Engineers Vs. Humanoids?10,207 Views20 RepliesAdd A Reply
if you look at the engineer at the beginning of Prometheus, you will notice his greek titan looks with no similarities to the Alien itself. More the perfect human.
Now look at the end of Prometheus and the distinct difference in their looks. You think it´s just a space suit? look closer. The suit is clearly apart of his body. He is bio-mechanical now in nature. If that was the product of the combination of a suit and the black substance is unclear to how they merged biology with technology but he is definitely more like a Borg from Star Trek now.
My question, are the engineers nothing else as humanoids created in their creators image like David 8 is to the humans?
The theory goes even deeper. Do they have females and are able to reproduce themselves? if not, then similar to Stargate SG1 (Asgards) they could be clones or humanoids, that are slowly degenerating down to extinction where they use other means to create life. If they are similar to humans and even more evolved, they will do the same steps we would do and worse to sustain survival.
I thought the play with artificial life, superficial life and basic life to be a very cool combination they are mingling with. There are many hints from Blade Runner in Prometheus to show barriers and similarities to the themes mentioned
There's a belief that there are two separate factions at war with each other.The ones seen at the beginning of the film are a more pure race while the one at the end of the film is one that split of and began the experiments.Along with a potential Xenomorph outbreak,the pyramid facility on LV-223 seems to have come under attack.The idea of a separate faction with different beliefs that split off is Reminiscent of Revelation Space.
Nothing the God of biomechanics wouldn't let you in heaven for
i know, they took that assumption since they are using Lost Paradise from John Milton to influence the next alien movies plot :-) but if its true that there are fallen angels and devils fighting against each other, 1 to 1 like Miltons story i doubt it. We already saw that in Gods Army movie :-) but you never know, the rogue group is quite possible.
Just like the notion that they found the substance and turned evil once in possesion so they are not the kind natured ones from the beginning of the tale.
Another one is that they hate mankind for killing a engineer 2000 years ago as to be Jesus Christ and that since then, they changed their behavior towards us :-)
I dont know where to start with this Topic.... i guess its best to go right from the Start.
Originally indeed these Engineers was all related, they are just a Advanced and Ancient Alien Humanoid Race, who had played a role in the creation and evolution of Mankind, the interactions with Mankind over and over many thousands of years is what leads to many cultures interpretations of Gods and Tales of Gods and Religions.
We had the Elders a very much older looking version of the Engineers, old and frail, these beings was all the same though and its just that the Engineers Aged at a Natural rate of about 100% Slower than a Human.
This would not mean that their young age slower, so that a 5 year Old Human, would be a 4-5000 year old Engineer who would look the same as a Child..
We dont know how they evolve from young age, maybe we wont never be shown, but i would assume they would Mature and grown fast... then when reached Adult Stage then they would Age a lot slower than Mankind.
And yes the idea was these beings would have had Females at One Point, but as they Advanced over Millions of years, they found other methods to Procreate, maybe they advanced also so they would live for longer.
If Mankind continues to Evolve and Provided it does not destroy the Earth from War, or as a result of our Pollution and Over growing Population. It would be safe to assume in 5-10 thousands years we could have cracked ways to cure most ilnesses and desisease, ability to regrow genetic material to heal none fatal wounds and injuries.... we would no doubt be able to Engineer Babies to have as Perfect DNA and even then go past the need to even Procreate by Sex.... we could create New Children even in the Lab...
It would not be beyond the realms of possibility that in 10 thousand years we could Populate our species with out the need for Sex or maybe even Sexual Organs... we could create offspring from Cloning.... and even guess by then we could speed up the process of how a Baby Grows to a Adult to be much quicker.... and then even extend our natural lives beyond 80-100 years.
This was what the Engineers had done, they evolved so far that eventually Evolution may have then prevented them from Procreating Natural at some point in time.
Meaning they now had to look at other methods.
This is what i think the Engineers were..... but things have changed a lot since that.
R.I.P Sox 01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017
Ridley had then during the process on Spaights drafts, had then considered the Engineers as Fallen Angels... which would indicate some War and Rebellion.
And this theme was the background for the movie, and what evolved with Lindeloffs drafts.... its a tale of Creation, and Rebellion.
God creates Angels, some Angels Rebel, God Creates Man, and Man becomes Rebelious too.... right to Man creates Androids and we see they are showing signs of Rebelion.
Its a theme that is in many cultures and not just Biblical, its a theme we see with the Anunnaki and the Rebelion of their servant lower caste the Igigi and also Greek Mythos, Titans Rebelled against their Father, it was Cronus who led this Rebellion to kill his Father, then Cronus was concerned that his own creation/children would Rebel against him and so he Ate them all but Zues was hidden from him. So we then see the Children of the Titans the Olympians with the aid of a betraying Titan Prometheus, they over throw their Hierarchy and now the Olympians Rule.
Prometheus would once again betray the top of the Hierarchy (now the Olympians) in favor of taking sides with their creations Mankind...
And so it goes on and on....
This is the broad story they are telling, Mankind was scheduled for destruction not only because we showed signs of not behaving in ways they intended and we was rebellious and becoming more Sentient to our own Agenda than to Worship our Creations.
The Engineers thus feared and knew in time that Mankind could potentially overthrow them.... a fear that in the Greek Mythos Cronus had... because he had done so himself, and then Zues also had the same fears because he had done the same too.
And indeed the Engineers was correct.... Mankind Advanced, we traveled the Stars, we created our own Life in our image (David) we was able to find the Engineers Place of LV-223 and then we would also find Paradise... and our Creation the Androids could read their Lanquage and use their Technology and the ULTIMATE FEAR... could come true...
Once Mankind can use the Technology and have the Knowledge of the Engineers..... then WE WOULD BE THE GODS NOW
The Hubris for such a Action however.... is that Actually the risk is that our creations the Androids could become the GODS this is a theme we have seen in many movies included I-Robot, Terminator and The Matrix..... their is every chance the Earth in the Alien Universe could one day be overthrown by their own Creations too.
R.I.P Sox 01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017
I will expand upon this in context to Prometheus and the angle that has changed to a degree....
Ridley has since refereed to the Fallen Angels and Paradise Lost Tale a number of times, it fits with the previous Post.... Its a Tale of Creator, Creates and allows Creation a bit to much Free-will and they Rebel and overthrow (or attempt) to overthrow and disobey the rule of their creators.
We dont know how Literal this would be...
But for those Engineers to be Fallen Angels would imply they had fallen out with a Faction of their own who are not so Fallen, by Fallen a section of these Engineers or maybe their whole Race has decided to disobey and rebel against their own Hierarchy be that the Elders of their kind... or even another Race who created them.
Ridley Scott said about the Elders Scene and its removal that they never wanted to MEET GOD in the first movie... This means our Sacrificial Engineer and LV-223 Engineers are not GOD
They was also disappointed in how the Engineer Elders came across and looked... they was not as Godlike as they hoped for
This means one of THREE Things... which could be the combination of these.
1) Elders are a Ancient older caste of Engineers, they are the Hierarchy and they are pretty much like how in some cultures like Mayan/Inca and Native Indians and indeed others, where the Oldest and Wisest of their Tribes are the Leaders and the ones who make the decisions.
And so indeed some of the Younger Engineers felt why should they serve these Elders, and maybe saw it was their time... like a Prince in Waiting for his Father the King to pass on, so they can now become the KING
2) Their Hierarchy is based of the same Race as the Engineers but a certain selection of them are deemed the Godlike rulers, much as in how Ancient Egypt was and the Pharaohs
But again a selection of Engineers decided why should they be ruled by these beings when they are really no different.
3) The Engineers are a sub-creation and they are not the same as the Hierarchy so we are looking at Gods relation to the Angels, like the Annunaki to the Igigi etc.
I think at First Originally the idea was Number 1 but this did not mean that a Number 3 could not be above them (Number 1)
Why even Number 2 could be at play with either 1 or 3 or all 3 of them.
But ultimately Number 3 is at bigger play
But again this could have multiple Levels.... so indeed the Engineers could be creation of something else and in-turn the Engineers Creators are created by Something else and so on and so on.
R.I.P Sox 01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017
I will leave it at that for now... but later i can touch upon the Technology and then the Bio-Weapons.
But the Technology in a Nutshell is just a Advanced Biological Suit, its like when we wear a Fur Coat or Crocodile Skin Boots or Snake Skin Coats, these items of Clothing are worn by us but they never function to our bodies like they did the bodies of the Creatures we have taken them from.
But if we evolved a Technology to make Fur Suits that when Worn they fuse with our bodies and in essence would be the same as a Gorilla and its Fur rather than a Person who wears a Fur Coat.
R.I.P Sox 01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017
Good stuff. One of the tenets of the Annunaki was the Godly faction led by Enki who was ordered to manage the planet earth and oversee mining (gold). I am sure you are tracking this story so I won't bother to discuss it here. The bottom line is his faction nurtured humanity and prevented their ultimate destruction (by the Great Flood) to the expense of enraging his sky-father EA and brother ENLIL.
I think this is right on schedule...
Indeed loosely yes suwhited a lot of Mythos is connected loosely it borrows and expands upon a number of themes from various Mythos etc and some connected to each other.
its so ambigious as to what way to go and explore these things, its a stumbling block that i indeed could not get a ONE Solid Theory to run with and then use for my Prometheus 2 Draft. So i canceled it.... i think this is why they have had to do so many Re-writes with Prometheus 2 until they backed themselves into a Corner and John Logan came in to try and re-write themselves out of it in a more simple way.
I had a Source in February 2015 who claimed to have knowledge of Prometheus 2...... there clues they gave had driven me to a certain possible route...
I think the Annunaki Tale could be this route in part...
And i think indeed going this route would simplify things.
Lets just propose what if the GOLD was not Gold as in the Metal but in terms of the Franchise... the Toil for Gold or Gold Itself is replaced with something else thats either More Sinister, or leads to more Sinister Things.
The Eitr in Norse Mythos could loosely tie to it too, if we consider a connection between Black Goo (or Sacrificial) Gold, and Eitr
R.I.P Sox 01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017
Fair enough. Instead of mining for gold which was intended to line their Ionosphere and thereby save their species, what if they were looking for genetic material? What if they were looking for some combination of DNA/RNA that could save their own genetic make-up (which may have come to a dead-end)?
What if the black goo is an element of the DNA that could kick start their own genetic destiny back into high gear. To this end they are experimenting in many forms and means.
To them, the end justifies the means. Or they don't care. What matters is their genetic destiny as a race.
Tree of Life?
This could be the ticket.
Big Dave always delivers
Yessir!!!! He goes big or not at all!
it is a pressure suit as confirmed by ridley scott himself, not a part of them physically.
link please for Ridley mentioning the pressure suit? the suit itself could be put on and off but if you look at their backs, throats and arms you will see that they are directly inner connected from the suit to their flesh. They even have gills now on their necks and are able to breath outside which humans cannot and i believe there is more than just a plump pressure suit. sry but i don´t buy it. Their eyes have now even changed from blue to black. They are consumed by the black goo in some way, at least they have that sinister childish look of innocence like David does.
if there were two seperate factions like in John Miltons Lost Paradise and other influences they used to make a science fiction plot have the religious aspects and themes of old stories, where rogues go against their masters to then henceforth always wanting to overthrow your own master, like David 8 said:"We all want our parents dead". Then it could be that the huge space jockey we see in Alien 1 is another part of the engineers race, one are smaller but the bad rogues and the bigger dudes are the good guys :-) or as you mentioned the elders and the safrificial engineer are the good ones and the ones in the suits are the militant bad rogues. It´s great stuff and so open to debate, love it :-) great ideas guys and Big Dave, wow that was quite detailed. Read already all those theories. Its a shame that i have the gut feeling alot of the mysteries will never be answered, only subtley shown. Like in Lost tv show. Many answers stay unanswered
ridley scott talking in the blu ray extra disc of prometheus. hes chatting with the designers on the look of the engineers and theyr suits. he states to them that they r wearing pressure suits when chatting about how they r going to do the flight suit
if he didn't want people to have the impression it was a suit then it wouldn't be in the extras disc. ill take what comes out the mouth of the man himself over anyone else
Look i saw that part on the Blu Ray and even if they are chatting about a pressure suit they are in, they never go into specifics of how its attached to them and why differences occur like the mentioned Gills and how the suit looks like its part of their skin. Since HR Giger biggest dream was to have beings that are bio-mechanical in nature, i do believe even if its only for their looks that they thought about it, i mean come on which sci-fi fan doesnt think while working with the space jockeys about bio-mechanical technologies. And noted i did mean from the beginning that it is a suit but one they can never lay off again once your in it. it becomes a part of you with help of the catalyst. its plain science xD
It's a pressure suit and it does indeed look like it is fused to the engineers body. However, there is no evidence that it is fused to his body.
In 'The Art of the Film Prometheus' there is no mention that it is fused to his body. It is just described as a Pressure Suit.
In the do***entary 'The Furious Gods' there is also no mention of it being fused to his body.
I do for one really love the idea of him/engineer (space jockey) being fused with a bio-mechanical protection suit.
The poster was good though!
If I remember correctly,in do***entary "The furious Gods" the making of Prometheus,some guy said that the Engineers have 2 types of suit.One is the iconic "atmospheric" suit that they wear while piloting the aircrafts and other things,and the second one is the pressure suit that has some purpose with hypersleep chambers and provides the Engineers good protection as we've seen it withstood hi-tech shootgun.
Again,nowhere was mentioed that the pressure suit was "fused" to the body.Maybe they didn't want to explain it,to keep it a mystery.