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Ridley Scott explains why David bombed the Engineers!
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Alien: Covenant

Alien: Covenant - Prometheus sequel by Ridley Scott

Alien: Covenant

COUNTDOWN TO COVENANT MISSION LAUNCH:

Engineer Weapon System

Engineer Weapon System

Ingeniero

Member

113

Posted Mar-03-2017 8:17 AM

The Engineer in the beginning of Prometheus consumed a small amount of black liquid in order to affect a planet.

With such a small amount used before the Engineer elders left, what would happen if David 8 used to contents of the cargo hold shown above (or from the juggernaut shown crashed) to wipe out Paradise on arrival?

David 8 obviously can turn it on and pilot the juggernaut.

Why wouldn't David 8 be able to carry out the plans the Engineers on LV-223 had for Earth but on their home?

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Replies

Ingeniero

Member

113

Posted Mar-03-2017 11:51 AM

The opening on the face hugger resembles the opening on the side of the juggernaut (and other things thank you DeaconLove).

Do you think this is the opening for the weapon system, a way to deploy black goo tech from above? 

The similar opening on the face hugger delivers the egg.

dk

Member

120

Posted Mar-03-2017 9:31 PM

If that is so, I would expect to see eggs or goo containers near that entrance to deploy. I would also expect to see a barrier to seal the ship from the vacuum of space.

Ingeniero

Member

113

Posted Mar-04-2017 5:19 AM

At the end of Prometheus Dr. Shaw told Janek to destroy the ship leaving for Earth because "it was carrying death and headed for Earth." David had confirmed these plans with Dr. Shaw when he claimed "to create first you must destroy."

The mapping system David 8 activated had Earth targeted (see above). David also said "things went to pot" when telling the group about the intentions' the Engineers that he learned from the hologram playback. This was in reference to the attack shown in the first hologram playback.

If it isn't a black goo deployment opening it could be a really big speaker to broadcast harsh language when arriving to Earth. That could kill off all the thin-skinned inhabitants. 

Ingeniero

Member

113

Posted Mar-04-2017 9:05 AM

I agree dk that we didn't see the weapons near where they are set to deploy from but the Engineer technology blends into the background.

The green goo (covered by Cerulean Blue) was spread over everything to provide nanotech connections to support hologram playback (that David 8 initiated) and an infinite amount of capability that I couldn't even imagine.

The juggernaut ship looks like it was carved out of a mountain and then saturated with nanotech to reinforce and build out the internal systems. The Janek's Prometheus ship knocked it out of the sky but was crumpled like foil hitting the rising juggernaut.

Whatever the juggernaut was made of, the ship was a solid homogeneous structure that took the hits of both the Prometheus and the ground below. And one from Vicker's hands but that was minor.

I would think the weapons blend into the background like other Engineer nanotech embedded in their construction via green goo and things we haven't see yet.

The pilot's chair rising above is an example of the Engineer technology that blends into the background to be called into use. The juggernaut ship also blends into the background, see below.

Morpheus

Member

0

Posted Mar-04-2017 3:35 PM

The ship is organic, its a freakin living thing of its own...the engineers do not create life they seed it because its their mission given by the force ridley didnt reveal yet...

Ingeniero

Member

113

Posted Mar-04-2017 3:41 PM

Organic is a better way to put it. The inside of the Engineer helmet looks like lettuce, grown for the task.

Stan Winston (deceased)

Member

3

Posted Mar-04-2017 4:44 PM

I despair every time I see the image of an anthropoid adonis in the place of what should be the elephantine space jockey.

suwhited

Member

2

Posted Mar-04-2017 5:33 PM

I agree that the Juggernaut, looks, feels, and moves like it was biologically grown (test tube baby...?).

As far as the cargo...Just one cannister of black nasty dropped into a major water source would ruin our day. What would it take to kill only 100 mutated "Fifields...?"

Dropping all of that on earth would be like using a thermo-nuclear device to kill the rats that keep crapping in your granola.

Maybe the Engineers were on a bus-stop schedule of destruction...and our planet just happened to be the next on on the line..

Nycro

Member

10

Posted Mar-04-2017 6:10 PM

@Stan  -  The whole engineer/space jockey thing bugs me as well, but for another reason altogether.  The Bro in the chair seems much larger to me than the Engineers we say on LV-223.

dk

Member

120

Posted Mar-04-2017 6:23 PM

The Engineer in the chair's head also looks somewhat artificial compared to the ones in the prologue.

Back to the OP- it seems the goo canisters would perhaps be put on some kind of conveyor belt and drop the payload out of the vaginal looking exits when the target is identified and in range?

BigDave

Moderator

261

Posted Mar-04-2017 6:36 PM

Its unknown really....

So it could be possible.... that those entrances could be used to Drop the Urns or Eggs... but they dont seem to directly connect to the Egg Chamber... the Juggernaughts Cargo hold they link up to it better but still not directly.

The Pilot Chair Telescope thing looks like its a Canon you could load Urns into but how does this fire?  Unless the Window above the Control room opens and then they can fire the Urns out?

I always thought they could be exhaust system? as the ship seems to propel itself from the back... i.e those 3 entrances are at the back

Wishing those around the World who finally get to see AC this week a very good weekend

Nycro

Member

10

Posted Mar-04-2017 6:45 PM

Exhaust as BigDave stated, or maybe a miniature atmospheric creation/terraforming mechanism for space travel/hostile environments?  Perhaps using living biological/cellular based walls as an Oxygen catalyst?

dk

Member

120

Posted Mar-04-2017 6:49 PM

They might be used for both exhaust and deploying urns and eggs? That seems more efficient.

BigDave

Moderator

261

Posted Mar-04-2017 7:00 PM

I think its another one of those things where they never thought the design of the ship out at all....  at least maybe.. i hope they now have sat down and have actual schematics for the whole ship

If we look at the plans for how people can enter the ship we had two different ways as far as concept work

anyone who can translate french may be able to get the answers.

So we have one from the Front and another access from the rear,  i think both could apply.... the Map of the Temple in Prometheus seemed to hint the crew entered via the other opening as in the first image....  yet latter Shaw was shown to exit the ship via those 3 openings shown in the second image.

The Cargo Holds would have been held at either A or B on above images maybe both and they would have the same either side of the Center Control Room

This may help us to figure out how does the Cargo get to where it is dropped or fired from? 

As you can see it seems the Prometheus Crew entered the Rear that is the Front of the Ship and so opposite end to those 3 openings yet they ended up in either Section A or B first.. the only explanation is that from the Entrance there is no direct route to the Central Part and so the path goes around in a circle around point A and they enter the rear of this section.

 

 

Wishing those around the World who finally get to see AC this week a very good weekend

BigDave

Moderator

261

Posted Mar-04-2017 7:04 PM

So looking at those images i fail to see any place they can be dropped from apart from those entrances but how do they get to that part?

Other option is one or both of the like Hammer-Head parts of the ship... but again how do the Urns get their?

Maybe we  can find out in Alien Covenant?

The only thing i can consider is they are sucked down in the Cargo Area to a lower part of the ship and they go into some-device that the Urns dissolve or at least a part does and so then the Goo is then transferred via pipes to another part and is Sprayed out instead of being dropped.

I have no idea how this works with the Eggs

Wishing those around the World who finally get to see AC this week a very good weekend

Ingeniero

Member

113

Posted Mar-05-2017 12:35 AM

Really great pics BigDave of the juggernaut hologram and analysis. And good find with the French Alien artwork.

The large green bubbles seem to signify segregation of some sort inside the juggernaut hologram and it does look like cargo holds. 

 

Ingeniero

Member

113

Posted Mar-06-2017 7:46 AM

 

BigDave the French artwork may be inconsistent with Ridley Scott's designs in regards to the holes on the side of the juggernaut. Another artist's take on the limited available information on the juggernaut design and function.

This may be similar to the reason we saw Giger influenced walls and structure in Aliens when the team on LV-426 went into the xenomorph hive.

Would the xenomorphs build something that looks like the Engineer construction of the interior of the juggernaut in the area of the hive the military reaches when looking for the colonists?

This just might be James Cameron's take on the xenomorph capability without consideration for the Engineers place in the story.

Ingeniero

Member

113

Posted Mar-11-2017 6:56 PM

I am only assuming that all the juggernauts on LV-223 had similar cargo.

BigDave

Moderator

261

Posted Mar-11-2017 7:28 PM

Indeed we have to assume that too, if we assume those Urns we see in Alien Covenant come from David and the Juggernaught he had. 

Spaights draft did show many experiments relating to the Xenomorph where they was working on 8 different kinds and all 8 was stored in the ships.

But this has changed now to the Black Goo Urns so i would assume they do have the same Cargo... but maybe the Genetic DNA in each is a different variation..

Maybe this is why in AC the Aliens are different a bit to the Deacon based ones in Prometheus?

Wishing those around the World who finally get to see AC this week a very good weekend

BigDave

Moderator

261

Posted Mar-11-2017 7:38 PM

I think a more interesting thing we forget to look at a lot is how they are stored in the OT Picture..

They seem to be stacked up and some on their sides, and encased into some kind of Material thats Set.

Almost like you are Concreting a Drive or Floor and then you stick Batteries AA sized into the mix and then it sets.

If you get what i mean...

Its just hard to think how do they remove them from where they are stored, does this stuff when activated simply Melt away.. does some reaction happen like say THERMITE?

I mean this would surely Burn those who it is dropped onto so are these Ships kind of Kamikaze One off Suicide Missions?

But then what is the Purpose of the Urns in all this?

Unless they are actually some kind of Bio-Tech Battery Power-source  that causes a Reaction....  One theory a few discused before was could they merely be Biological Fuel Cells...

That accidentally leads to a contamination... like say Fukishima and the result was Mutations... that then those Engineers then realized allowed for something to be created?

As the Juggernaught in AC does have like dirt/ash powder on the floor and so we see similar around those Engineer bodies etc.

So is it kind of like the one element that makes Thermite as above on the Left?

Wishing those around the World who finally get to see AC this week a very good weekend

Ingeniero

Member

113

Posted Mar-11-2017 7:58 PM

BigDave you are spot on. Yes, the urns could get digested in the process of distributing the black goo.

The internals were like glass so if the urns were just poured out then the glass-like internal structure of the urn would dissolve and broadcast the black goo when the urns were forced opened upon impact.

With or without a thermite-type reaction.

BigDave

Moderator

261

Posted Mar-11-2017 8:11 PM

Indeed this seems to be what we see in Prometheus.

Inside there appears to be different elements that are kept apart, and when these are mixed... we get the Black Goo Reaction.

It is the Environment in the Big Head/Mural Room that prevented this from Activating until the Prometheus Crew affected this Atmosphere.

But indeed Freezing them does prevent them from being activated.  

Which could give a alternative reason for the way they are stuck too and into that compound and does it have a affect on being able to affect the Urns as far as to keep them in a suspended state?

Back to the Question about does every Ship have the Same Cargo?  I mentioned how Spaights draft had 8 kinds of Bio-Weapon Eggs, and indeed maybe there are different kinds of Urns as far as DNA

I find the Egyptian Canopic Jars interesting as they look like the Urns and have a removable Top 2/3rds of the way up.

Different Urns with different DNA Codes inside?

Wishing those around the World who finally get to see AC this week a very good weekend

Ingeniero

Member

113

Posted Mar-11-2017 9:49 PM

That example is great BigDave.

Do you think that is why we see different sized urns in the background of this image?

Segregated by what organism you wish to create.

Ingeniero

Member

113

Posted Mar-13-2017 1:05 PM

Here is a close up shot of the row of pyramids on LV-223.

And the below diagram again for example...

Captain Janek speculated that LV-223 could be a military installation due to the planet's segregation (from general population) and hostile environment.

Rick

Staff

52

Posted Mar-13-2017 4:19 PM

BD & Ungun,

How is this for an idea?  What if the whole dumbbell shaped urn pillar is dropped from space with a trajectory to hit the planet. During atmosphere entry the payload is spinning and the binder holding the urns together burns off. This would cause all the urns to separate from each other giving a much wider area of dispersion/devastation when they hit the ground spilling their contents everywhere  Or the urns open during entry seeding clouds with droplets of the black goo.  This would be my tactic.  The cloud seeding is possible with the goo oozing out the top vs david removing the lid in the lab.

 

Ingeniero

Member

113

Posted Mar-14-2017 11:41 AM

Rick, tear gas projectiles do not release gas. The contents (colored powder) is disbursed though the room (environment) once the tear gas projectile ruptures against hard surfaces. 

You could pour out all the urns from the juggernaut like legos out of a tea pitcher on the Engineers and the contents of the urns would rupture and aerosol the environment.

I would make sure that you get real close to drop the urns out and take out the local architecture too.

I'm projecting here but my conversations with David's severed head would start on this plan during the quad-tred vehicle ride to the other juggernaut that wasn't dropped once.

If I was Dr. Elizabeth Shaw and just lost my spouse to the Engineer's plans, I would be everything David needed me to be in order to wipe them out. I would think let's go to the Engineer home planet and wipe out those arrogant humanoids and David can run the show once I'm gone.

She is a smart girl so I think in the back of her mind she would believe David would die trying and good because of this.

BigDave

Moderator

261

Posted Mar-14-2017 12:25 PM

@Rick

I think indeed dropping the Goo into the Atmosphere would be ideal but also Water Supply.

We dont know yet how they get deployed however, what we do know is under certain environmental factors the Lid of the Urns seems to dissolve away and a reaction inside the Urns causes the  Black Goo to seep out of the Top....

I would ponder... do the Urns get loaded into some device that affects them and then allows the Black Goo to Seep out into some other device that then sprays the resulting Goo out?

Maybe the used up Urn canisters get placed somewhere else on the ship, in a separate hold instead of being shot out like Empty Ammo Cases.

So its basically like Spraying Crops with Pesticides rather than dropping actual Urns.

Wishing those around the World who finally get to see AC this week a very good weekend

BigDave

Moderator

261

Posted Mar-14-2017 12:32 PM

@Ingeniero

I think Shaw has nothing to lose and nothing to go back to, the only thing she has is her Faith and she wants answers so she can see if her Faith is something or nothing, and so i think death would not cause fear for her if she can get her answers.

The question is can David persuade her the chances of getting answers from these beings is small, and that by destroying them he can gain her answers from the ruins of their civilization.

We dont know as of yet if there are any beings on Paradise when David arrived, or how many.  The 4Chan leak claims there was many but David drops the Urns on them... where we see no evidence of Urns and the effects.

The COVENANT has to apply some how..

Maybe for these beings and especially if there are not many left or they was punished so that Females was taken away from them.

David has TWO Bargaining Tools

Shaw and the Black Goo either of which David can barter a Covenant with those beings or who remains.

Seems David has experimented on Engineers in his Lab, surely not from the Burnt remains we have seen.. so potentially he has some more Fresh Test Subjects.

Are these a few he finds and makes a Covenant with and then double crosses?

Or are there any in Cryo-Sleep on the Juggernaught, but then surely Shaw would want to wake them up and get her answers right there and then.

Wishing those around the World who finally get to see AC this week a very good weekend

Ingeniero

Member

113

Posted Mar-14-2017 1:38 PM

Thank you BigDave.

Maybe the solid housing (electrical field, UV catalyst?) holding the urns in place liquifies and the urns churn out together on the way out of a hole in the side of the ship to rain down.

A L I E N 4 2 6

Member

19

Posted Mar-14-2017 2:25 PM

I honestly never understood why people freak out so much that the Space Jockey from Alien is a fossilized suit. If it is organic like you all claim then it makes sense that it would fossilize. Also remember "An amazing state of preservation"? So I really don't mind it, but am quite entertained when you all complain about it 

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About Alien: Covenant

Alien: Covenant Movie

Release Date:

May 19th, 2017

Plot Synopsis:

Ridley Scott returns to the universe he created in ALIEN with ALIEN: COVENANT, the second chapter in a prequel trilogy that began with PROMETHEUS -- and connects directly to Scott’s 1979 seminal work of science fiction. Bound for a remote planet on the far side of the galaxy, the crew of the colony ship Covenant discovers what they think is an uncharted paradise, but is actually a dark, dangerous world -- whose sole inhabitant is the "synthetic" David (Michael Fassbender), survivor of the doomed Prometheus expedition.

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