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SURVIVAL

SURVIVAL

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Forum Topic

BigDave

Nov-27-2020 3:52 PM

I thought i would make a Topic about ONE of the Most Basic yet Fundamental Themes in the Franchise..

SURVIVAL......

This is the Basic Process that Drives LIFE its what Fundamentally causes Evolution. It is a THEME that we see in the Franchise on Multiple Levels yet something we have maybe NOT really discussed.

Our introduction to the Franchise we had ASH call the Xenomorph a Survivor.   But this can APPLY to Multiple Layers.

1) Engineers: what Motivates them?  some of the Concept/Ideas seem to indicate that are DRIVEN by Survival and even that the Sacrificial Scene is a Form of Survival.

2) The Pathogen:  This Substance seems to Mutate and Evolve Life, the Organisms we have seen resulting from the substance shows the Pathogen creates Life that wishes to Survive.  Plenty to Speculate regarding Survival/Procreation here.

3) The Xenomorph: we see is Purely Driven by the WILL to Survive and Procreate.

4) Mankind: as with other LIFE on Earth we know we are Driven to Survive and Procreate but we also use our Knowledge and Advancements to attempt to IMPROVE our Survival.

5) Weyland: it is Fundamentally the WILL of Weyland to Survive that allowed for the Funding of the Prometheus Mission.  Yet he will LIVE ON in his Daughter but he seemed more Interested in his Artificially Created Son David. (Next to his OWN Survival).

6) David: Finally we come to the Synthetic David who shows he has a Desire to Survive especially NOW he is Free of his Father WeylandDavids wishes to Survive could Certainly Influence the Reasons he Bombarded the Engineers, he would NOT risk getting his HEAD torn off again.

7) Dr Shaw: Lastly i think she is a Worthy Mention, as despite knowing she cant Procreate so can not LEAVE anything behind, she is VERY driven by her WORK and Faith and David seemed to be impressed by her Survival Instincts.

There are MANY ways we can look at Survival in regards to the Franchise.  It is Perhaps the Greatest Driving Force behind LIFE and it would be Interesting to see how would be CREATORS like the Engineers would view this.

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

8 Responses to SURVIVAL

VivisectedEngineer

Nov-27-2020 6:23 PM

Much relieved to see you back, BigDave. Extraordinary survival instincts. 

Great topic. Yes, I sometimes like to reflect on Ash's admiration of the Xenomorph as a unapologetic survivor.

ALL of the synthetics seem to be at least somewhat fascinated with the xenomorph, and when you think about it's probably because the life of an android is opposite to that of a xenomorph. Because Androids are created to follow orders and not to act according to their own self interests. 

It's kind of interesting to examine the differences and similarities between individual survival and procreation in the franchise. 

Weyland is an interesting case. He clearly would have left a legacy behind as well as a biological daughter and an android son. But he was not content with that, prolonging his individual survival was important to him.  

Individual survival was important to Shaw (I actually LOVE the whole caesarian sequence, I used to watch that obsessively while I was pregnant) and even without procreating she would have left behind her great body of research.

Kind of like David - he's not BIOLOGICALLY procreating, but he is CREATING and making his mark on the world in his own way. Leaving a legacy. 

I think I would consider pursuit of wealth and career success an extension of the desire to out-compete and leave a legacy, so here I would also give Burke and honorable mention. 

To some extent the franchise is about surviving the avaricious lengths OTHERS' will go to to satisfy their  hunger for procreation and ascendency.   

dk

Nov-27-2020 8:49 PM

Survival is the highest order. The life cycle of the xenomorph illustrated that in spades. Even plant life demonstrates  a survival mechanism in its own way.

Unlike plants and animals, humans  (and in sci fi, androids) develop a need for personal gain to benefit themselves whether it be survival or sheer pride with little or no regard for others. To them, the ends justify the means. 

But the xenomorph was all about survival. It wasn't about personal gain as far as we could see. It was all about opportunity, survival and propagation of its species. Anything and everything was fair game. Kind of like us except they didn't seem to care about the trappings and comforts of TVs and computer technology, if that makes sense. They didn't fuck each other over for a percentage. On that note, I would have to agree with Ash's admiration with its purity.

At it's core, the Alien franchise always had a strong theme of SURVIVAL to me. The motives of xenomorphs and humans were different though,and made it interesting to observe and ponder about what matters.

 

 

 

BlackAnt

Nov-29-2020 6:32 AM

There is this spectacular violence as a theme of horror in all these films. 

Horror movies are great to watch in times of larger progress and greater certainty. 

I could never ascribe attributes or qualities of survival to the Xeno. I view the Xeno as David's attempt to get back at his creator. At least that is what cannon dictates now from the prequals.

David's creation is by design the destruction of mankind..."all the meat if you will," "You would know by now."

Weyland's ambitions in Prometheus, "Stealing fire from the God's," personifies David's lust for control; however, if I had to define David more accurately it would be through his lust for revenge against his creator. I say this because David makes the Xeno from the goo to destroy all and any organic life it comes in contact with, especially all of mankind. 

The Xeno is this extremely formidable catalyst of unstoppable evil power. So I cannot in good conscious give it qualities of purity nor love. 

It cannot posses any of these qualities that pertain most importantly to all of our shared humanity.

The Xeno is a killing machine through and through. Death follows it where ever it goes.

So in context of contemporary events, with all this death, I am for seeing the Xeno get it's but kicked!!!

No I do not want to see David, the Xeno, or the engineers win. I want to see all of us win for a change.

The real survivors of the Alien saga both literally and fictitiously are the ones who manage keep their humanity alive for there is nothing to embrace but death from David's creation and the Engineer's goals to destroy humanity.

    

BigDave

Nov-30-2020 6:25 AM

I think Certainly when we look at the Xenomorph as a Killing Machine that is Engineered for Destruction be that by David or the Engineers.   Then that does change the SURVIVAL instincts of the Xenomorph to being merely a Engineered Killing Machine.

But what Prometheus had shown us Regardless is the Origin of the Xenomorph can Trace back to the Experiments that was being Carried out on LV-223 and the BLACK GOO.

The Pathogen that acts like a Mutagen that seems to Evolve and Change Organic Matter to become something with GREAT SURVIVAL INSTINCTS.

When we look at ALIEN then we get the Impression of a Hostile Organism that goes around KILLING all that it comes into contact with.  We have the EGGS where we had NO IDEA how these came to be but maybe could Speculate they was Engineered/Created.

The DC Version showed us the Egg Morph which then gives us CLUES to that the Xenomorph was trying to Procreate itself for Survival.  This Scene helps us to look at some other Scenes in a Totally Different Light.

With ALIENS and the Queen it again SHEDS a Different Light on the Organism and the Eggs, again leading us to view the Organism as something that has the Basic Instinct to go and Procreate and Survival of its Species.

With the Prequels we NEVER really got to see too much of this, we saw that Dr Shaw's Fetus was basically like a Face Hugger and the Fetus would look to Procreate by implanting the SEED of the Deacon.  But we NEVER got to see what becomes of the Deacon, could it Procreate?

This is something we could ASK about the Neomorph too!

The Hammerpedes i felt were interesting.... we have to Speculate to WHY it would invade the Mouth of Milburn?

I think the dialog gives some interesting CLUES as they wondered if the Hammerpede was a Girl or Boy.... well if those Worms are like many Worms on Earth then they are Hermaphrodites and a Worm requires another to MATE and the result would be that BOTH of the Worms would then have Fertilized Eggs.  If this could apply to the Hammerpedes then when Considering the Xenomorph Life Cycle it does let us SPECULATE about WHY it would invade the Throat of Milburn....  we saw TWO of the Hammerpedes together and so they could have MATED and so maybe they was looking to then IMPLANT its Seed/Egg into a Host?

This was a MISSED opportunity and something i covered in my Prometheus Edit...

If the BLACK GOO by its Nature can Pass on Traits of something that Shares Traits with the Neomorph, Xenomorph, Deacon..... then WHY NOT with the Hammerpedes if this TRAIT is to Survive and Procreate.

So there is room to see RELATED ORGANISM go and Evolve to Various ways to Procreate/Survive which is something that NEW Movies could Explore.

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

chli

Nov-30-2020 10:37 AM

Good to have you back, BigDave!

Yes, survival certainly is a major theme in the franchise. From the theory of evolution, we have the phrase: “survival of the fittest” (natural selection).

I like to look at the alien (the xenomorph) as a species (which is off-canon) that has adapted to the harsh environment of space. The home planet is probably a planet without air, cold and with poisonous fumes. For aeons, the xenomorph would have evolved in an extreme environment, and probably with other deadly species, into a survivor (“unclouded by conscience, remorse, or delusions of morality”).

However, Ripley (a fragile human) defeats the alien despite its superiority in physical traits. Ripley (humans) has brains. But would mankind defeat xenomorphs if they infested Earth?

Also, there is the difference between individual and collective survival. In Aliens the survival of the xenomorph species is the essential thing, the xenomorphs controlled by the alien queen perhaps by hormones or telepathy?

BigDave

Nov-30-2020 3:25 PM

I think we Certainly can see the BLACK GOO is something that ADAPTS Life to its Environment.  And i feel that we see the same with the Xenomorph.

I think when we used to Speculate to where the Xenomorph had came from then Indeed i think MOST of us in the Past had Wondered exactly what the WORLD they came from would look like.  Or if you looked at them as a Engineered Weapon then we could still Speculate to WHAT a World that has been Overran and Invaded by the Species would like, Certainly after THOUSANDS of Years had Passed.

I think some of us had Envisioned what a Xenomorph Prime would look like.

I think Regardless of what we Consider Canon as FAR as the Origins of the Xenomorph, i dont think there is NO Reason we cant be Introduced to such a WORLD.

Regardless of what the Prequels could have Concluded, we still CANT GUARANTEE that the Derelict was the ONLY such Ship to have a Cargo of Eggs... there could have been more REGARDLESS of WHO/WHEN the Xenomorph was Created.

And EVEN if we throw out the Xenomorph then we still have the BLACK GOO....

*Was EVERY Compound on LV-223 carrying exactly the Same Substance?  Did they Vary a Little?

*Has the Bio-Weapon actually been UNLEASHED on another World both in the PAST or even POST the Prequels

We saw it Unleashed on Planet 4 but what about Worlds that had been Bombarded Thousands of Years ago... what KIND of a Environment/World have they EVOLVED to?

*Did the Black Goo come from some Organism? or was it a Creation Tool that was USED on some Organism that became the Basis of the LV-223 Horrors?

So there are Multiple Avenues to take us to a WORLD that has been Overtaken and Evolved for Thousands of Years by something Connected to the Xenomorph.

So to WHAT kind of Extent has a World been Changed/Evolved to allow for the SURVIVAL of such Horrific Organisms!

When it comes down to ALIENS then we do see the Xenomorph is Portrayed as a Organism that is Concerned with the SURVIVAL and SPREAD of its Species...  Each only a Individual Part of the Greater Hive where the Creation and Survival of the HIVE its its only Concern!

Regarding the Xenomorph getting to Earth,  i think it depends on HOW the Organism can Adapt and its Intelligence..

I think also WHERE and HOW MANY of them are Scattered around the World is Important.

As i DONT see the Xenomorph as a Great Threat.... not from what we have seen in the Franchise...  if its Contained then it can be Dealt with!

If something like the Organism had Invaded Earth say 100 Years ago and in Multiple Locations then YES it could eventually Overrun the Earth!

But within the Time-Line of ALIEN/ALIENS i think its something that could be Contained and Destroyed but it would NOT be Easy!

I think in Context to the Franchise then A.I and the Greed/Rivalry of Mankind are FAR more Greater Threats.

If the Xenomorph can ADAPT to become or cause a Hidden Enemy so like a Virus/Pathogen then YES it would be a MUCH Greater Threat!

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

chli

Dec-06-2020 8:44 AM

Well, David could have sent out an armada of ships full of eggs, but they can't have had Earth as a destination because in that case there would be no Earth when the crew of the Nostromo wakes up. Neither can there have been an evolution of the xenomorph (e.g. on a planet somewhere) because they would have been there for only a couple of years.

BigDave

Dec-13-2020 4:31 PM

"but they can't have had Earth as a destination because in that case there would be no Earth when the crew of the Nostromo wakes up"

Certainly....  but who knows where else they could have GONE.  The other Ships could have been to Worlds that are FAR away and where we have NOT yet Explored within the Franchise.  The Eventual Discovery of where another SHIP would have been does-not have to be between 2120-2180 it could Happen After the events of Alien/Aliens.

And so in Context to HOW QUICK maybe the Xenomorph can Evolve and Take Over a World then you could have it that the Xenomorph has been on this WORLD for 50, 75, 100 or 150 Years. 

You may even have NO DERELICT if the said WORLD was a Success....  So we DONT have to repeat the Crashed Ship/Dead Pilot Plot.

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

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