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The problem(s) with A:C are not with A:C itself, but the unique heterogeneity of the "Alien" fanbase...

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Starlogger

May-31-2017 5:37 PM

For example: "Star Wars" fans are rather homogenous---they like their space fantasy rolled into a specific universe, that is rather defined, and they are totally willing to suspend disbelief to do so. It's been fleshed out through a myriad of novels, novella, comics, and films and cartoons through the years since 1977.

"Marvel" fans are fairly homogenous as well: their universe is also rather well defined, and most of the stories have been already told in most of the comics and stories, and their fanbase is self-assured that when they go to a movie, the canon is established.

"DC" fans are (to a lesser degree) pretty homogeneous as well, much like the above.

Harry Potter and Lord of the Rings fans are similarly homogeneous as they have an established epic that set the tone(s) and capabilities of the whole series.

The "Alien" universe is rather unique in that, we really don't know what we are going to get from film to film or story to story. The "Canon" has been ever changing, and there has been no attempt at making its Universe into an "establishment" like the above examples have been smart enough to do. I'm afraid that Fox is a little late to the party in trying to reign it all in, but, I feel strongly that the expectations of the typical "Alien" fan is more different, person to person, than for the typical "star wars" (or X, or Y, or Z) fan, and that...THAT is the cause for most of the dischord from movie to movie. There will never be a universally acclaimed "Alien" movie due to these simple facts.

 

11 Responses to The problem(s) with A:C are not with A:C itself, but the unique heterogeneity of the "Alien" fanbase...

Batchpool

May-31-2017 5:52 PM

I can agree to a point. I also feel that the way Prometheus and Covenant have been made, that what is also part of the problem besides the ever changing canon, is the focus on a central role. With Prometheus it was Shaw, then she’s killed off. Is the focal point then Danials or David ? Or is the focal point something else, like the Engineers, or is it the development of the Xeno?  I think the next movie, should we get it, has a lot to resolve before throwing any more concepts in, otherwise it is going to turn into a right pigs ear of a mess. For now I think it has reached saturation point on juggling issues and concepts. I actually like both movies, but they now need solidifying before the wider audience gives up on the whole vision. The danger is that it can become too much of a niche that is not to many peoples taste.

BigDave

May-31-2017 6:08 PM

Indeed, i think every Alien Movie Split fans into groups... right from Aliens... some Alien Fans was not keen on how Cameron had taken the sequel.

And so by the time we got to AC, it had to try and please Prometheus Fans, Aliens Fans, and Alien Fans.... when ultimately he mainly pleased the casual Alien Fans who liked anything connected to seeing the Xenomorph in it... include say Alien R and AVP.

Aliens Fans seemed to take a liking to it too, well more than Alien Fans and Prometheus.

But i totally agree with your Topic ;)

Phantom Menace was disappointing, it was a bit to Comical, and people just hated on Jar Jar lol.... The Studio Listened and tried to make the next movies more Serious and Less Jar Jar... But the rest was to easy to please Fans of the Franchise.

RS/FOX attempted to listen to some Critics of Prometheus and brought in the Xenomorph, tried to make it more Horror, and tone down the Engineers and Shaw... but then not quite delivering what Xenomorph Fans was expecting... while then also producing something that did not appeal to Prometheus Fans...

End of the day a U-Turn and then trying to do a bit to please everyone, just ended up not doing enough to please almost everyone..

 

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

Im Durp

May-31-2017 6:19 PM

Can't really say I agree with the comparisons since things like Star Wars has whole sections of fans and groups based around what trilogy they enjoy with groups ranging from loving their trilogy as the greatest movie experience ever to absolute trash that could possibly be the worst movie ever.

 

Every fanbase is divisive, just part of being a big franchise.

joylitt

May-31-2017 6:28 PM

Starlogger It would take a lot of nerve to disqualify a good movie just because it is not your cup of tea. Personally, I am willing to take the ride wherever they want to take me. But when I see a space movie and I don't even feel like I'm in space, then I have a issue with that.

ScorpioStar

May-31-2017 6:33 PM

"Alien" fans don't known what they'll be when (and whenever, if we're lucky), they've grown up.

 

As simple as that - and, obviously, I'm thinking about "Star Wars" and all the fans of the said franchise who have been nourished the way they want since 1977...

 

But do dare to contradict them ("Star Wars" fans) the way Sir Ridley dared... Crying and screaming all over the place... (and, here, I mean the so called "Alien" fans).

dk

May-31-2017 6:50 PM

BigDave Yes, it seems everyone can't be pleased and there will be lovers and haters, which segues into joylitt's comment of ust going with it to a point. It seems cash is king, but I would rather go with where the writers and directors want to go. Like any other art form, the masses will ultimately decide with their support or lack thereof.

cuponator3000

May-31-2017 8:33 PM

Yep, since the movie released I have spent a lot of time thinking about how hard the studio and Ridely tried to balanace EVERYTHING in one movie for everyone and it just did not turn out to please everyone (What thing in this world does that though?). It was a risky move that didn't work out, but I almost have to applaud that attempt. It takes balls to try THAT hard. It came out as more of something catered to hardcore Alien series fans (less for casual moviegoers), but not enough of those fans liked it, so yeah. 

I will always like this movie though. I may or may not come to love it as much as Prometheus or Alien, but I have a great experience everytime I see this movie and am thankful to find so much meaing and enjoyment from a movie franchise! Especially one as unique as this! As Starlogger straight up said, perhaps no franchise has ever been so diverse. Between the different directions every film has taken and fan opinion, it is truly unique. 

Not a map, an invitation

Starlogger

Jun-01-2017 6:01 AM

@cuponator3000 well said. I truly enjoyed the movie, and its one I will enjoy over and over. But, I can understand some of the criticisms.

suwhited

Jun-01-2017 6:24 AM

I think a Film-maker should not try to please everyone because you cant (Too many fickle fans like me)...

However, One thing I bothers me is the way things were just swept away to cater to the "Aliens crowd mindset"...I think if Alien Covenant was made into two films and taken the time to buiild the plot towards all these events, it would have went over much better.

I will say that Ridleys take on have an ancient, technologically advanced, space-faring race wiped out by "I-robot" in a few minutes is pretty cheesy...It takes me longer than that to kill the termite mounds in my backyard...

djamelameziane

Jun-01-2017 6:48 AM

 again its actually the films that lead all this alien was hard sci fi and very realistic. It's set in our universe and more specifically earth summary system / galaxy and in our future.

Starwars on the other hand is a galaxy far far away a long time ago so it has basically no link to our everyday life officially.  But of course we can see they speak our language and look like us and all ideas are based on our culture the force linking to Buddhism for one example. 

This is why you get such a difference... a fan of alien can go that would never happen I've seen that happen 100 times in real life and it's never happened.

Then you move on to starwars and you can't say oh when i use the force i can control objects much better than that that's unrealistic :D . And so it can get away with more.  But yes not everything as again it has to relate to our experiences to make sense. And the same for the other movies you mentioned. 

And yes the biggest problem is the alien films have been all over the place Ridley and original team set up a real feeling with a hard sci fi it carried over ok but took a slight turn in aliens then 3 was trying to be real but just fell apart. 4 hmm :D . And then we get to Prometheus... And that is were the problem is Ridley didn't set up a universe around the alien projected forward and back exactly what had happened off screen so that it felt solid and real fitting into our expectations of our future as such. It was all done on the fly with minimal fore thought and it shows... muddled, loose and fragmented. So hard to place as to what it's trying to do...because it sure as hell just looks like a mess so far.  Even with the great bits weaved in between.  :(

 

 

 "It's almost as if they are making it up as they go along" :D

Thoughts_Dreams

Jun-01-2017 1:16 PM

I can throw this post in:

 

When I think about alien movies it feels like a lot of times they fit into different genres. Alien was like a horror movie, Aliens was an action movie (good action and some interesting characters but not very scary). Alien 3 was a bit back to the tone of Alien which I appreciate because it gave its own twist on it in a way. What about AR? LOL! It was like a failed comedy but it is sort of fun but probably for other reasons than what I guess that they intended.

 

Prometheus was like a fantasy, sci-fi movie. It is almost like walking into a mysterious world like a Lord of the Rings movie. This seems to be a bit off when I compare it to the other movies, but my biggest problems with it is bad characters.

 

I can see why it gets hard to please everyone with Alien Covenant. Hopefully I will be somewhat pleased with it when I watch it I don't have a lot of expectations about it.

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