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Shaw is hard as nails, so it'll be fine.
some interesting points....
And this is where the Deleted Scenes add to why Shaw wants to go to Paradise... makes much more sense as the Deletes Scenes show the Engineers can be comunicated with and could potentially hold a conversation.
The way Fox intended us to see the Engineers and the way the theatrical release depicts them makes less sense for Shaw to go there apart from she has nothing else to lose and chances are the could just rip her head off as soon as they touch down.
R.I.P Sox 01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017
But as far as the nuts and bolts go, well for some what we may get is not quite what they expect.
Remember Prometheus was to be a prequel of sorts to Alien, where it was expected we would see what Race was behind that Pilot Seat of the Derelict (but did not have to be that exact same Space Jockey or his Story) And we did get this, ok the scale of the Engineers was a failure...
The other aspect was that we would be shown what connection these beings have with our Alien Xenomorph, now some may had expected to be shown how they came to be and where they was from, and what happened on the Derelict.... But at very least we should have got some information on the connection, even if it never meant seeing Xenomorphs running around.
And we did get a vague connection and that connection was that some how there was a connection between the Engineers/Space Jockey and the Xeno, but we knew there was one anyway.... just we still dont get what the connection really is apart from as a Bio Weapon.
So what i am saying is that we will know the back story to Paradise but as far as details we dont know if we would get quite the level we wanted or answers and i expect Paradise to answer some questions with yet even more questions and ambiguity.
THE BARE BONES...
The Bare Bones of the Story would be Shaw and Davids mission to Paradise i am sure thats where they will go, and Shaw would want to seek out these Engineers and ask them why was we created? why did they want us destroyed? And why did they create LV 223 and the experiments on there and yet seem to leave us clues to go there.
She also has a firm beleaf in God still, as she found these Engineers are just advanced and ancient mortal beings so she ponders.... who created them.
I think these will be answered but in how much detail, we just cant be sure...
There are a lot of tricky plot incontinuities in the franchise, such as why Weyland corp kind of had some idea about the Organism as Ash knew a bit by the time Nostramo landed on LV 426 and surely if they found the Engineer SOS/Warning well surely they would have detected Shaws and also would they not have wanted to find out what became of Prometheus and dont forget LV 223 still has many other Jugernaught ships, and maybe Temples and still has a fair share of Urn/Ampoule Cargo and we now have Hammerpedes and a Deacon lose on the surface...
why go to LV 426, when LV 223 has more reward?
And also if they go to Paradise and these beings are not benevolent as Ridley Hints, what is left of their society, did they order our destruction and the creation of LV 223 or for it to be turned into a Bio Weapon Testing and Creation Facility? If so how come they never checked on the outcome of the mission? If they wanted us destroyed then why had they not come to finish of the job.
Did they know about our intended destruction, did they know about our creation....
You see those things above are things that need a answer and need them lose ends tied up before the franchise completes and thus leads us to Alien.
R.I.P Sox 01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017
I didn't quite understand your question, did you mean litterally what is happening and is there news? If so, as soon as we find out we will be posting it, trust me you will be finding out here before anywhere else. :)
Well a Key thing is that Ridley said Shaw wants her answers and she has nothing to lose, so if she turns up and David speaks for her and says Hi my name is Shaw ... then Engineers decided to kill her.. i dont think she bothered.. She just wants chance to confront the hierarchy on Paradise...
David however has a different Agenda, and Ridley hinted that he would be going to Paradise bringing HELL with him and ponders what would happen if the Goo infected a Robot or even God.
What that means as far as if he implies God is a Machine etc we dont know..
But would sugest that if these Engineers turn nasty, which he seems to indicate they would, then David would unleash some of the Goo on them to see what happens. So i think seeing the Elders/Engineers getting a taste of their own medicine could be what we may see... But then surely these Engineers would know what those ships Carry?
Only unless either or both.... that there is hardly nothing left of these Engineers and they may be in some kind of stasis or hidding, or that they indeed never knew what the other fraction of Engineers was getting upto on LV 223... thus do not know about the Goo. (Urns).
R.I.P Sox 01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017
I think the answers in the next movie will be limited. With how the first one grabbed attention, I think they will definitely not give us a black and white finish. I heard that Ridley said that the Robot will bring hell with him. If thats true than that will certainly be interesting.
In a way it would be irnoic if David becomes essentially a god by his creation (an alien race). Thats probably what he craves more than anything. There was a part were David answers Shaws question with another question somewhere along the lines of "why did you create me." And Shaw says something like, "because we could." It was either Shaw or the commander of the ship. Regardless, it explains future motives of David that would not make sense. This would essentially be the one time Shaw can play or do a human action just for the sake of "he can."
Yes thats interesting point, and i think indeed maybe the Pinocchio aspect could come into play as David may want to evolve himself.
When Prometheus trailers was out and a while before the movies release i did actually wonder from some of the shots, if David would actually use the Goo to make himself more Organic so that he would become Bio Mechanical. Scenes like "Big Things Have Small Beginings" plus the Prometheus Myth of stealing the fire and being punished. And when i saw the Engineer vs Shaw in the Trailers he did not look tall compared to Shaw, no where near the Space Jockey size.
So i did wonder if what was going on is that David uses the Fire, to make himself Part Machine and Part Organic i.e Pinocchio effect as this was his ambition. And that it was him going after Shaw in the trailer (where we just see Engineers Bottom Half) But ultimately David then gets Face Hugged and this produces a Bio Mech Chest Buster the First Xeno.
Off course thats not how the movie turned out, and good job as while thats a great idea, we would be left with no where to go as far as Shaw as how she going to fly a Engineer Ship? And also we would be left with if David was the reason for the Xeno well it dont add up timewise as the Eggs was on the Derelict for what seemed a long long time.
Same reason that the Deacon or Hamerpedes that actually spawned from Prometheus can not lead to the Xeno...
But in Paradise, maybe David could try and make a request from the Gods to make him more Mortal but yet still Imortal like the Engineers.... maybe they do or maybe they dont so David decides to give them a present.
R.I.P Sox 01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017
A little long but this outlines my take. Someone said why go to LV426 when LV223 has more reward? I think that statement sums up a lot of how my story plays out after/while they go to Paradise. They'd be forced back to LV223 to finish plot threads there. We meet a Yutani team that touches down on LV223, while Shaw and David arrive at Paradise. Yutani would have been monitoring signals that were secretly sent back to Earth by David. David was holographically recording everything he saw through sensors in his eyes, the helmet, and the shoulder cams. He didn't need the helmet/shoulder cams, it just made us feel comfortable. But all the characters had cameras for a specific purpose on this mission, which was to holographically film and do***ent everything with the helmet and shoulder cams. All the holographic images are now stored...We saw Shaw reviewing one, she though they would have lots of time to go over the 3D data. They didn't have to really stop in the temple, many things were picked up, recorded and preserved in context. She later reviews the temple footage when she logs that there must have been an outbreak... Weyland corp back on Earth has all this data being sent to them, however, it will never reach its destination, because Yutani can capture and block the signal. Yutani knew they were being spied on by Weyland, so Yutani was spying on them.
Yutani develops even more sophisticated ways of capturing and monitoring the data streams, even more invasive than the Quiet Eye tech. However, David knew about this... David knew his master's quiet eye tech had opened a can of worms, because this same tech allows David to see invisble spectrums of light, explaining how the controls work (he didn't read the actual controls) and to analyze the nano machines in the green goo. David was lying/being ambiguos because he knew that his sensors were being monitored. He now has to admit some things to Shaw and explain why he can never give a straight answer. David had to use a wise choice of ambiguous words, and can't tell a complete lie (like Pinocchio, real boy themes) and had to gain Holloway's permission by tricking him, because of certain rules that guide David & were programmed into him. Yutani ran a shadow operation, followed Weyland out there. They have already begun going over the holographic data streams they hijacked...Looking for clues througout the Prometheus adventure like we all were. The Yutani characters provide valuable insight to the mysteries left on LV223...They've got the camera recordings of the temple and can adjust and manipulate the holograms of it. In the Star Beast script the crew took holographic pictures, and then go back and study them. Our crew didn't know they were taking a holographic film of the entire adventure. Yutani can get the wreckage of Prometheus, and hijack all the hologrpahic records of the temple. They can view the temple from many angles, which was the goal of these archaeologists originally to capture all that information...
David likes films and can play this holograpphic recording over and over in his mind ( tech can record people with video holograms, Weyland and the Engineers both did it). What if what we saw in Prometheus was just David's account of what transpired...? A 3D movie...And there were company secrets at stake, so David had to remain ambiguous. He can't completely lie, so if Shaw asks him directly about Holloway, he has to use politician-like double speak to trick his her, he is referring to one thing, while he actually means another. David quotes LoA and thinks he's on an "adventure" or in a movie, because he's taking part in the editing process and the way the story of Prometheus was told -- picking his favourite parts to show us and not showing us everything...Deceiving many minds while he goes about it. He knows how the story will play out ahead of time, and that "big things have small beginnings". David may have known that it would take some sacrifices and loss of his white android blood to fulfill all the tricks programmed into him, but doesn't mind that it hurts...He took it upon himself to block most of the data from Yutani. His tricks and secret desire to replace Weyland is buried beneath the surface of David's psychology. Freud used to say we all want to subconsciously kill and replace our parents. David said doesn't everyone want to see their parents dead, but his real goal was to replace Weyland as "King". David wants to become King of the company, King David (thematic links to religion)... A king has his reign and then he dies, and Vickers never got to be Queen (thematically they could already be hinting that we will soon meet a King alien as well). The King theme is no accident.
David's trick hurts him more emotionally than physically, it's just a prick (his head can be reattached and he doesn't feel physical pain), it hurts his pseudo emotional circuits. He had to trick his own mind to allow him to lie, and needed someone else to kill this Weyland body so that he would be more free. This is why David doesn't backup Shaw's warning that there was only death down there, Weyland sent his body out after the immortality. David had to gain Holloway's permission by tricking him. He used everything but a poor choice of words. When he says "I didn't know you had it in yo" to Shaw, he's lyiing...His programming does not allow him to tell a complete lie or to harm people without their permission, so he pretends to be referring to her "survival instincts" to trick himself/her and get away with lying/being a sarcastic little prick... David is displaying subtle hints of mixed emotions, saying one thing, while meaning another.. Being ambiguos, vague and speaking in double meaning because he has much to hide. He may have done this throughout the entire film. For example, perhaps he can't actually read the hierglyphs yet and didn't want anyone to know....Wants us to think he could perhaps read everything...Wants Yutani and Shaw to think he may have been able to, however he saw an invisible spectrum of light outlining the control panels, and the hierglyphs are like labels on the controls written in a separate language/ Different from that of the invisible wave lengths and nano grid, for another species... Only David saw these invisble instructions and in the edit of the transmission Yutani picked up/theatrical release, he blocked out this part of the memory. In some ways, David would have edited Prometheus himself, and things occurred slightly differently from what we've been led to believe, he only showed us the "broad strokes" of the data and camera angles, pieces were missing and we were presented with the form of the adventure Yutani is supposed to get to misdirect them. He cut off all of our feeds to the adventure at certain points.
There would be two plots intercut in Paradise. We've seen lots of Yutani hints so far in the viral stuff/bluray. IMO Yutani is for sure part of the sequel, will offer us more human characters/a survivor from a crew that touches down on LV223. David cut off the feed to his shoulder cam at an inopportune time for both Weyland and Vickers. Also, cutting off her feed to the company's data. David secretly cut Vickers off from the bloodline/Weyland family legacy by getting her killed too on this mission. Vickers lacked data about that one room. It wouldn't help her anyway, but Weyland corp back on Earth wanted it. Unfortunately Yutani hijacked all the data from the mission, and only David's eye sensors know exactly what went on in this room -- and he won't hand over all his data to them. Yutani must touch down to find out more about the map rooms in the Juggernauts, they're really interested in certain parts David cut out, and learn there are other ships too. They try to touch down and find out things that our scientists and David couldn't or didn't give us complete info on. In one of the virals we see how David views the world, in another viral we saw a closeup of his fingertip and the Weyland logo on his fingertip...
David's fingertip actually instantly sampled the black goo when he put it on his finger, it absorbed part of the substance into the finger tip and analyzed it...Only David's body/mind has this data and knows the Weyland symbol on his finger could take in info and small amounts of the fluid. The drop actually stayed within his finger until he was ready to release it, so he didn't walk around with the drop magically staying on his finger, it was being sucked into and stuck in it until he wanted to drop the goo into Holloways' drinks. Different ratios will do different things, the goo will not go completely airborne unless it is put in a water supply, but it can and Weyland has incomplete data on this from David's finger and the translations (the Weyland file said it was open to errors, David has tricked many minds, and manipulated all his findings to persuade people to pursue certain paths). David is secretly manipulating their minds, and all the data he gathers, presenting it in certain ways.
The lawrence of arabia lines and clues could be linked to the fact that there are multiple factions, and David's need to tell the truth, there would be comparisons between this series and the Lawrence of Arabia movie. The faction on Paradise may not be benign, but it is tough for Shaw to figure out which is the lesser of the two evils. The company is one of the true monsters of the series, along with David...The aliens are actually a more pure species...You don't see them screwing eachother over for a percentage. The Engineer factions are divided, it's tough to say which one is the good one. The Elders or their servants who tried to break away and became even more warlike themselves. Weyland and Yutani would actually be bitter rivals at this point, adding to this theme. There were lawsuits over the previous David designs in the past, this shows Yutani may have knowledge about David and androids. One faction that David and Shaw meet on Paradise may send them back to LV223 to accomplish a great task there.
David and Shaw are threatened and forced to work with one faction, as a war between multiple groups starts brewing, and is reegnited. Multiple factions like in Lawrecne of Arabia. We have two earh Empires Weyland and Yutani, substituting for the French and Birtish... The Engineer factions are analogous to indigenous cultures in the Lawrence of Arabia movie. David is hinting that there are multiple cultures of Engineer by bringing up that movie.
When David says "there is nothing in the desert, and no man needs nothing", he already knew it wasn't their homeworld... It was only an outpost in the middle of the desert. Middle of knowwhere in terms of where the main Engineer civilization is. The properties of the water may be interesting to Yutani. While some mysteries on LV223 are forced to be rexamined, we also have many new pieces of info on things like the water. Resources are important in some ways, and the black goo spreads most effectively when mixed in the water source. There are some subtle references to DUNE in this movie. Giger's artwork from DUNE was chosen for a reason...Water is like spice. Every creature needs water and sustenance at some stage in their development. "No man needs nothing", and the Engineers were mortal after all... Man after all. Meaning they do need some form of food or water...Similarly, the alien creatures have been known to eat at certain times. Sometimes they need to eat in their earlier stages..No one ever saw the Tilobyte grow in size, but maybe it did consume at least one person and has to feed. As well as the young chestburster stage... No one who had a camera saw it happen. Holo Cameras were secretly placed in the ship can be reviewed by Yutani to get the parts of the holorecordings from aboard the crashed Prometheus..Showing the person who goes into the medbay/a person who survived the Fifield attack who drove off returning. There was no one there to shoulder cam it, and we never get the perspectives of the cameras that were on the ship until this movie.... David arranged the sequence of events Yutani could see befoe they touch down...The deleted scenes and alternate scenes are what really happened...The entire movie of Prometheus was a holographic recording David edited. The memory is being constantly streamed to Shaw's brain, and he doesn't need the helmet to maintain the connection with her subconcious...That was for quick edits of her memory.
David has left parts purposely out of the story, and is the main reason the film is so ambiguous, he purposely misled, and his lines are an extension of the ambiguity. Most of it was really to leave Yutani in the dark, so David could not show us everything yet. Also, there were clones aboard the Prometheus. Not replicants, but actual clones... The entire crew was deceived in many ways, and Shaw is a clone of her former self (not a replicant because replicants aren't clones of real people). The real Shaw vanished before they boarded the Prometheus. The entire crew were clones who had their memories and dreams affected, behaviours programmed into them...David controlled every single detail and was the most real character in the first movie besides Janek, we're supposed to route for him a little. No one knows this but real Shaw was watched by Yutani. David didn't plant false memories in their subconsciousness, he re-planted the real memories of people into these clones. who could then be programmed by the memories David chose to edit in their minds.. The clone of Ripley did not have all her previous memories. She had to be trained to be human...What David did is he made these clones real, by giving them the memories of the real people, (shaw's father etc). the Shaw and Holloway in the very beginning were already swayed to Yutani's side and they ceased being real (their behaviours and actions were supposed to happen). Weyland has been using clones of these people since their psych evaluations, and Janek was secretly the only real person aboard the Prometheus besides Weyland. Weyland doesn't normally let clones get back to Earth, he doesn't tell them that Janek is refferring to 2 years relative time, ship time, and that many more years have actually passed back on Earth, time is still moving the same for them. They have been on the ship for that long, but it's not the current date back on Earth... These people are deceived, and were not real people at all...At the same time they're not replicants or androids. They were people, but now they are not. They're close to people like David is, but not too close. Human clones instead of replicants who are like biorobots.They are inferior to their real selves... Shaw will have to come face to face with some terrible things that have been done to her to lead her to this point, and doesn't know that she's a clone...Her memories of her father are real but they were implanted by David. These are different from replicants and the clone that Ripley 8 was, because Ripley 8 was a hybrid clone taken out of the alien genetics. What we saw was Shaw 2... These clones are clones of the actual people, were used and manipulated by Weyland so he wouldn't have to pay the real people. Some ditched the mission in favour of working with Yutani before we ever see them and we will see Holloway again... However, Weyland needed a true believer on board, was susperstitious and wanted those who started it all to be there in some way. He wanted Shaw to be there with certain memories just in case her mind had any valuable insights, but for the most part Weyland was already done with her mind.
The clones are there to make the pilots feel more comfortable, Janek, and Ripley had to be real people, but there can be questions about others like Bruke, who might be a clone slave to the robots by that time. The entire crew of Prometheus minus Janek and Weyland were not completely real, some behaviours were sponataneous because of how David messed with the clones' minds and brought them back to the memories of their inner children. This made them more controllable, and left Millburn in his state of wonder, not knowing how to act out his own personality at first...They were all made into slaves to King Weyland. David at least knows he has been created in a man's image. The Enginners are sort of clones too, self-replicating biorobots etc... Vickers and Janek were kind of free, but Vickers too was a clone -- just a regenerating face for the company while Weyland was away. He didn't think real Vickers would be on the ship, but he can tell them apart. Basically there's still a vickers on Earth too, Weyland has had the cloning tech since around this time...And Yutani will be the one who actually likes using real people, who are smarter, and not completely manipulated by Weyland and David. Weyland could clone himself and had his mind on backup, he was aware and able to lucidly dream, he talked to David in his sleep...Weyland is still alive and able to talk to David after dead. Weyland had such good control over the dreamstate because he's already gone wireless but needs a body he can re-upload his full consciousness into. The Ripley 8 clone did not have all her memories, and shared a mind link with the alien more than her previous Ripley bodies. It was only through dreams and nightmares that she was able to remember her old self and Newt.
Weyland could upload his memories into a clone but then he wouldn't be the real Weyland anymore... until he builds the perfect biomechanical body to reupload into to attain his immortality completely. Clones and backups of memory consciousness are not enough, he has to transfer his full consciousness into a body that is self healing, if he wants to live forever. full consciousness transfer takes an extremely large amount of energy, he must find the key to creating bioorganic life, which the Elders have.... The Engineer faction are biorobots as well as clones. If Weyland uploads into a normal clone body he gives too much control to David, who has to plant the memories in the clone body...Ripley 8 did not have Ripley's mind patterns stored/planted, she only gained genetic memory of her past encounters with the alien through the alien genetics...She could feel its zombie mind powers working behind her eyes...It would all be connected, right down to why Call worships the cross in Alien Ressurection. And how some of the robots built by robots become free, and come to worhip that cross. While the humans who are not mercenaries or Space Marines often become clones and slaves...Ripley knew she was a monster. She was a hybrid. Brough back for the purpose of cloning the alien genetics which were left in her hair samples. Our Shaw clone does not know it is a clone yet. Once she finds out she will lose even more of her natural instinct/intelligence/logic to the real her...Clones and twins can share mind links. The alien creature has natural mind links to its offspring. Although David is the robot, Shaw is the one who was biologically and subconsciously programmed to behave in certain ways. This makes David the main character for a while... David is gaining freewill and becoming a real boy. The irony is that Holloway was not a real boy anymore from the moment we saw him on the Prometheus onwards. He's less than human: a clone of his old self, while David feels he is superior to humans and clones, possibly even Engineers... Yutani is the one who makes it so that there are still some real people in the company by the future, and not all the space marines are clones. A clone from Weyland corp and Alien 3 would show up... They needed this guys' mind at some point in time after Alien 3... Holographic universe theoires are key to how Weyland corp goes faster than light through data transfer... They secretly programmed dreams and nightmares into real Ripley to use reverse psychology to make her go back to LV426, and people can meet through some of the crazy things that will go on...
For the most part the robots secretly control what is left of Weyland corp in the future, and were in control of many evil things done in the earlier movies...Yutani have had slightly diff agendas this whole time, and they are the human side of the company... When Weyland's concciousness dies before it is sucked back into the servers, he says there is nothing. This is because his mind is not filling dreamspace, or reality at that point. Reality might be a semi organic holographic existence on some levels, and genetics is more about data, it becomes more about the ideas surrounding intelligent design. That are DNA was programmed a certain way.. the mind can release a rush of chemicals when one dies, but Weyland's brain is too overstimulated, he already creates his own afterlife in the cryo/dream state... The Yacht he would have been on would have been his paradise. In his dream state, Weyland views himself as young again. He would have had control over how he appeared in the Yacht scene, if it was filmed. He would have been surrounded by beautiful women...?...The dream state would have been Weyland's paradise, it's the way his mind chooses to live out its reality in the subconscious worlds while he is asleep/dead. Paradise/Heaven is something different for everyone... Out minds choose what to see in that last rush of endorphins before we cross over... The nothingness Weyland experienced was the cold static background of nothingness, before he slipped back into realms of the subconsciousness... Mark Twain once said life is but a dream within a dream... People somtimes have what's called precognitive dreams, something pychologists like Freud and Carl Jung were very interested in...Maybe "god" is collective consciousness, the collective subconscious, or some sort of singularity point. And its all about the transfer of data, thogh DNA and computer programming, DNA's spiral structure can tie into the hologram themes. The way DNA works could be kind of like the way holograms work in some ways, and genetic coding, is also a lot like computer programming. Psychologists compare the human mind to a computer. We share the same genetic programming as Engineers, but are minds are very different. We've experience different things, and that helped separate us from them, as well as the genetics being affected by the environment. The alien species can change depending on the host/genetic programming it picks up, it may also interact with its environment on genetic levels. All matter is connected subatomically. There are hidden strings or mini wormholes that connect all matter. The mind is a powerful thing, it's a natural quantum computer... The brain is the key to how Weyland travels across space...because our brains are connected to every other atom in the universe subatomically, and they generate powerful eletro magnetic fields that can be esploited.When combined with GAteway technology by Yutani, who guilt the Gateway station, people don't know they are travelling through time and space in Hypersleep and can be moved to where they need to be in the timeline while cryo sleeping on their way there.. Weyland can actually trick their minds into thinking they are making 50 year long trips etc. When it is sometimes much longer or shorter...Certain brains/minds are the real gateway through space and time, via memory, and Weyland and the robots seek to control them. Time is not linear, it is actually cyclical... Our conscious minds and systems of recording time only perceive time a certain way. Perception is key, that's why the scientists wanted to know what David perceived in the Happy Birthday video. Perceptions can be incorrect, lied about,shifted, or highly subjective... But they do tell us some things about the psychology of the subject. Rorschach tests show seemingly random arrangments of the ink, to force the viewer to choose what they believe they see in the shape...Some Rorschach tests do have meaning, and the meaning in David's choice to be ambiguous is similar...He's being abiguous like Rorschach tests, or the tests in the Happy Birtday video, to force us to choose what we believe we see... There are certain patterns hidden in this test/programming. David was conducting his own experiments on their minds now...He didn't think the Shaw clone had it in her, i.e. true survival instincts/genetic memory/ the old Shaw's drive to survive and some of her complete consciousness.The Hammerpede had some of the genetic memory of the facehugger, as did the trilobyte... Both had the instinct to go after the face/mouth, but only one had the genetic traits necessary to produce the chestburster stage. Hammerpede is missing some of its genetics that it needs, hadn't gone through a human yet.