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Had Potential/Observations

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elysian

OvomorphMember0 XPJun-09-2012 2:39 PMLets start with the good... This was probably the most visually impressive film I've ever seen. The acting as well from the main cast was superb. Fassbender gets a A++ for his fantastic display as a cold as steel android. Rapace, A+, she had very big shoes to fill and played her role convincingly. Theron, A-, as always she dominates almost every seen she is in but her role was minor, mostly because there was no need for her character in the film... I'll get to that. People here want to rage on the rest of the cast being lousy but I don't feel like wasting too much time on cannon fodder. They were in the film to die... they died... Now the Bad... (Basically writing/Plot sucks) 1) This movie was billed as a film that had its own questions separate from the Alien franchise... thats great... The only problem is this film didn't answer ANY of them and just punted them on to the inevitable sequel. 2) Don't try to shoehorn "faith" into a movie... its shoddy and doesn't work... ever. 3) For a film that tried to distance itself from Alien it felt very recycled and predictable, kudos to Scott for keeping the suspense level high for the audience even though we knew what would happen next 99% of the time. 4) How many re-writes did this script receive? The reason I ask is because this film seems timid with so many things. Meredith Vickers (Theron) for example is a completely useless character that brings nothing to the film, I liked having her in it, but she did nothing to move the story along. Another example is this film tries SO HARD to be different from "Alien" at one point and then literally 5 seconds later turns around and pays homage to it. Its definitely the best "prequel that isn't supposed to be a prequel" I've ever seen. In the end... This film had Epic potential, the set pieces, actors, and director were up to the task. However, the writing was basically torpedoed this film... Verdict: Probably the most expensive B-movie horror flick ever made.
22 Responses to Had Potential/Observations

Red Wolf

OvomorphMember0 XPJun-09-2012 2:45 PMSimply must agree. Walked out disappointed, giving it a C+ when asked by my son. However, the "thinking aspect" is A+. As a fan of Sherlock Holmes (the black/white ones), Charlie Chan and Perry Mason, I love a good mystery -- but I'll SCREAM if they don't tie-up A LOT of things in the sequel !

Belial81

OvomorphMember0 XPJun-09-2012 2:48 PMYour verdict = the same thing they said about Alien when it came out. Not putting it on the same level, just sayin' ;)

elysian

OvomorphMember0 XPJun-09-2012 2:54 PMAgreed. A B- to C+ for me on this film. Unlike the film its not supposed to be a prequel to this movie cannot stand on its own as a completed film.

IrNinjaBob

OvomorphMember0 XPJun-09-2012 2:58 PMI just want to leave a quick comment on #2. While I am not a person of faith, or at least not with a clear definition of what that means to me, it seems like a movie that deals predominantly with questions like who are our creators and what is the purpose of humanity/the meaning of life is a prime example of when to include faith in the plot. One thing undeniable is that religion is somethig that appears in any human civilization, if not every sentient civilization that may exist, and the reason you don't see civilizations void of religion or faith is because they aim to answer the exact same questions this movie was asking. In fact, if it were left out altogether it would seem a very strange move for any writer. Like I said, regardless of what ones views on faith are, it being somethig so engrained in human culture, I dont see how it could have been left out of a movie that deals with what humanity is. Not saying it was included the right way, I'm just saying its exclusion would just seem ridiculous.

elysian

OvomorphMember0 XPJun-09-2012 2:59 PMI get that Belial but at least Alien was a finished film... it did not need a sequel. This film absolutely has to have a sequel as nothing was resolved in it.

IrNinjaBob

OvomorphMember0 XPJun-09-2012 3:12 PMI don't see that as a flaw, Elysian. Other than the fact that it's a ploy used to make even more millions on sequels, I think this movie is perfect in the questions it leaves unanswered. I have read three to 4 theories that are highly plausible and and could accurately explain odd behavior seen in the film. Leaving those questions unanswered is what is creating all of the speculation on what the real answers can be. While this will annoy many who want everything bundled in a clear cut and explainable package, the mystery and grand scale that all of these questions leave us with is what makes this movie so fun. I mean, is t that also the case in real life? Is there a clear cut answer to what our origin is or what the meaning of life is? No, and that has left some of the greatest minds humanity has offered pondering those questions for a lifetime and still we are left with all questions and no answers.

Space Jockitch

OvomorphMember0 XPJun-09-2012 3:15 PMelysian , you are right on. The only things I'll add are the amazing Dr. Shaw who becomes an action hero immediately after getting her gut opened, and the WAY too optimistic score.

elysian

OvomorphMember0 XPJun-09-2012 3:17 PMIn order to be a good film you can't knowingly omit key plot points so you can pump me for more cash later on.... For a director like Scott thats Amatuerish.

elysian

OvomorphMember0 XPJun-09-2012 3:20 PMAlso for those that disagree with me... I'm not bagging on the movie or saying I hated it. I'm just pointing out why the parts of the film I didn't like while acknowledging that visually.... its was ... amazing....

allinamberclad

OvomorphMember0 XPJun-09-2012 3:34 PM@elysian "But at least Alien was a finished film..." I think you have the measure of this. There is not one thing at all wrong with "unanswered questions" - I love 'em! However, Prometheus either skipped, trololol, over almost [i]every[/i] significant element or just left it hanging and/or wasted others..... and it didn't begin to sensibly approach the wider themes we were told it set out to do. I mean, that - no matter what you do and how you turn it - just isn't Narrative. The film is poorly executed in a way that seems astonishing and inexcusable.

Belial81

OvomorphMember0 XPJun-09-2012 3:34 PM@elysian, I disagree. If you go back and watch Alien all by its lonesome (and imagine that none of the other films exist), it draws far more questions than it does answers without the help of subsequent films. Sure, it was designed to be a standalone movie at first, but lets not forget that it was a film that pretty much resolved nothing about the Alien itself or LV426 or the Company (and on and on), which I believe was part of what gave the film such interest and mystique. It was something new and something completely unexplained. It allowed people to theorize and speculate enormously. Yes, the story of the humans on the Nostromo was self-contained, but Prometheus essentially covers the same ground in terms of the human characters. The only real difference is that Alien opened the questions and Prometheus expands on the mythos that has already been created. That and while Alien unintentionally spawned sequels, Prometheus was built with sequels in mind. I see nothing wrong with that as long as sequels are delivered. Of course, if that is not the case, then as fun as the movie is, I will be as upset as everyone else with the unanswered questions.

elysian

OvomorphMember0 XPJun-09-2012 4:09 PMI get that Alien left a lot of questions and fewer answers but Alien was also a straight up horror film that didn't even attempt to tackle the questions this film embraced and then punted.... Name one story arc in this film that reached its conclusion?

MostlyHarmless...Mostly

OvomorphMember0 XPJun-09-2012 4:58 PMI really enjoyed the film, the pace, the story, the acting but it is tough with an obviously unresolved ending to sit well with everyone.

spiralpowered

OvomorphMember0 XPJun-09-2012 5:59 PMI feel that Elysian is spot on in his observations; you can't have a movie promote its central mysteries to such a degree and then go and completely ignore them in favor of "gotta stop the aliens from bombing earth!" or whatever was the intent at the end there. On that note, why go to Earth and drop bioweapons at all? Why not just neutron bomb the lot of them if you want to start it all over?

Belial81

OvomorphMember0 XPJun-09-2012 6:14 PMThe Prometheus set out to find the engineers. They found them. And then some. May not have been the homeworld, but essentially they accomplished their goal. How boring would it have been if such a massive discovery yielded an easily explainable and perfectly wrapped up ending? As with real life, the greatest discoveries generally only breed more complex questions. I may be alone, but half the fun is trying to comprehend these questions. We were given a lot, but I think some people who disliked the movie neglect to recognize how much is actually there for them to grasp (or just aren't that into the Alien universe). Which is a fine standpoint to have, but I don't think it diminishes the movie. I will agree that the original Alien was essentially a straight up creature feature, but it did present some compelling mysteries within its framework that went beyond the usual toxic-substance-mutates-creature-sets-it-on-rampage style story. I do think it is somewhat unfair to compare the two, as Prometheus is attempting to build a rich and complex backstory based on the unknowns of essentially a simple creature feature. It is striving to be much more, and that will always be far harder.

MostlyHarmless...Mostly

OvomorphMember0 XPJun-09-2012 7:30 PM@spiral, maybe the point is that it's part of a process, mutagenic weapons with a purpose?

spiralpowered

OvomorphMember0 XPJun-09-2012 10:30 PMAh, that's a good point. With that in mind, perhaps the whole purpose of the last surviving jockey was to drop his payload on earth so that they could harvest the resulting xenos later?

seedling

OvomorphMember13 XPJun-09-2021 6:39 PM

Prometheus ranks as one of my favorite movies in the scifi genre. While elysian feels that "faith" was "shoe horned" into the film, I found it was a logical point of reference for a character, albeit the heroine, who is in search of humanity's origin. Without belaboring the point, there are plenty of characters whose "faith", is not anchored in Christianity. In my opionion, Prometheus' great potential lies in the stark contrast between David, the cyborg, and Naomi Repace's character Dr Shaw. David's superior artificial intelligence seems to patronize Dr Shaw's quaint religiosity. The reason one might find great potential in a movie that pits artifical intelligence against human faith, whatever the religion, lies in the push and pull at the heart of this conflict. Consequently I was disappointed when the sequel, Covenant, did not continue where Prometheus left off. Dr Shaw had rescued David to survive and continue her quest to meet the engineers, who, for lack of a better word, could only be viewed as gods. Despite knowing the origin of humanity had nothing to do with Shaw's biblical god, she soldiered on with her now perhaps obsolete value system. Imagine the conversations David might have had with a curious religious human whose animalistic survival instincts allowed for his continued immortality and his quest to leave a mark on this world, uh, these worlds....

BigDave

TrilobiteMember9900 XPJun-11-2021 7:51 AM

Certainly it could have been Interesting to see WHAT it is that David could have DONE had they NOT had to Shoehorn the PLOT to introduce incoming Humans.

With the ONLY DNA of a Human Dr Shaw but with Engineer DNA on a World he has WASHED CLEAN!

But YES i think their Dynamic was Interesting, i am sure that David found it INTERESTING that the Faith of Dr Shaw gave her such a WILL to Carry On!

And also as to HOW would it Effect her Character when she has to FINALLY FACE THE FACT that her GOD does-not Exist and these Engineers are FAR from the Benevolent Gods she had HOPPED.

The Engineers being merely Humanoids who just have the Benefit of being around for MUCH LONGER and thus having more Advanced Tech who NOW deem they can GO and DESTROY their Creations at WILL.

Dr Shaw would LIKELY see these beings as NOT being WORTHY to be the JUDGE, JURY and EXECUTIONER of all they Created.

Imagine the Engineers discover Dr Shaw and David have TURNED UP and then Determine that INDEED their Creations had Advanced so FAR on their OWN to become a Threat and then Dr Shaw discovers that Earth is NOT the Only World were the Engineers have Humans or Humanoids.

The Engineers then Determine that THEY have to GO TO THOSE WORLDS which Include Earth and DESTROY them all!

Would Dr Shaw go and ACCEPT THAT?  or would SHE agree with DAVID that the Engineers should be STOPPED!

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

BigDave

TrilobiteMember9900 XPJun-11-2021 4:42 PM

@seedling

I made a Thread about what possible Story was to be Told between when David had arrived at Planet 4 and when the Covenant had arrived, Quite a LOT had taken place in those near 10 Years that we had NOT seen in Detail.

https://www.alien-covenant.com/topic/50439

I have added some Dialog from a Scene that i came up with as FAR as just after the Juggernaught had Crashed,its in that TOPIC above ;)

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

seedling

OvomorphMember13 XPJun-16-2021 10:21 AM

@BigDave. Disappointed fans of Covenant, like myself, should resign themselves that the Shaw-David relationship will never be central stage in the Alien franchise. BigDave also asked what good introducing human DNA into the neomorph generation did for the franchise. In my opinion, Dr Shaw's character was wasted as a mere vessel for the neomorph.

The human origin aspect of Prometheus was side-stepped, sadly. There is a way to salvage it. A second follow to Prometheus could feature a flash back of the David-Shaw voyage to the engineer home world.

 

BigDave

TrilobiteMember9900 XPJun-16-2021 4:18 PM

I think that there was some Potential with David and Dr Shaw and i FELT that the Sequel could have been MORE, as it SET UP a Number of things to Cover/Answer and would have STEERED AWAY from ALIEN which i was Fine with.  But i think the U-TURN was NOT the way to have gone.

I think we would have SEEN MORE with the Engineers, but i think that DAVID would still have been the KEY PLAYER and who knows what would have became of Dr Shaw (Apparently from when Micheal Green came on-board in 2014 then she was CURTAINS anyway).

It seems Dr Shaw was Destined to become a Experiment to Produce something that David would go and Create even a Year prior to Alien Covenant. The Difference is that she WENT from being USED to Create something NEW to being USED to Create the Xenomorph.

The PROBLEM they Faced with a Sequel to Prometheus was that IF they go to where the Engineers had come FROM... then HOW MUCH of a Movie can you have about David and Dr Shaw and whatever they GET UP TO on the Way.

Its then a CASE OF...

*What beings to they Discover on the World they are OFF TOO?

*And HOW would these beings Receive David and Dr Shaw?

*How many of these Beings (or Engineers) are there?

And so with JUST the ONE Human Character who some Found Anoying, with a Robot Sidekick, then its a case of HOW do they Interact with the Engineers?

David being Translator while Dr Shaw wants Answers... we SAW how this went for Peter Weyland?

So WHERE do other Human Characters come into it?  So i think for a WHILE they had Planned for INCOMING Humans to arrive which means that WHEREVER it was that David and Dr Shaw would arrive would NOT be TOO FAR from Earth.

This could have BEEN SOLVED with some Better Writing/Thinking!

*Is the Earth the ONLY Place that has Humanoids or even Humans that the Engineers had Created/Engineered/Evolved?

*Are the Engineers really HELLBENT on Destroying all Humans/Humanoids or ONLY the Worlds that Disobey/Displease them?

"There is a way to salvage it. A second follow to Prometheus could feature a flash back"

I think maybe David could have a FEW FLASHBACKS... i am NOT sure you could Dedicate too much TIME to it.

But the EVENTS that went by from when David and Dr Shaw had Arrived (maybe in Part the Journey too) at Planet 4 until the Last Breath that Dr Shaw had Taken and HOW/WHEN we see David go and Set-Up the Transmission to BAIT in another Human Ship.... i think these EVENTS could WARRANT a NOVEL ;)

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

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