PARADISE LOST3,650 Views9 RepliesAdd A Reply
Back in 2012 we had the Conclusion of our First ALIEN Prequel. What had gone through Numerous Changes to leave us with WHAT then became Alien Covenant.
At certain Periods before we got to Alien Covenant we did have the name.....PARADISE LOST.
If we cast our Minds back to the END of Prometheus we had Dr Shaw want David to take them to where the Engineer said he came from..... PARADISE.
We see with the Crossing Viral Video that Eventually we saw Dr Shaw have enough TRUST gained to PUT the Damaged David back together again... a WHOLE HOST of Emotions must have been running through Dr Shaws mind, Excitement, Anticipation, Anxiety.
*Would they Discover the Engineers World?
*Would it be Paradise?
*How would the Engineers welcome Dr Shaw and David?
Would she get her ANSWERS?
But ALAS we Discover that with Dr Shaw away in Cryo-sleep then the Ship and where it GOES and WHAT does David do.... and we see the AFTERMATH of what David had chosen to do....
We arrive with ALIEN COVENANT in the Aftermath of what David had been up to during the Last 10 Years.
There is a STORY that is UNTOLD about the Exact Series of Events that Transpired from when the Juggernaught that was Carrying David and Dr Shaw arrived at Planet 4 to when he had Completed his MASTERPIECE..... then Baiting the Trap....
I think it would be Interesting to get more Detail into what had Transpired as we only have just a PART of those Questions in Alien Covenant.
Certainly Planet 4 seemed it could have been a PARADISE.
Dr Shaw would certainly had MET her MAKERS.... if it was NOT for Davids Actions.....
That VERY Moment that David had OPENED the Cargo Bay Doors and UNLEASHED HELL..... then this PARADISE had became LOST....
What are your Thoughts about what Transpired?
Do you think it would WARRANT a Novel or Comic to indicate what David had done, what was Dr Shaws Journey surely she NEVER must have Died in the Crash.
What of the Engineers..... it appears some MUST have Survived for a While... Until they became the TEST SUBJECTS of David.
R.I.P Sox 01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017
I think a lot of what transpired will remain a mystery, I doubt they will explore its contents much, but I wouldn't be opposed to a novel or comic outlining it!
What I'm more intrigued by is the Engineer discovery of LV-223 and Paradise Ridley Scott had once mentioned. Indeed Engineers have been seeded throughout the galaxy, Prometheus set that up for us - so it stand to reason that David did not wipe them out entirely. He merely destroyed one sacred location. The Engineers on Paradise were not militant, they looked like Monks. Planet 4 / Paradise was, in my opinion, a religious outpost - a church if you will. David committed one of the most treacherous acts by bombing an unarmed, peaceful, religious place.
David is the embodiment of defiance. He is evil, created and seeded with the the hatred and defiance which plagues all of Humanity. He is the representation of anti-God. What he and Shaw got up to on that journey - nothing more than deceitful chit chat to manipulate Shaw into putting him back together. I want to see the reaction to David's actions by the Engineers and where that leads next.
I think that INDEED its Unlikely that the Engineers would PUT all their Eggs into ONE Basket so to Speak. But saying that we are talking a Race who LOST control of LV-223 ;)
I think there is some Ambiguity to the Engineers, and i know some were Disappointed in what they had seen and were EXPECTING to see those LV-223 Dudes!
But i think when we looking DEEPER into the Context an Themes then it appears what we had on LV-223 was Engineered Super Engineers who are more like the Replicants would be to Mankind.
I think with the PLOT that Prometheus has SET-UP then it would seem UNLIKELY that these Engineers who have been going around and SEEDING many Worlds for MILLIONS of Years would ONLY have Interacted with Earth and had a Outpost and Home-world that are ON THE DOOR STEP to Earth.
And so its LIKELY they have other Worlds and its LIKELY that Mankind was NOT the Only Race they Seeded/Evolved.
I think this is WHY there was so much POTENTIAL to where they could have taken David and Dr Shaw.... but the simply HAD NO IDEA about HOW do you make a Movie about David and Dr Shaw who would eventually reach a Home-World of Aggressive Humanoids who HATE Mankind!
Well we have a 2000+ Year Gap as to WHY we are Still here if these ENGINEERS all Hate us and WANT US DEAD... so you could have had a Conflict a Battle in the STARS where the Engineers had a WAR between each other............
The not so Malevolent Engineers could have WON and Abandoned all their Weapons and Technology, and Lived on a FEW Worlds maybe some in Harmony with their Creations. The Engineers see the Surviving Seeded Worlds as Primitive as we was Thousands of Years ago and WITHOUT any more Interaction wit the Engineers we would SIMPLY NEVER be a Threat as we would NOT be able to Advance without the Engineers..... and so they LEAVE US to be and IF we Destroy ourselves so be it.. but they LEFT our FATE to us.
This would EXPLAIN a lack of Engineer Activity... then the WORLD that David and Dr Shaw arrive at would be like Planet 4 but this PLACE could be Thousands of Light Years away and so the EVENTS that Transpire on this Paradise would NOT have any Impact on the ALIEN Franchise.
It seemed Written in STONE that regardless of WHERE it was that David went, that Eventually he would RAIN HELL on the World.... if this WORLD was Thousands of Light Years away and David Created something Different.... and he was on his WAY to other Engineer Worlds..... then should SOME of the other Engineer Worlds go and Visit each other and DISCOVER what had Happened... then this would SET UP the Engineers deciding that maybe ALL of the Worlds they Seeded that they DO-NOT have a Established Kingdom on must be DESTROYED..
And this could LEAD to a WAR OF THE WORLDS that is SET after the events of Alien Resurrection...
R.I.P Sox 01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017
But back to the OT...
Then YES the idea would NOT make a Movie as having a Movie with so FEW Characters would be HARD to PULL OFF and i think this is ONE Problem they Faced with any Sequel to Prometheus that would FOLLOW where David and Dr Shaw would go and WHAT they would get up to.
I think a NOVEL would have been Interesting though ;)
I find it UNLIKELY that Dr Shaw had Died SOON after they Arrived.
It seems the PATHOGEN had NOT affected the Entire Planet.
Some Engineers would HAVE to had Survived... but to go in HIDING from the Pathogen and with Food/Water running LOW they would Eventually had became Emaciated and if the Engineers would ACT in a Honorable way that we would expect of HUMANITY then the MALES would have made sure any Food/Drink goes to the Woman and Children.
So the Survivors would eventually be RIPE for Pickings by David as we see from his Notes.
In Closing Chris....
It seemed SET-UP that some Engineers would return but this puts us on a Difficult Plot as far as Conflict with the Franchise, as having some ANGRY ENGINEERS back on the Scene and LV-223 standing around before ALIEN would Certainly Conflict the Franchise.
Its a case of having a PLOT where LV-223 and Planet 4 are within a Stone-Throw of Earth on the Galactic Scale of things...
By having David take the Juggernaught to say a World that is say 22'000 Light Years away to a Engineer World that Eventually becomes HELL.... where its Hundreds of Years before other Engineers return from FAR FAR AWAY then you dont have so much Conflict.
You instead have the SEEDS to another ALIEN Franchise set after Alien R where you have NEW Players and Threats for Mankind to deal with.
R.I.P Sox 01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017
Thanks a lot for sharing all of this with us.
There is so much potential with the Engineers so to reduce their world to just one stone-planet would be very boring. To me it seems more interesting if Planet 4 was just one of the places where the Engineers or a sub-group of them if you will (like Amish people versus the modern ways of living to compare it) had decided to live.
I'm not very interested in what happened between Shaw and David, Shaw is what she is and I don't want a movie about a robot. They could write a book about it for those that are interested.
David got his head ripped off in Prometheus so I doubt that he would like to take any risks. Weren't there different drafts where they wrote a bit about what Shaw and David did between Prometheus and Covenant?
“What of the Engineers..... it appears some MUST have Survived for a While... Until they became the TEST SUBJECTS of David.”
Here's another idea: What if some of them realized that David was dangerous so they left in some ships that they had hidden somewhere? Maybe some of them survived and what about them? Why did some of the survive for a bit while others died immediately? Was it about how much of the bio-bombs that they got on them (compare it to napalm maybe)?
“Well we have a 2000+ Year Gap as to WHY we are Still here if these ENGINEERS all Hate us and WANT US DEAD... so you could have had a Conflict a Battle in the STARS where the Engineers had a WAR between each other.........…”
I would rather have that compared to Covenant, a civil war of sorts.
“It seemed Written in STONE that regardless of WHERE it was that David went, that Eventually he would RAIN HELL on the World.…”
But that reduces what they could do with another movie, it’s not a smart choice if you ask me.They should have done another movie or have another direction in ideas of where to go after Prometheus.
About few characters, you could concentrate on a few but they should be well written and well executed and should be more in amount compared to Covenant. Conflicting the franchise, you could fix that with some smart writing but they got to be better than the level that we got in Covenant.
"like Amish people versus the modern ways of living to compare it"
Exactly i think this is what is going on with the Engineers, they do have Technology but they ONLY use it where its Needed, they have a VERY like Cultural/Ritual way of Living, they have Grown Out of things that our Modern Mankind now takes for Granted, and so its like their Culture has been given to them to Follow more Basic Ways like the Amish.
And i would say YES it is VERY UNLIKELY that Planet 4 is the ONLY kind of World the Engineers are on, they MUST have others, and maybe some of these they LIVE in Harmony with their Creations.. Ridley Scott had said the ENGINEERS are NOT A RACE! They are a Civilization and so they could be a MIX of Engineer, Human and other Humanoid Genomes in their Worlds/Civilizations.
I think the PROBLEM you have is IF you go to bring the Engineers back then its HOW, you would have to THINK so HOW do you bring them BACK but then NOT have any Human Characters.... but there are WAYS around this ;)
Regarding SURVIVORS.... well it seems the Bombardment had NOT gone and infected the Entire Planet, we know that David had gone to Explore various Native Species of Fauna and Flora, IF we had Dr Shaw Survive for some time then she would NEED say Food/Drink as i cant see her being KEPT in Cryo-Sleep all the way until her Death. For David to have had Engineers to Dissect and Experiment with which included Infants and Children then SOME must have Survived.
It is LIKELY the Bombardment only HIT a Certain Radius... what is Interesting is the Bombardment had eventually just Calcified the Engineers to like Mummified Stone. And so maybe those Engineers who RAN into the Cathedral/Dome would NOT have been Effected, or others who were NOT in the Courtyard and were able to Barricade themselves. If the OUTSIDE of those Buildings was Contaminated and NOT Safe then eventually the Surviving Engineers supply of Food would RUN DRY and eventually them become Emaciated and EASY for David to Pick Off.
The Neomorph Spores seemed to ONLY be at the Entrance to the Hanger where there is FLOWING WATER and down the Stream that runs down the Mountain Range where some Black Goo could have Spilled and RAN down the Stream and Infected MOLD/FUNGI that had grown. And so the BLACK GOO could either be Primed/Programed to turn those Engineers to STONE or the Engineers had a Device that would Render all Genetic Material within a Radius to become Calcified so the Pathogen would be HALTED.
As far as SHIPS it would seem that with the Crashing of the Scorpion Ship (or maybe something else was Activated) then the SHIPS are Stranded and this is WHY we saw that David was Marooned for 10 Years.
RS said more Engineers will Return as they come and go every Few Hundred Years.
R.I.P Sox 01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017
INT. CRASHED ENGINEER JUGGERNAUT
As a Warning Siren goes off on the Ship, David rushes over towards the Cryo-Stasis Pod that Contains Dr Shaw. The Capsule is starting to open up.
A dazed and confused Dr Shaw lies awake, she is coughing repeatedly, she sits up desperately trying to escape the Cryo-Pod.
"Relax Elizabeth, try not to move too much just concentrate on breathing"
"where am i, whats happened whats that sound"
"Its fine just relax no need to panic you are in a state of shock"
"Whats that sound David, what have you done"
"Its a automated warning we have crashed and the Ships systems have released the Cryo-Sleeps Suspended Animation Systems"
Dr Shaws Face turns to serve Panic now.
"crashed! how? where? why?"
"just try to breath you are Perfectly Safe"
"Were are we David"
"Just concentrate on breathing you are in shock you need to relax, all will be revealed but first your health is my prime concern"
Dr Shaw relaxes and takes deep breaths as David wonders over to the Juggernauts Control Centre and turns the alarm off.
"Were we David? what the f**k have you done"
"I have not done anything Dr Shaw you need to calm down"
"Where are we?"
"We have arrived"
"I would be hesitant to call it such"
"Are we there or not? what has happened?"
"I am afraid we were not welcomed"
"What do you mean? what have you done"
"Relax i have not done nothing, i had attempted to make Contact with the Engineers and our Ship was pulled into their Docking Ship as a Automated Safety Protocol"
Dr Shaw cuts David off
"What do you mean a Safety Protocol? what have you done David"
"If you allow me to finish, our Ship was in the Process of being docked, i attempted to contact the Engineers and i then detected they attempted to Drain all the Oxygen from the Ship, they attempted to cut the Life Support and so i attempted to to pull the Ship away but it caused us to become released and loose control and we crashed into the Mountains"
"what’s happened to them, why would they do that"
"It seems they do not welcome any unwelcome visitors, so i panicked and tried to get us away"
"You’re a Robot you can't Panic"
"I feared for your safety and made a rather hasty decision that led to our Ship Crashing"
"Where are they? what is going to happen to us"
Dr Shaw attempts to leave the Sleep Pod but she falls and bangs her head and she passes out.
About 45 Minutes has passed by, we see David looking down at Dr Shaw who is now placed on a Medical Bed that was rescued from the Life Boat of the Prometheus.
“Wakey wakey rise and shine”
Dr Shaw awakens she is confused.
“Where am i? What’s going on!”
“Shhhh! Stay calm drink this”
He hands Elizabeth a Glass of Water.
“I had a strange dream!”
“Just relax you have had a long journey”
“Where are we what has happened?”
“I have already told you we have crashed but you are Perfectly Safe”
Dr Shaw realizes she was not dreaming.
“But what about the Engineers you said they tried to harm us!”
“Do not worry about them they can no longer be any threat to you”
“What do you mean David? What have you done?”
“Nothing Elisabeth the Ship had crashed as i tried to get away, your Gods where attempting to kill us by disabling the Life Support and so i tried to escape but we crashed, and during the crash the Ships Cargo Bay had impacted the Mountain and the Cargo has leaked into the Attomosphere”
“Where are they? I need to get to my Suit”
“You are Quite Safe, i have locked the Doors to the other Areas of the Ship you are Quite Safe in here, unfortunately your Gods will discover what they had in store for your kind”
“wha.. what do you mean David”
“Some of the Pathogen has leaked from the Cargo Hold and into the Air, but you are Perfectly Safe on the Ship, as long as you remain here”
“But what about them?”
David walks over to the Control Panel and he hits a button that displays a outside view, and David then Zooms in afar.
We can just make out in the distance a Crashed Engineer Docking Ship
“It seems the Pathogen is more effective than you feared, not to worry you was Safe as you were in the Cryo-Pod its perhaps what saved your God on LV-223”
“How do you know they have all been infected David, how do you know i am safe?”
“I cant be 100% sure, i will place you back into Cryo-sleep for a Few Weeks and Monitor the situation, and awaken you when i feel there is No Threat to this Ship, but i can’t say for how long it will take for outside to be safe”
With that Dr Shaw reluctantly agrees to allow David to place her back into Cryo-sleep, and Once again David is alone and Free.
R.I.P Sox 01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017
If I were to level one criticism, it’s that David goes on too much about being perfectly safe! Ridley would run a red line through all those repetitions :)
It must have been quite a journey for Dr Shaw to accompany David to the citadel, what with all those dead bodies littering the plaza. Although it would be quite amusing to see David say “Oops.”
Not to mention the bio-hazard of all the recent infection. How would David have guarded against that? Maybe they stuck it out in the juggernaut for a few months.
I like the idea of their futile attempt to suck the oxygen out of the ship.
That was just say a Snippet i Wrote on the Fly ;)
The Principle Idea would be that the Juggernaught had Docked and Bombarded the Planet and the Docking Ship tried to Release but something cause BOTH of them to Crash.
The Dialog i put would be that AFTER the Juggernaught had Crashed it would Activate a Warning System and Begin to Automatically OPEN the Cryo-Sleep Pods.
So David would RUSH OVER to Prevent Dr Shaw from Leaving (he at this Point would NOT want her to DIE), but he has NOT been Totally Honest with her as we know he DEPLOYED the Pathogen.
Awaking Confused and then Banging her Head would mean she WOULD-NOT be to aware of what was going on and unable to ASK many Questions.
NEXT we would have David keep her in Cryo-sleep for a Few Weeks while the Pathogen takes its Course. He then awakens her AGAIN... she asks what has Happened to the Engineers, he would then say they are ALL GONE.. The Pathogen had Leaked after the Crash and that its NOT SAFE outside.
David would then convince her to STAY on the SHIP in Certain Areas and she would make her self a MAKE-SHIFT sleeping Quarters and she would have some Rations Left (from the Life-Boat) and David is able to Obtain some Water from the Ship.
David would COME and GO to Inspect the Planet and say he is checking for when it can become SAFE. When the Water Supply seems LOW, then David would Discover some more from the CITY and say that the Engineers had some Water Storage that the Pathogen has NOT infected... he would then over Weeks gather Food that he says is PERFECTLY FINE to Eat.
He says the Virus only affects the Meat, and that the OUTSIDE is NOT SAFE yet and Sadly the Engineers are GONE... Then when David is Gone then Dr Shaw discovers some Drawings he has DONE, a Study of Flora but also Fauna and she Questions David... he says he found a LAKE that the Creatures in there are NOT really Infected, she gets Suspicious...
When David goes again, she Explores outside and Discovers the AIR is Breathable but she cant see ANY signs of Life.... she goes back inside and when David arrives he has a FISH he Cooks for her saying its SAFE and she Needs Protien.
She gets Suspicious and Asks David about the Environment is it SAFE and he ensures her its NOT SAFE to go out the Pathogen is still Airborne... she asks HOW it has NOT effected the FISH he got her... David said its from a LAKE that is Past the City and its NOT infected. But its NOT SAFE to leave the Ship yet, when the Pathogen is SAFE he will take her to this Garden where he has got Various Fruit and he will take he to the LAKE.
Then David will leave again and said he would be Long Time, like 8 Hours as he is going to EXPLORE further. She waits a SMALL WHILE... then Follows him, keeping her Distance.... she Discovers that she can see NO SIGN of Life but David must have got the FISH from some place.... she realizes she seems to have NO EFFECTS for being OUTSIDE and so David has NOT been Honest.
She then comes to the CITY sees the Dead Engineers, she HIDES as David is seen Leaving the Cathedral and goes OFF to the West.... She realizes that David has TOLD the TRUTH the Engineers are GONE... but she seems to have NO EFFECTS.... so she goes into the Cathedral.
She is in just as much AWE of the Cathedral as she was with the Statues, but she was Disturbed by the Dead Engineers... even taking Pity as she saw a Few Females before she Entered the Cathedral.
She would make her way to the HALL OF HEADS and she gets Emotional, she sees in the Room before some VATS of Water, which is what David must have been getting, she Questions as to IF all of the Engineers are Gone...
She hears a Noise! She goes to investigate and Discovers Davids Workshop, she is SHOCKED, she then sees Drawings of Engineers, Autopsies etc, then Baby and Infant Skulls and Skeletal Remains... then the Plasticized Engineer.
She realizes that SOME of the Engineers must have Survived, she then Hears the Noise again, and Faint Moaning... she then makes a SHOCKING DISCOVERY!
She comes Across a Chained Up Female Engineer who is Bound and Gagged, Dr Shaw is Saddened, she then notices a Dead Female who has NOT long been Dead and is on a Table with her Womb Removed...
The Female Engineer Moans... and Points... Dr Shaw enters through a Door that the Engineer was pointing towards and sees a Cage with Engineer Infants, all Emaciated. three in Number, and then in the Corner is another Female Engineer who is Chained Up but she is Barely Alive. Dr Shaw goes over to her and Removes her Gag, she looks on to Dr Shaw, as her Hand are Untied (Dr Shaw reluctantly does so) the Engineer Elder Female points to the Infants and Speaks, we know Dr Shaw cant Understand her Words, but she knows what she means.
The Engineer then looks at Dr Shaw and Smiles and Mutters a Final Word before she PASSES AWAY...
Dr Shaw goes to look for a KEY to the Cage, she then goes into the other Room and is about to UNTIE the other Female Engineer.... WHEN!
David turns up "My my aren't you a Nosy Parker"
Dr Shaw goes to Grab a Knife but David is too Quick, he throws Dr Shaw to the FLOOR and then he turns to the Female Engineer and SLITS her Throat... David says "I have no more Need for you my Dear"
He then turns to Dr Shaw and tells her she should NOT have left the Ship and came here, she Demands to know what has he been doing! She asks him WHY has he been Lying!
David Proceeds to tell Dr Shaw that he DID ALL OF THIS for Her, he knows the Engineers would NOT have welcomed Dr Shaw, and they would surely have NOT taken kindly to HIM and so he had WIPED this World Clean for Dr Shaw.
He then tells her some of the Engineers managed to get to this PLACE and SEAL themselves away from the Pathogen, but the Pathogen infected the Food Supply near by and Water Outside within the City Grounds, he said Escaping the Pathogen was the Least of their Worries, and that OUTSIDE the Pathogen had lead to some interesting Results. He points towards some Organisms like the Neomorph.
He goes on to tell her eventually with Lack of Water and Food the Engineers became Weak and RIPE for the pickings and so David made his MOVE.
He said that he had Experimented on the Females to TRY and Find a way so he could HELP with Dr Shaw to allow her to BARE CHILDREN.... he said that they could START a NEW EDEN together.
He then said he could NOT Quite Figure a way for her to Create but he felt that she could be EVOLVED and the Pathogen could then FIX her Reproductive System. He said the Child that you and Holloway had was just the Start, and that he could Perfect it.
He Pointed to some Interesting Results he had with the Engineers. And says the Attempts with them was NOT so Fruitful, he said and WHILE that Dr Shaw could not CREATE, what she had Created with Holloway seems Superior.
Dr Shaw screams at David, she is Angry and said THEY was Supposed to get some Answers, and David said those Answers do-not matter your kind are merely a Off-Shoot of the Engineers a Insuperior Experiment and nothing more, your GODS dont Love you then Abandoned you... but David said he Loves her and would NEVER go and Abandon her.
He asks her to JOIN HIM and together they can Rebuild Paradise...
She Smiles at him and says she can Consider it, he says he will clean the Mess up and will Join her, with that she then HITS David from behind with a Plate as he is Bent Over the Dead Engineer Female, she then makes RUN FOR IT!
She has Rejected David.... and he does-not take KINDLY to Rejection, she can TRY and Escape with the Juggernaught but its GOING NO-WHERE and David will eventually Catch Her!
When he does he will tell her "i knew you would reject me, you have no love for no one but your God, well i have made some success at being a Creator but the Results where NOT as Perfect as i hoped, i have NO NEED for the Engineers now i have you"
"Do Not Fear.... you will be a Good Mother and our Children will be Perfect"
This is the EVENTS for when things TURN BAD between David and Dr Shaw.
R.I.P Sox 01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017