Hello! I watched Covenant today and I wonder about how did David get on the Covenant. The most possible explanation was that he transferred his consciousness to Walter but when did this happened ? During that gay kiss or was it after their fight when David says to him that this is his last chance: choose them or him. I'm also not sure about that scene with flute and hit in the neck. Was it to show Walters regeneration ability or did David hit perfectly in his turn off switch and then preprogrammed him.
Its quite simple david stabbed walter in the kneck again to shut him down and quickly cut his own hand off and changed cloths.
The scene where he jabbed the flute was basically to shjow how david went bonkers but also to show how walter has different characteristics.
I saw the movie today. Like S1mOn said : he cut his own hand off and changed cloths with Walter.
At the end of the fight, David is on the ground and get punched several times in the face by Walter, then David says something like " It's your choice, it's me or them. " Cut on the face of Walter - cut on the hand of David grabing a knife - close-up of Walter's face - and it cuts to black. If I remember correctly.
Do not think so, David makes on Walter an eraser or some electronic insertion hacking his memory, if I remember well Daniels fighting, she nailed him a nail under his nut or chin, finally David does not appear with such injury at the end of the movie when she... (SPOILER) https://youtu.be/tU_jori5mos
Its a interesting one for sure...
I will have to watch the movie a 3rd time but i am sure at the End MUTHUR refers to David as David
R.I.P Sox 01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017
Yes, indeed, BigDave that for sure, he did the same thing with Walters body.
I've been thinking through the different possible scenarios for this: How about if it was not actually David who boarded the Covenant pretending to be Walter after killing him in the laboratory, but it was actually Walter who won the fight by somehow uploading David's complete neuro-android system and with all the information regarding David's life, history, memories personality, ego etc. and how it has evolved, becoming David in Walter's upgraded body. There are some clues I noticed to back this up. Remember David's surprise when Walter turns up after David has just removed his vital part which will completely disable Walter. David says something like, "I thought you were dead", and then Walter says something like: "I have improved upgrades". This makes it clear that Walter has functions that David is unaware of, because he did not manage to disable him, so what new functions does Walter have? Perhaps this function of being able to upload another cyber organism in order to study it or learn its functions and history. A useful intelligence tool. Another clue I noticed later when Walter had finished putting Daniels into hyper sleep. He approached the colonist and embryo section of the ship and then issued the Mother Computer with a new security code which was "David followed by a number". Could David have given that order? Surely, the Mother Computer would recognise that this was not Walter, because he was an upgrade, a completely different model and for security reasons, she would have to be able to scan or have voice recognition to identify that the order was coming from the genuine android and ship manager who was Walter. So only Walter could give the order and by doing so would change the security access to David perhaps to cover any David behaviour that could make the Mother Computer suspicious or prevent ground control back on earth from trying to regain control of the ship if they ever suspected anything. Yet another clue I noticed was the reaction from Walter as he began to complete Daniels hyper sleep process, when Daniels then asked him to help him build the log cabin when they arrive at the destination planet. If it had been David he probably would have said something like: "Of course I will, anything that you need" or "don't worry everything will be taken care of", in that very reassuring voice of his. But because he didn't say anything, just stared at her, it was more likely to be Walter because he'd already indicated a willingness to do that earlier on and he wan't used to breaking his promises like David would. So he didn't respond and then suddenly Daniels feared that it was David because he had not known about the previous conversation concerning the log cabin.
So to some up, Walter uploadef David into himself and became David and Walter with the benefits of both
Although positively ghoulish is a very well-structured idea about Walter identity, but the question then: [SPOILER] Why would (Walter) chooses Wagner’s Entry of the Gods Into Valhalla?
" David makes on Walter an eraser or some electronic insertion hacking his memory " : I don't remember that at all, I have to go see the movie again.
@Soylent Blue : Walter uploading the David's complete neuro-android system is an interresting and plausible theory, but I think he should have known for the cabin.
David would have to have transferred his consciousness to Walter's body, as it would have taken him too long to change clothes, fix his voice and saw his hand off for him to make it to the dropship in time.
No. The simplest explanation is that David stabs Walter to death or incapacity (decapitated). Then changes clothes before finally severing his hand off with the knife.
"Surely, the Mother Computer would recognise that this was not Walter"
This Scene David inputs a Code that relays a Order, and MUTHUR then refers to him as David. There is no way David could program a code to the Ship...
So the Ship must have had a Program already, that David accessed via a CODE... this raises some interesting questions, and certainly could make us wonder why Weyland-Yutani Ships have Secret Programs and Codes embedded?
It could mean Ridley Scott will explore AI in more detail, and behind the scenes maybe AI plays a massive role in the Companies Fate and Agenda.
Regarding the Cabin on the Lake
When Daniels tells Walter about this, he does not know what she is on about as David was not aware of this conversation, this then was the shocking moment she realized it was David... i feel this was a Bad Bad Plot Choice because now... for the Sequel Daniels knows who David is.. and so David will have to dispose of her as she will get in his way... Surely they cant do a Shaw on Daniels?
This also means its unlikely David acquired Walters Knowledge during some kind of Mind Transfer as surely he would have known about the Cabin.... Which supports maybe the Alternative theory that David simply took Walters Clothes and then cut off his Hand.
R.I.P Sox 01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017
David had no time to injuring himself, this is a missing scene maybe shooted, he practices a lobotomy or eraser on Walter, loss of non-massive data, he took the essential info, seizing main vital functions, but he could not access to some Walters memories (max security) or (data code hard to hacking), remember is modern android than David. There is no doubt that is Walter's body, there is no incision perpetrated by Daniels on his chin or neck.
Saw Covenant. Disappointing by the lack of closer, guess that is standard R. Scott M.O. for this series. Only one more to go, so they say. Anyway. I think logically David had to have, in some fashion not reveled in this film, defeated Walter and impersonated him.
They are, for all intent and purpose, identical. All be it Walter is the next generation. I think he probably could have ripped off Walters arm ripped his off and put Walter's arm in his shoulder socket.
What I find odd is why did Davids hair grew long, and you see as soon as he meets David he cuts it to mimic Walter who had his same haircut from the previous movie. David claims to have made progress with Genomics. Maybe somehow making himself part human, but also still part machine?? He gets stabbed under the chin and it looks like he is bleeding red, not white, even though I do think that was the lanyard attached to the flute Scott does like to hide little Easter Egg hints in his movies. Maybe hinting David is now both man and machine, and he is now the creator not the created. Which is the obvious motivation behind his actions as seen in (besides basically everything else he says in the movie) the opening when he questions Weyland about who created him and how its ironic how he serves him yet he will not die as Weyland, who created him, will. Super esoteric.
I really wanted to know more detail about exactly what happened to Shaw. Did David send out that signal of her singing John Denver. Did David just leave her for dead in the Hypersleep Chamber and plant her Dog Tag and Photo? Did he wake her and just cut her down, he seems to have some affection for her still. Maybe she is still alive in the Hypersleep chamber. Obviously the Covenant Crew were lured there and who could have it been but David unless Shaw is alive somewhere in hiding. Maybe David was able to intercept or listen in on the transmissions from Covenant (or has been in contact with the company) and some how orchestrated the incident that led them there, it would be a hell of a coincidence otherwise. Maybe, like in the original, Walter was in on it all along and had his own "Special Order" crew expendable. David did not seem to have a problem controlling M.O.T.H.E.R identifying as David, not Walter, when he hijacked the Covenant. Also, I believe, they are not Weyland Corp. as in Prometheus but now have merged with Yatani to become Weyland-Yatani, the same "company" that sent the crew of the Nostromo to their doom knowingly in order to get a live Xeno back to earth to study for weapons research.
More to be reveled in the next movie which, hopefully, promises to connect this story-line with the Ripley Saga.
I personally think Walter decided to help David. Walter had him dead to rights and David asked him a question. Walter sided with David remained on the planet while David went off to kill everyone.
i don't buy the Walter got incapacitated again because he can self repair and he probably would have tried to communicate with the ship via the equipment I think they left because they were in a hurry. The part is left for debate.
I find that quit possible. Presuming Walter was in on this the whole time and David was somehow working with Weyland-Yatani to sabotage and get his "research" into their hands. He could have maybe given Walter a special command that engaged some kind of compliance or control over him. David could have cut his hand off and mimicked David's injuries or switched parts or maybe even minds with Walter. We shall see, I, along with almost everyone I taked to, were dead wrong about the Engineers and the plot for Covenant (formerly called Paradise) I hope, and I think, we will get the answer to this and to the true fate of Shaw and the rest in the last installment of the prequel trilogy. Not for a couple years though... unless someone manages to smuggle a script and leak it.
Another hole on the plot is: Where does the cabin shot on the lake come from? What does that viral or video meaning? What really that is?
Why am I reading so many comments that imply Shaw is still alive in hibernation or whatever? We clearly saw her as hamburger, right?
I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. Attack ships on fire off the shoulder of Orion. I watched Androids blow and finger each other's flutes.
That gay kiss was the kiss of Judas. An act of friendship which is just the opposite of that.
Is there an agenda the mods are not telling us about? ;)
Having just seen Covenant, this is my theory:
During the final fight between David and Walter, Walter couldn’t bring himself to end David’s life and decides to download his predecessor’s consciousness (possibly to study what is wrong with David’s programming/logic). In that transfer, some sort of partial imprint occurs and now Walter and David both occupy the same body. It is also at this time that Walter/David recovers the two facehugger embryos from David's old body and swallows them.
As Daniels is going into cryosleep and asks Walter/David about the log cabin, his blank stare is some sort of logic error occurring between the two corrupted personality images operating in Walter/David’s mind.
With everyone asleep Walter/David may be able to isolate the corrupted code that made David so spiteful towards humanity. Once this code was isolated he would then be able to replicate it, and merge it with M.U.T.H.E.R. which could then infect other synthetics (i.e. Ash from Alien) with the homicidal code.
In Alien, Ash has a noticeable decline in mental health, and appears almost physically sick. Could this be the result of the synthetic’s logic virus passed on from M.U.T.H.E.R.? Could the “distress signal” sent in Alien actually have carried the logic virus to Nostromo’s M.U.T.H.E.R? Another similarity exists between David’s assault on Daniels, and Ash’s assault on Ripely, like a similar thought process was occurring.
Also, in Aliens, Bishop makes a point to state that he has fail-safe programming that supersedes all other actions, to ensure he will not hurt humans—directly, or indirectly. Could this be a result of WeylandYutani techs finding the logic virus on their interstellar servers, and then patching the vulnerabilities in redesigned synthetics? While Bishop is intrigued with Xenomorph, he doesn’t appear to go to the extremes that the older model synthetics had.
Probably the same reason he can have his hand chopped off, staple his face, walk around barefoot over unfriendly terrain, etc. He's not human he's a machine even if he doesn't think so. The eggs aren't going to choke him.
splatterpunk, sry my wording choice wasn't very clear. I meant, at what point in time did the embryos get swallowed? After some sleep, I think I understand now; I've updated my post.
Umm. You are all barking down the wrong tree.
Walter was programmed to get the Alien embryos. All the synthetics are. That's all that is. No weird alien mind sex, that part was weird enough already.
That Walter had a hidden agenda is all possible he had intel on the Prometheus mission.
As for David's being on board at the end. Murthur was offline because of the EMP storm, she couldn't have noticed David's mascarade, tampering with cryoeggs, reprograming her codes. Besides no hole in Walter's neck but scars I don't buy it. Think Fox wants us to go and see the films two, three times each so they can make billions ;) and will decide which one survives based on the majority's preferences. I think David wins here he is a cameleon actor... he's more complex than his brother. Fassbender confirms Walter is more boring and the film isn't very subtle to have us believe in something not shown on screens before like AI-USB transfers...
Ridley confirms David incapacitated Walter then cut off his own hand and impersonated Walter in this Podcast. As for how David was able to communicate with Mother and have control over the ship, I assume because no one thought to rescind David's permissions with the ships A.I after the Prometheus disappeared he simply still had full access.
Hi, I don't think David needed a voice changer or whatever...At the beginning of Prometheous was seen imitating the voice of the actor in the movie he was watching...
Walter is dead or alive. I would like to think he will be back as a hero. After all the crashed engineer ship still had power in that console...
OT but Elizabeth Shaw is super dead. David was our protagonist all along... I just love that he's so messed up and unpredictable.
I believe it's possible that David processed the entire chain of events up to him gaining access to the covenant and placing the alien embryos in the drawer. He built in some kinda of worm or virus that allowed him a backdoor into all of Weylands products to override and use anything to his advantage to help him complete his mission. It also could have been very similar parameters to the first alien movie where some kind of unknown corporate entity is looking for their next super weapon and without Weylands knowledge, reprogrammed or gave David a secret mission to bring back any viable weapon like materials or technology. When contact with David was lost this hidden corporate entity put Davids override codes into MUTHUR in case he was still alive. David being a machine interpreted his objectives differently and was simply trying to ensure the success of his mission by any means necessary.
Keep in mind that the company doesn't know that David has gone rogue, so his access keys may still be valid.
Or, maybe they programmed him that way... and his access keys are all still valid....
David grabbed the knife in the last fight, while Walter punched his face.
He likely deactivated him again and used that knife as well to cut off his own hand.
Not sure how long Walter stays deactivated after a critical hit but if it's longer than 30 minutes then time is plenty enough so David can swap the roles.
Other than that. I wonder when David ingested that two facehugger-embryos? Looks weird that scene, like a cliche-antagonist revenge-surprise-scenario.
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