David's Army?

@ali81

Indeed that scene looks a bit odd if we are to consider it the result of the Black Goo....

To me it looks more like a Ancient Sodom and Gomorrah and if you refer to my previous post.... then maybe indeed those beings at the Top of the Chain could have laid down Punishment on those on Paradise again in the past?

I think its a Flash Back Scene but who knows.... i think if we dont see much about Engineers, i do hope that in future through David we can get some Narrative to what happened, and maybe Flash Backs to describe this visually.

Who knows where its going... a lot of the debated i have had and indeed what i have put here are in some ways ideas i had, but a lot has been influenced by the Source i had in February 2015 who apparently had information on the then Prometheus 2 Project... this is prior to what ever Changes John Logan had made in the Summer of 2015

One problem I have is we assume this is the home world of the Engineers but they could have many worlds. They are going back to were these ships left. It could be a bigger military base.

We could also see the damage done to this world was already done by the Engineers that were on LV-223. I still think we have two factions. The makers and destroyers. I don't believe David killed off the entire Engineer race.

I believe people are giving David way too much credit about the down fall of this new world. There could even be more Engineers left on LV-223 that woke up after the ship took off with David and Shaw which could also lead into another sequel. How they are looking for revenge on what happened to the last Engineer.

The Engineers got mad at us for a reason and I hope we find out why.

And indeed thats the problem we have, the problem i had when working on a draft and indeed problems Fox and Ridley had and why so many re-writes.  There really is a lot of ways it can all tie in together, but its hard to do justice without contradicting things or potential plot holes.

Its certainly open to debate which way they could have gone, and then wonder which way will they go with it.

I think Fox maybe released its a can of worms they opened and backed themselves into corner, and the reaction to Promehues compared to that for Blomkamps Alien 5, has me worried they feel they need to tone down the Engineers and give us Xenos.

But they will leave clues, so that if Fans then start to get upset at the lack of answers with regards to Engineers and LV-223 and if they feel they done enough Fan-Service to the Alien Fans who was not keen on Prometheus or Engineers, then maybe they can think of a way to explain it to us in the next movie after Alien Covenant?

When i was trying to work out how to connect it all in my draft, i had a hard time i was thinking how do i connect many Mythos, how do i connect Biblical connections and such... as well they was there... but loosely and to be considered as such.

Paradise Lost was referenced for the next movie, and the Prometheus Mythos was applied loosely in the first movie.. and i was thinking how can you connect it all but then the Xeno too?

I was thinking of different cultures and one was the Anunnaki which is regarded as the first well oldest civilized mankind accounts of Gods... and i was thinking how could this work?

We maybe have to interchange things and consider in context to Prometheus that the Biblical God can not be taken as GOD, but as many the head of a Faction of Gods. that the Biblical God was indeed one of the Gods, who came to Earth with his lower caste of Godlike beings the Angels.

Then we can start to put this together with other mythos.. so we have.

God, Titans, Anunnaki for example... so we then thus have.

Angels, Olympians and Igigi

But i was wondering the same as i break God down into being not The GOD, but one of The Gods...  then i thought are the Engineers thus Olympians? or are they the Titans and thus the Gods as in context to GOD in the Bible are the higher cast of Old Titans well the deities before them so Uranus 

And trying to do it justice and fit was hard.... i was going to be not literal....

Until i started to get information from the Source i had and take that on board and i have a rough idea now, but is it right? a lot depends if the Source was right though.

But i think they was pushing me to the route of the Anunnaki tale as being  a tale based off the Engineers Origins and every Myth and Religion after was a re-telling and different interpretation.

The Source seemed to point towards this.

We have a Superior Being, Race that require something, some purpose that will equate to the GOLD but we cant take it literally as Gold, but something that is of great importance and need, that to obtain is too much of a Toil for these Gods.

They created a lesser caste of beings in their Image, to take over this purpose for the greater cause of these Gods... These sub-created lesser caste of beings Rebelled and overthrew their creators much like we see with Fallen Angels and Olympian Gods and in context to the Annunaki these sub-created beings are the Igigi.

I think this is maybe where Engineers fit?

Due to the Rebellion of the Igigi, the Annunaki created Mankind to then proceed and take over this Toil...   The source hints a bit different to the Annunaki tale... vaguely as they seem to tease maybe the Annunaki did not create Mankind, but the Igigi did to replace them for their Toil.... but this was against their creators wishes and they got punished.

I dont know if the Source hinted the Engineers was the rebels against their creators.. but then they could be but it does not mean all Engineers rebelled.  just some and they was punished.

Source seems to tease as they are vague that.

The Engineers/Igigi either created Mankind then got found out.

Or those above the Engineers created Mankind, but then some Engineers then took some of us and then started to try and get us to subjugate under them after they overthrew or attempted to overthrow their creators... and they got caught out.

The Source hinted the Engineers was just as David is to us, and so just for a purpose to make some role for their creators more easy.

They hint that The Agenda for why we was created and Agenda of Engineers creation is Sinister and Dark. Shaw would find out about this and it would be so horrific and different to what role she thought we would be created for.

This leads me to think of the GOLD, and could then the Gold be something to do with the Black Goo, well Sacrificial Goo as in how its obtained or indeed that Engineers was needed for its purpose?

This is what the Source seemed to hint towards, and i think it could fit.

They also teased that Mankind had been to that system before (LV-223) and that Mankind is like 4th or 5th Generation and previous Generations had been wiped out before and to look at Mankind as not evolved from Apes but that Engineers came before us in that chain.

That Biblical Events had happened, but not in direct context to being towards our current Generation, and so they are to me teasing that Mankind evolved from Engineers and Mankind indeed or our Ancestors came from Paradise.

Seems to hint to me that maybe Paradise is just as Ancient Earth was,  and Earth was basically another attempt, or re-creation by those on Paradise or whos role was to watch over the creation on Paradise.

So the beings on Paradise are involved in some sinsister Ritual Purpose... maybe the Temple Ziggurats on Paradise are Landing Platforms some Race above those beings on Paradise come to collect Sacrifices, in return these beings are nurtured and taught knowledge to build Temples and Cloth themselves but never to a level they can advance beyond what Mankind on Earth could thousands of years ago.

This would explain the lack of Technology, and so those beings either rebelled or some did and was kicked out of Paradise, or those beings who created them had rebelled and created Mankind?

I think maybe Mankind was created for the same purpose, and so some Race above those beings on Paradise who indeed have sinister needs for those beings on Paradise and Mankind.

Basically talking mixing the Annunaki Tale, with Prometheus Mythos and Biblical Fallen Angels to paint a picture as above.

Where the GOLD is some Sinister Agenda, connected to the Sacrificial Go as far as obtain it or Sacrifices it requires.

This is where i now believe the Story was going...

But what its like now who knows... i think they can go this route, and have those beings on Paradise simply dead, and explained as above in some Sinister role and leave it so that next movie we can find out who are behind this Sinister Role.

David is the next in this line of Hierarchy, he was created by Mankind for a Purpose... but he has rebelled and now wishes to play God and create himself.

But they will leave clues, so that if Fans then start to get upset at the lack of answers with regards to Engineers and LV-223 and if they feel they done enough Fan-Service to the Alien Fans who was not keen on Prometheus or Engineers, then maybe they can think of a way to explain it to us in the next movie after Alien Covenant?

BigDave, that would be a clever solution by them, don't you think? Plus, that's why I think they gave up Alien 5. I can't imagine that A3 and AR will be deleted from the canon line. 

Thanks for input BigDave and the wonderful sense of humor lol.Ati i agree, 3 and Resurrection should be kept as canon.If they chopped them,then Alien would become just as confused as Terminator,but that's of topic.

nin, I can't tell if it's good or not, or they should be kept or not, just I have the feeling that the very clever people at Fox made up their mind some weeks ago regarding the script of the future...

I will say this Prometheus has done It's job. People still talk about it today and it saved the franchise.

Now if Alien Covenant does It's job we are off like a comet , I really how we get the shock and awe treatment. Like Big Dave said if we are unhappy with the lack of answers about then Engineers or lack of them we might get them in the next sequel.

So far I am loving this community of alien fans!

Well i think if you was FOX, and you worried the reaction to Prometheus was low because of lack of Answers and no Xenos and it was not Alieny...

Maybe Fox wanted to proceed with a not so Alieny sequel where we could get more explanation for Engineers and Agenda and in this we get more Xeno clues with out having to have Xenos but something different, or maybe even not have much Alieny Organisms at all... but i think the Black Goo would have to be touched upon.

Then came Blomkamps Alien 5 and Fox may have seen the positive reaction and seemed indeed a lot seemed more upbeat on this than following Shaw and her disappointment about these Bald Headed Engineers no being Gods but now she wanted her answers Face to Face...

Nope a Alien 5 was getting a lot of interest, Fans could see a better end for Ripley, we have Ripley again all the old favorites who was killed off at the start of Alien 3...  we will see the company has finally got a Derelict, we see Xeno experiments, maybe a Egg Morph.. a Queen.. a different kind of Xeno and Egg and then Ripley in some Engineers Bad Ass Space Suit.

What more could Fans ask for?

And so i think Fox

a) wanted to see Alien 5 as it could make money, but have to maybe change few things that conflict with Prometheus 2

b) decided they had to give more Alien clues in a Prometheus 2 sequel and fans not to interested in Shaw and her Quest, but wanted Xenos and so maybe by giving more clues now, would allow Alien 5 to go ahead after and not have to tread carefully to spoil any Alien Origins or how they connect to Engineers or where is any Engineers and Technology now... after Aliens.

Plus show us Xenomorphs..

And these are why i feel we got the re-write by Logan, its why Ridley is coming in now from the rear end... I feel thus Alien Covenant is the sequel to what ever they had first planned.

It will leave a few clues to what happened between Prometheus and then... but keep some mystery..

They can then gauge by Fans reactions, if a Sequel needs to answer Prometheus Questions and Engineers, or if Fans seem to not be bothered and well are wanting even more Xenos.

its a wise move if this is the case..

Please the Alien Fan boys enough now, tease a bit more to those Prometheus fans.

So that maybe the next movie can cater for Prometheus fans or more to Alien fans, but tease in the Engineers.

So that by the time Alien Covenant and its sequels are done, Alien Fanboys will get their fix and enough actions and still have a bit of mystery and they then will finally ask.

So how did those Engineers play a role in this, whats their history...

And so then a set of movies to go into that can be made, to then please Prometheus fans.

This is what i think is happening and i can understand why.

I just posted this to the Trilobite thread, then realized it was probably more relevant to this discussion. So here it is:

Not quite sure if this has been discussed here but I thought it may be worth mentioning. Either myself or someone on another thread had posited some time ago that David may have been left with no choice but to expose Shaw to black goo in order to save her from life threatening injuries. I'd take this a step further with the following premise:

Let us imagine Shaw does in fact continue to produce trilobites. If others are correct in their speculations on David deeply caring for Shaw, then perhaps it is the case that as she continued to produce trilobites, David had to remove them to save her. On realizing she was not going to stop producing, he set her up with a makeshift configuration to keep her alive while allowing for fast and easy removal of the trilobites as they were produced. In essence, David turns Shaw into a factory but with the pure intention of saving her life and easily containing each new trilobite.

As each one is produced, David naturally begins studying them and eventually experimenting. It is maybe the entire reason David has become this mad scientist in the first place. Except he is not mad, he is only trying to preserve his companion and following the investigative tendencies of his which were established in Prometheus. The trilobite(s) as a threat to Shaw as well as David's loyalty to her (if he is) may end up being the reason for everything that follows the story of Prometheus.

As far as Alien 3 and Alien R canon if Alien 5 happened.

I think its like they said, its a Fork in the Road.

its like Alien happened, then Aliens and then Alien 3 and Alien R

But they offer a.... WHAT IF... after Aliens this happens instead.

So fans can then choose which Story they like the best, or even like both but that  Alien 3 and Alien R are one alternative path after Aliens and Alien 5 and no doubt 6 if 5 was a hit would be another alternative path.

Thats how i see the way that was going... so Alien 3 would be canon, but so would Alien 5

BULL ALIEN:It may not be the engineer home world But an engineer home world none the less 

Alien 5 of course is a bit if.Ati,can you elaborate a little more on what you meant by script of the future?

Did a reply but had power cut on PC.

So i will try and remember...

Prometheus had shown us that David may have had some compassion but then it depends if its down to his Agenda, he appeared to treat Shaw different maybe only because as he was self ware and sentient, then being in two halves is no way he wants to live his life he is not a straight up Robot... he has feelings and no doubt he is not content with being stuck as a headless corpse.

But he needs Shaws help, without her thats all he would be, and she knows without him that she would not be going no place.

David proposes a offer, he can get her home but she does not want to go home, she wants to go to where the Engineers came from for answers.... David is puzzled and wants to know why and why it matters.

The alternative version Shaw says because David is a F-in Robot... we have to ask how would he feel about that, what a insult and he can tell Shaws pissed of....  this also lead to Shaw being upset at David for being a naughty boy and would open up the debate.... how offended was David and how much will he now want to help?   And how much will Shaw trust him.

So the Theatrical Shot made more sense to give us a sense that these Two Characters maybe can settle their differences and get along... so that we dont have to ask questions like ... How upset is David at that comment and would he now double cross her and then how much freedom would Shaw give David or trust.

Its set up now that there is some trust, Shaw has no choice but maybe she can as David is persuasive?

So indeed we have to ask how does this apply QueenElizabethShaw to your post?

Well its a case of how much compassion does David have for Shaw, would he be like the Nature Boy Song and would he be more caring if he felt Shaw would show him more respect? and Care in turn?

I think what you said is good, as far as her being used for a Birthing Machine, but i dont think it would be under good intentions...

Would David want to use Shaw for his Agenda and Questions? i am sure he would have loved to had seen first hand the results of that Pregnancy etc.

If David is more compassionate, and Shaw treats him ok, but then indeed she is infected and David tries to help but he know she will continue to create off spring then David would realize she is beyond help,  but why kill her... put her out of her misery?

There would in this case be nothing for her... but then it would allow David to may-as well use her for his own Ends and Curiosity.

it would be like stranded on a island and your Dog passed away and do you bury it? or would it provide you with a Food Source thats in short supply?

Its a question thats not easy, but imagine if you only met the Dog for a few days... would you feel as attached to bury it, or use its dead body for your benefit now?

So i think maybe this would be the stance David would have to take if Shaw was to be constantly infected.

nin, that is nothing extra, it means everything they are going to do, what kind of films they produce, importance of the projects, financial planning, etc - For instance, what the next step is if A:C is successful, and so on...

Okay thank you Ati.Yeah I've wondered if they have plans for a cinematic universe.

BigDave

"If David is more compassionate, and Shaw treats him ok, but then indeed she is infected and David tries to help but he know she will continue to create off spring then David would realize she is beyond help,  but why kill her... put her out of her misery?

There would in this case be nothing for her... but then it would allow David to may-as well use her for his own Ends and Curiosity."

This is exactly what I'm getting at. It would fit very well with how David handled his discovery of Shaw's pregnancy in Prometheus. I should have specified that this is only how I imagine we might see the scenario unfolding at first, but I also believe that if this is the case, David's compassion for her could easily fade over the years as he becomes more focused on his research. It might even be the case that she perhaps could die early on in this state, leaving him with nothing but the specimens he was able to retrieve from her and his research.

I believe that we will either see this scenario, or one where he is fully aware from the start and betrays her. We'll have to wait and see to discover what the true outcome will be but I'm thinking these two are the most probable.

I'll toss in a related but somewhat off-topic side note here. If the "compassion leading to opportunity" scenario is the case, I could see a likelihood that Walter might eventually be revealed to share in Ash's role as purely an instrument of Weyland-Yutani's to satisfy it's ends. A kind of built in curve ball where we are set up in the first half of the film to mistrust David and perceive him as evil, only to have this assumption turned on it's head when Walter switches over to the company agenda and David stands in defense of the Covenant crew. If this were the case and it was done well, we may enjoy the privilege of seeing a stand-off between Walter and David, complete with an epic dialogue (loaded with philosophic undertones) just prior to the two coming to blows.

IMO this would be far more interesting than a scenario where David is playing a twisted god and Walter is programmed to prioritize the crew above all else.