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Drakeequation
MemberOvomorphMay-29-2012 8:43 AMFor those of us who have now read the plot to Promotheus, do you think it may have borrowed way too much from AVP? I mean the team composed of mercs and scientists, the briefing scene, the fact that Weyland is there and is dying (complete with secret agenda), the alien temple, the way in which the plot unfolds and the ending all seem very similar. It almost seems like the writers followed the formula of Alien, Aliens, Alien Resurrection, and AVP almost exactly. There is even the scene where a ship/structure explodes and everyone thinks they got away when an Alien stowaway reveals itself and attacks the survivors. What do you guys think?
62 Replies
Stay Frosty
MemberOvomorphMay-29-2012 8:47 AMI think you have a point my friend...Its what i was thinking a while back...would expect better from Riddles...but hey ho...
Biomechanomicon
MemberOvomorphMay-29-2012 9:04 AMI agree, I would expect something more from RS...
But I can't help thinking its all hype...
There's been so much work put into the trailers, viral sites, secrecy etc...
I just hope it doesn't disappoint!
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Redleader
MemberOvomorphMay-29-2012 9:16 AMI agree. Very similar, I could have written something new....but oh well.
Drakeequation
MemberOvomorphMay-29-2012 9:17 AMI also just remembered that the beginning of AVP shows the Predators giving rise to human civilization and being worshiped as Gods. AVP actually seems to be better thought out than Prometheus at this point...
Acidforblood
MemberOvomorphMay-29-2012 9:27 AMHaa...com'on guys;).... In Aliens they did the Info.speech back in the Cargo/docking bay too!..there were marines, Burke ( Corporation " slut"), Bishop (Robot / tech. And Doc.) and Ripley. There was no mercs. But Hey ...to say that it was stolen from AVP is like saying AVP has stolen it from Aliens... Be real ...is a group of People who has to be informed ..no offence;)
SaintsSinphony
MemberOvomorphMay-29-2012 9:37 AMI posted this point in the last thread but I guess it belongs here
AVP borrowed many concepts from the original Alien script. So actually Prometheus is going back to those original ideas that were not used in Alien. AVP was just recycling those ideas.
Also, in AVP the humans only worshiped the Predators, the Predators didn't create man.
SaintsSinphony
MemberOvomorphMay-29-2012 9:40 AMalso Darkeequation
I have seen a lot of your posts and they are mostly about how much you do not like Prometheus, or it's not meeting your expectations. How do you plan on coping with this, by writing as many negative comments on the film untill you feel better? I don't mind that you do but I get it, you don't like the film's story, you feel it isn't original. What would you change to better fit you?
Drakeequation
MemberOvomorphMay-29-2012 9:45 AMThis plot structure is unique to AVP:
Ancient aliens are worshiped as Gods
An ancient temple is found by some scientists
A team consisting of Weyland, scientists to study the temple, and mercs go on a mission to investigate the Alien temple
Inside the temple the team gets separated and some members of the team are attacked by facehuggers (cobra-alien much?)
The other team members are attacked by Aliens and Weyland reveals he is dying and has a hidden agenda
An Ancient alien of the species once worshiped as Gods kills him
A female human survivor escapes the exploding temple
Surprise, one main Alien Survives the explosion and attacks her
Then out of nowhere another extra-terrestrial attacks the Alien thus saving the female protagonist
To say Lindelof copied this plot structure would not be an understatement.
SaintsSinphony
MemberOvomorphMay-29-2012 9:53 AMBut again ALIEN had them originally (and even the book) go to a temple and find an ampule egg. Guy gets infected and then we have a heroine survive to the end and face off with an alien at the very last moment.
I'm not debating ideas in Prometheus havn't been used before, but they were used in ALIEN first, not AVP. They took ideas not used in ALIEN and brought them to life in PROMETHEUS.
Drakeequation
MemberOvomorphMay-29-2012 9:55 AM@ SaintsSymphony Your Ad Hominem attack only shows that you are desperate to be right but don't have any convincing evidence to support your claims.
Drakeequation
MemberOvomorphMay-29-2012 9:56 AMIn Alien it was not a Temple it was a ship, in alien a mining crew respond to a distress beacon of an alien ship and one of them gets infected. It is completely different. Alien did not have the plot structure I just outlined, it seems like you are skipping over what I write just to attack me.
Acidforblood
MemberOvomorphMay-29-2012 9:57 AMIt is almost what happens in Alien;).....group of People sent to investigate Signal/"Tempel"(Spaceship).... Get separated one attacked by facehugger, the others by bigger Alien after..... the Element of god is missing but ..again com'on stolen from AVP ;)
Drakeequation
MemberOvomorphMay-29-2012 9:59 AMThe dying Peter Weyland, the two different Aliens fighting after the explosion and saving the female protagonist, one ancient species worshiped as Gods by mankind, the scientists looking for answers. None of those things were in Alien but are unique to AVP.
Acidforblood
MemberOvomorphMay-29-2012 10:04 AMAnd why do you think they were woken up????..( mother...alias..Corporation !!)Not just responded!..sent by the firm..
But really the discussion is becoming hilarious!!..it's too dumm.
SaintsSinphony
MemberOvomorphMay-29-2012 10:06 AMDarkeequation
You should look at some of the special addition releases of ALIEN and maybe read the book. Talk to some of the people here that are mods on this site, they have lots of good info.
I'm only trying to enlighten you on how ALIEN influenced Promtheus. If you had read the ALIEN book and read the original script or even seen some special features on ALIEN you would know what I"m referring to.
No I'm not attacking you, nor do I wish to. Only trying to clear up misinformation.
Acidforblood
MemberOvomorphMay-29-2012 10:07 AMAnd Sorry if you don't send people of science ..who do you want to send...the ghostbusters?
Gavin
MemberTrilobiteMay-29-2012 10:07 AMActually the beginning of AVP shows the previous rite of passage hunt in 1904, the footage showing Predators being worshipped as gods, having taught us technology and order doesnt appear until halfway through the film.
that said i do agree there are a lot of parallels between the two, but I'm not too concerned - Independence Day borrowed very heavily from War of the Worlds, but fails in comparison.
Drakeequation
MemberOvomorphMay-29-2012 10:08 AM@Acidforblood, even if the mining crew was woken up by the corporation that has nothing to do with the main story structure elements I outlined. If the discussion seems dumb to you it is because you are not reading what the discussion is really about. I did not say that corporation sends team to investigate Alien structure is unique to AVP, I said that a team of scientists, mercs, and dying Weyland with a hidden agenda is unique to both AVP and Prometheus.
Drakeequation
MemberOvomorphMay-29-2012 10:11 AM@ Snorkelbottom I liked ID4 way better than War of the World. There is something about the combination of Tom Cruise killing Tim Robbins and the constant screams of Dakota Fanning that annoyed me.
Drakeequation
MemberOvomorphMay-29-2012 10:14 AM@ Acidforblood I didn't say scientists, I said scientists in conjunction with a dying Weyland and his merc squad. I meant that combination of people is found in both films. You cannot take apart a premise and assume that it stands without the other elements.
SaintsSinphony
MemberOvomorphMay-29-2012 10:12 AMhttp://www.amazon.com/Alien-Vault-Definitive-Story-Making/dp/0760341125
this is a great book Darkeequation it shows a lot of the original ideas
I"m just trying to expand your knowledge of the ALIEN universe. Seems you are well versed in AVP but maybe not in some other areas. I'm just trying to help.
ShinobiX9X
MemberOvomorphMay-29-2012 10:20 AMTo be honest, AVP looked more like a computer game. Good action no story.
I hope this gives a good story. The only thing i wonder, why do they want to exterminate us? Will that really stay unanswered?
Gavin
MemberTrilobiteMay-29-2012 10:22 AM@ Drakeequation - i was referring to the book, but anyways you get my point. Its not what you do, its how you do it.
SaintsSinphony
MemberOvomorphMay-29-2012 10:25 AMShinobiX9X
it is explained
I don't want to post how on here because it's not in the spoiler section
EDIT
got confused where I was at
David speaks to the engineer and he says something to the extent that to create us they have to destroy us also. We (humans) seem to be part of some larger plan. Also, Shaw and David leave to find out what this plan is so yes, the engineers created us and the purpose will hopefully be full revealed in another movie.
Drakeequation
MemberOvomorphMay-29-2012 10:28 AM@ SaintsSinphony I read all the spoilers and it is not really explained why they want to exterminate us. At the end of the film Shaw is flying to the Engineer homeworld hoping to find out why they want to destroy us. And this thread is in the spoiler section.
SaintsSinphony
MemberOvomorphMay-29-2012 10:28 AMyes SNORK that explains it well
(like your new(er) icon BTW wouldn't you have loved trent to do the soundtrack? I would have hearing "The Becoming" somewhere in the film would be awesome)
Gavin
MemberTrilobiteMay-29-2012 10:37 AM@ Saints - Trent Reznors music would def suit both the Alien franchise and the Terminator franchise.
Drakeequation
MemberOvomorphMay-29-2012 10:42 AMThe Alien vs AVP argument aside, it seems that when Ridley Scott said this was a new movie with only faint trace elements of Alien he was lying. The film seems to follow the story structure used in other Alien films almost exactly (especially AVP in my opinion). And by this, I mean the skeleton structure of the story like where certain conflicts arise where the surprises are and even the members composing the group. This is not the high-brow science fiction epic that will tackle the big issues but only use the big issues as a backdrop for the monster movie that is its core.
Gavin
MemberTrilobiteMay-29-2012 10:53 AMOne problem...
A lot of people, having read the wiki plot and the spoilers are pre-empting their opinion of the film. Imagine if a reviewer did the same, basing their review of a film on leaked information rather than actually watching the film.
Yes, i agree that on the face of thing it seems that no new ground is covered, but how can you compare a 200 word summary to a 2 hour film. You can't. the plot summary for Alien on wiki reads just like any other B movie made in the 50's, and although Alien is essentially a B movie, it was done as an A movie, and the film WAY surpasses its simple, overused premise, and ultimately stands miles above any of them.
In other words... Wait till you've actually seen the film before passing judgment.
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