Ridley Scott has already talked about how he would like to replace the xenomorph with something else in the potential sequel. However, in a recent interview with Yahoo movies, he mentioned that coming up with a new idea unique as the xenomorph isn't quite easy.
"In my career, which has been pretty long, there’s only been, with the greatest respect for the people I’ve worked with, two real, real originals. Funnily enough, I came across a guy called HR Giger and if I hadn’t got that monster you would not have had that movie. I saw the drawing – the drawing was drawn for the book, not the film – and I was so kind of taken, I flew to Switzerland where he lived because he didn’t want to get the plane as he was scared of flying."
"It wouldn’t have been the same movie. Whilst the cast was wonderful, with Sigourney [Weaver] and Harry [Dean Stanton] and those people, but without that eighth passenger, it wouldn’t have been the same film. What I’m trying to say is that there are rarities, there are those [ideas] that occur once in the while, not that often, but when they do grab them and hang on to them."
"Human heaven? Goodness, humans don't go to heaven.
Someone just made that up to prevent you from all going nuts."
- Kryten, Red Dwarf S3E06 "The Last Day"
i'm against this this!!!
This would be like replacing Batman with Flying Squrriel Man
Slightly interesting! I mean, this is kind of what we have been hearing since just before the began developing Prometheus fully. I don't really enjoy the fact that Scott seems to really really be pushing the creature out and not giving it the respect I (as a super hardcore and particular fan) think it deserves. That said, he knows how to make a quality movie. He made something ABSOLUTELY different, fresh, and GREAT in Prometheus and did his best (with the writers) to make something profound and great wrapped in a rehashing of the Alien plot.
So, hopefully he can make something that is, well, good in the third movie of his Prometheus trilogy. If it happens. But yeah, it just comes down to story. If they can craft something a little bit more interesting (they can't go with the alien signal or map to abandoned planet and eaten by monsters this time) and new. Or if they try to go with a classic sort of plot, then just do it better than Covenant. Also, give us some realistic and well-written characters too. Boom bam bang.
Not a map, an invitation
It's too bad that there will be no more Giger in the next Aliens movies as Fox does no want to royalties to his Estate. and from 2049, Blade runner is Philip k D-ck-free.
Without those 2, sir Scott would have never been considered a master of sci-fi. And judging by such interviews he does not really know where to continue his story, so in all likely-hood the last movie in the series will be disappointing.
As for the xenomorph, he already has cheated celluloid death way to much.
Very Interesting Statement by Ridley Scott and it does add up to the kind of stance he was taking with Prometheus and his comments after Alien Covenant about being ahead of the game/curve so to speak (with Prometheus)
I think we need to understand the EVOLUTION of the Xenomorph, in order to understand Ridley Scotts's statements.... The Beginnings of ALIEN came from Dan O'Bannon's STARBEAST were the Monster involved in this Story was similar it had a similar Life-Cycle to what the Xenomorph was intended to eventually have (The Alien DC Egg Morph) however the Plot differed in that the Egg Stage of this Monster was NOT discovered on the Derelict Alien Ship (The Humans discovered via a Beacon/Signal). The Organism was discovered in a seperate Pyramid/Temple Complex that housed the Egg Stages of this Organism and was the Ritual Birthing Place (via Sacrificial Hosts) of this Species.
The Alien Species are shown to be Civilized, and its indicated they had built this Pyramid as a Incubation/Nursery for their Young to be Born and Grow. The Alien Species Long Gone and all that remained was the End/Beginning Stages of their Life-Cycle the Eggs/Spores.
So the ALIEN MONSTER was supposed to be a Intelligent Species a Civilized Species, but its Young would Grow to become Feral and Aggressive without Nurturing by the Developed Adults.
By the time we got to ALIEN we had HR Giger's Necronom IV and V be used as the basis for the Creature Design, giving us something Unique and Surreal but also something kind of seductive to its Aesthetic, it appeared to be both Horrific but also something very Feminine and Attractive to its Design. While a Number of things had happened as far as Changes between Starbeast and Alien as far as the Plot and Set Locations... It appeared Ridley Scott wanted to explore the Xenomorph's Intelligence, so as to kind of connect to the Creature being more than just a Killing Machine... And by this he wanted to have the Xenomorph Kill Ripley and then Impersonate her Voice to Lure in more Hosts.
So we can see the Concept appeared to be more than a Beast that goes around Killing People, but without any upbringing by its Species, the Creature was at first a Predatory Killing Machine, but had the instincts to go and Procreate its Species, and then Evolve Intellectually. But with the Ripley Death/Impersonating idea dropped and the Egg Morph Scene Cut, what we had was a Alien Monster that went around killing the Crew ONE BY ONE like some kind of Alien Space Jason Voorhees. This shows just how much the Outlook/Interpretation of a Movie can be affected by the removal/edit of a few Scenes. (as we see with Prometheus also).
In came James Cameron, wanting to continue the Story with a Sequel, where Cameron gave us the idea that those EGGS had to be Laid by a Queen.... James Camerons Aliens was a Action Orientated Movie and still to this day has to be one of the BEST if not the BEST Sci-Fi Popcorn Action Flick there is.. Its like the Rolls Royce of say Star Ship Troopers Popcorn Flicks.
It reduced the Roll of the Xenomorph as being nothing more than a Herd/Hive of Deadly Alien Killing Machines, intent on Procreating its Species like some kind of More Advanced Ant/Termite/Bee Hierarchy. We had Alien 3 and Alien Resurrection come along and they never really Evolved the Organism to much as far as its Agenda/Purpose, but only to reveal more that the Human Company Corporations had Agendas to use the Organisms for its Bio-Weapons Research and Development Departments.
Looking at the Franchise... it was a case of what to do NEXT? We ended up with a number of Games/Comics which a number where Great Fun... but these were mainly those that explored the Predator and Alien in the same Universe and so we ended up with the AVP Movies which only further downgraded what the Xenomorph WAS.
At this Point the Xenomorph from the Franchise in the Whole was a Invasive Species that had ONE Purpose and this was to Simply Survive and Procreate Much like some kind of more Advanced Termite/Ant. We had the Reveal that in the ALIEN Movies the Companies wanted to exploit the Organism as a Bio-Weapon, the AVP Movies showed the Predators used the Organism as the Ultimate Prey for the Hunt.
The True Mystery of the Xenomorph still remained as to WHERE did it come from..... which goes back to the Derelict/Space Jockey Scene where for a long time Ridley Scott had indicated it was a Bio-Weapon that the Space Jockey Race used.
IF..... we Did-Not explore this Mystery then we have to ask WHAT/WHERE Next?
We could have tried the ALIEN Formula again, this was also tried with Alien 3 and we have to ask, after seeing the Beast on Screen in more greater numbers in Aliens, Alien Resurrection and the AVP Movies.. Could they really give us a few more ALIEN style Flicks and doing another few of those would the Xenomorph just be a Alien Space Jason Voorhees?
They could have gone the ALIENS Formula but how many of these in light of Alien Resurrection and the AVP Movies before we are just getting a Starship Troopers kind of Flick?
The only LOGICAL route if they Ignored the Prequels would have been to take Alien Resurrection as far as the Purpose and the Agenda of the Company in the Franchise and show us the Xenomorph being Evolved, Experimented on and offer something different to the Xenomorph we see in Alien, Aliens and Alien 3.
I FEEL THIS ^^^^ is what Ridley Scott was saying regarding how you can go a few more rounds but you have to EVOLVE him (Xenomorph) and you have to come up with something Fresh.
R.I.P Sox 01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017
interestingly, I and others have inferred Scott's statements to be a 180-degree turn on his anti-alien stance, as I have just written up HERE.
like whom? your friend that mr and the letter after G and before I?
Will check out your Topic Now Gavin...
I do still think as RS said there is only so much Chest Busting and Snarling you can do before you have to try something new...
R.I.P Sox 01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017
"I do still think as RS said there is only so much Chest Busting and Snarling you can do before you have to try something new..."
I agree. Or at least give the fans a break. Finish the PREQUELS and THEN go back to the standard Alien movie. Sadly, the prequels broke this in Alien: Covenant. Still, it's not over till it's over.
Bigdave, its incredible how much better the Starbeast plot was. Think there is any chance in hell of elements of that returning? Great comment as usual.
I think Elements of the Starbeast Plot could be used...
To a degree a number of them had been carried over with Prometheus, the Temple Complex that held URNS the Murals/Frescos, the Altar and indeed the Trilobite does look a lot like the Chest Buster Stage in Starbeast as depicted in the Starbeast Mural Room Concept Art.
The mainly unused idea from Starbeast was that the Organism, was a Highly Intelligent/Sophisticated and Civilized Alien Race... This Race (its Remnants/Spores) was discovered by the Giant Alien Race who attempted to take some Spores to their Ship... in essence the Space Jockey had attempted to take the Eggs/Spores of this Alien Starbeast.
We have seen this element hinted at with Alien: Engineers as this Plot seemed to show us the Engineers had discovered a Cave with Spores and these Produced similar Organisms to the Starbeast... and its indicated the Engineers likely Experimented on these Octopoid Organisms to Create a Variety of Organisms related to and including the Xenomorph.
So i CANT see how we can use the Starbeast Idea of a Intelligent Alien Xenomorph... but they could show us the Xenomorph Origins/Black Goo came from some other ALIEN Species they had discovered that were actually quite Advanced compared to the Xenomorphs in the Franchise. This Starbeast could be what the Prometheus Fresco was showing? That could be explored for sure.
The other aspect from Starbeast was these Civilized Alien Organisms had used certain types of Organisms as Ritual Hosts to Procreate their Kind. NOW Hr Gigers concepts show the Derelict/Xenomorph share DNA and Atheistic in his Mural... This Mural indicates the Ships produce the Eggs and a Humanoid Space Suited Bald Headed Alien Race Ritually Sacrifice themselves to Procreate the Xenomorph.
So these Bald Humanoids (shown in HR Gigers Face Hugger Concepts, and the Prometheus Mural) are either a Slave Race encountered ans enslaved to Procreate the Xenomorph, or they are Created by another Alien Race to Procreate the Xenomorph. The other alternative is some kind of Symbiotic Relationship between the Bald Humanoids and the Derelict Ship/Xenomorph
In either case, we could explore another more ALIEN Race that is more HR Giger Aesthetic that discovered or created these Humanoids (Engineers) and used them for some purpose to Procreate something related to the Xenomorph...
We could then explore the Engineers Rebelling against this Purpose and Race, and then they eventually Re-Engineer this Races Technology to make their own Bio-Mechanical Ships etc....
We could even be shown the Engineers created Mankind to replace them as Sacrificial Hosts, or the beings who used the Engineers for this Purpose created Mankind to replace the Rebellious Engineers.
This could lead to us being shown the Engineers overthrown their Creators/Beings that Subjugated the Engineers and then proceeded to use Mankind and Subjugated us..
THIS ^^^ Whole Idea was how i was going to explore the Engineer Hierarchy in my Planned Prometheus 2/3 and it would have touched on the Creation/Rebellion Themes and the God Themes... particularly the Annunaki/Sumerian Mythos while also giving it a HR Giger Twist by using his ideas merged with those from the Lovecraftian Mythos
R.I.P Sox 01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017
Sorry, if Fox does not want to pay royalties to the Giger estate, we will have Giger free Alien movies as Covenant.
Bigdave, I find the intelligent but ferral alien species to be so original and fascinating. What you described above would have made for SUCH a better Alien series than the mindless crap the majority of the Alien movies are.
I cant really speak much for what amount of the HR Giger Aesthetic is/was owned/licensed to FOX i know every Alien Movie that uses the Xenomorph would Credit HR Giger for the Design, i cant speak for how long any License Agreement would have been for and IF/HOW MUCH HR Giger (and now his Estate) would have been paid to use the Designs. It has been reported that the Estate had a disagreement over the use of some of HR Gigers Designs/Intellectual Property. We dont know if FOX had chosen to tone down any Giger Aesthetics to avoid/reduce any Royalties paid to the HR Giger Estate but it appeared some disagreement or lack of a agreement was made.
We have heard that the Concept Artist were told to indeed go for that very HR Giger Feel/Aesthetic but then latter told to Avoid/Tone Down such a Aesthetic.
Does this mean we CAN/WILL-NOT see any Surreal HR Giger Bio-Mechanical Aesthetic in future?
I dont think this would be a major case, because i cant see any Bio-Mechanical Designs being exclusively OWNED by the Estate, i think it would be only if Designs are used that are TOO similar to any HR Giger Works that he has done....
I also think as FOX (now owned by Disney) owned the Alien Franchise, that the Xenomorph, Space Jockey and Derelict Atheistic and Designs would be something that the HR Giger Estate would NOT be able to REJECT so that we Can-not see them used again. I would think some Deal would have been made where anything from ALIEN can be used, but maybe there is a set Fee/% that would have to be paid to the HR Giger Estate....
Maybe the Xenomorph in Alien Covenant was toned down as far as to appear less Mechanical and the Juggernauts to appear less Organic as a way of avoiding or reducing the amount of money to be paid to the HR Giger Estate. But i cant be in any way sure how all this actually works.
But there have been other movies and designs/games and artwork that has a very much HR Giger feel to its Aesthetic that these designers DO-NOT have to pay up to the HR Giger Estate... But then maybe as these are not used in a ALIEN Franchise movie or game there is that get-around for it.
So i think we could see a Bio-Mechanical Atheistic in future without having to deal with the HR Giger Estate provided they go about the design in a very clever way to skip around actual identical designs used by HR Giger in any of his works.
I think it would be more Beneficial to enter a agreement with the Estate to use what ever ideas/designs HR Giger had made however... I think and HOPE we can get back to something more Bio-Mechanical.
The Big Question ignorantGuy is have we seen the last of the Bio-Mechanical Atheistic? i feel not if we are going to see Returning Engineer Ships and if the next movie or its sequel would eventually tie into ALIEN and the Bio-Mechanical Xenomorph and Derelict. If these are the things they intend to show then they would have to bring in the HR Giger Atheistic.. would that mean any kind of deal with the HR Giger Estate? who knows.. if it requires such then i would expect Disney/FOX to have to do so in order to connect us back to ALIEN
R.I.P Sox 01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017
I think now the Xenomorph has been reduced to a Bio-Weapon Creation by the hands of David the Android using the Engineers Biological Warfare (Black Goo) then along with our more Ancient Humanoid looking Engineers.... I do FEEL that they need to introduce us to something more ALIEN
There are Questions that remain regarding....
1) What happened on LV-223 what was the Purpose as far as the Fresco's and Murals and how they relate to the Black-Goo and Xenomorph.
2) When/where and how did the Engineers Bio-Mechanical Technology come about, was it their Creation, was they given it by another Race for some Purpose or was it Stolen/Re-Engineered by the Engineers.
I think exploring the Answers to these, but giving us something more ALIEN and fitting in tone with what the Space Jockey/Derelict and Egg Cargo showed us is the way to go FORWARDS.
And introducing a Sinister Agenda.... or a Intelligent yet far more Alien Species than the Engineers is the way to go too.
R.I.P Sox 01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017
I for one feel that Ridley and Fassbender would have to work hard to fuck up this next sequel. But this is coming from a fan who really loved Prometheus and Covenant. David is fantastic and I hope there is an explanation of how David is able to program Mother and future androids to follow his agenda. I am hoping that Scott finds a way to bring the "Queen" element in... otherwise, the whole new prologue to Covenant ALONG with David telling Daniels after she asks "what did you do to her [Elizabeth]?" - "Exactly what I'm going to do to you" is quite pointless. I also hypothesize that it will be (or in my mind at least should be) the Queen who finally takes down David, rather than the engineers. After all, David himself foreshadowed this in Prometheus when he told Shaw - "Doesn't everyone want their parents dead?"
I think the whole whining of how the Alien creatures in covenant deviated from the original in that they are "too fast" etc. is really stupid. I mean, I do get that the original Alien's magnificence is that it moved so human like BUT; number one: I'm sure if more CGI effects were around in those days Scott would have made the creature move faster (and let's not forgot just how fast it moves in the air duct scenes), secondly: yes the creature in covenant moves more like a cat but let's not forgot that David has not yet finished with his DNA mixing. Also the chest burst birth scene in covenant is quite brilliant in that they constructed a puppet with wires - connection here to how the original chest burst scene was set up. Again, if Scott had the materials and back up CGI he was able to use in 2017 I think this very well would have been his intended scene for the original. That being said, the original creature and it's exciting evolutionary/metamorphosis changes are near flawless so this could be left up for debate.
In closing, I am simply relieved the creatures in covenant did not move like damn velociraptors... ya know, like they did back in Alien Resurrection? While Cameron's Aliens was good I find that Prometheus and Covenant are much more relate able to the original (and as for the rest of the films, god love you Sigourney, were pretty damn terrible).
Indeed i am glad you understand the Philosophy/Themes at play ;)
Its quite easy to F-Up though because a lot of people are not interested in the route RS was taking.... It could make for a interesting movie, but just not a ALIENY movie as some fans may want... Blade Runner 2049 did not do well at the Box Office but its certainly a Good movie.
I had planned with my Prometheus 2 and 3 to indicate the AI/Company element a bit more.... it appears RS also had this vision too. Where the Company and mankind are mere Puppets to the Synthetics/AI without even knowing about it... AKA Matrix kind of Plot.
The whole.. "what did you do to her [Elizabeth]?" - "Exactly what I'm going to do to you" was ambiguous and could mean multiple things.... it could hint that David had feelings for Dr Shaw that was more than Platonic and he misinterpreted her kindness for Love... gets Rejected and then takes that Bad and Love turns to Hate for him.
But on the other hand it shows (applies to Davids latter Agenda with Daniels) that maybe he WILL use Daniels to be able to Create many more of his (Creations Xenomorph Eggs)
I dont think we would see a Literal Queen as in Daniels + Face Hugger = Egg Laying Xenomorph... but who knows.. i would assume he may use Daniels as in either her Reproductive Organs or Egg Cells to create more Xenomorphs... or Evolve her into as Hybrid that can Lay Eggs.
I had these ideas/interpretations after Alien Covenant came out, and months after we see some Concept works from Hallet/Hatton that depict very much the same ideas.
I think the Xenomorph getting out of control so David can-not control it and he becomes overthrown by it fits very much with the Hubris and Philosophical themes Prometheus and Alien Covenant was exploring.
My Planned Tale was kind of different... a tale where we would maybe feel for David, see him gain Love, see him make a Deal with the Devil and have them Screw David and cause him to loose his Love Interest and Birth the Bio-Mechanical Xenomorph... But David via Sacrifice gains Redemption... leading to the Space Jockey.
R.I.P Sox 01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017
Almost certainly the Queen in the David context will be the some form of Queen of Bathsheba. "The Bathsheba incident leads to a shift in the book's perspective; afterwards David "is largely at the mercy of events rather than directing them".He is no longer able to control his family, and ends up being overthrown by Absalom" wikipedia.com
This is as clear as the switcharoo was in Covenant. How can this be exciting and new? Can I root for a genocidal rapist megalomaniac @..-hole? I'm interested in seeing it, no.
That kind of depends if he talks about getting a new monster or he will replace it with androids. Getting new monsters can be alright, I liked the Neomorph and the Squid was OK. Maybe it could work without the Giger thing, I don't know. Replacing it will be difficult but I do not want another Bladerunner/AC where we will see androids as the enemy, screw that. His obsession with David tells me that there is a risk that it is the way that he might go and if so I am out of here unless they make better human characters. It depends on how you treat them, the Xeno was there for some seconds and then it got stuck in a crane, that was lame but if you get new monsters and use them sparingly and keep them in the dark it could work because then we can use our imagination but then we need characters to care for. Unfortunately they have failed with the characters this far (in general P and AC since we talk about the prequels).
Maybe they could try would be to make the Engineers scary as F, then they could replace the Xeno as the main threat. For that to work we need to know a bit why they are mad at humans but they should also not be totally obvious since there needs to be some mystery for it to work. The Xeno worked since we didn't know a lot about it so that should be how they write the Engineers also. Call it a silly idea if you want but I think that this could work if they write them really really well. Let's see how this will develop
The mural could be better used if there will be a next movie since they were just shown briefly in Prometheus. They could take that and develop it since I think that the basic idea is interesting. Unfortunately I can not support the idea that the ship made the eggs, it is an interesting idea to write about in a fairy-tale but it won't work in a movie at least not for me.
About effing things up, they already did enough damage the way it is with Alien Covenant. It is without a doubt one of the worst Alien movies this far.
Critters5: I would rather have that then both AC and Prometheus. The thing is that we need well done human characters and make them fit in somewhere in the story too.
IgnorantGuy: As far as David being overthrown by the Xeno yes it is kind of obvious, I am not interested in that. I do not care about the adventures of David because that is not why I watch alien movies. To me it has always been about well written human characters that get into situations that they are not well prepared for. F the androids and the themes if I can not care about the characters.
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