant Sequel has left itself open to the same Problem, surely we cant have a large portion of the movie devoted to David interacting with Daniels and Tennessee (not with how Daniels knows about David) and surely just seeing David awaken Colonist a few at a time, interact a little but then Experiment on them...   This would kind of be similar to what Transpired between Prometheus and Alien Covenant, only with Daniels instead of Dr Shaw,  and a few Colonist at a time instead of a few unhealthy surviving Engineers.

Its going to be interesting to see how they would have tackled any sequel...

I guess even if DISNEY decide to not go ahead with the Planned Sequel, and at a latter date release a movie set after these events...   we can only HOPE Disney will get someone like ADF to take the Drafts that Logan has been working on as far as the Alien Covenant Sequel and Put these Drafts into a Novel so we can at least DISCOVER what happens next.

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

BigDave

Jan-16-2018 9:20 AM

Regarding the Neomorphs, its the same as the Xenomorphs, some CGI shots looked decent, others just looked very disappointing... its a bit like THE THING 2011 some of the CGI was acceptable, some of it was Poor, i do think AC had better CGI though, but far from Blockbuster Quality.

Regarding the Neomorph's and David, who knows what the explanations could be, the most logical one has to be that David is not Organic and so the Neomorphs and Xenomorphs have no interest in him.

The other explanation in addition to this is maybe David has something he can do that subdues them, or prevents them from harming him.    some had said in some rumors prior to AC that David CONTROLS the Xenomorphs and Neomorphs with a FLUTE this is very the Pied Piper

And we dont see any of this at all in the movie, but still i think having the Organisms being Perceptive or even intimidated by certain sounds could work.... it would certainly be better than revealing David has a Telepathic Link or the Black Goo and Experiments had been Programed to Serve him.

You see David has a lot of Experiments, including Adult Organisms he has performed Autopsies on, and i just cant see David being able to Psychically Man Handle and Kill those Organisms.   Mind you those who worked on the Plot and Props did not give much thought to how PERFECTLY dissect Anatomically all those subjects with Laser Precision with the Tools he had available.

"the most logical one has to be that David is not Organic and so the Neomorphs and Xenomorphs have no interest in him."

Off Topic but this is something i have planned for my attempt of a Alien Covenant Sequel, that will lead to yet more Love/Loss for David (he meets Mrs Right lol) and David's Creation ultimately destroys this... but from Dr Shaws Loss David executed his attempt of Perfection, from the Planned idea i have Davids New Love Interest, becomes the route to Davids TRUE Perfection of his Creation...  And NOPE its no Daniels lol ;)

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

Thoughts_Dreams

Jan-21-2018 3:30 AM

It is interesting about Lindeloff after having watched Alien Covenant. I now have less blame on Lindelof for Prometheus's shortcomings. Sure he is not without responsibility for it but I think that Scott and Fox messed it up. Two underwhelming alien movies in a row and Scott and Fox are behind both of them, I think that it could be a part of the explanation at least.

Maybe the second movie (that became AC) could have had more of the Engineers, more Xeno clues without having Xenos and other things. It was disappointing that they just bombed the Engineers out of the picture, that suggests to me that Scott and those did not understand the criticism of Prometheus.

Nah, I will probably not watch AC again, it is just not good. This is unfortunate since there could have been some good parts there like the Engineers but they just erased it to focus on David, sigh. Even if they would have had lame human characters and much about David then at least it would have been less bad since the Engineers in themselves are interesting enough.

Yesterday I listened to some podcast and they said exactly like you do about a game plan. There is none as far as I know. Why can't they just sit down and at least get a skeletal version of what they want to achieve like:

"OK we will tell a story about this and that, the main things that we want to show is XYZ and to do that we could do bla bla bla"

I doubt that Scott has it at least, he changes ideas as often as people change underwear. For example first it was about the Engineers and then all of a sudden it was about David and now he is into the Engineers again, I wonder when he will change his mind again? This is a reason why he should not be involved with the script. People are good at different things, he should stick to building ideas for sets and that but not as far as the characters are concerned or the script in general.

Sure, they company side could be told a little but the focus should be on other things but I would rather have that if it brings interesting human characters than a story about David.

David is smart and is probably programmed for things like that so I guess that he could roughly speaking have some idea about how the travel would take. Who knows what kind of things that robots could do in the future so it is an interesting thought at least.

The goo that gets into the water sounds like it could be something of a biological (a form of life) warfare, interesting.

For some reason this reminds me of the end of AC. Do you think that David has some goo left that he can use as a threat towards the colonists like of they don't do as he wishes he will use it to what ever. Maybe he could use that to hold people hostile and then one of his creatures turn on him and kills him.

What if humans use the goo and try to attack David with it? We have not seen it this far and it is probably far-fetched but anyways. Humans can find a lot of things that they don't know about and use without any idea of what it can do. Look at how if affected people in Prometheus. One problem is that it seems to affect things in a random way which could be a result that they did not had an idea of how it would work. The idea is good but I am not sure about if it holds up if you examine it in a logical way.

Maybe the classical Xeno has been shown a lot of times (been cooked as Scott says) but there are other kinds of morphs (Deacon, Neomorph, and so on) that you can use. I hope that they will have something interesting if we get another movie and not just David as a threat because that is not very interesting or if they have David they got to combine that with something else since he alone won't be enough by far.

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