Alien Movie Universe

Bryan Fuller Is Not a Huge Fan of Alien Covenant

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Ati

MemberPraetorianOct-23-2017 6:51 PM

“I think the last two movies have had too many similarities to bad Friday the 13th sequels and not enough similarities to good Alien movies,” Fuller said. He clarified that Prometheus and Covenant were “so masterfully executed on a technical level, gorgeously composed and produced,” but his frustrations come down to one fundamental issue: “really smart characters doing really stupid things.”

Fuller also had a bone to pick with the chest-bursting scene in Covenant. “So, you see this chest-burster [in Alien] and how disturbing and snakelike it is, and then the other chest-burster in Alien: Covenant is just [a baby alien] standing up,” he laughed. “It’s like, He has good posture.

Growing up on a diet of Fangoria magazine, movie novelizations, and the elusive photo novels, Fuller said that the original Alien inspired his future path. While taking an experimental psychology course in school, he wrote a case study about Alien, which dissected “the penis-headed monster” and “the dissolution of family.”

“My instructor said, ‘You don’t belong here, you need to go to film school,’” Fuller recalled.

/Bryan Fuller/

http://www.vulture.com/2017/05/bryan-fuller-is-not-a-huge-fan-of-alien-covenant.html

So what do you think about Fuller's opinion? Only Alien Covenant contains dumb decisions in the Alien Universe? 

21 Replies

BigDave

MemberDeaconOct-24-2017 8:02 AM

I would have to say very Valid Points...

Some Stupid things are needed to pass along a Plot Device however...

I would say the Nostromos Plan to deal with the Xenomorph had flaws...   And letting a infected Crew on-board was SILLY... but in Alien it was a Masterpiece of writing as we see while Ripley wanted to Safeguard Quarantine Protocols...  ASH who was latter revealed to be a Android with a Inside Mission (Special Order 937) had let the infected Crewman on-board for the whole Agenda or his SO 937 Objective.

Aliens is also not without its own flaws as far as risks taken against precautions but again it was not as poorly handled as the Bad Errors of Judgement/Precaution shown in Prometheus and Alien Covenant.

The Chest Buster again a good point, it looked a bit silly, like the Xenomorph was copying David, and i know this upset a number of FANS...   But ultimately i looked at this Scene as a way to showcase that David was the Creator..

The Chest Buster was operated like a Rod Puppet... and in the movie it appeared to copy David just as if he was operating the Xenomorph as a Puppet and i think the AIM was EXACTLY this.. so we see that David was the PUPPET MASTER of his Creation so to speak.

Thats how i interpret this scene...  which if that is the case, i can understand the reason for it, but in hindsight it did not look right and left questions about how come latter Xenomorphs do not look the same way i.e like minature versions of the Adults.

This would fit in well if David was simply Evolving the Engineers Creation, or if David had Evolved his Creation and so previous ones looked more like the 1979 Xenomorphs (there is even the classic Egg and Chest Buster in some of Davids works in the Lab).. but i think this again was a error of judgement by those working on the movie.. and maybe these were only intended as Easter Eggs..

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

hox

MemberFacehuggerOct-24-2017 8:11 AM

I disagree with Bryan Fuller's assessment. There is little evidence of smart people doing dumb things in Covenant. Everything is done for a reason. In fact, in this movie they really went out of their way to ensure that actions were based on logic. Rosie going off to get her head chomped off, for instance. Dumb? Or in fact someone who had put their trust in the comforting words of an advanced robot?

Anyway, Bryan is hardly one to speak. His endless Hannibal episodes were almost interminably drawn out and repetitive.

Lawrence of Arabia

MemberChestbursterOct-24-2017 8:23 AM

I don't see the big deal about the chestburster. It looked disturbing either way it's just a different shape. I mean, seeing the chestburster evolve from Nymph to baby adult, unfolding with gory detail, was just as disturbing imo. The mimicry of David was a display of intelligence and a moment between creator/creation.

“I think the last two movies have had too many similarities to bad Friday the 13th sequels and not enough similarities to good Alien movies,” Fuller said. He clarified that Prometheus and Covenant were “so masterfully executed on a technical level, gorgeously composed and produced,” but his frustrations come down to one fundamental issue: “really smart characters doing really stupid things.”

I don't understand the Friday the 13th comment since the plots of both films are extremely similar to the first two Alien films. I mean, I get the character logic comment (not really) but these characters aren't aware they are in an Alien movie, have never encountered anything like this, and they are like this on purpose as metaphors for humanity's hubris and illogicality (which is the case in every Alien film). Plus if they were "smart", they wouldn't be in these situations or be killed for our viewing pleasure. Fear is also a big factor as well as it distorts logic.

"The trick, William Potter, is not minding that it hurts."

Lawrence of Arabia

MemberChestbursterOct-24-2017 8:26 AM

hox

Everyone forgets this for Rosie's actions. They act like she just ran off willy nilly but she asked David if they were safe and he said perfectly to which he ended with "Make yourselves at home, as much as you are able, in this dire necropolis.". Even when she went to clean up, after telling everyone she would, she had her gun unholstered.

"The trick, William Potter, is not minding that it hurts."

SuperAlien

MemberXenomorphOct-24-2017 8:52 AM

Ati at first I thought Joylitt posted this thread. Are you switching sides?

"He survived, he’s now in Disneyland in Orlando, and no way am I going back there. How did he end up in Disneyland? I saw him in Disneyland, Jesus Christ!"

Ati

MemberPraetorianOct-24-2017 10:11 AM

daliens - I am on the side of a breathtaking Alien Covenant sequel.

As for Fuller, I do like the Hannibal series he created, but I think his statements/complaints about Covenant are too general. I don't agree with him when he says that in the movie smart characters do stupid things. If it is true, it should refer to other Alien movies as well.

I wanted to know what you think about his opinion, that's all.

SuperAlien

MemberXenomorphOct-24-2017 10:36 AM

Ati

You picked the right picture for the thread, as always.

 

"He survived, he’s now in Disneyland in Orlando, and no way am I going back there. How did he end up in Disneyland? I saw him in Disneyland, Jesus Christ!"

Ati

MemberPraetorianOct-24-2017 10:58 AM

daliens - No extra intention behind the Fuller photo used in the topic.

It is taken from the original article on vulture.com. I added the link to the source in the topic as well. Please visit the site and read the original article, you'll find the same picture there, thank you:

http://www.vulture.com/2017/05/bryan-fuller-is-not-a-huge-fan-of-alien-covenant.html

Ati

MemberPraetorianOct-24-2017 11:58 AM

I totally agree with Lawrence of Arabia  here:

'have never encountered anything like this, and they are like this on purpose as metaphors for humanity's hubris and illogicality (which is the case in every Alien film).'

Thoughts_Dreams

MemberNeomorphOct-25-2017 7:53 AM

AC deserves a lot of criticism but it isn't as if they did everything wrong, I got to be fair and say that. There are things that I like about the movie but there are also things that I dislike about AR but that isn't to say that it is a good movie in general. One thing that AC does better than AR is the surroundings, no competition, and also there are no lame jokes (“were you expecting Santa Claus?” brr!!).

The characters are what I have most of the problems with, that goes for both AC and Prometheus. I agree what he says about the stupid things.

Yes the chest burster (I guess he means the one that was from Oram) was dumb. The way that David was like a puppet master for the Alien looked silly as F, totally embarrassing. Perhaps they had a point with that but it still looked dumb.

I can forget some stupid decisions in Alien movies of they make sense withing the story or if the characters are likable in general and that it doesn't happen too often but when you have a movie with one mistake after another and very few sympathetic characters then it becomes a problem. One thing that I can forgive using the line of thinking as I explained was like Big Dave said when they got the infected guy on-board the Nostromo. They didn't even know that Ash had his instructions.

Having David as someone that re-creates what the Engineers did could be alright but to make him the creator of the original monster would suck. It would make the franchise laughable and boring, especially if it comes from a prequel series of mostly badly written human characters.

Lawrence of Arabia

MemberChestbursterOct-25-2017 8:16 AM

"Thoughts_Dreams

They didn't even know that Ash had his instructions."

That's besides the point, Lambert and Dallas insisted that Ripley let them on board and afterwards scolded her for her actions. Even if Ash had his mission, that's breaking quarantine willingly. Other stupid actions include splitting up to find Jonesy while looking for the Alien, Dallas letting Ash do what he wants despite breaking the rules, going in the ducts alone, again looking for Jonesy while they are suppose to be evacuating, and Lambert in general. The reason they do these things though is because they are human and capable of being irrational due to fear just like in Prometheus/Covenant. The prequels are meant as a metaphor for our hubris and illogicality and the characters are written like natural human beings in these situations not characters from a sitcom for our enjoyment. These are cautionary tales.

"The trick, William Potter, is not minding that it hurts."

Thoughts_Dreams

MemberNeomorphOct-25-2017 8:42 AM

"That's besides the point, Lambert and Dallas insisted that Ripley let them on board and afterwards scolded her for her actions. Even if Ash had his mission, that's breaking quarantine willingly. "

Maybe that but it is still an important part of the story (that they didn't know about its instructions). Even if Ripley wouldn't have said that then maybe Ash would have found out another way to get the monster on the ship.

It mentions dumb decisions in the thread so therefore that could be an example depending on how you look at it so therefore it deserves to be mentioned in this thread.

Lawrence of Arabia

MemberChestbursterOct-25-2017 9:03 AM

Thoughts_Dreams

It's important to the story, yes, but it was still "stupid" on their part regardless. The human characters throughout the saga have made "dumb" decisions like this but now it's such a big deal because some don't like where the narrative is heading so they cherry pick details.

"The trick, William Potter, is not minding that it hurts."

Thoughts_Dreams

MemberNeomorphOct-25-2017 9:17 AM

“It's important to the story, yes, but it was still "stupid" on their part regardless. The human characters throughout the saga have made "dumb" decisions like this but now it's such a big deal because some don't like where the narrative is heading so they cherry pick details.“

Fair enough, I can forgive some stupid decisions if they are not too many and if the characters for the most part are likable or well done but they are not in AC and Prometheus. This is why I have a bigger issue with things like that in AC and Prometheus because they lack good human characters. It is not important if it is supposed to be about David the issue is that it makes me disappointed if they don't have well done human characters.

Lawrence of Arabia

MemberChestbursterOct-25-2017 1:16 PM

Thoughts_Dreams

These prequels, and Alien in general, are Lovecraftian horror which means they will be anti-antropocentrism or misanthropic in general. Lovecraft's works tend not to focus on characterization of humans, in line with his view of humanity's insignificant place in the universe which is in line with the message of these films. So if you're expecting a likable cast of characters you will be disappointed.

"The trick, William Potter, is not minding that it hurts."

I.Raptus

ModeratorPraetorianOct-25-2017 2:18 PM

I think Oram's chestburster and its reaction to David was an attempt at showing David imprinting himself on the juvenile Xenomorph. We see him trying a similar approach to assert himself to the creatures when he and Oram encounter the Neomorph. Perhaps this is a precursor to what his goals are in Awakening - to build himself a loyal xenomorph army.

The problem with the chestburster imprinting is that the Xenomorph is a parasitic 'pest' species - a so-called R-strategist with highly mobile and independent young. With rapid maturity and growth rate there is little need for the parental imprinting and bonding often associated with species that have very dependant young (Altrical species)

I like the idea though.

Thoughts_Dreams

MemberNeomorphOct-29-2017 2:19 AM

“These prequels, and Alien in general, are Lovecraftian horror which means they will be anti-antropocentrism or misanthropic in general.  Lovecraft's works tend not to focus on  characterization  of humans, in line with his view of humanity's insignificant place in the universe which is in line with the message of these films. So if you're expecting a likable cast of characters you will be disappointed.”

Then how did Alien 1, 2, and 3 manage to get the characters right but not the rest if they were not centered on the human part? Sorry but I don't buy that. In one way they might have said that mankind is a small part of the universe but they were still focused on the human characters and made them important to the story (1-4). It was the human adventure or what ever to call it that was important in the first 4 alien movies.

Up until Alien 4 they got many characters right and I would also say that the humans were important in AR. When they did Resurrection they started to fail with the humans for some reason.

I can easily remember likable or interesting characters from Alien 1-3 but I don't find many of those in AR and the prequels (which is not to say that they don't exist).

Maybe they said that humanity is just a small part in the universe but that is not to say that they are focused on AI, that is your wish rather than an actual fact even though AI was an important part. It wasn't up until they made Prometheus that the exaggerated the role of AI and hence reduced the human part. The movies until then had been about the human side even if you wish that they were about AI but to me they are not. In no way did the Alien movies before Prometheus spend that much time on robots so Alien has never been centered on AI and humans have always until Prometheus been more important than robots.

Your argument might hold for AC and Prometheus, but not for the rest. Because the prequels have failed with the human characters this far and have focused too much on AI they are a disappointment.

 

Lawrence of Arabia

MemberChestbursterOct-29-2017 1:07 PM

Thoughts_Dreams

The only characters that mattered in the original saga was Ripley, everyone else were side characters that barely had development. Some were likable, yes, but not the main course. The reason those were a bit more heavy though is because that was Ripley's (a human) story. These prequels are David's and will focus on his viewpoint. Never did I say that the A.I. were the main focus of Alien or that it was the case for the originals but they have served an integral role throughout. Please, open your mind just a tad to new experiences because that is what Ridley is doing instead of retreading. We got the hero story, now it's time for a villain. The humans in Prometheus and Covenant are fine because, like the original Alien, they were their just to be torn to pieces and we didn't need to know anything about their backgrounds, plus they serve their purpose in the mythos that is unfolding. That's not to say they aren't important and that there weren't any likable characters.

"The trick, William Potter, is not minding that it hurts."

Lawrence of Arabia

MemberChestbursterOct-29-2017 1:36 PM

Also, the only one you can make an argument for is Aliens, which has a few likable characters, as Alien 79 only had 3 likable characters (Brett, Parker, and Ripley) out of 8 and Alien 3 was infamous for not having any supposedly. Even then these characters were barely fleshed out aside from a select few.

"The trick, William Potter, is not minding that it hurts."

Thoughts_Dreams

MemberNeomorphNov-02-2017 8:27 AM

Lawrence of Arabia

You can claim that the only one that mattered was Ripley and that everyone else were side characters never the less though I think that they did well with those characters and that they were a lot better than those in the prequels this far. They are still likable after all these years and feel like more interesting characters than most of those from Prometheus and AC combined. I could feel something and see myself in parts in the characters while most of the characters in the prequels are of the type that I can seldom see myself in them.

Exactly it was about the human story, not AI's. When they changed the focus to AI it became boring.

You said that they were not based on human characters in general (“anti-antropocentrism or misanthropic”, you wrote that) then you wrote about Ripley. They were still about the human story which makes them a lot better.

I don't care if it is about David, I find the focus on AI boring. I need well-done human characters to have an interest in movies like this. New movies and new perspectives can be good, it depends on how you do it. They have failed with the alien prequels this far because the focus on androids do not interest me.

The humans in Prometheus and Covenant are not fine, most of them are under-developed. I find the humans in Alien 1-3 to be alright but I can not accept it the way it is now when humans get pushed into the background in favor for a perspective which I don't find interesting (it could have been if they would have interesting human characters).

Alien 3, I disagree about that. Likable, maybe not but at least they were interesting. I liked Ripley and Clemens in A3 and found some of the prisoners interesting (the religious leader Dillon, and some more). Most of the characters in the alien prequels this far have not been good or interesting just “meh”.

“Even then these characters were barely fleshed out aside from a select few.”

At least they were made interesting enough to feel something for them. The Alien prequels have failed with that this far and to me it doesn't matter if it is supposed to be David's story, I just find it to be a disappointment.

“Please, open your mind just a tad to new experiences because that is what Ridley is doing instead of retreading.”

I have tried, I have thought about the movies (Alien prequels) and they are still disappointments to me.

ali81

MemberNeomorphNov-04-2017 2:16 PM

u want dumbass decisions in an alien movie just watch AR.

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