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In defence of alien covenant...

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Timmy the ultramorph

ChestbursterMember559 XPMar-18-2018 10:57 PM

I found this video recently and I think that it is a pretty good defence of alien covenant as being a good movie. enjoy:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YIftf6S3hvI

 

food ain't that bad! - Parker

25 Responses to In defence of alien covenant...

ali81

NeomorphMember1823 XPMar-19-2018 2:30 AM

sorry timmy, there is no defence imo lol just my opinion tho

MU/TH/UR 9000

OvomorphMember69 XPMar-19-2018 4:40 AM

Movies are subjective, what appeals to one person may not appeal to another. I love Alien: Covenant and I am in a group of 2,500 people on fb who like it for different reasons...

YUTANI | ALIEN | AI | ROBOTICS | SCI-FI | TECHNOLOGY | https://yutani.blog/2018/06/21/news-disney-fox-acquisition-episode-12-yutani-podcast/

ali81

NeomorphMember1823 XPMar-19-2018 4:57 AM

very true. I wanted to love AC so much. haven't looked forward to a film as much as I did AC but for me personally, other than the look of the beasts and scenery, it sucked.

MonsterZero

XenomorphMember1140 XPMar-19-2018 8:24 AM

AC will be considered a classic in 20 years.....especially when the first artificial intelligence comes online in the 2040's...people will acknowledge just how right Ridley was...70 years ahead of the curve! 

I've enjoyed Alien3 for the last 26 years...didn't have to wait 20 years to finally understand and enjoy it.

Alien:R is the same way....I imagine that movie will start to to pick up support and 'suddenly' be come a misunderstood classic!! lol

 

Alien:Covenant is like a 50's b-movie to me: 'Space colonists looking for a new home are attacked by a mad scientist and his space monsters!!'

What's not to like!

 

 

ignorantGuy

ChestbursterMember894 XPMar-19-2018 9:27 AM

MonsterZero

2040s - 2010s = 70 years? Are you taking into account Ash? Was he supposed to have free will in '79? And how do you define artificial intelligence? Conscious robots acting as human, capable of understanding language, capable of "creating"? That will never happen in the near future. We don't understand human consciousness so how do you expect we could simulate them? Do you even understand what today is called AI and how it works? 

And Ridley ahead of the curve? What about the medieval rabbi who invented the golem myth, which inspired Capek brothers to invent the robot term, who inspired Asimov, who inspired Philip K Dick, and Arthur C larke and Kubrick, and final there is also Ridley, who sincerely did not bring absolutely nothing to the table.

And if it becomes a cult movie in the future good for those involved, but don't say that those don't enjoy it don't understand it, as if there is a hidden depth to it that only a selected cabal can access. Right.

Thoughts_Dreams

XenomorphMember1471 XPMar-19-2018 10:40 AM

I have watched that one before and art is subjective. Alien Covenant to me is still an underwhelming movie. Sure people can try to defend it but there are probably people that try to defend Alien Resurrection too. There are parts of it that are OK but it fails as a whole because of the lack of character building and too much focus on the androids.

MonsterZero: About AR, please no. It is not misunderstood, it is kind of bad. They got it right with Alien 1-3 but that movie is where it started to get worse.

MonsterZero

XenomorphMember1140 XPMar-19-2018 1:11 PM

ignorantGuy

Yeah, Ash and Blade Runner. Only really talking Alien movies...certainly not literature.

 

Lawrence of Arabia

ChestbursterMember936 XPMar-19-2018 1:19 PM

I saw this before and he hits the nail on the head. Alien Covenant is a lot more faithful to the original than what people give it credit for and it's a shame.

"The trick, William Potter, is not minding that it hurts."

ali81

NeomorphMember1823 XPMar-19-2018 11:49 PM

I totally understand AC and it has no effect on my feelings towards the movie. visually its another Ridley beaut but other than that its horrible. AR was a good popcorn movie and an understandable next stage in the franchise. AC for me hasn't really done anything for the franchise. all I saw was a fill in movie to get David his hosts/ lab rats, nothing more. im hopeful for Awakening I really am but expecting nothing ''Ridley Scott'' quality. it looks to be leading to completely trashing the mystery of the derelict and making it all about David when the whole reason RS got involved again with the franchise was to explore who the dude in the pilots chair was and his relationship with the eggs. now its about a synthetic madman whos responsible for it all? nah, ill stick with the originals and Prometheus if that's the case and wait for someone new to reboot AC and Awakening

Lawrence of Arabia

ChestbursterMember936 XPMar-20-2018 8:33 AM

ali81 Well, for me, it propelled the A.I. subplots of the franchise to the spotlight, solidifying their contribution to the universe instead of just being a sci-fi gimmick. It made the rest of those subplots cohesive (it explains why Call and Bishop are so fascinated by the beast and partly explains Weyland-Yutani's motives for obtaining the creature as they see it their property). It also explained why the beast was bioengineered and who did it, what Paradise is like, the stages of evolution (from Deacon to Neomorph to Proto-Xenomorph) and edges us ever closer to the famed Derelict on LV-426. The Space Jockey is still the main point of the prequels but I'm glad the narrative isn't super straightforward, you need to tell David's story to tell the SJs. It also continues the Creator/Rebellion narrative set-up by Prometheus.

"The trick, William Potter, is not minding that it hurts."

Svanya

PraetorianAdmin4297 XPMar-20-2018 11:26 AM

Yesss, that video is excellent! I had seen it back in January or February, i'm so glad someone finally posted it here. 

Ati

PraetorianMember3378 XPMar-20-2018 2:11 PM

Indeed. Finally now and two hundred topics before...

Patrick Explains ALIEN: COVENANT - And Why It's Great:

//www.alien-covenant.com/topic/47359

 

dk

TrilobiteMember8207 XPMar-20-2018 11:23 PM

Ati I had forgotten about this video and now remember that thread. It is nice to see it re visited. It's tough to argue with Patrick.

Thoughts_Dreams IMO, it really isn't about defending a movie- it's more justifying why it is good. I think there is a difference. For AR, it is understandable why fans would not like it, but it also had some disturbing dark scenes in its own ways that the Trilogy had not done. The caged Aliens beat down of the weakest and Ripley 8 finding the other seven iterations of herself were pretty brutal and heavy. Just my two cents.

ali81

NeomorphMember1823 XPMar-20-2018 11:37 PM

Lawrence, I understand where ur coming from regarding the AI subplot. I love the subplot of the company being secretly run by synthetics etc but these AI subplots can be shown without making it all about David. when I watch alien and it gets to the derelict scene, I want the mystery. I want its history to be alien and ancient to us. if it going to be revealed then make it alien to us, not something one of our creations is responsible for as for me, that takes something away from the possible wonders that could have been attached and explored through the journey of discovery such as the possibility of an engineer civil war or an engineer uprising against their higher power and where the original form of the xeno fell into the mix. this is more interesting imo than just 'oh, the android did it'.

I don't see the connection between bishop and call and their relevant interests in the beast. bishop was fascinated by its simplicity and admired it for that, as being around humans had shown him that we complicated even the most minor of issues whereas the xeno isn't interested in politics, religion etc and only interested in the continuation of its species. and I wouldn't say call is fascinated in the beast. she wants to wipe them out and doesn't show any signs of fascination with it.

again, I love the backstory regarding the company and their dastardly attempts at gaining the xeno for themselves but personally, I want more alien stuff. new species of monster AND sentient beings such as the engineers. I want to know and see more of them but so far theyv been completely moth balled. we know they created a pathogen..... the rest is theory. we know nothing of their true culture and if there is a higher power and we have had 2 films already.

SuperAlien

XenomorphMember1299 XPMar-21-2018 1:58 AM

Patrick is right about Alien Covenant. About Prometheus too.

Thanks for sharing this Timmy the ultramorph

"He survived, he’s now in Disneyland in Orlando, and no way am I going back there. How did he end up in Disneyland? I saw him in Disneyland, Jesus Christ!"

Timba Prime

OvomorphMember12 XPMar-21-2018 9:12 AM

I personnaly think that Alien Ressurection is better/more appealing than Alien Covenant. First, because i had much lower expectations for AR than for AC, second the characters of AR are significantly better than those of AC and third i find the crazziness of Jeunet much more entertaining than the visual mastery of Ridley Scott.

Some scenes in AR such as when Ripley find out the seven other clones, or when Ripley coldly tell to the guy what he has and how he will die or the way the chest bursting of the same guy was filmed  are priceless.
I don't see any really priceless scene or character in AC.

Alien Covenant had a lot of potential which was incredibly wasted. It is insane all the things they could have done with the engineers from describing a world imprinted by their civilization and technology, to flash backs giving us an overview of both their culture and technology. Many items of Giger art could have been used for this purpose.

Now regarding the Xenomorph it is much better as either a creation of the Engineers or an ancient species way more sinister than what we could imagine.
The xenomorph is often described as a perfect organism supposedly able to rampage whole worlds.
Yet, we have yet to see anything in any movie up to now which can justify such a reputation !
Alien Covenant could have featured a flash back scene showing how powerful a fully developped/mature xenomorph can be. Because we have just see young xenomorphs up to now.

 

dk

TrilobiteMember8207 XPMar-21-2018 12:32 PM

It is nice to see AR get some credit. We discussed it in a few threads last year. Here is one if interested:

http://www.scified.com/topic/43048

 

hox

FacehuggerMember416 XPMar-21-2018 1:49 PM

It's nice to know I'm a clever clogs. Because I've always loved Alien Covenant!

Apart from the Xeno vision. We could have done without that.

ali81

NeomorphMember1823 XPMar-21-2018 11:28 PM

yea I never liked the way the xeno sees explained in either of the movies it was shown in. best left a mystery imo

dk

TrilobiteMember8207 XPMar-21-2018 11:32 PM

Agree- best left a mystery. It looked pretty much how we see and it felt tacked on. A3 did a better job with the fish eye view.

Thoughts_Dreams

XenomorphMember1471 XPMar-28-2018 7:44 AM

Ali81: That is understandable, it was too much about David. The next one will probably be good visually but I expect nothing as far as the characters are concerned although I hope that they will be better.

Hopefully they will keep some mystery about the derelict, that would be nice.

dk

TrilobiteMember8207 XPMar-29-2018 10:25 PM

Thoughts_Dreams I have mixed feelings about David. AC went away from where I would have liked things to go but was also the mysterious creepiness that was intriguing and was enjoyable. 

The derelict should remain a mystery. Explaining everything about it would likely invite fans arguing why and how the explanation doesn't make sense. Besides, things can never be explained enough for some.

Hopefully the movie will return to the Alien vibe in that there is a small crew, we actually see less gore and if/when characters die those deaths mean something and carry some weight- instead of someone getting clipped in the jaw by a neo tail in a quarter of a second during a fast, chaotic panic scene. Also, some scenes with very little dialog could work. Sometimes showing the environment and exploration can do all the talking by itself.

Michelle Johnston

ChestbursterMember732 XPMar-31-2018 10:48 AM

A very entertaining treatise on the movie. I think he is very good at articulating the positive view of the movie without at all investing it with far more weight and significance than is justified, put simply he does not project on to it more than is justified.

The two elephants in the room are :-

1) He dismisses Prometheus for all the reasons I to know it is weak but equally ignores why it is entirely wonderful.

2) In reverse he entirely ignores the main critique of Alien Covenant which it reduces the mythos and the story and the wonderful investment made in the mythos and Elizabeth Shaw in Prometheus.

For David to be the space jockey and Weyland-Yutani having been taken over in the intervening years by A I is a limiting view.

For the Engineers to be discovered as offering a mechanical view of creation who suffered a Paradise Lost which W-Y, taken over by a sub created mechanical construct, were trying to control and fail, but where only the greatest elements of mankind's qualities which involve the gift of christ like sacrifice can overcome would have been an astonishingly large canvas in which to place the Xenomorph making it greater and more significant than some wet dream of a robot.

To begin with the acolyte sacrifice which kickstarted, the sacrifice of the pilot and finish with Ellen Ripley sacrifice all of which entwine the notion of mechanical creation and the transcendent quality of soul would have been extra ordinary.

Ridley is taking the ALIEN series and making it the poor mans Bladerunner.            

 

 

Chris

DeaconAdmin19090 XPMay-04-2021 1:44 PM

After 4 years, I find myself liking Alien: Covenant more and more. Those that said it would grow on us over time were absolutely right.

BigDave

TrilobiteMember9800 XPMay-05-2021 5:14 AM

I think the Problem for me is that the CHANGE of a PLOT to make the Sequels to Prometheus become a Prequel that will EVENTUALLY arrive to the Derelict as far as WHEN/HOW/WHY.

And more so they FELT to HOW do you have a Sequel with ONLY a single HUMAN.... so they had the NEED to give us the Covenant Colony Mission and as we are 17-18 Years prior to ALIEN then this meant a LOT had to be Sacrificed as FAR as Screen Time to the Engineers, Dr Shaw and Ultimately the Xenomorph too.

Things had to be MOVED at a Fast Pace, where Character Development had Suffered and Accelerated Xenomorph Life-Cycle was Needed.

When you look at the PLOT A-Z of the Movie then i dont think its so BAD, the David Creator does make Sense when you look at the THEMES of Prometheus.... 

But the PLOT A-Z is something that when your FORCED to try and make it near 2 Hours instead of 3 Hours then you have to CUT CORNERS, and THROW AWAY some Stuff and you cant have Detailed/Lengthy Scenes to SLOW the Pace Down.

As soon as ROSEY when to Clean her Wounds.... and we saw the Neomorph then KILL her..

The Movie went into FAST FORWARDS MODE!

If they had it that ORAM did not Chest Burst, but awoken and could NOT remember what Happened and he was Dragged Out to be Rescued....  with the 2ND Neomorph being the ONE that would KILL Crew Member Cole.

And Oram would be shown to Chest Burst on the Covenant and we had a extra 30-40 Min Running Time then i think the Movie would have been Improved a Little.

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

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