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Alien: Covenant

Alien: Covenant - Prometheus sequel by Ridley Scott

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Theory: Is the Black Goo Cameron's Queen?

Theory: Is the Black Goo Cameron's Queen?

Ingeniero

Member

205

Posted Mar-25-2017 12:12 PM

I have cited the black goo urn possibly shown (title image above, top center) in other topics. (No urn as far as we see now, an Engineer's head instead, thank you Ati.)

Why wouldn't black goo in Alien: Covenant be what we expect from a queen in the xenomorph cycle shown in James Cameron's Aliens (1986)?

I have considered the Trilobite in the image of the queen in the xenomorph cycle but black goo may be the queen or womb.

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Replies

Ingeniero

Member

205

Posted Mar-25-2017 12:17 PM

It does look like David 8 found many applications for the black goo.

Apex_Predator

Member

5

Posted Mar-25-2017 12:26 PM

Having a queen makes the xenomorphs just oversized cockroaches

Want some candy?

Ingeniero

Member

205

Posted Mar-25-2017 12:37 PM

Apex_Predator, that is exactly how I feel. The xenomorph is an organism reordered from the molecule up via black goo.

I believe this room to signify the womb of the cycle.

The Giger image below displays the womb.

Gavin

Admin

352

Posted Mar-25-2017 12:39 PM

Having a Queen makes the Xenomorphs able to propagate more efficiently and at a faster rate.

Ingeniero

Member

205

Posted Mar-25-2017 12:45 PM

Correct Gavin Singleton.

With black goo you can make a queen out of any DNA-based organism or even potentially affect a synthetic/organic hybrid that may house a DNA component.

Ati

Member

373

Posted Mar-25-2017 12:50 PM

Ingeniero - I believe that is not an urn in the poster, but an engineer's head. You can see his ear next to the letter N:

Ingeniero

Member

205

Posted Mar-25-2017 12:54 PM

Actually Ati, I see that now in regards to the urn in the movie poster. Good job. I can make out the Engineer's ear now. Thank you.

Same still goes for black goo. No expectation of a Cameron queen in Alien: Covenant here but I do expect the fruit of black goo.

Grinning & Dropping Linen

Member

8

Posted Mar-25-2017 4:50 PM

@ingeniero @apex predator 

I agree with you both, although I liked the queen and love the movie Alien if the queen is the way the xeno morphs reproduce then they are nothing more than dangerous cockroaches and easier to understand, and if something is understood it is automatically and significantly less terrifying by definition. Not to mention that the queen kind of backs them into a corner from a story telling point of view. I prefer they keep mutation and hopefully egg morphing as the ways for reproduction, it's horrific and can be used for countless terrifying and dramatic scenarios. The queen is simple, very surface level.... She's mean, lays eggs, chases our heroes, fights our heroes repeat.... Not a lot of depth to it.

if you use the egg morphing, and mutation angle it allows you to keep that ancient cosmic horror element. Additionally it leaves certain things open ended with the mutation angle as far as story telling possibilities. I agree with one poster above, yes a queen is most efficient way for them to reproduce but it's not the scariest, most imaginative nor does it serve this film universe best.

if they use the queen I'd prefer to do it like this. Still allow for s single xeno to egg morph or mutate victims. Then after there is a large enough population of Xenos perhaps one of them then develops into a queen for the purpose of maintaining a hive. Allowing a single organism to use egg morphing as a means of reproduction solidifies it as a perfect organism, it needs nothing to multiply and take over an ecosystem, just victims. Allowing for it this capability is far scarier, unimaginable, and Lovecraftian. Just imagine the characters having to deal with themselves or a loved one being morphed, or worse yet the idea of them becoming aware that their demise is by something that use to be their loved one. U can play out the terror and nightmare of having to deal with this onscreen at such a high haunting level, it'd be amazing. But I hope Rifley keeps it as a perfect creature it just needs victims to propagate through mutation of perhaps some other as of yet discovered means. But if the queen is used,she is not the primary source of reproduction ,but rather a byproduct of having a single xeno reproducing enough so that a hive and a queen is introduced . Perfect organism, just needs victims, keep it perfect Ridley, please.

ninXeno426

Member

189

Posted Mar-25-2017 5:47 PM

Thanks for running this one Ingeniero.I've been thinking the same for a while now too.I was going to run a topic on it but this'll do.I'm going to put my idea together and come back

Would you Kindly?

auximenes

Member

0

Posted Mar-25-2017 9:45 PM

@Ingenario, I don't think the Black Goo is the womb, it's the victim of the Facehugger that's the womb.

This image to me reinforces the Giger concept of the Juggernauts themselves being bio-mechanical and actually the producers of the Eggs. It shows an Engineer overseeing the impregnation of another volunteer/victim Engineer by the Facehugger which comes out of the Egg.

Side thoughts: It seems like Facehuggers deposit a load of Black Goo into the victim. Also, the urns full of Black Goo appear to be artificial stand-ins for Eggs.

dk

Member

231

Posted Mar-25-2017 9:52 PM

I know RS wasn't crazy about the queen idea, but WHAT IF: some kind of queen is in AC? That could fill in a continuity/plot hole between Alien and Aliens and open it up for Alien 5 yes?

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

Karran56

Member

0

Posted Mar-26-2017 12:37 AM

Cockroaches don't have Queens just saying

Ingeniero

Member

205

Posted Mar-26-2017 5:30 AM

"then they are nothing more than dangerous cockroaches and easier to understand, and if something is understood it is automatically and significantly less terrifying by definition. Not to mention that the queen kind of backs them into a corner from a story telling point of view. I prefer they keep mutation and hopefully egg morphing as the ways for reproduction, it's horrific and can be used for countless terrifying and dramatic scenarios. The queen is simple, very surface level.... She's mean, lays eggs, chases our heroes, fights our heroes repeat.... Not a lot of depth to it."

Grinning & Dropping Linen, that brought tears to my eyes. 

Karran56, yes, you're biologically correct but in Alien anthology cockroaches have queens in order to be a good frame of reference for a bad idea.

Ingeniero

Member

205

Posted Mar-26-2017 5:37 AM

auximenes, it's hard to know for sure at this point. You do make a great point about the juggernaut producing the eggs because there is definitely Giger art that depicts that.

"Side thoughts: It seems like Facehuggers deposit a load of Black Goo into the victim. Also, the urns full of Black Goo appear to be artificial stand-ins for Eggs."

The black goo has a place in all of it if it is not the central concept for reproduction. There were no facehuggers in Prometheus and David 8 was able to use the black goo in reproduction.

Ingeniero

Member

205

Posted Mar-26-2017 5:50 AM

Thank you again ninXeno426.

I think your topic and the comments from others on "Why no animal life ?" are great.

MonsterZero

Member

2

Posted Mar-26-2017 7:05 AM

Why does the Queen produce facehuggers and not baby Xenomorphs?

Is there a baby xeno inside the facehugger? and that's deposited inside the victim? 

I would think what animal the facehugger 'hugs' will determine the monster? Or is it ALWAYS a Xeno, regardless of the animal?

Facehugger full of black goo make sense. Queen is really just making a homing vessel.

 

Ingeniero

Member

205

Posted Mar-26-2017 9:59 AM

I guess this whole discussion has to take into account that the facehuggers come from eggs...what lays the eggs?

Juggernaut, queen, or black goo host.

 

Grinning & Dropping Linen

Member

8

Posted Mar-26-2017 10:42 AM

perhaps the eggs in the trailer and photo above were once urns, maybe if left in certain uncontrolled environment over time the black goo can even mutate non organic material....remember the urn room in Prometheus was a controlled environment until the crew went in there, then after the lids started bubbling and black goo began running out of them onto the ground below, i feel that is significant somehow. i think the eggs in AC were once urns, if there was one i would say that David eggmorphed Shaw but since there are multiple and all of the engineers are petrified, you have to ask what item were their multiple numbers of that David could get his hands on??

Just spitballing, thoughts...i still wanna know how the ampules tops started getting all gooey and running out onto the ground, other than the atmosphere in the room that would indicate the black goo is strong enough to not be contained otherwise

Ingeniero

Member

205

Posted Mar-26-2017 7:20 PM

Grinning & Dropping Linen, I did notice the urns change and it even looked like small worms on top of the urns used to agitate the black goo out.

I can't know for sure but with what Ridley Scott has said about Alien: Awakening, I can only assume that David 8 was able to cultivate eggs from Engineers asleep in the other juggernauts on LV-223 or plant biology or by some other means. 

BigDave has pointed out human tech (lit up xenomorph head in upper right corner of image below) in place when the Covenant crew showed up like the lights in the workshop.

David 8 could have taken over another crew like what we have seen with the Covenant crew.

David 8 had ten years in between the events of Prometheus on LV-223 and what we have seen with him on Paradise. David 8 and Dr. Shaw left LV-223 in a juggernaut so they had unlimited range and a decade before the Covenant crew arrived on Paradise.

With what we saw David 8 do in a matter of days in Prometheus, what could he do with an Engineer ship and a decade on his own with Dr. Elizabeth Shaw. Dr. Shaw may have not made it to Paradise alive (who knows) but she did leave LV-223 with David 8.

 

auximenes

Member

0

Posted Mar-26-2017 10:44 PM

@MonsterZero "I would think what animal the facehugger 'hugs' will determine the monster? Or is it ALWAYS a Xeno, regardless of the animal?"
As far as we've seen the offspring takes on characteristics of its host although the majority of its traits are the base 'nasty black-skinned morph'.

Ingeniero

Member

205

Posted Mar-27-2017 4:18 AM

A trailer for this topic has been uploaded to YouTube.

Thank you all contributors.

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCwyNYNcR59pbLUGn4_qhx8Q

 

Ingeniero

Member

205

Posted Mar-28-2017 5:03 PM

"Or is it ALWAYS a Xeno, regardless of the animal?"

auximenes, I believe the facehugger gives you a xenomorph and the "animal" affected is just a canister to grow it in.

Tiwaz

Member

18

Posted Mar-28-2017 5:17 PM

I'd say always a Xeno but with some traits of the host organism/creature. Like the runner from A3.

Eine Theorie die nicht auf Etwas solidem basiert ist für gewöhnlich nur Geschwätz.

Ingeniero

Member

205

Posted Mar-29-2017 10:03 AM

Tiwaz, I believe you are correct. The host is the canister for the xenomorph but there are obvious traits retained from the host. We see differences in the xenomorphs and that is most certainly due to different types of host organisms.

Ingeniero

Member

205

Posted Mar-29-2017 1:55 PM

Here is a better shot of David 8's worktable.

Chris

Admin

1486

Posted Mar-29-2017 2:05 PM

Apologies, but I had to edit the title for this topic because too many dense people on social media can't fathom or take a minute to read that this is a fan discussion in a fan forum. Smh

Tiwaz

Member

18

Posted Mar-29-2017 2:12 PM

Talk 'bout digital dementia...... *whistle*

Eine Theorie die nicht auf Etwas solidem basiert ist für gewöhnlich nur Geschwätz.

Ingeniero

Member

205

Posted Mar-29-2017 2:15 PM

I knew eventually that I would be censored Chris.

No, I'm actually flattered. I am not a part of social media so I had no idea of the controversy. That's so awesome. I'm sorry you had to address it. It is still a little awesome though but not great enough for me to take part in social media.

I do start all my Alien: Covenant, Prometheus Analysis YouTube content with an "opinion" clarification. I still receive very unfortunate feedback in commentary.

Chris

Admin

1486

Posted Mar-29-2017 2:37 PM

Unfortunately that's the way of the online world. Rarely do supporters voice their support, it's always the anonymous haters trying to boost their self worth by crapping on other people's ideas. I try to ignore them but you guys here are like family and so I feel a need to defend you when people decide to throw shade. But as they say, haters gonna hate. Haha

Sorry to temporarily derail the topic tho folks, carry in with the OP! 

Ingeniero

Member

205

Posted Mar-29-2017 2:39 PM

Thank you for the support Tiwaz.

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About Alien: Covenant

Alien: Covenant Movie

Release Date:

May 19th, 2017

Plot Synopsis:

Ridley Scott returns to the universe he created in ALIEN with ALIEN: COVENANT, the second chapter in a prequel trilogy that began with PROMETHEUS -- and connects directly to Scott’s 1979 seminal work of science fiction. Bound for a remote planet on the far side of the galaxy, the crew of the colony ship Covenant discovers what they think is an uncharted paradise, but is actually a dark, dangerous world -- whose sole inhabitant is the "synthetic" David (Michael Fassbender), survivor of the doomed Prometheus expedition.

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